If that is the real Eboue then coogar really lives in the jungle.  
Quite a funny chap though.

I fully expected some irredeemable slowpokes like Starboard to have come here to mention my name in irrelevant chatter. If you're silly enough not to realise after all my posts this season that I'm not bullish about this current team then you need to see your shrink quickly and are not deserving of a response from me.    
If you cannot distinguish between short term tactical and long term strategic thinking in management, you have a very good recent example to learn from in Rangers if yu're actually not incapable of learning.

Firstly, I have stated unequivocally here that Arsenal fans should celebrate a top 4 finish if this team achieves it. As far as I'm concerned, we don't have a team capable of beating RM and Barcelona over 2 legs both in style and ability so I'll take us going as far as we can in the UCL competition. That doesn't mean I'm happy with yesterday's result however. The team out there yesterday was capable of doing better but did not do so and would need a lot of self examination as to why that happened.

Secondly, the team was wrongly constituted from the start IMO and with the understanding that squad rotation is key at this stage, I can understand the presence of Theo but cannot understand having Ramsey and Rosicky on the pitch at the same time. If you go back and watch the games where we were beaten heavily this season those 3 players were on the pitch. If Arsene felt it was important to rest Ox despite Gervinho returning on Saturday, he could at least have played Benayoun instead of Ramsey to put some hustle into the team.
I have stated the importance of the "Cesc" role countless times and I still can't recall Ramsey playing any meaningful penetrative passes yesterday till RVP dropped deep after all hope was already lost. Infact, Song and Rosicky made more of such passes than he did from deeper and wider positions.
I'll accept TV5's uncharacteristic mistakes as I believe it to be a oneoff but I wonder why he looked so nervy and and undecided when he had the ball yesterday.

Thirdly, yesterday's loss was not about who we bought or didn't buy in the January window rather it was about the team not turning up on the day and getting deservedly beaten. I disagreed when people said our run of 3 losses in the absence of our wingbacks was due to Arsene not taking a loan option for a left wingback during the window. It should be clear to those who held that view that it wasn't necessarily true cos we had our wing backs back yesterday and got smashed anyway. I dare say that we've played better without our first choice wingbacks this season than we did yesterday.

Where we go from here is left to the team, they can choose to buy into the opinion that they are not good enough to win anything and never will be or they can take yesterday as yet another setback to recover from and take the hurt they feel from having underperformed in the game to Sunderland with a determination to make ammends quickly in the FA cup and not allow another rot to set in.
The current squad has already broken a good number of negative records (biggest loss in the league in the PL era and now biggest loss in europe in the UCL era) so there isn't much further depth for them to fathom anyway.

To keep things balanced though, lets not forget that on this day in this season and with such horrendous performances we've seen so far this season, we still remain in 2 competitions that some of the clubs whose fans are coming to mouth off here have fallen out of and while so many negative records have been set, there are a lot more positive records waiting to be set.
More importantly to pacify Debo, that 160m is still in the bank, (infact I expect it to have grown in the interim) to make some additions to the team in the summer.

Lest I forget, here is my belated Val dedication to DK and co.

[flash=400,300]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zub7o3MguEg[/flash]

Hope y'all had a wonderful Valentine experience yesterday? I hope all you Gooner guys didn't forget to strap up or Gooner babes forget their morning after pills (better late than never if you did forget). You don't want to be having the blood of any innocents on your hands in the coming months.   

I'm still feeling the love this morning though I'm a bit peeved cos I had to come to work early instead of having a lie in.    so here is my dedication to all you Gooner babes out there. ([size=2pt]I'm still actively chasing my dream of having one from every continent[/size])   

[flash=400,300]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EiubhDPat8[/flash]

So that you great gooner guys don't feel left out, here is as close as I could get to Bromance.   

[flash=400,300]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_hlBHE3c-A[/flash]

I'm still actively searching for a dedication to delightful crackpots like DK, frienemies too numerous to count as well as current and prospective members of the LGBT community like Coogar and Starboard who eminently grace our thread. 

I'm still waiting to exhale after yesterday's match, even though its not right that Per is injured but its really okay cos we've got Djourou and while I dont want to leave Whitney in the dark, I really have to find where broken hearts go as we've got nothing in common and I really wanna rock with somebody cos we're above Chelsea in the table.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY HNIC, how do I get my drumsticks and wheres the Karaoke at?

dayokanu:

Bayern Munich and FC Basel 1893 have agreed the terms of a transfer deal for 20-year-old Switzerland international Xherdan Shaqiri. The 1.69 m / 5 ft 6 in midfielder, who completed his obligatory pre-transfer medical in Munich this week, has signed a four-year contract with FC Bayern, dated from 1 July 2012 until 30 June 2016.

“We’re delighted we’ve secured the signing of Xherdan Shaqiri, one of the most sought-after talents in European football,“ commented Bayern director of sport Christian Nerlinger.

“Xherdan’s intelligent play and dribbling skill will add to our team’s strength next season,” added FCB head coach Jupp Heynckes, “I’ve been observing him for a while now, and I’m convinced he can become a very important player for FC Bayern.”

The player moves from Switzerland to Germany for an undisclosed fee

http://www.fcbayern.telekom.de/en/news/news/2012/33358.php

And so the future of the next generation of UCL superstars is being decided.

Shaqiri down, Eriksen, Hazard and Neymar to follow. I just hope one of Eriksen or Hazard ends up at Arsenal. Neymar will end up in either Madrid or Barcelona for sure.

This run of games na die, squeaky bum is an understatement.
but we'll quickly know where we stand this season at least.

Sunderland A
Milan A
Sunderland A
Sp*rs H
Liverpool A
Milan H
Newcastle H

debosky:

On the contrary - the Kroenke folk are interested ONLY in money and not trophies - the others are both improving their clubs financially AND aiming to win trophies. When Wenger talks, he doesn't talk about sides able to win trophies, he talks about how much profit he can make - the answer is right there.

Talk is cheap, supply proof to this statement. Give facts and figures and not populist innuendo.   

debosky:

W we have not seen ANY benefit from these ‘other income streams’- no ability to buy better players, so what was the point of the scheme except to boost the board’s shareholdings for a bigger payoff when Kroenke bought them out?

That you don't see them doesn't mean they don't exist. You might simply be blind to them or it might simply mean it is in a gestation period. Some people sell off the riches of their predecessors while some add to it. This board will leave Arsenal better than they met it both in football and financial terms. And if they'd only been interested in money, they would have sold off to Usmanov rather than Kroenke. In case you don't know, The last Arsenal shares bought by the fanshare scheme cost about 15,500 per share from the 10,000 per share it was when the fanshare scheme started and the 11,750 at which Kroenke took over. (Biolabee can confirm as he is also on the fanshare scheme if you think I'm lying).

debosky:

So we have decided to quadruple our cash held to 120% of wages from less than 50% of wages for 'future' wage increases? Do you pull this nonsense out on a normal day or is this you outperforming yourself?

This is my statement, take a closer look at it or go get your glasses. 

