₦airaland Forum

ezeagu:
Where did you get that from?

Adekunle, Obasanjo, Ayo Banjo (Notable for the most successful Biafran offensive). Do you want other details?

Negro_Ntns:
Dede,
You have been told many times that what your people need is negotiation. You need the help of skilled negotiators who know how to break down barriers and achieve measurable and sustainable result that favor your interests. Bravado and threats will not get you anywhere. . .at least not where one of your rivals, the Yorubas, had history of breeding political states and empires.

Stop the aggression and insult for God's sake and use tact to subdue your opponent. Please do that!

Thank you for that; there are so many warriors on the net pounding their chest fogetting that war is not fought on the net but on land and you would think that those who had a first-hand taste of war would be the ones most likely to abhor it.

Yoruba people have always been diplomatic but I guess some people think that diplomacy is the same as cowardice. I live them to that conclusion. I have pointed out at least on one occassion that the Yorubas were not the aggreesors in the events of the 1960s; they tried to stay neutral. But if we have to fight, then we will fight. Despite smaller than officers than the other major tribes, the most skilled and strategic officers in the war were yoruba. This is a fact.

In my experience, Nigerians generally do not have problems with their sons marrying from other tribes; the problem is more with their daughters marrying into other tribes because of stereotypes (both real and unreal), and ignorance. No one wants their daughter to suffer elsewhere because our cultures always dictate that wives should be subservient to their husbands. If my daughter or sister is mistreated by her husband and we are from the same tribe, it is easier to resolve than if we are from different tribes. You have to understand this very well.

Also, perhaps you have been exhibiting certain behaviours which are easily associated with your tribe which your girlfriend's family do not like. This is a very sensitive issue. The best way to approach this predicament, is to show the family that you intend to take care of their daughter and that you would be prepared to lay down your life in protecting her at all times; you must mean it when you say it and you must also demonstrate your love for her. I say this because there are many men who marry from other tribes and are too weak to protect their wives from wicked in-laws.

beefy23:
Granted that the Europeans did their bit to destabilize Africa etc but they're long gone now. They're not the ones currently blatantly looting the treasury.

To rub salt into the wound, we like to say we teach our people morals, respect for their elders etc yet it's these same people that develop an urge to scoop up public money as though there's no tomorrow. Some of these people have even been privileged to spend time studying/working abroad so that they have had exposure to see how things can be done BUT for some reason it does not register with them.

Beafy we are saying the same thing; I am just exploring other avenues so as to come up with a credible answer. You will notice that all three paragraphs are connected.

There is a passage in the Bible about the man who built his house on sand.
That is the case with africa. When the colonialists left most countries in Africa, they usually left their puppets in power so that they could continue to influence policies in these countries. In some cases, outside intervention came from powerful nations who were not initially colonialists. For instance, CIA involvement in Zaire, the death of Lumumba, and the rise of Mobutu. To think that the country that started the mess was Belgium, one tiny European nation. It is the same all over Africa, French and British governments would seek out some Army General and encourage him to take over if the puppets stopped dancing to their tunes. This was why the 1960s were rife coups all over Africa.

Now there is another school of thought that agrees with the above but maintain that Africa has had enough time to correct these issues. This may be true but it still ignores the fact that African countries went without good governance for years and this resulted in Africans developing a survival of the fittest mentality. Some argue that leaders are not born but made. The west have had many years of building structures that develop leaders. Such structures are not evident in Nigeria and this is why Africans seem to progress and develop well outside Africa. It is the same problem in SA. The black people there spent many years fighting for freedom but did not have the foresight to prepare for power; hence the situation in SA.

Another argument can be traced to a narrow and myopic mindset. The European nations are powerful because at different times in history, they fought many wars and conqured each other several times. They were not satisfied with being kings of tiny countries or communities. There are many European examples, the unification of Britain under the Vikings, the invasion of England by William the Conqueror, Napoleon, the Romans, etc If you look at Africa, there are not many examples, the most popular being the moore's conquests of southern Europe from the 10th century and perhaps more closer to home, the Oyo empire that stretched to Togo. But the underlying fact is that we had too many small kingdoms and rulers. Europeans had to become innovative so as to either conquer or to repel conquest. They imported gun powder from China and made guns, made cannons etc. Our leaders in the middle ages were content on being the kings of small communities of people. Because of this cosy arrangement, we were under-developed. If Southern Nigeria had one united king and army, it would have been difficult for the British to colonise us. Instead, they executed their strategy of defeating each tribe, village, etc one at a time. They did not have to engage us all at the same time.

This is the same myopic which our leaders still have today. They think of enriching their pockets rather than sizing the opportunity to write their names in history. While they continue to steal and loot, we wait as mugus for a saviour.

ceah:
@Gbawe, DuduKnights and Benny,

@Gbawe, DuduKnights, I hardly reply to post on NL though i cant do without NL daily but i decided to reply to this post cos i have noticed @Gbawe and @DuduKnights are very intelligent and constructive people.I just want you guys to keep it up. I am proud of the two of you. If Seun thinks about NL award for Constructive and Unbiased Post on NL then i would have voted for you guys. As for @Benny, i think @Duduknights should understand something i noticed abouth this ghanian, There is a difference between hate and truth, I have noted hatred in all @Benny post on NL, so @Gbawe might not be wrong afterall.

@Benny, the fact is that no one can send you out of NL but you need to change your Mindset, Attitude and most of all your Mentality. Stop Hating, continue to be proactive and try not to generalise when really the statistics is there for all to see. That one egg is bad does not make the rest in the crate bad.

God Bless you all,

Thank you for your kind words; God Bless you too.

agor1974:
no matter how u anaylis the issue of igbos of delta they still remain igbos period.and as nigeria is right now no tribe in nigeria can point a finger or compare themself with the igbos in nigeria, in terms of self development.exacpt the corrupt yorubas who are actually using the northerners to hijack the resource in the niger delta.

