debosky:

It's not marketing - it's making a stick for your own back when things go wrong. Everton is straight with their fans and their support does not dwindle even when players aren't bought - the opposite is happening with Arsenal.

It is still marketing, nothing ventured nothing gained. Like some of those small girls you lie (market yourself) to will give you a downright nasty dressing down while some will be quite glad to bump pelvises with you. You know it and I know it that someone somewhere is lying to somebody at any given point in time.
And I don't really know any club that comes out to talk about their finances beyond an annual financial statement, they normally expect people to do the maths on their own subsequently over time. It would be oversimplification to say that Arsenal fans are not as realistic as Everton fans, I rather think its the fact that it is more difficult to adjust to a lower stature when you've been used to lofty heights. Everton have only been in the UCL about once in 10 years for example. He that is down needs fear no fall.

debosky:

It's not a math issue, it's a promise vs expectation issue. The stadium was built to increase funds to compete in the transfer market. If you are NOT competitive/active in the transfer market then there is a valid questioning of where the stadium revenue is going to, especially as that is not the only source of revenue available.

Where that logic falls flat on its face is in the fact that the Stadium did not fall down from heaven and most people forget there is still a mortgage being paid for. You and I know its in the commercials where we are lacking but even if we don't agree on the escape mechanism for our financial bonds, we at least know the end date for those constraints (2013/2014). If most people can't be bothered to understand those details, at least you Know and can adjust your expectation accordingly while hoping it ultimately filters down at some point.
There are points of opinion and then there are points of fact, it is very easy to muddle up the two in discussions particularly about arsenal where its much easier to just say things like "You've not won anything for x years" like some self styled animals on this thread and that is what most of the journalists are doing. Those facts are available to anyone who takes the time to find them out which is what I would expect of journalists.

debosky:

There you go defending rubbish - they are being careful by ensuring that our season is DEFINITELY finished if RVP cops an injury? Seriously? So there's no striker in the whole of Europe that they could have brought in to take some load off RVP? Is that what being careful means these days? Careful means increasing our chances of NOT qualifying for the CL by failing to sign the necessary players?

We have Chamakh and we have Henry for sometime. Are we buying cos we really need another player or we are buying just to pretend that we've really done something when we've done nothing?

debosky:

At least they keep their best players when they get knocked out of the CL - even remaining in the CL can't keep our best players here. It is a disgrace when Tottenham can hold on to quality players while Arsenal can't, but our wage bill is larger.

Not really, their holding on to players is a recent trend and might have something to do with their stadium plans. In the past, they were Manure's feeder club selling off players like Berbatov and Carrick in their prime to Manure.

debosky:

Oh but signing and playing a 35 year old Henry is the right way to prepare for the future right? Care to remind me how old Arteta was when we signed him for FIVE years in August? Hypocritical nonsense of the highest order.

Even you pointed out in an earlier post that Henry has a fixed term, he is not bought permanently. He will even struggle to make more than 8 appearances overall for us. He was brought in to lift the dressing room and to give the youngsters a glimpse of what they can aspire to. Arteta is 29 and is a gap filler we still have Jack and Rambo who are 21 and under in the same MF with Song who is still below 25.

debosky:

Just like Galindo, Wellington, Botelho,  Vela, Jon Toral and the hordes of youth players we have 'could be a coup in the future'. Just like Ebecilio, Ozyakhup and others can be a 'coup in the future'. Just like Joel Campbell and Ryo Miyachi could be a cop for the future. When we will start looking at the guys we NEED NOW?

Oh yes they can be just like Cesc, RVP, Song and Nasri have been, and that is why we've been able to remain in the UCL that long and Tottenham haven't and why we are not hiding our financial transactions in offshore accounts so that people don't really have a good picture of our financial standing.
We mostly have what we need now, just adjusting to losing 2 top notch talent over the summer and struggling a bit with injuries. Atimes, to move forward, you have to consolidate. We will consolidate and move forward. We have always done and I see no reason why we shouldn't now.
I'd prefer we hold on to the money for the summer and make solid purchases where we are lacking rather than these panic buys.
For example, I'd rather we wait and pay 15m for Podolski over the summer than pay 5m now for Saha when Chamakh will be back in a few days and Henry can fill in when needed like in the FA cup.

proudly9ja:

Ox and Jenkinson did not develop from our youth team. They were bought to play for the first team so they don't count. Frimpong IMO will be back up for Song eventually but Coquelin and Lansbury play a different role to Frimpong. In our 4-3-3 formation, Coq and Lansbury play the same role as Jack although they are more suited to Arteta's direct with no flair kind of football. If we don't buy a midfielder, I expect Lansbury to stay. Coquelin has an edge because he is versatile. He has shown that we can rely on him for LB, RB and midfield positions. I maintain that Ild rather play him at RB ahead of Jenkinson.

BTW, Frimpong is on loan at Wolves already. Didn't you hear Petrov broke his leg when he kicked Frimpong in the face last week? (jokes)

As for Olsson, Im waiting to see him in the reserves but I have high hopes for him.