[Quote]Unless you're being illogical, you will know that the wage bill is not static and is poised to increase in the near future if something like FFP doesn't bring it under control. You do make a good point that while 35m was considered adequate to cover an 83m wage bill (or was it? and is that where the money from some player trading diverted to cover?), why exactly do we need 160m for a 124m wage bill now? These are questions to stimulate thinking and I'm not drawing any hard conclusions as they will not be based on fact but presumption.[/quote]

It did not refer only to cover for future wages alone if I'm not mistaken, NO?

You started from a default position that 50% of coverage in cash for wages was enough to maintain the cash flow required to sustain operations, an assertion which is not necessarily true as you are not privy to any other short term loans that might have been required to make up the shortfall in cash but will not show up on the balance sheet or at the most show up only as finance charges. If you examined my statement thoroughly you would see that I stated expressly that I was not drawing any hard conclusions as I do not have the facts at hand.

What I do know as fact is that between 2005 and now:

1. We have delivered a world class stadium
2. We have made more money from selling than buying players
3. We have brought our debt to sustainable levels
4. No one has been collecting dividend at Arsenal
5. Our net cash position is now a positive one and shows a club in very good financial health

On the basis of the above, I'd trust those who managed to get the club into that position (without any benefactor input) with any cash we might have than people who just pull figures out of the air and would go on a spending spree without ascertaining how much exactly they have to spend   

debosky:

The simple answer is that we DON’T need £160m - we are foolishly sitting on the cash while our playing squad languishes.

Another of your out of the air statements without any premise. Does a board that delivered the emirates looks like one that will just choose to sit down on cash for no justifiable reason? Does Kroenke look like a mug to you? The strength of Arsenal lies in its football competitiveness, do you honestly think Kroenke who's money is tied into the club and stands to lose the most with any downturn would do anything to jeopardise that and be satisfied just counting his money everyday like Mallam Audu? 

debosky:

Yeah - others would like to see a rational completion date for the ‘project’ instead of endless waiting for the next window that ends up disappointing again with purchases like Park and Amaury Bischoff. But hey, folk like you are happy with 50% as a pass mark so why change?

Those who demand rationality should first of all show that they can think rationally. Is it rational to expect a club that spends on the average about 40m less than its direct competitors annualy to continually deliver the same level of success its direct competitors who outspend it do? 

debosky:

Yet Arsenal cannot do the same thing - that shows the inherent weakness at the club. we foolishly hold on to deals valuing us less than Tottenham but complacency is killing Arsenal.

You already know why that is so, its the price of having the emirates. I think you can put that rational completion date you mentioned earlier to the 2013/2014 season when those lock in deals end as it seems there is no escape route out of them but I wouldn't bet against Arsene doing what you consider impossible before then.

debosky:

If you’re ignorant go and find out how much they now earn since moving to Samsung and Adidas from Fly Emirates and Nike.

More than the 500m Abramovic has written off? The fact is that Chelsea still has less revenue annually than Arsenal despite all of Abramovic's write offs and Arsenal's Commercial income limitation due to the frontloading of the endorsement deals to fund the building of the emirates. I think I prefer our model.

debosky:

Stop repeating the same rubbish each time - NO ONE is calling for Chelski or Utd spending here - we don’t need to spend like Utd to get in a striker that will actually play and not warm the bench all season despite being fit. We didn't need Chelski spending to have slowed down the break-up of the invincibles.

We didn't need Manure spending to have kept on Pires for example, as Utd kept onto Giggs.

Yeah right, that is what you always say but the evidence is contrary. I have given you this simple assignment yu've been unable to complete. Show me a club in the PL spending less than any of those 2 and has performed better than Arsenal in the period under review and I'll keep quiet.

dayokanu:

He is a good buy cos he wont mind sitting on the bench for Robbery unlike someone like Reus

Hope he plays up to the potential he showed at the U21 and in the CL games

Are yu sure about this? He might be very ambitious.

He deserves a last Hurrah I think, it would be a shame if he doesn't win the ANC.
Don't hold any hope that he'll continue such form in the PL. 

Are you bringing him in to deliver you from mighty Dortmund who we spanked in our group? 
Good for Bayern sha, top quality prospect who is already delivering.

edoyad:

@dudu go sleep. That's what I'm goin to do now.

right after this response to Debo, then I'll go trouble DK a bit on the Bayern thread.   

debosky:

Because we took on extra debt for the property business. With all your quoting of figures I’d think you were more aware of Arsenal happenings.

Thanks for the correct answer, your reward  is a packet of condoms (send me the addy to post it to) even though the question wasn't for you but for proudly.   
follow on question: Was it Arsene who made the decision to take on the debt? 

debosky:

Again I’m disappointed - the board renegotiated the loans at a low interest rate for a longer period which was a great move considering the recession. Besides, the danger we faced there is another clear example of why we should focus on the FOOTBALL being the main revenue earner and not buying and selling of either players or property.

Fa - Fa - Fowl, you should be disappointed in yourself. The loan that was renegotiated was part of the money for building the Emirates and not for Highbury which is now basically all payed up. The question Proudly asked was what had happened to all the money made from transfers in the past and what they were invested into.
I agree that a football club should be primarily focused on football but the question you should ask yourself is if the money Abramovic pumped in and the one the Abu Dhabi group is now pumping in is from Football and if the return they expect from it is monetary? You already know Kroenke and the Arsenal board are not in it to massage their egos. 
If other clubs are getting money from benefactor handouts, is it really a bad thing for a club to look into other income streams? particularly when they know that previous commitments have greatly limited their commercial stream relative to prevailing figures.

debosky:

Unless you’re being completely illogical, then the wage bill has little or no correlation to the cash at hand - the wage bill in 2006 was £83m, while the wage bill is now £124m. There is absolutely no reason to quadruple cash in hand from £35m to £160m to deal with a wage bill that has increased by only 50% over that period.

Unless you're being illogical, you will know that the wage bill is not static and is poised to increase in the near future if something like FFP doesn't bring it under control. You do make a good point that while 35m was considered adequate to cover an 83m wage bill (or was it? and is that where the money from some player trading diverted to cover?), why exactly do we need 160m for a 124m wage bill now? These are questions to stimulate thinking and I'm not drawing any hard conclusions as they will not be based on fact but presumption.
Personally, I think there is some money to buy but how much I don't know which is why I strongly believe we'll be active in the summer but I'd rather its the manager who was able to keep us competitive in very difficult circumstances making those decisions than people who have never seen any project to completion.

debosky:

Utd’s wage bill is growing, but revenue is growing with it without stunting their ability to bring in talent. The way they achieve that is by winning trophies and thus attracting more sponsors/commercial deals. If Arsenal continue failing to win trophies, the sponsors will go elsewhere and you will then have lower revenues as a consequence. The proactive thing to do is to spend while you’re still attractive (i.e. in the CL) to ensure you stay there and IMPROVE, rather than going backwards as Arsenal are doing.