I do not get it, why do grown men (i am assuming) get on the net and start throwing insults?
Why do SOME igbo people always come on here and insult Yoruba people?
Why do people in glass houses throw stones? Is it because they are foolish enough to think that other people do not have stones to throw?
Why do some Igbo people always think they are the best tribe in Nigeria?

vangogh:
Very profound, it's a food for thought for all regardless of where you stand on this subject.
There is no fear mongering in this article, if anything, the writer did not capture all possible scenarios that
are likely to play out.
For example, he did not touch the issue of refugees -the resulting stateless people that are
likely to arise from the break-up. What do you do with them?

There are several minorities in each geographical region, fitting them into a larger composite will always be a challenge.
We can theorize about each minority group, slice and dice them, or even carve them as depicted in several maps by some posters here, truth is; when swords are
drawn, alliances would be formed and foes identified.
True federation is the only solution for now until such a time that the rights of minorities are respected and protected by the
larger ethnic groups.
Any thing other than true federation is a sure call for what the writer enunciated in his article.

@Dede1,
You certainly do not understand Yoruba people. You seem to have some of kind of hatred for Yoruba people judging from
your posts.
Real strength lies in diplomacy and knowing when to pick up the sword. If you think Yoruba people do not want out or are the "weak-link," think again.
I'll submit to you that in 1993, the Yoruba wanted out and but were pacified by the installation of Sonekan, still the fight continued
until 1999 when the North acquiesced to our demands. Learn the power of diplomacy and you'll surmount a lot. My 2 cents.

I concur with you

sshalom:
Nice article but still a bit insulting!

My sentiments exactly

Gbawe:
[b]I am sorry and I did not mean it like that but you must understand my frustration. [/b]Deregulation simply involves processes that will ensure we refine our oil and gain maximum profit and developmental benefit from it rather than the situation where our oil is refined abroad sold back to us at exorbitant prices with the Nigerian Government having to subsidise the cost of petrol so that the Nigerian people are not incensed about paying Western rates for a product that is their greatest endownment !!!! You can imagine the waste, corruption , bunkering , piracy,  lack of productivity  and innefficiency that exist with the current system !!!!

Deregulation is therefore a very good and important thing that will be pivotal in our history if handled correctly. It could revolutionise our oil sector for the better. It is then , IMO , only a self-hating Nigerian or a non-Nigerian pretending to be a Nigerian that would prefer to keep adducing that deregulation is what it is not when they have recieved a chance to see that deregulation is as laudable and as unavoidable as electoral reforms !!!! I accept you did not read the article but please do so in future because a failure to do that only leads to people concluding that you have taken sides already and you will not be swayed by even the most pure and reasonable logic.

My brother, it is ok. At the end of the day, it is obvious that we want the same thing. I understand your frustation because I equally get frustrated about the lack of development in our country and the visionless and corrupt leaders we have. You will observe that I agreed with most of posts; but even then, we can from time to time disagree on issues. I am a proponent of putting ones house in order.

For years, I used to speak to people about drastic change in Nigeria but I noticed that people were not always ready to do anything about it. They would complain but would carry on their normal business. So I got tired and just accepted it. But everywhere I go in the world, I get the same message, we must be responsible for our own destiny, only Nigerians can effect change in their country. I am waiting for the day that many people will come to that realisation. Hopefully, I would be alive to be a change agent.

I know you got frustrated by Bennyboys post but I must tell you, he has a few valid points.

Gbawe:
Did you read the article to actually understand what deregulation entails here or are you simply argueing according to a preconcieved stance you feel duty bound to defend ? You are simply showing a consistent evasion of what is written to still proclaim as right what you got wrong previously !! You did not understand deregulation and you still dont or intentionally, because of lack of objectivity , do not want to understand it - even when I tried to provide a neutral article detailing what deregulation of the downstream sector in Nigeria means!!!! Once again I ask did you even bother to read the article? If not then do so .because deregulation is certainly not "the deregulation of[b] imported petroleum [/b] products" as you write.

When you don't even attempt to understand what deregulation entail in this case I can only conclude that you will see only what you want to see.

What you wrote below show that you do not have a grasp of Nigerian issues. Wether it is because you are not actually Nigerian is open to conjecture:

The way you then continue to argue an erroneous point when you have had the chance to correct your misconception is proof that you are not interested in objective discussion via the genuine inspection of what others write.

I will be honest, I have not read the article. Its because I am at work and I just barely have time to follow the thread. For your information, I am a Nigerian and I try to follow issues in Nigeria as best as I can. With regards to deregulation, I did not speak with any authority and that was why I was asking questions. I wasn't making statements. Still there was no need for an implicit 'talking down' from you; you did not need to get exasperated.

Gbawe:
Sir/Madam please try and understand Nigeria's unique problem that other nations do not face. Of course we have leaders with "vision and innovation" . Nigerians who understand Nigeria will know that leaders with vision are not given the chance to lead by a cabal that wants to keep Nigeria's wealth for themselves !!!! That is what we are fighting!!!! The success of Nigerians everywhere indicate our "vision and innovaton" !!!! It is wrong to speak as if Nigeria is woeful because it does not have visionary leadership when the truth is that a system of self-perpetuation of mediocrity exists to aid a "business as usual" scenario. Nigerians , unlike non-Nigerians,  know that Yar Adua is possibly the worst President we could have gained. He was put there to secure the continued selfsh interest of those who wish to keep Nigeria underdeveloped so that they and their children can keep amassing fortunes they cannot spend in ten lifetimes !!!!!

Please read up about the various cabals making money from oil bunkering , piracy, subsidy fraud to understand why our Oil sector , even as it was always the right thing to do , has not been deregulated till now. Too much info to dissipate but google is our friend so please use it to understand the real situation more .

In regards to your enquiry about deregulation please read the link below:

http://allafrica.com/stories/200910190644.html

Deregulation implies that the government either state or federal would not be involved in the business of petroleum products supply, marketing and distribution, as well as refining. It means that the private sector would have the sole responsibility of deciding how much Nigerians would buy a liter of petrol, just as it is with Dual Purpose Kerosene (DPK) and Automotive Gas Oil (AGO), where the price fluctuates based on the decision of the importers of the products. The importers have argued that they can not afford to sell the products at prices lower than their import costs.

That is precisely the point I am making. Nigeria is an Oil producing nation; previously number one in Africa, now behind Angola. Is it not a sad paradox that we are talking about the deregulation of imported petroleum products? We are not debating about cars, gold, mechanical equipment here, we are talking about what we produce in raw form and then being subject to international market forces when we import it. This is Nigeria, not Togo or Ethipia (No aspersions intended)

Bennyboy11:
It is impossible for a rational person to disagree with you, it just is.

The fact of the matter is that individuals and corporations with abundant capital can invest in other foreign markets but without a sustainable strategy they may suffer in the future. We see it all the time. With the rise of chinese firms and also the global effects of the current economic downturn, many governments are going to put up protectionist structures so as to protect investors and workers in their countries from mistakes in other countries.

Without substantial investment in one's country, one is at the mercy of future governments. Your friends who are capitalist may be in power today but what happens when government changes and the far left are voted in? Your company may be kicked out. Afterall, Obasanjo kicked out British Petroleum in the late 70s. The same may happen to Nigerian entities springing up in Africa. As we all know, stability is still a problem in Africa and investing in other parts of Africa may just be a very risky strategy.

That brings me back to the point that Bennyboy was making initially. There is still room for growth in Nigeria. Would it not make sense to develop the infrastructure in Nigeria first and then sustainable growth can follow? What happens if you invest in a country and that country is plunged into civil war; your investment goes down the drain. We have to put our house in order first because if you are chased from outside, at least you have your home to fall back on.

Gbawe:
My friend, I don't deal in half truths. You do with how you never understand fully what you are talking about. On previous threads I have shown that you love commenting about Nigeria when you don't understand its 'unique' and self-inflicted problems that could be resolved fairly easily with genuine political will. Here you are showing the same ignorance of the real state of affairs in Nigeria vis a vis cause and effects.

Minus Government interference, Nigerian private entities do well and distinguish themselves amongst their continental peers. Nigerian private entities also demonstrate the will to innovate not entirely common accross Africa. Infrastructure , education , public services for example, are woeful because of inept leadership at the Federal Government level. Inept leadership is secured and perpetuated because of the lack of electoral fairness i.e Nigerians do not get the chance to elect proven leaders who will facilitate the development and progress we can secure rapidly with our manpower and material endowment. The skills of leadership and enterpreneurship still resides in Nigerians regardless of the ineptitude that ensures those qualities are not harmonised to produce national greatness.

You simply don't know as much as you should on Nigeria and I don't think I have enough time to become a teacher to anyone. Non-Nigerians incessantly taunt Nigeria with how w produce oil yet import petrol but do you know that that situation is about to change with how Nigeria is about to deregulate its petroleum sector completely to facilite efficiency and profitability with how the removal of government subsidy  plus the involvement of private , and thus profit-led , players will make Nigeria exponentially greater profit as per how the sale of refined products (when importation used to be the case) will increase immensely. We will simply be refining efficiently what we produce. Is this Rocket Science? Should it not have been done ages ago? Long story short things are not done when they should be because of vested interest. It was the same fo Ghana. Now that things are being done correctly Ghana is moving in the right direction. When our leaders begin to do things properly Nigeians , becuase of the inherent industrious spirit they possess , will secure growth exponentially greater than others have secured in simiar time frame. That is what I hint at when I point that Nigerians trading well outside our border is something to praise .

I disagree with some of your points. Leadership comes from within and for all the entrepreneurial spirit shown by some people, it doesn't count for much without vision and innovation.

Are the refineries in Nigeria in productive capacity? Is Nigeria not still importing petroleum products? I can not be sure because I do not reside in Nigeria. If what I am inferring is correct, how can deregulation work? Are you talking about deregulation with regards to imported products?

ezeagu:
You will keep repeating the popular opinion until you lose the ability to think at all. Where does the leadership come from, is it not the population? Is it not also the population along with the environment that creates leadership and keeps tabs on them. Keep waiting for the Nigerian Obama (what has Obama done in the first place?). Your waiting for good leadership okwa ya? Keep waiting for hell to produce an Angel.

Some people would rather take the safe road and follow what they heard most people say than sitting down and thinking for themselves. That is why you go around and insult Yoruba and Hausa people and then have the nerve to come and preach "One Nigeria" to us. Confusion because your thoughts are not your own.

Thank you for the above phrase; a lot of people do not get that. Leadership comes from within and a people get the leaders they deserve. Everyone expects change to come from the people at the top when it is the people at the bottom who should influence change.

Bennyboy11:
As much as you sometimes have a point you indulge in too many half truths, taking things out of context and misrepresentations. You are always picking inapplicable examples to back your invalid points.

Charity begins at home. If you don’t believe me read up on the importance of indigenisation in economics and also assess highly respected Michael Porter’s diamond theory. I hate to sound academic but you leave me no choice.