Where have Liverpool's sponsors gone to? If I'm not mistaken, they just signed a deal worth more than Manure's with Warrior despite being out of the UCL for the 2nd season in a row.
How many sponsors exactly have Birmingham been able to attract despite winning the CC last year? How many were Portsmouth able to attract after winning the FA Cup?
How much exactly has Chelsea's income stream improved with all the money Abramovic has pumped in?
I think you need to rethink this assumed relationship between Trophies, Commercial income and the scale of investment to get those trophies in the first instance. If Arsenal were spending like Chelsea or Manure, it would have gone bankrupt ages ago.

debosky:

All these figures confirm is that Wenger is REFUSING to spend in order to have a ready excuse to fall back on - lack of players, and is seeking personal glory by attempting to do the impossible, while in actual fact taking Arsenal backwards.

All they show is that Arsenal have done what most clubs have been able to do, stay competitive under difficult financial circumstances, managed change in a very competitive environment and given themselves a very solid foundation for the present and the future in doing so.

A lot of my friends have stopped spending so the price of Merchandise has come down through the official channels so me sef don start an arsenalisation project for my house as they're always having sales now.  You'd better join me cos if we win FA cup demand will soar and prices will go up with the return of the prodigal children   

hannie:

I actually do agree with some of the hogwash that u seemed to put up in the last few pages, but with this last financial BALDERDASH, I am tempted to say u are one hell of a JOBLESS AGBAYA!!!

Get us a freaking trophy! thats what we been telling AW . . .not show us a foolish balance sheet that indicates we are all just pawns in all of these shebang!!! 

damn! 

Doki, I didn't say you were a pawn o but I do see you on a chess board.
I have good vibes about the FA cup from that Villa fightback but lets see what Slim's Mayan calendar has to say about it.
However, in the league, if we make top 4 we will need to arrange idupe in a church. 

slimshay:

Jisox!!! Dudu is this what you resurrected me to come and be reading?!

If I wanted financial mumbo jumbo I join subsidy probe comittee. Choi

Erm, nor be my fault. My basket mouth has to leak sometimes and I was starting to get bored by Debo and the echo of my own voice so I needed the General back on the thread.

@Ritchie

I seriously doubt Arsene made those comments. Haba, if you hear a quote attributed to Le Prof you sef should know naa.
The Arsene I know would never mention a figure or even mention the word profit. That is either another attempt at mischief or someone attempting to fill in the blanks.

@Proudly
Where the money went to even me sef don't know but I'm trying to fill in the blanks. I've compiled some figures for you and they should give some pointers to answer that question about where the money went.  

Year       Wage Bill         Gross Debt            Cash at Hand and in Bank               Net debt
                                                   (at year end)
2006       82,965,000        297,742,000           35,598,000                             262,144,000
2007       89,703,000        342,054,000           73,877,000                             268,202,000
2008      101,302,000        411,337,000           93,264,000                             318,000,000          
2009      103,978,000        397,297,000           99,617,000                             297,000,000
2010      110,733,000        263,246,000          127,607,000                            135,000,000
2011      124,401,000        260,500,000          160,229,000                         ~100,000,000

Points to ponder.

1. Why did our Gross debt go up rather than come down between 2006 to 2008, after the move to the emirates despite the sudden realisation of massively higher revenue streams?

2. Where did the money to pay that down come from when there is no Abramovic to write a cheque? (partial answer is that about 130m of it ultimately came from the sales of the Higbury flats, but where did the money to stave off the accrual of interest come from and could a cycle of debt have developed at that point in time if financial obligations weren't met? or worse still put yourself in the mind of the board at that period of uncertainty in the UK housing market what would have happened to Arsenal (and their investments) if the Highbury project didn't ultimately break even by about 2010. Was there a possibility of a Liverpool/Gillete and Hicks occuring at that time? I can't be sure, but I'll say it was a distinct possibility.

3. While keeping your eye on the ever increasing wage bill (and we are not alone in this mind you, just take a look at manure, Chelsea and City's, I also project Tottenham's will breach 100m this season) ponder awhile on this question, why do we need to keep more cash at hand in 2011 compared to 2006?  

4. More important than question 3, assuming the wage bill continues to increase at the same rate its done between 2006 and now? what will it be by 2017 and what will Arsenal's revenue be (in comparison) by that time and would you consider that to be sustainable? If you were the owner or the manager, what would you do as a proactive person?

Those questions are a bit of a rant, but I believe you get my drift and they are the reason why Arsene has persisted with 'some' inferior quality players, and remember that for every Almunia and Denilson, there is a Cesc or RVP who was bought cheap and developed to elite World class level.

Now, back to where the money went, this concluding part comes with a caveat emptor and you can imagine every disclaimer possible, all I'll ask of you is to tell me if it sounds reasonable.  

I've followed the story till last year's transfer window and the general consensus from those in the know was that Arsenal went into uncharted territory with the attempt to redevelop Highbury on their own. They had offers to sell off the land in the 80 to 100m range but were convinced by Keith Edelmann (who has since been shown the exit door) to redevelop it on their own. The general idea was that the emirates would have to pay off off for itself while the expected Bumper returns from redeveloping Highbury would go into the playing squad (and a vibrant property business alongside it) but so far after all their toil on the emirates, the total profit expected from it (now that they've paid off the debt) is going to be less than 40 (when they could have walked away with about 80m in 2006).

My take on this is that in the period from 2006 till about last season when they finally got the weight of Highbury redevelopment off the books, money from player sales was being kept in the bank to maintain capital adequacy ratios so they wouldn't fall behind in repayments for the loans taken for Highbury's redevelopment, now that the loan is fully repaid they are basically just holding off to see the effect of FFP on wages and the transfer market if the upward pressure will continue.

The figure for cash at hand is the reason why most commentators are up in arms about money being available for transfers, and they do have a point particularly when Arsenal's debt profile at this point is pretty comfortable compared to the recent past and direct competitors as shown below:


The Group’s financial liabilities/debt is repayable as follows:
                                                              2011                                      2010
                                                             £000’s                                   £000’s


Between one and two years                  6,545                                    6,209
Between two and five years                 21,842                                  20,719
After five years                                    225,904                                233,234
                                                           254,291                                260,162
Within one year                                       6,209                                    5,890

Total debt                                            260,500                                 266,052


Proudly most importantly, never ever forget that Stan Kroenke is a business man. He will watch out for his own pocket first and I hold no brief for him.
But I hold brief for Arsene Wenger and will stand up anywhere that he is a Effing genius who is at the least making an impossible ask work and at the most might well be enroute to making it an astounding success.

ritchboy:

Frimpong has done his ligaments again. . .

That means another 9 months for Arsenal physios to run their mad-scientist experiments!

Abeg, the boy doesn't need Physios jare. There must be some Dibias back home in Accra.

debosky:

Wilshere got overused last season and he is suffering for it now so my point still stands firm. When you depend on young players too early and too much the Wilshere situation is what emerges. I am vindicated because Wenger has waited nearly 6 months before chucking Ox into a starting role - so he doesn’t make the same mistakes as before.

Even Szezney is not immune - if he had more competition he wouldn’t try some silly things he does.

Besides, Walcott made 3 assists in the same game, so what is the story here?

As far as I’m concerned there is no Walcott vs Oxlade argument - they are different players with different developmental paths and different strengths. The game on Saturday shows that the key is playing them together not one for the other.