Can’t you see that America’s expansion was fundamentally different? Talking about burger king and Mcdonalds remember all these are not just symbols of America expanding but more importantly the success of corporate America in America. When did India become a force to reckon with? Indians have been far more aggressive business wise than Nigerians have ever been for decades but they only became a force a few years ago when its Government took full advantage of outsourcing and also developed the right IT strategy. Until then India was a hell hole that had some innovative individuals plain and simple. Progress begins at home. Quite simply taxation, restrictions on repatriation of profits, having to employ from the host country and even ownership laws makes expansion inappropriate as the main tool for nation building    

Patting yourself on the back because action was taken to compete with DSTV, which is an isolated story as usual. What action was taken when the lack of basic infrastructure led to investments leaving to “lesser” nations? Or when education which is the back bone of development deteriorated and Nigerians had to go to Neighbouring countries for education? The answer Nothing, but these are the issues that matter.  

The article which is patronising by the way, at best is stating a fact that we have known for ever, that Nigerians are intelligent. But so what if that was all that was needed Russia would be the greatest country.

A country that is more than capable of being a Malaysia or at least an India celebrating and calling others jealous because they end up on a list with Somalia a close second.

I hate to agree with you but I have to. I also agree with some of the points that Gbawe is making. However, it is difficult to make much progress abroad without first putting your house in other. In the 80s when globalidation started to take form, General Electric under Welch did not delve into the global market. Welch's reasoning was that he had to put his house in order in order to be able to pursue opportunities in the global market. So what did he do, he restructured GE first and then made it lean and agile so as to be able to compete with Japanese and European firms.

While it is through that some progress is being made by some Nigerians, it is progress that is still being impeded by a lack of a strong united front and infrastructure in Nigeria. Further progress will come from a substantial reduction in fraudulent practises, investment in durable infrastructure, changing of internal mindsets, and stable democracy

ezeagu:
You people will keep arguing and breaking your heads against the wall until you realise Nigeria's problem is about national unity, which is lacking in Nigeria because Nigeria is not a nation. Most Nigerians have comma in their identity, Nigerian igbo where as every other successful indigenous country in the world don't have this because it is a threat to the populations loyalty to a state, not to talk of the fact that they don't need this dual identity because their state is the same as their nation. Keep arguing and lamenting over everything until you guys get it. [size=18pt]This country was created by some bored rich white men.[/size]

You are correct, until we become united, our rate of progress will be limited severely.

Omo_Alex:
Do normal human beings sit and smile while you are hacked and mobbed to death, set alight with a tire around your neck, have your shops looted, have your women violated and killed,  all of this while doing nothing to deserve such babarities  

The author was simply reiterating the fact that Nigerian's will fight to protect themselves and their interests regardless of where they are in the world without fear of anybody. This trait is very scarce anywhere else on the continent

I do not disagree with you are saying, however, did the law-abiding Nigerians have AK47s at home? I am not too familiar with the situation in South Africa. If hostility had been brewing for a while and the Nigerians armed themselves in anticipation of a xenophobic attack, then it is difficult to fault that strategy.

While law-abiding citizens may have arms, they are unlikely to carry AK47 which is usually used by the military or criminals. The Nigerians might have had legitimate guns but the writer mentions AK47s. That is what I taking issues with.

Africa: Nigeria wants to share millions of dollars with you, and it’s no con (opinion)


Nairobi (Kenya) - East Africa offers a vantage point for observing one of the great surprises of the continent: Nigeria, till now famous for its conmen, is becoming an African and world economic superpower right under our eyes.

By The East African (Kenya), by Charles Onyango-Abbo* | 03.30.2009

Although it is stuck with the reputation of being the base of the world’s leading Internet scammers and cheque forgers, and home to one of the world’s most corrupt politicians and bureaucrats, Nigeria has done something no other country has managed since the colonial era. It has studied sin and learnt from it how to be competitive.

Nigerian companies are busy snapping up insurance businesses in East Africa, are into banking, and most notably, in Kenya recently, Nigeria’s Silverbird acquired Nu Metro. Formerly a South African franchise, Nu Metro is East Africa’s most prestigious entertainment company. Outside the continent, especially in Europe and North America, Nigerian companies advertise more on TV than those from any other African country.

We didn’t see the Nigerians coming, because of the popular prejudice that every one them is either a former or current military dictator, a tycoon who has stolen oil money, or a fraudster. Therefore, we didn’t take them seriously.

So Nigerians could end up owning most of Africa, and we might be beating and burning them as the South Africans did with the African immigrants last year.

While some Nigerians are hustlers and can be loud and in your face, underlying that is a self-confidence rare in Africa, and an abundance of traits necessary for success. When South African criminal gangs were roasting immigrants over bonfires, the only group that did something about it was the Nigerians.

Near Witwatersrand University, as the mobs approached a residential area populated by Nigerians, the West Africans didn’t hide or run. T[b]hey emerged with AK47s[/b] and told the South Africans that they had every right to be in South Africa, because they fed, housed, educated and gave critical diplomatic support to the ANC and other anti-apartheid groups during their struggle. The South African mobs fled.

In a world where Asian and Western businessmen bribe African officials and politicians left, right and centre, only the Nigerians who know how to hustle on the international stage can match them. In this way, they have been able to keep a slice of the African cake at home.

Fortune has also handed Nigeria a good hand. With a population of between 120 million and 140 million, there are more Nigerians than East Africans.
That is frequently seen as a source of instability, because there are too many poor, hungry and angry Nigerian mouths.

With its horrid cities, especially Lagos, no regular businessman who isn’t half crazy would want to set up shop there, right? Wrong.

Lagos is one of the toughest training grounds on planet Earth. If you can survive Lagos as a businessperson, there is no city in the world you can’t conquer. Small wonder, then, that the Nigerians are the most dominant group of Africans outside the continent — with the dogged Somalis hot on their heels.

Also, 140 million people can be a boon. A Kenyan, Tanzanian, or Ugandan politician who steals $10 million will most likely buy stocks on the exchange, purchase a local mansion, a flat in London, send the kids to a British university, and take a new mistress.

A [b]Nigerian governor who steals that amount of oil money, can invest it in toothpicks or mobile phones, and by the end of two trading cycles he has sold so many, his $10 million has multiplied into $30 million. He gets on a Kenya Airways plane, lands in an East African capital, and he is the richest man in town. [/b]Warts and all, our Nigerian brothers and sisters are the stuff of champions.

* Charles Onyango-Obbo is Nation Media Group’s managing editor for convergence and new products.


I do not think we should be proud of this article because either the writer is in fact a criminal or is in fact mocking Nigerians. The writer in several instances insidously or foolishly insinuates that the Nigerians investing other parts of Africa are corrupt officials.

Also, the writer makes reference to Nigerians in South Africa defending themselves with AK47s. Do law abiding citizens own AK47s? Whilst I agree that Nigerians are making headway in Africa, I do not think that was the point this writer was trying to make.

I do not think its about white women and black women; rather its about cultural differences. For instance, a caucasian woman in the US and UK is different from a caucasian woman from Eastern Europe. The same goes for black women; you will find that black women in the US are more liberated than black women in sub-saharan Africa. So black women and white women in the US are likely to have the same attitudes while black and white women in Portugal are likely to have the same attitude as well. But the attitude's of both sets (Portugal and US) are likely to be different.

Regardless of location, cultural consequences of cheating or the lack of, will determine the extent to which a woman will display unfaithfulness. So like a previous poster said, an arab woman may cheat but she dare not be cut while a western lady may not care so much.

chidipupay:
I suggest you tell your friend to move on. cos the guy will do it again and again and again. Most guys feels that hitting women is the best treatment for them. So if your friend,love her face and body, she should quit now

What kind of guys do you know?

Dede1:
@Duduknight


You are yet to learn the intrigues involved in correspondence. Whenever you are using someone’s work in essay, you must try to give credit to the originator of such idea even if the originator is credible or not.

I have remained one of the critics of Nowa Omogiue methods in presenting facts because a blind man could see whose interest the esteem writer seemed to serve. By the same token, I had also praised the job Nowa did while providing the window of opportunity to many people to understand the era of pre and post 1966 saga in the colonial contraption known as Nigeria.

The civil war has been fought and won. The skewing of the history of Nigeria in order to justified misguided steps by those who would have ordinarily work with Ndigbo for the betterment of the cesspit called Nigeria is naive politically.

Brigadier B. Ogundipe showed a classic unprofessional demeanor that was unbecoming of a soldier during the July 29, 1966 countercoup. It is not for me to judge what informed his decision to run but it was certainly not about Yoruba lacking in the number of soldiers in Nigeria army. Believe me, other than eastern region of Nigeria and Ndigbo in particular, western region of Nigeria had the best group of army officers in Nigerian army of 1966.

In less than six month of Brig. Ogundipe’s scampering to Dahomey, the Yoruba officers and NCOs constituted the main bulk of not only 2nd Division of Nigerian army but owned the 3rd Marine Commando Division of Nigerian army. If Lt. Col. F Fajuiyi was not purposefully eliminated by the perpetrators of July 29, 1966 coup, there would have been no place for most of the political shenanigans spreading all over the cesspit called Nigeria today.

You do not know me, yet you are bent on portraying me in bad light. Did I quote Nowa word for word or did I lift a section of a literature written by him. I merely gave an account based on various eye witness accounts. You are free to discount Nowa's or anyone else's account but this is just a forum for sharing ideas. I do not have to give a bibliography for everything I say here. Afterall, most of us were either not around or too young to know what really happened. So we are reliant on other people's account.

While there were Yoruba officers in the armed forces during that era, they were still outnumbered by South-Eastern and Northern officers. For NCOs, they were completely outnumbered. One of the conditions Ojukwu gave Gowon in the weeks leading to the war was that, Northern units should be moved out of Lagos and that a recruitment exercise should be carried out to recruit Yoruba personnel to occupy positions vacated by re-assigned Northern units.

How did you come to the conclusion that Ndigbo had the best officers in the Army? Were there no Ndigbo officers in the Biafran Army? You are going to tell me now that they lost not because they were not the best but for other reasons. I do not know or care about which tribe had the best officers because they were all supposed to serve the Nigerian entity.

You continue to hammer on about Ogundipe running away like a coward but at least he did not lead his people into war only to run away when defeat stared him in the face. Who is the real coward here? Ogundipe or Ojukwu? You are wont to believe what you want about Ogundipe and I choose to believe the version that because of the incidents of January and July 1966, it was impossible for him to lead the Army and the country as a whole. This is where we disagree. But we all know that Ojukwu RAN and abandoned his people, leaving Effiong to handover to Obasanjo. Could he not fight to the end like a soldier or accept defeat and surrender himself? Afterall, he was a soldier.

I leave it to others to judge who the real COWARD is here because we will not agree on this.

I apologise to anyone who may be offended by this digression from the main topic.

ndu_chucks:
maxsiollun, thank you sir for the information above.

de problem wey i get be say, i no find de recordings or transcripts of de closed door meetings wey mobolaji johnson talked about in his recent interview. i really would like to see those transcripts, so if you know where dem dey, book or web site, i go appreciate de information.

de tings wey dey undisputed be say, aburi agreement was entered into, federal government reneged on de agreement, and we don fight civil war since then.

as a world renowned historian, how you tink say we fit, as a country, escape from the conundrum of post civil war failure? personally i no tink say seccession go work, dat go just lead to another war wey go dey more deadly than the first one.

de ting wey i no dey hear from people be postulations or suggestions as to, how we fit take our country to the next level. what are your thoughts on this issue?