Mr Gervais Yao might have to settle for being an impact sub when he returns from Gabon.

Lai lai, even if Gervinho wastes 20 chances in a game, he is the kind of player any manager would name in his starting 11. It would be an error of immense proportions to bench Gervais for Theo. When Gervinho is fit, Theo automatically becomes a chairman. If Gervinho is as driven as Theo, we would have another guaranteed double digit goal getter on our hands
I get your point about the kids sha, infact if it is only to make them very hungry and not take the opportunity to wear the Arsenal shirt for granted I think it is good to not play them too early.

debosky:

As for you dudu counting right and wrong, if I decide to list the JETs, Simpsons, Hoytes and others you have backed here, there wouldn’t be enough text to fill in the times you’ve been wrong. Like Donkey likes to say, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Seriously, I'll give you JET and I still believe Arsene will someday regret or at least question his decision to release JET.
But I never agitated for any of those other 2 to overtake anyone apart from when Theo was in his 'Lack of a football brain mode' 2 seasons back. 

proudly9ja:

Hiring Mour is the ONLY reason Il support replacing AW.

As for my thoughts about challenges at Arsenal, its simple. Bring in the right players at the right time. Arsene should be ready to admit when his experiments fail. Denilson, Senderous, Almunia, Cygan, etc when we could have had Alonso, Schwazer at different times in the past few seasons. Last season, a CB (maybe Samba) in January (even if on loan) may have at worst given us second position. Not until we got to the stage of begging Lehmann out of retirement did Arsene realise we needed to do something in the GK position (when we could have got Schwazer months earlier).

Its not about spending millions of pounds. Its about bringing in the right players when we NEED them and I don't doubt Arsene's ability to spot the players, I just doubt his ability to do the business at the right time. The last 6 (going on 7) seasons have proved that. And I believe this boils down to his stubborness (loyalty to some of his players). One would think he would have learnt from Henry, Cesc and Nasri situations. Can I ask why Arsene refused to loan a LB with Santos gone till March (hopefully) and with Gibbs even at his best, not yet the player who could replace Clichy? Or why are we persisting with Chamakh? Henry  will be gone soon (not that he is can be considered as a replacement for RVP) and we'l be stuck with praying for RVP not to get injured? (If Arsene could not play Park when we were leading Blackburn 6 - 1, and with Chamakh still absent, I don't see when he's going to play him).


I have nothing to say about management because I do not think our problem is lack of money. I don't think if Arsene insists on  bringing in a player, they won't let him. From what I know, the problem is Arsene himself. In line with this, solution is also simple. Wenger needs to change his ways. I had little hopes after the loss to United and he brought in Arteta, Per and Santos but the way he's messed up the opportunity we had in January to bring in a LB and a forward on loan or otherwise shows that he's back to the same Ol Arsene Wenger - bringing in a LB and Striker will affect both Gibbs and Chamakh.

@dudu, can u cite one situation in the past 6 seasons where Arsene can confidently  tell the fans, 'I told you so'? Maybe a situation where he had kept faith with a player against fans wishes and that player had gone on to live up to Arsene's expectations?

It is easy to ask this questions from the outside if you're not the one who has to carry the can for those decisions or when you don't have to live with the opportunity cost of the money spent for a purpose being unavailable for another purpose. Seriously, ask any student of Management who takes the time to look into Arsenal's figures, they'll tell you Arsene is nigh working miracles. I listened to the New England Patriots owner on talksports last friday and they interviewer brought up his past interest in Liverpool when it was on the market and his points were very revealing.
I am bold to say it that Mourinho cannot have achieved at Arsenal what Arsene has done, infact he would not take the job.

And about keeping faith with players, I will always refer to RVP who is the toast of everyone now. I can direct you to posts where a great number of fans were saying he was a waste of money (I can point you to articles from sites like Le-grove who are now the toast of a good number of Arsenal fans cos all they can do is criticize). Infact I need not look beyond some things DK said about him on past threads. The other Three are Hleb, Flamini (before they really grew in the 07/08 season) and lest I forget Alex Song who was written off as an 18 year old by the same Le-grove and most other fan sites as being incapable of playing for Arsenal. 

Besides, while those players might not have met the fan's expectations, don't be too sure most of them didn't meet Arsene's expectation. If you don't have money and are wearing rags, it is not because you don't know that designer agbada is good, it is simply because you are stuck with what you can afford. 

Seriously take a look at those figures I posted earlier again and ask yourself if it is right to demand the kind of success Manure/Chelsea have from Arsene when over an 11 year period, he spends roughly about 35 - 45 m overall annually less than those clubs (even more in the case of Chelsea and City). Take a look again at all the players Arsene has brought in, sometimes developed  and ultimately sold for a profit and ask yourself what could have been if we'd kept them, why Arsenal couldn't hold on to them and where the money gotten for them has gone to (at least we know Arsene isn't taking bungs like Harry.  ). Finally, take a look at what that money amounts to and compare it to what Chelsea and City have spent or frittered away.

Strip away the veneer of noise and frustration at not winning trophies amplified by the press and the truth will be immediately evident.
In a PL where even popular and performing coaches (like Mourinho himself) are sacked at a owner's whim, there is a very good reason why every successive owner of Arsenal has stuck to Wenger almost like a drowning man to a saviour. Debo actually knows the reason, what we disagree on is the entire ownership model and the sustainable spending that underpins Arsenal's approach to the game which runs counter to popular wisdom. Also, Debo gets overtly emotional about Arsenal and is totally unable to cope with the lack of silverware and the seeming lack of a light at the end of the tunnel while I'm an eternal optimist.   

A satisfying weekend which I mostly spent on the road, thank God for Information Technology, me sef enter 7th heaven small. Infact, one of my friends back pains miraculously disappeared when he heard the scores (Arsene be praised  ) The only downside was the realisation that the men in the middle are still dashing Fergie's boys BOGOF penalties. A new record now exists that Manure are the first team to score 4 consecutive penalty goals in the PL or so I heard. 

Still keeping my expectations real though. A top four finish should be applauded this season and we can achieve it if we're able to keep our best players on the pitch. I'll reevaluate after the summer and hope the financial constraints are loosened.

proudly9ja:

+3 points and +6 goals difference. Good work.

Missed the game but from what Ive heard so far, Chambo didn't disappoint and we played a certain Theo Maradona on the right side of attack  . Another goal for the IGWE himself.
Me ke? Im right behind Papa Wenger. Unless they assure me they are bringing in Mour as replacement, Arsene Wenger 4 life! Ive spent years shouting about most things people are saying now. I also suggested a protest years ago.

Mour as replacement ke? I dey laugh o, you nor know say na balance sheet Mour dey look before he accepts a job? 
Great to have a fear factor back at the Ems, infact that is our biggest victory at the Ems and good vibes to start off a rather difficult run of games starting with the form team of the PL (Sunderland).
and seriously Proudly, I'd like to pick your brains a bit about what you think the problem/challenge is at Arsenal and what your proposed solution is.   

dayokanu:

Oxlade subbed out to a standing ovation.

Can we still have this Oxlade vs Walcott argument?

Its been long I was impressed at first sight by an Arsenal player.

Seeing AOC at an U21 game and I knew he was already better than Wankott

Not needed, Debo knows when he's missed the boat. 
Debosky, I was right and you were wrong again. Szczesny, Wilshere and now Ox. That is (3 - 0) to duduspace o.   

By the way DK, your other friend Sordell has come to the PL as predicted with Bolton. I'm sure yu'll start seeing him too very soon.
Who will buy that Aubmeyang boy from Gabon? if the English media woulnd't start complaining about too many African players at Arsenal and come up with conspiracy theories about Arsene's long lost African great grandfather, I want that boy at Arsenal.
AC Milan were very silly to lose such a prospect, that must be one of the reasons they've gone back in recent years. Any club that quickly releases players like that and Gourcuff are doing a lot wrong and are yet to understand that the football landscape has shifted and that teams have got to ensure a working youth system to produce for the first team.

edoyad:

I doubt that. Even the commentators mentioned how the absence was a sign of disenchantment. Inspite of the big scoreline some Arsenal fans left the stadium before the final whistle.

When was the last time you heard an English commentator have anything good to say about Arsenal? There were route distruptions on the Tube and the game time had to be moved by 2 hours, the club even had to arrange some other activities for people who would be delayed going back home sef due to transport works  but of course the only thing the commentator can think of is that people are disenchanted?
You need not look beyond the fact that immediately after a 7 - 1 win, the first media action is to start RVP and Barca rumors to a point where even Barca have to start denying that they have an interest. 

Thanks Proudly.
Yu sef dey carry bin liner today?

dayokanu:

If you are a big club, theres a level you cant sink below.
Bayern in 7th? Ulli would blow his gasket

If Arsenal were in the Bundesliga, they would have given us the Trophy for keeps. All those 14 years of top 4 finishes would have been league wins.

debosky:

It’s not the first time, but how many of those times have we been 7th in February? How many of those times have Spurs been 13 points above us?

How many times in those times have City been above United at this stage of the season?

debosky:

You are sounding unintelligent with this type of commentary - the issue here is that we could have done MUCH MORE than just pay off some debts with some better spending. That is your main problem - satisfaction with mediocrity.

If I sound unintelligent, it is because yu're incapable of processing my points and giving an answer to core issues.
You still have not responded to the financials I posted earlier, all you've asked for is for me to to reduce the time spread which if I did would only leave you even more confused.   

debosky:

What has United done in the same time? Do you compare with the worst or the best and try to emulate them?

It is not possible for Arsenal to emulate Manure cos the business models are different. Manure aint bothered about running the club sustainably, Arsenal is.

debosky:

Self sustenance is not a target - that is what we’ve done for decades. It’s like saying the target of Man Utd is to play at OT. The new owners have no vision of winning - they just want to make as much money as possible. This is not a bank, it is a FOOTBALL CLUB.

It is a target, if not there would be no FFP. And Arsenal is a football club which is being run as a business.
If it wasn't, it wouldn't need to give annual results to the exchange its being traded on.

debosky:

Then don’t make silly comparisons - we are not doing what Barca did so it cannot produce the same results.

Did Barcelona stand still or go backwards like we’re doing? In that same period they’ve bought Villa, Fabregas, Alexis Sanchez, Mascherano amongst others while keeping Messi, Xavi and others. Yet you persist in making dim comparisons about a youth system alone.

We are doing precisely what Barca  did with tighter constraints and like you say, in a more competitive environment. If you can't decipher that in the comparisons then your hindsight needs more than a little tweaking as its less than 100%.

debosky:

It will never happen because others will continue to move forward, while we go backwards. It will never happen unless there is an earthquake in Manchester during Utd vs Chelski and Citeh vs Liverpool that kills all their players.

How much forward has Chelsea moved with all the money they spent? can Arsenal spend the same and survive without an Abramovic to absorb the losses? Has Kroenke ever sounded like someone in the least interested in absorbing such losses?

debosky:

Fiszman was ill for the last 3 years so it doesn't count, Dein is simply doing PR for Wenger as a friend and Kroenke is simply interested in profit and not footballing achievement. If profit is sufficient for you, then you might as well go and support Wolves as they make a profit too.

Naa you go and support City as they'll be the next Chelsea. I hear some Manure supporters are already making the transition. Its called being a fair weather supporter and isn't new. Another name for it is the herd effect.

debosky:

That Wenger was good in the past doesn't make him good in the present or future - his time is up[b] if [/b]he continues like this.

This is where I have issues with you, be clear and precise in your assertions. These Ifs and buts obsfucate your point.
Are you saying Arsene is no longer good and should go? If so state it clearly so you don't change it tomorrow when the team comes up with better results.
If what you're saying is that it will require a change in the strategic direction of the club, then it is no longer about Arsene but the leadership of the club which you can do nothing to change.
I consider these protests a form of self flagellation as I've never seen them work anywhere. (Newcastle 2 seasons ago, Blackburn after Venkys, Manure's Newton and Heath protests. They only gain audience when results are poor and I've never seen them bring any lasting change. He who pays the piper ultimately dictates the tune).

debosky:

What did Suarez achieve for Liverpool? What did Arshavin achieve for us a few years ago? To think this is not down to deficiencies in the squad is to say this isn’t even about football. If he got real strikers instead of duds like Park in the summer, we wouldn't be talking about getting one more striker.

Liverpool has not performed better than Arsenal for the past 14 years

The language of failures is using ONLY those that have failed as an excuse not to act. Are you a failure dudu?

Clubs in the 4th division are surviving - like I said, if your ambitions are to survive, you might as well go support Wigan who are also surviving.

What did Suarez achieve for Liverpoool? a top 4 finish? who bought Arshavin? Debosky? who has to offload Arshavin now? Debosky? who curses Arshavin every match now? Wenger?
The quintessence of failure are fools who take unnecessary risks and spend more than they have, are you a fool Debo?

debosky:

What you fail to comprehend is that we might fall so far back that it takes 2 seasons to return to CL footie. If we continue hemmoraging talent the way we did last summer (while remaining in the CL) how much worse do you think things will go?

Summer soon cometh and we shall see, this is not the first time we've heard these predictions of cataclysm.
Infact, I would have joined Proudly in wishing we drop to Europa so that you all see that things won't change if I didn't love Arsenal too much and realise that it would only prolong the transition period further.

debosky:

Another point - once Chelski overtook us in 05, we've never bettered them - you must be a bit naive to say Chelski did it for two seasons.
Kroenke is simply looking for a secure investment that turns over a transfer profit. He doesn't care about trophies. Heck even Wolves made a profit last season so that'd be good enough for Kroenke.

The reference to the money miss road guys was relative to Manure, and by the way this season isn't over yet so we'll take stock again come May.
Besides, despite the fact that Abramovic's pocket took over 500m hit, all they have to show for it is 2 seasons of winning the PL. In that same time, Arsenal have paid off a 500m debt and developed a brilliant youth system which might not be winning trophies yet but has gone a long way into helping pay off the stadium debt.
If you don't consider that a fair trade, then you must be worse than Shylock himself.  

debosky:

Someone that hasn't come out to set a target for his club? No vision, no ambition? Give me a break.