You hit the nail on the head there. I generally do not post on this forum but I have posted a lot on this thread and I think that this may be my last in the politics section. The reason why I posted in the first place was because I noticed a lot of posters talking about secession, beating war drums, and attacking other tribes for problems in their region when we are faced with the same problems and issues. I made the point initially but it was ignored for whatever reasons.

The fact is that:
Yoruba political leaders have failed their constituents, Igbo leaders have failed their constituents, and the same is true of every other tribe. Why are we talking about issues that happened a long time ago when we are being failed by our local government councillors, Chairmen, Governors, House members and Senators.

When we have examined the issues at a societal level, then we have to examine ourselves as individuals. Many of the actors in the 60s and 70s are dead but the situation is not getting better even with a different set of actors. That leads to the conclusion that I have held for a long time: Nigerians are to blame for the problems in Nigeria and not leaders because leaders are selected from Nigerians. Breaking Nigeria up will not solve anything because leaders will not suddenly stop being corrupt, become altruistic and develop vision.

Quote from: maxsiollun on October 16, 2009, 12:41 PM
Guys just a few points:

1) Lt-Col Arthur Unegbe was an Igbo officer from Ozubulu in Anambra State. He was murdered by the Jan 1966 coup plotters. This has nothing to do with him refusing to hand over any weapons. At the time of the coup he was the Quartermaster-General of the army and thus did not have control of any weapons stores.

2) Lt-Col Katsina was not in charge of the 1st Recce Squadron when it was used to suppress the Tiv riots. Major Anuforo was in charge of the 1st Recce Squadron at the time and his anger at being ordered to shoot Tiv protesters was one factor that pushed him to take part in the coup.

3) Lt-Col Katsina actually risked his life to save Igbos during the bloody pogroms of 1966. He personally confronted some of the murderous mobs in order to stop them from killing Igbos.



Major Chris Anuforo was commander of Recce Squadron Jos. The premier of northern region of Nigeria requested that both army and police deal ruthlessly with the rioters, mainly Tiv, who were the supporters of the UMBC. Instead, Major Chris Anuforo ordered the soldiers and police to arrest the supporters of NPC and release all the Tiv rioters arrested.

The premier felt shunned by the young Major and sought the help of the 1st Brigade commander, Brigadier Samuel Ademulegun, to transfer Major Chris Anuforo out of 1st Recce Squadron to 2nd Recce Squadron, Abeokuta then Army HQ, Lagos. In place of Major Anuforo was Major Katsina as commander of 1st Recce Squadron that saw the massacre of Tiv people during riot of 1964.

The link below would corroborate that Major Hassan Katsina was the commander of 1st Recce Squadron, Jos, even though the article indicated Kaduna.

http://www.dawodu.com/katsina1.htm

"Initially a platoon commander in the 2nd Battalion, he was later reposted to the demonstration platoon at the NMTC in Kaduna, as commander. " In 1961, he served in the Congo as an Intelligence officer. The following year, in 1962, he underwent further advanced infantry training in the United States after which he became company commander in the 5th Battalion of the Nigerian Army in Kano. When the Recce unit of the Army was created, Hassan was among the earliest Nigerians to be trained in Britain on the use of "Ferrets" in armored reconnaissance warfare, the others being Majors Christian Anuforo and John Obienu. As of the night of January 14/15 1966, Hassan was commanding the 1 Recce Squadron in Kaduna, while Obienu was commanding the 2 Recce squadron in Abeokuta, and Anuforo was the staff officer representing Recce interests at the Army HQ in Lagos.”


Is this not hypocrisy on your part Dede? You criticised me for using arguments that are shared and were recorded by Nowa because you wanted to prove at all cost that Ogundipe was a coward yet you quote Nowa here to corroborate an account that supports an assertion made by you. You claimed on this thread that Nowa is not a credible historian; if he isn't, why are you quoting his literature?

The North felt that they should not sit down and watch the development like that. The cream of the elite of their officers was killed. Yoruba lost Shodeinde and Ademulegun, who were killed. So, it was in retaliation that the people carried out the second round of the coup. Before the second coup there was a rumour about it. There was so much distrust. You don’t know who was who. It was in that atmosphere that the second coup happened. That was what brought Gowon to power. He was the only senior northern army officer available. Martins Adamu and Danjuma said he was the only one they could take orders from. So, they struck.

There is the story that one Brigadier Ogundipe was next in rank to Ironsi and Ojukwu insisted he should be the next head of state after Ironsi, but that he ran away.
Well, he did not run away. That man sacrificed his career for the unity of Nigeria. He sacrificed his rank and status for peace in this country. I say this because I was present that day at Obalende police headquarters when Ogundipe opened the window and asked us to look outside. He told us to look at the killings going on, saying that it must stop. He talked to a few of us because the boys were at Ikeja cantonment. We were just talking by telephone. Ojukwu was talking from the East, saying that he (Ogundipe) shouldn’t allow it and that by status he should be the next head of state since they could not find Ironsi. Ogundipe said they must stop the killing and that there must be peace in the country. He said if he were going to be an impediment to peace, he would leave the country. He said he would sacrifice his career and leave the country, so that there would be peace. He said if that was the sacrifice he had to make, he would. He didn’t run away.

So, it is true Ojukwu insisted he should be the next head of state?
Ojukwu said that he should be the next head of state if Ironsi was not found. He was sitting down there in the East not knowing what was going on in Lagos. Ogundipe said that he had to sacrifice his career and Ojukwu was saying that he should be head of state and not Gowon. Ojukwu and Gowon were of the same rank. So, Ojukwu said it shouldn’t be anybody from the North. But the northern boys, who staged the counter coup, said that is the only man they could take orders from was Gowon. That was it.


Thanks for posting this. When I gave an opinion based on various sources that Ogundipe did not run, I was attacked by certain posters, Dede in particular, because he was bent on proving that Ogundipe was a coward and the Yoruba people are generally cowards. Some people just have selected vision and reasoning; an argument can only be credible to them if it is shared by them.