He has set it out, only you aint listening. Self sustainance is the key word. It is in almost every statement uttered by anyone in a position of leadership at Arsenal.

debosky:

Barcelona did not achieve anything by 'building' - the team that started off Pep's victories had Ronaldinho, Eto'o and other stars that cost far more than anything Arsenal appears to be willing to spend. If that's what you're calling 'building', then were is Arsenal's big buys to complement those being 'grown'?

It might not be the same horses for courses as the circumstances of both clubs were different e.g Barca was not paying off for a stadium. But could you compare the expenditure by Barcelona at that time to the expenditure of RM on the Galacticos? and who was clearing all trophies before them then? Barca or Real?
Nowadays, even an annual transfer expenditure of 250m and the purchase of 2 concurrent Ballon d'or winners isn't enough for RM to knock Barcelona off their perch with their youth system still producing year on year.

debosky:

As for Dortmund, they could succeed because they play in a less competitive league with only one other big shot (that slipped and allowed them in) - in our own case, we need three or four sides to collapse before we win. I've been telling you this exact same thing for over two years now but you still don't get it - you'll never get it.

Remember the important Questions? HOW MUCH? and HOW LONG?
If Dortmund did it, then it can be reproduced elsewhere, like you say though it might take longer to achieve and might never happen if an Abramovic or Abu Dhabi comes along every 5 years or so which is not likely as the bar gets raised each time. But remember Arsenals straits will also be loosened in 2013/2014 when our Turnover will definitely be increased with the renegotiation of major deals.
Personally, I don't want us getting into that war of attrition over who spends the most to success as that is not likely a battle we will ever win. Whoever is going to get burnt in that battle will get very badly burnt I can assure you. One thing I've learnt through history is that those who do well don't often follow the prevailing trends of their time.  

debosky:

We've been in the stadium over 5 years - what is the end product? Nothing. The best players we've nurtured for 5 years have all gone. No trophies and now about to go out of the CL. That you cannot perceive our decline shows that you will still be making excuses when we're 10th at the rate you're going.

Half measures will only lead to failure - it's foolish to invest in a stadium and consistently fail to get quality players to play in it.

There you go talking nonsense again - so the issue of getting one more striker in January now needs billionaires?

There's no point continuing this conversation - we'll see the reality unfold soon enough.

Seriously, the stadium mortgage was never going to disappear in one day. There has been a battle over what step would take Arsenal to the next level and it was decided long ago in the Dein era, don't you find it intriguing that every majority owner since then (Fiszman and now Kroenke) have stuck to Arsene like Glue? while Dein himself also speaks up for him?
The flip side of Arsenal's move actually is what you already pointed out in Nottingham Forest, if that stadium was not built when it was, Arsenal would today be in a worse situation than it currently is ceteris paribus.
And getting one more striker in January is not the issue as Messrs Fernando Torres and Andy Carroll have shown. When taken in isolation it looks unreasonable but when inserted as a piece of Jigsaw it makes a whole lot of sense. Even if Fernando Torres delivered a Trophy, I'm not sure it wouldn't be some kinda phyrric victory as Chelsea's consistent losses (Which Arsenal in its current situation cannot live with) has shown.

proudly9ja:

Dudu won't change. Ive given up on him. But I know what will change dudu. The day they tell him his fanshare is only worth the number of trophies we've won in the last 6 seasons in pounds, thats the day dudu will 'see the light'

Okay o I hear you, in the interim, chew on this. That was exactly what Peter Hill Wood told David Dein when he bought his shares for less than 250,000 but he later cashed out in 2005 with 75 million.  

Arsenal will survive this times that is what y'all fail to see. Players can lose form and get injured in the twinkling of an eye, Chelsea's PL wins are already being consigned to the dustbin of history where they belong just like Arsenal's past success , even a manager as successful as Fergie is already being questioned within a season just because some people have a little too much money to burn but never forget that the emirates will be appreciated by generations yet unborn and will stand as a symbol of visionaries who saw beyond the immediate. For that I'm proud to be an Arsenal fan and will always be.
This story aint done fellas, its just beginning.  

debosky:

Oh it's my assertion not the reality from the league table? H-okay!

They have been better this season, but I see no reason to believe that as a continuous trend. The fact that City is ahead of Manure today doesn't mean they will be there by this time next year or in 2 years time. Chelsea did do it for 2 seasons. If we will need to spend then we will. We are not exactly skint.

debosky:

Just wait till summer and season ticket demand goes soft - I see you're the type whose house must burn down first before realising fire extinguishers are a good invention.

And you see a fire which Kroenke who put over 500m of his own money into doesn't see and isn't prepared for?  

debosky:

You cannot 'build' a club to win trophies - you are still oblivious to this fundamental fact. Unless you're saying Arsenal is no longer interested in winning trophies, then it is clearly the wrong decision. Clubs exist to win trophies - failing to do so for 6 going on 7 years is a clear sign of failure. If you want to continue to spin it, feel free to do so.

That is precisely our point of departure, it is very possible to achieve success by building as Barcelona and Dortmund have shown in recent history, all it takes is TIME.
My point precisely is that Arsenal would probably have gone the way of Nottingham forest if they didn't leverage on Arsene's initial success to build the emirates. The earlier generation at Manure understood that revenue was of vital importance and built a high capacity stadium from their European success back in the day. Maybe your prime example of Nottingham forest would have been able to remain relevant if they had not chosen to remain in a 31,000 stadium after all their european success back in the day.

debosky:

I haven't said I'm deserting Arsenal, but when folk like you can't see the need for URGENT change, the club's future is in deep trouble.

I see a need for change, just not the type you're recommending, I don't print money and I'm not yet a billionaire.  

debosky:

Dudu keep deceiving yourself - abeg calculate how far behind Tottenham we are now and tell me.
Anyone who says Wenger did not rooster up the summer is equal to a holocaust denier and should be in jail.

You do the maths, its your assertion not mine.  
Anyone who says the rooster up is down to Arsene alone should be tied to a rock next to an oasis in the middle of the sahara.  

debosky:

What data? The abundance of empty seats at the Emirates? The increasing number of unsold tickets being hawked around by Arsenal? Don't worry - let's see how many show up for the Blackburn game.

Until it starts to show up on the Balance sheet or the Profit and Loss Accounts, na depression induced mirage. If Arsenal win the next 3 games, you know yu'll struggle to get tickets.  

debosky:

Nottingham Forest winning the CL is also a fact - if you want to continue to dwell in history, keep doing so while the world passes you by.
With the way things are going, 4uller's prayer to avoid the Europa League will come true.

Whatever happens Arsenal remains my club, even Nottingham Forest sef still get Fans and you've not really critically examined the reasons behind their demise only made a flimsy and irrelevant reference. There are 2 ways to renew a club's playing staff and prospects, its either you pay or you build. One takes longer and that is the path that Arsenal has chosen. Time will tell if its a wrong decision or the right one. Don't be in too much of a hurry to write epitaphs.

debosky:

I won't even debate this grammatical nonsense - if the side has 'mostly what we NEED' then it should be good enough to challenge (if not win) the league and we are far off even making the top 6 at the moment.