Dede1:
Why should any Igbo person waste time rebutting Nowa Omoguie’s conjectural crap? I must tell you that few rebuttals forwarded by Ndigbo to Nowa Omogiue’s conjectural rubbish had led to massive editing efforts on the part of Nowa.

Nowa Omogiue was one of loudest exponents of the falsehood perpetrated by western region of Nigerian government publication of 1967 that blatantly lied about Lt. Col. F. Fajuyi opting to die with Ironsi.

It was the same Nowa Omogiue that set the ball rolling on the ground that Nigeria had only five graduates in the Nigerian Armed Forces by 1966.

No less a person than Nowa Omogiue that claimed that a Biafran army unit that massacred innocent citizen at a rubber plantation in mid-west region. When he was taken to the task to furnish the name of the Biafran army unit and commander of the unit the committed the atrocity, Nowa Omogiue, just as you, fell like a park of cards.

I should give Nowa Omogiue full credit for creating a lazy disciple such as you. Nowa failed in his evil machination to inform you that Nigerian constitution in 1966 does not have provision for executing coup plotters and definitely not for a position of Deputy Prime Minister.

Are you able to have a debate without insults? Have I insulted you. I only put forward my account of how events occurred in the past based on various publications. I am not a LAZY DISCIPLE of Nowa. I have read his literature as I have read other literature about events leading up to the civil war and the civil war in itself. I have also read "why we struck" by Ademoyega, one of the coup plotters of january 66 and under my command by Obasanjo.

It is possible that writers may from time to time embelish but that is why those who are able to correct them should do so. The 'facts' I have mentioned is based on different accounts and not just one.

Now you made mention of certain incidents in your last paragraph; I do not know why you did because they certainly are not relevant to anything I might have said.

Afam:
Credible historian you say? And you went ahead to list corroborators from a particular ethnic group? Wonderful. Nice try. Next?

1. Is Nowa yoruba? No
2. The information is there, why has it not been debunked by Igbo historians? Is Ojukwu not alive?
3. You can prove or debunk publicly available information (Books written by principal actors). You can not debunk accounts put forward by others if you do not write and publish your own accounts.

Dede1:
@KnowAll

Reading some stuffs from you and your fellow tick scull colleagues on this forum exposes the reasons Nigeria is a cesspit. Please be informed that northern region premier, Ahmadu Bello, was never in the chain of command of Nigeria army. As a regional premier, he might have the power to influence the military commander’s decision as in the case of Brigadier Samuel Ademulogum’s transfer of Major Chris Anuforo from Jos Recce Squadron to Army HQ, Lagos. The premier has absolutely no power to issue direct orders to military commands.

There was never a time in history of Nigeria that Prime Minister Tafawa Balewa was addressed as Command-in-Chief of Armed Forces. The only persons ever addressed as such were either the Presidents or Heads of State.


@Duduknigth

There was never a time Ogundipe send any military unit to quell the mutiny in July 29, 1966. If Ogundipe had sent a unit, I would appreciate it if you could furnish the strength of the military unit dispatched by Ogundipe, thus, platoon, company or battalion. In addition, I would also like to know the names and the ranks of the officers commanding these counter-mutiny units sent by Brigadier Ogundipe. The only order issued by Ogundipe was to a Sergeant to gather a platoon out of the elements of the Brigade of Guards. If you are bent on regurgitating Nowa Omogiue’s crap, I suggest you seek a second opinion.

So you admit that Ogundipe gave an order to someone to gather a platoon out of the remaining elements of the Brigade of Guards? Why then was a poster accusing him of cowardice?

You may want to say Nowa Omogiue's account is crap but it has not been refuted by any credible historian. His version of events his corroborated by versions from Obasanjo, Adekunle, Ademoyega and others. Like they say, the truth is bitter sometimes.

Thanks for sharing this new insight as to what happen to Ogundipe, this thread is for all Nigerians to contribute but the Biafrans hijack it and made it their own little baby in other to glorify Ojukwu

We need more inputs from other Nigerians, Mid- westerns don’t be mute about it.
[quote][/quote]A fact of life is that people always look for someone else to blame for their problems. The really sad fact in all these is that some biafran propagandists are beating war drums about incidents that happened about 45 years ago when they are still being hounded and cheated by their fellow countrymen. Are their no governors in the east? are they performing to the best of their ability? No, with the probable exception of one governor, the rest are looters.

Are their no ritual killers and kidnappers in the east? Are the kidnappers hausa or yoruba people? Probable not; why not face current issues instead of issues from the past that will serve no purpose. This applies to us all as Nigerians. Why are we talking about the past when our kinsmen, country men are still cheating and killing us indirectly?

Back to the topic, why do SOME igbo people continue to blame other tribes for their problems? Please answer the folowing questions:

1. Did Yoruba/ mid-western people ask Zik to join an alliance with the North?
2. Did anyone ask predominantly igbo officers to organise a coup and murder northern political and military elite?
3. Why did Ifeajuna warn his cousin, Zik, about the impeding coup? This allowed zik the opportunity to go and chill in the carribean while the january coup was being planned and executed?
4. Why was the Eastern premier not Killed?
5. Why was Unegbe the only igbo officer killed? The coupists claimed it was because he prevented access to the armoury. This is false because as quartermaster, he did not control access to the armoury. Anyone with military antecedents will corroborate this.
6. After having killed the northerners, were they not expecting reprisals from the north?


I schooled in the east and I have many igbo friends and Nzeogwu was my military hero as a young man. The coup might have succeeded if Ifeajuna executed his part of the plan like Nzeogwu. As much as I loved Nzeogwu, him and the other coupists must be held responsible for starting it all because they drew the first blood.