Keep fooling yourself - keep waiting for summer windows that end in disappointment.

Last seasons didn't, for the first time in a long while, Arsenal bought to replace departing players and didn't promote. I see that as the beginning of a new trend but it still does not mean going out and splashing money stupidly.
I will back a manager who has kept us in the top 4 for 14 years on the lowest net transfer spend in the current PL over any pundit(s) who do not have to account for a penny of the stupid buys they recommend.

debosky:

If you take a holistic view, they did overtake us last season - they did far better than us in the CL and only finished one spot below us in the league.

I'm not sure about doing far better than us in the UCL, the best judge of a squad's strength is in their League finish.

debosky:

They've been focused on the EPL for years without going above us, so if they are managing to do it now then something has changed. Unfortunately you seem blind to the fact and keep reciting history when things are changing before your very eyes.

I don't deny something has changed. They've been investing more money into their squad than we have, that much is clear from the figures I gave earlier.
Infact, the 2006 to 2011 figures are even more troubling as there is now a differential of about 20m per season in squad transfers between Arsenal and Spurs.
I refer to history only as regards to supporting the manager's track record and to show that this is really nothing new. They also came close to us in 05/06 season and subsequently fell away and I see no reason why they won't again even if it takes longer to occur this time.

debosky:

And you're oblivious to the fact that the present can truncate any future you're thinking of? If there's a fan revolt and the £100m becomes £70m do you know what that does to Arsenal? Honestly I hope you don't work with other people's money with this type of thinking.
The end of the season isn't far off and we'll see.

Forget about fans falling away, that is a none starter. The data available doesn't back a calamity that the club can't recover from very quickly. However it will set the club back no matter how little it is and no one wants that obviously.
And that stuff about other people's money is a question you should be asking yourself. No club has been better financially managed than Arsenal in the PL over the past decade. That is fact and not opinion.

Hardunnii:

@duduspace
pls save your lecture, we have been waiting for the future for the past 6yrs, when is it gonna come?? 2090 whether you admit it or not the current tottenham squad is better than ours now, thats why they are far above us in the league. wenger is just clueless, i dnt know how you want to compete with players like ramsey, walcott(cold n hot, mostly cold), jekinson, santos, arteta e.t.c these are just ok players. we need quality and dominants players and not for the future players. well lets hope we will make europa league

I thought the longer it takes, the more enjoyable it is.  
Seriously, I expected a change over the last summer when it came, it was a little bit late and too little.

I don't know about waiting for the past 6 years o, we've been taking too little steps forward and too many backwards and not all of them have been self inflicted.
I said at the beginning of the season, the best any Arsenal fan can hope for this season is a top 4 finish and I still stick by that assertion.

If the board is satisfied with that when it was visible at the start of the season, why are y'all troubling yourselves?  
When I see an arsenal team poised to win the league, I'll start to worry and get mad about performances.

Y'all can't say Arsene lied to you this season cos he's never said this team was capable of anything beyond trying for a top 4 finish. Infact, if I recall he said top 4 shouldn't be taken for granted  

I only get mad about Arsene's tweaking of his personel this season if I disagree with it. For example I am glad he is now playing Ox and chucked Arshavin where he deserves to be but in addition, he should do the following:

1. Aaron Ramsey should be sent to the bench for a while or at least subbed a lot earlier when he is not performing, he is carrying too much for a player in his first full season in the top flight and the Cesc role is not functioning as well as it should be.
2. When Gervinho gets back, Theo should also be sent to the bench ASAP. In addition, he should be told that he is not worth the 90k per week he is asking for and if he doesn't accept what we're offering, sold to the highest bidder with the money obtained used to buy Scot Sinclair. (That was a bit of a rant, but you do get my drift.  ).

Apart from the above, I'm just chilling and praying we make top 4 at the end of the season, then looking forward to what the board will do in the summer, maybe the belt tightening will be loosened a bit as our financial situation is now much better in my opinion. Whatever we do in the summer however, topmost priority is to keep RVP no matter how much he is asking for, it is deserved.

Believe me when I say that whatever will happen is not going to be dictated by the noise anyone makes or does not make. This board knows what they are doing and their minds aren't going to be changed that easily.  I dare say that they are even ready to go to Europa if need be, however I'm not sure Arsene will be willing to follow them in that.

Assuming the posture of a shrink.

Clears throat.

Erm @OP

How many bottles of alcohol did yu empty before you went to bed? 

debosky:

Interesting - you say the squad is not good enough and you say this:

Make up your mind and stop flip-flopping.

Mostly have, and good enough aint the same thing even if taken literaly.
Semantically, my point has been that what we need would be better obtained in the summer window.

debosky:

It is not held up as a model of success, but it shows how far back we have fallen that Tottenham are now doing better than us with a lower wage bill. Previously the excuse was we are being outspent - so if Tottenham is now outperforming us then what excuse is left?

Every dog has its day, and yes Tottenham is a club of dogs cocks. 
It is wrong to compare Tottenham with us, that is my whole point. They were also compared with us 2 seasons ago and were expected to overtake us last season isn't that so?
Even this season, they've exited the Europa league quickly, CC quickly e.t.c and have always been focussed on the PL so I'm not too surprised they are ahead of us in the PL presently.
Personally, i think Tottenham are actually following the Arsenal blueprint, viz-a-viz their proposed stadium but that is a discussion for another day.

debosky:

You don't even get the point - the striker comment is symptomatic of a deficient squad. Instead of looking at fixing that, you're content to play perpetual catchup while the likes of Tottenham go past us. Instead of getting ahead of the curve for once, we are dilly dallying.

Arsenal have always been ahead of the curve in more ways than one, Our greatest strength is also occasionally our Achille's heel. People don't see it now but they shall soon see it. I've never once feared for Arsenal's future, the foundations are so strong it really can't fail. Its the present that worries me.
The only thing that can make Tottenham ever overtake Arsenal is another Abu Dhabi type takeover. 

Okay Kay-dee, care to compare notes about Arsenal and Spurs progress in a years time? 
Seriously, I'll put it on my siggy for the next 365 days. 
Now that you mention it, could some advance info about Wilshere have been responsible for Eisfeld's signing?

Wilshere, new stress fracture haba?
And we're all blaming Arsene for being careful with Ox? The number of games these small boys are playing is too much. Even Goetze too has a stress fracture of the pubic bone now.

debosky:

Don't be daft - Spurs is a side issue here - the main issue is that Arsenal fans like you think having a has-been team that's struggling to be in the top 5 as being good enough.

Seriously Debo, you haven't been listening to me at all? the squad we have at present is not good enough to win the PL which is why I'm not so hard on them. We are agreed that Spurs is a side issue but it riles me that Arsenal fans are now holding up Tottenham as a model of success when everything else indicates otherwise.
At least, show some respect and compare us with the Manures and Money miss road guys naa.

debosky:

The season before we would've had a chance of winning the league if we got a striker in January - that's the point. This endless waiting for players that ensures we stagnate instead of advancing. Would it kill this club to move ahead of the game for once and not always be hoping for something in the distant future?
So stealing Park while on a medical at Lille is not a panic buy? Stop lying to yourself.