Now for those beating war drums, a few facts:
1. In the months leading to the war, Yoruba officers kept quiet and acted like peacemakers. They were also outnumbered in the military in those days by Igbo and Northern officers.
2. Both Ojukwu and his opponents (Murtala, Danjuma) were all mouthing off about finishing each other on the battlefield. It was all mount because without Adekunle and Obasanjo, they would have fought forever. It is on record that the division under Murtala did not gain any ground into the east during the war. The war was worn with Adekunle's Marine commando.
3. The only Biafran success in the war, was the defeat of Federal forces in the Mid-west and the advance to Lagos which was halted at Ore. The commander of that unit was Ayo Banjo.
4. The east lost the war
5. Ojukwu fled for all his intelligence and oratory. Effiong surrendered to Obasanjo.


War or secession is not the answer. The answer lies within us all.
Please only intelligent and factual replies.

Onlytruth:
Who was Ojukwu "mutiny-ing" against at that stage? Officers who were his juniors or equals in rank Ogundipe wasn't even there! He fled.
You see my friend, this your "might is right" mindset is why Nigeria can never be one. Do you think you can keep Nigeria one by force? You are dreaming my friend. This is 21st century. Only justice can keep Nigeria one! But I'm afraid that with your type around, Nigeria's fate is sealed!
So you see him as smart because he chickened out? These are some of the cowards who let Nigeria down when it matterd most. You continue fooling yourself into thinking we have a nation when her soldiers flee at the sight of the slighest danger. Na wa o!

Please do your research before coming on the net to expose your ignorance.
Ogundipe did not flee. The northern soldiers started their mutiny and took over the cantonment. Murtala, Adamu, Joe garba were all in Ikeja cantonment; they had no means of escape and had in fact commandeared an airforce plane to move their families out of the west. Ogundipe sent two units to quell the coup; both units were ambushed, one at Mobolaji Bank-Anthony way, Ikeja and the second at Bonny. Ogundipe, realising that there was a stalemate sent Gowon (who was with Ogundipe when making plans to quell the coup) to the coup-plotters at Ikeja to arrange dialogue and peaceful surrender.

On getting to Ikeja, Gowon had a dialogue with the coupists. It was during this dialogue that a northern soldier mentioned the idea of confederation. Gowon, curious as to what it meant, asked what that would entail. The British High commissioner, who was in attendance, then said to the northern soldiers that their people would suffer if they entertained such an idea.

At this point, a solution was put forward and it was that Gowon should become Head since the coupists and Ogundipe could not trust one another. Gowon was chosen because he was not part of the part, he was from the north, and he was a pacifist. Ogundipe had to agree because there was no one else who could support him. Gowon agreed to the idea because he felt it would bring peace. This is why years later, Murtala would use yar adua and Garba to overthrow Gowon.

So you see, Ogundipe did not run and he was not a coward.

bricks:
guy!, look before you leap.google Mobolaji Bank -Anthony.in death-his estate still Gives out £5,000schorlaships to students.

Yes Mobolaji Bank-Anthony was a great philanthropist but even him could not match MKO's philanthropy.

bricks:
this is the kind of yans and attitude taht has put nigeria in this condition.w ealways deviate from teh point.

The point is that your government is responsible for infrastructure and not private institutions. If ITT did not deliver because of failed processes in the business, it is the investors that suffer. Did you own any shares in ITT; please reason intelligently and stop blaming other people for your woes.

we say some one stole, what has colonialism infracture have to do with it?

I brought up the colonial infrastructure to point out to you that even when the infrastructure (Railway, Power, roads) was delivered, what was done by your government to maintain it. So even if ITT delivered this infrastructure that you are talking about in 1977, can you boldly say, you would have met it in the 1990s?  

Stop blaming other people for your problems. What have you done has a person to correct the ills in society? You sit on the internet and slander dead people who contributed directly and indirectly to the welfare of others.

bricks:
ITT was supposed to lay the foundation for the telecommunication's(voice,data) revolution that would have taken place in Nigeria some 20something yrs ago.
ask urself why the rest of the world laughed at us when we about to lunch the then ageing GSM technology in the 21st century, nig***r please!

ITT was supposed to lay foundation 20 years ago!!! and what about the actual infrastructure left by the British? Has that being maintained by successive governments? If a foreign commercial entity fails in delivering on a project, how does that affect your basic human right or your rights as a Nigerian? Have you held your governments to ransom over inadequate supply of power or poor transportation infrastructure?

The fact is a lot has been said about this ITT and Abiola, and I believe that we do not have the facts; moreso when you consider that most of the posters on the forum are likely to have been no more than kids when the incident occured. So we hold on to stories that were passed on from past generations.

Judge the man based on what you witness and not on rumours. Abiola did a lot for people all over Nigeria. No Nigerian has surpassed him in giving to the less priviledged and there are many today who are at least as rich as he was. He was a Youba man, yet he gave to Northerners, Easterners, and Westerners. Can you think of any other Nigerian who distributed his wealth across tribal lines? Please come back with some sensible arguments and not some unsubstantiated bullshit peddled by imbeciles.

I can not believe the level of ignorance and ungratefulness being displayed on this forum.
This is why Nigeria does not have heroes; because when they are gone, Nigerians will slander their names.

Was Abiola suffering when he decided to run for president? The man wanted to atone for some past mistakes and I believe that he atoned for his past mistakes by paying with his life. Many times, Abacha offered him the opportunity to renounce June 12 yet he refused proclaiming that death was better than disgrace.

Was ITT a Nigerian government entity? If he became rich as a result of his position in a multi-national corporation, how is that stealing from Nigerians.

Carry on complaining and waiting for a saviour.

Poster

I thought there was only one Lisbon and its in Portugal, not Germany.