I'm not so sure about that Striker thing, I'm almost sure our squad depth would still have found us out one way or the other as its difficult to hide squad deficiencies over a season but its all maybes now.
Why are you now speaking as if Arsene hasn't been known for opportunism in the past.  Is Park's signing in all seriousness more opportunistic  than Silvestre's signing which wasn't forced? 

4llerbuntu:

Debosky for president !!!

u too dey make sense, have u suddenly acquired a new woman who is injecting you with some TLC shots daily?

as for DUDU, you are ON YOUR OWN with all this your grammer.    guy admit naw, u nor dey make sense with this arguments. how can u say the club is not going backwards?

Why I go dey fear to stand alone? na who be the person wey escort you come this world? abi more importantly, you sef escort somebody come this world?  

4llerbuntu:


even my 90 yr old grandma knows that things are different and worse with arsenal merely by watching us when arsenal have a match.
and she recently advised us to change to the other club that they shout about (utd   eeewww) simply because she is tired of pacifying her grandchildren when they start snapping and getting irritable just cos they lost again  

Ehya, tell the pikins to grow up. No ones wins always in the real world. The rich also cry.  
By the way, give my regards to Mama o, I'm sure she would have been able to give a better response to my previous monetary analysis that got y'all quiet. 

4llerbuntu:

tottenham have a simple target, achieve CL footy. can you say that they are not doing their best to achieve that?

what is arsenal's target?  what is/has arsenal done to ensure that target is met?  do you think the what ever efforts you think are made is apparent/enough to achieve the target?

if you were to compare arsenal with tottenham, blinkers off, which of the two clubs would you say has improved in the last four years?  former title chaser arsenal, or former also rans mid-table tottenham?

Good luck to Tottenham, If that is the depth of their ambition, then they are doing good with it and can pat themselves on the back but from where I stand, Arsenal have delivered that same ambition uninterrupted for 14 years so I consider it a minor achievement.

Arsenal's first ambition is simple, be self sustaining and not needing to depend on benefactor handouts. Listen well to what the leadership has been vocal about for the past 3 or so years. Need I say that we are well on our way towards acheiving that.

As to your question about who has improved most, in the last 4 years Tottenham has not finished ahead of Arsenal so go figure. Aston Villa, Everton and Liverpool have also been said to have caught up with Arsenal in the recent past, we know where they are now. The salient question is not about who has improved most over the past  4 years, it is about who is able to sustain that improvement over the next 4 years.

4llerbuntu:

OK, good. therefore, to your mind, in all honesty, is Chamakh a decent replacement for VP this season? if the striking was suddenly and unfortunately left to chamakh, what do u estimate his performances to be like?

is there something wrong with filling a very pressing need instead of building castles in the air for mythical world class players in the future?

ironically, for a selling club you talk up this your youth setup thingy a bit too much. everyone knows you are only going to sell the so called developed players the moment they hit superstar status. when will arsenal ever reap the reward of this youth policy sef?

Not necessarily as circumstances differ, Cesc did give 8 years service to Arsenal and if there had been enough money to build a good enough team around him last season, he could have won something with us before leaving. We are not necessarily losing out on trophies because we're building players, we've become a top 4 staple despite not investing as much as those around us, and how have we done that? by the same player building that y'all are deriding.
You do realise that it might have been Arsenal missing out on their 2nd UCL season if we were the ones who bought Torres for 25m when we bought Adebayor for 7m?

debosky:

The fact remains that they've held on to ALL their top stars despite losing out on the CL. Arsenal fans cannot boast of being able to do so - people are already talking of RVP leaving. . . .

If you opened your eyes too you'd realise Saha is on a fixed term 6 month deal. Parker is 30, but his understudies Huddlestone and Sandro are young as well. So there's nothing worth criticizing in either signing for the Scum. I don't see any difference between Parker and Arteta.

The way Lupoli, Owusu-Abeiye, Bischoff, Aliadiere, and others have been no?

We've only been able to remain in the CL because we had a head start on others in terms of scouting players which has now been lost completely.

Our scouting network is still doing very well and our youth system is really bringing players through right now so I don't get the last part of this. And I didn't criticize Tottenham's purchases (they know better what their strategy is and how they intend to achieve their aims) all I've said is that it is wrong to suddenly start holding Tottenham as the beacon of progress that Arsenal isn't when history tells us otherwise.

debosky:

Just stop there with your mediocre thinking - what we have now will most likely not make 4th and you say we have what we have? Others are fighting for the title and you're saying this nonsense?

Hold on to your grandiose thinking and keep building your castles in the air. I hear its very bad for the heart and generally makes people barmy.

debosky:

Newsflash: We've been moving backwards every season since 2006. When will this 'move forward' happen? Abeg save your empty jargon for someone else - how is staring failure in the face and folding your arms consolidation? Or does consolidation now mean preparing to fail?

There goes your oversimplification again, we missed the PL by just 4 points in the 07/08 season. Yes we've see-sawed but you can't say we've not performed better than Tottenham yu're now suddenly fluttering your eye-lids at. Are you a man-LovePeddler?

debosky:

The same way we waited for Chamakh and he's been uber excellent for us this season? The same way we excellently managed our summer without making panic buys? The same way we bought Park for £3m and he's been a revelation?

Don't know what this is about Debo, you were one of Chamakh's greatest supporters last season, why are you suddenly denouncing him? mind you, Chamakh was one of the major reasons we made top 4 last season cos he filled in well during RVP's absence in the earlier part of the season when we actually had a good run. And there is really nothing to say Park still won't be a revelation.
We did not make panic buys in summer, Arteta is worth every penny we paid for him and so is Per. Panic buying is when you pay over the odds for Gary Cahill just cos his country people want him at Arsenal.

proudly9ja:

So if a guy leaves school A to sit for WAEC at school B, will you say he's a product of school A or B?

I don't like Freeman's comments too but as far as I know, there's no one better than him at youth level now, just as there was noone better than JET at that level before we sold him and they are both English. Maybe we prefer the foreign guys at youth level because its easier to sell them off (especially to foreign clubs) and make money from them? Not sure this is the case, just wondering.

I agree as per Lansbury. He may not make it at Arsenal but he's the kind of player I think we need. Works hard in the midfield and can move from box to box. If he doesnt make it at ours, he'l make it somewhere else

That is a matter of opinion, The facts are that he went to both schools and graduated from School B.
I don't see anything wrong in saying that he benefitted from both schools, those who like to think and argue in binary might choose to disagree.
They are welcomed to their opinion.

I disagree that there is none better than Freeman at youth level. Afobe is better (IMO), younger and English as well before we even start to speak of Joel Campbell and Wellington (who are not french as people quickly forget when they build their conspiracy theories).

Definitely, Lansbury is elite in terms of English player standards . He may still make it though, there is an element of luck in all these and he does himself no harm with his performances everywhere he goes.