They do count, cos they still have to be integrated and their progress monitored. That is the sore point between Arsene and Fans on Ox. While a lot of us feel the boy should be thrusted in, Arsene believes he still has to be brought in gradually.
They were bought cos they were seen as upgrades over what we have progressing through at present. Its like someone transferring at SSS3 to come and do WAEC or NECO at another school.

You would have noticed that our MF players are not actually being developed for particular roles. There is a level of technical ability being maintained and then physical Xteristics determine where you end up like Song, the reason why Lansbury will likely get sold is that he is just so far down the ladder at present. Except something unusual hapepens to hand him a chance which he grabs with both hands like Flamini.

As much as I liked Freeman, I hate it when players start making statements referring to Nationality like he has done. Maybe that is why he ended up getting sold early. I don't think it is good when players think they have a right to become players for Arsenal only cos they're English. If someone is available who is better than you and not English, then it is right that that person plays ahead of you.
I'm so happy that we at least have Gibbs, Wilshere and Ox. This English parapo thing against Arsene is never nice to see (particularly in the North of England as I see it everyday). And they do get into the heads of some of those players like Bentley and this Freeman boy.

debosky:

Partly, but there is some substance to the comment, especially upfront. If you're scared of being stuck with too many players, do targeted loan deals not just the Henry for a few weeks type.

In general the North London Scum have a more usable squad than we do - we are carrying way too many crocks/flops while they at least attempt to freshen things up and provide a bit more competition. While that's no guarantee of success, it shows an intent to improve while we appear to be stagnating. We'll know the truth in 4 months or so.

As for the Einsfeld lad, he's a signing for next season - more for the 'future' and nothing for the present. Stockpiling young mobile midfielders while we don't have a spare striker to piss on.

Transfer window is over - time to back the team 100%. If they fall short, the heat will be on Arsene in the summer.

Abeg, you people should stop all this Tottenham comparison, y'all are getting emo like Ritchie pointed out. Is there an outbreak of hormonal imbalance amongst Arsenal fans?  The best Tottenham can do with all these buys is to get UCL for one season and then go back to default position. 
Buying and playing 30 year olds like Saha and Parker is not the right way to prepare for the future, let us not forget that fact.

I don't know much about this Eidsfield boy, but those stats look good even though allowance must be made that they are from U19 level (6 goals and 6 assists in 12 games is quite consistent), seems a bit like an Amaury Bischoff type purchase to me, only that we are giving him a long term contract and not a single season so its less of a gamble and more long term. If he's up to 80% of what Goetze is as a player though, it could be a coup in the future.

naijababe:

Dudu, you are not helping o, if i gave my boss your kinda explanation for non performance and not improving my performance, I'd have out of a job a long time ago.

My sweet, but your boss aint sending you to a gunfight with a matchstick like the board is doing to Arsene is he? if he is, just inbox me his address and then stay glued to BBC for Breaking news. 

naijababe:

The board will continue paying Wenger to tell us the stories they want while hiding the truth. If it all falls apart and Wenger gets kicked out or 'forced' to spend the available cash (if any), then we'll see the true situation of things and set our expectations accordingly.

Right now all we have is Wenger's spin - and I've stopped believing that for 4 seasons and the board refuses to come clean either.

Its called marketing Debo, someone somewhere is always spinning something to some other people somewhere to make money. 
But seriously, I laugh when people (mostly english journalists) ask where all the money made at the stadium goes into (as if they don't already know)
The Stadium makes 100m per season, but the wage bill is 124m, I mean are Journalist's understanding of mathematics that bad? 

And the powder is dry but they've got to be careful how and when they use it I think.

dipo+:

Did y'all notice that wonderkid (Bannan or so) that came on for Villa towards the end of yesterday's FA cup game? The kid launched some long balls into our defence that really send shivers down.

Bannan na old papa (22 or so) he came through about the same time as Albrighton and Delfouneso in the Villa setup. I remember him well as that Villa set used to beat the Wilshere generation U18s silly in those days.

Some players come at the wrong time Proudly and Arsene still values experience a lot, just that he is hamstrung financially.

He had to let Nordtveit go ultimately because he couldn't hang around for one more year. Last season, Arsene believed he had a good enough team to win things (and they weren't far away). He probably felt it was better to keep Eboue than to put the pressure on Nordtveit last season particularly when Nordtveit is actually a CB in the making, with hindsight maybe he should have gone with youth. After Eboue left, the space opened up for an understudy hence why Jenkinson was bought.

Lansbury will likely be sold. The 3 young players planned for transitioning into the first team this season are Coquelin/Ox/Jenkinson and probably Ryo and Benik. Frimpong/Miquel/Yennaris have only come in due to injury and were earmarked for loans and fleeting appearances. Coquelin and Frimpong have always been preferred to Lansbury centrally (even in the double winning youth team) despite being a bit younger.

Frimpong might still go for yet another loan spell but he will get an opportunity to stake a claim next season when the usual round of injury hits.  
Benik might have missed his opportunity this season as Joel Campbell will get International Clearance next season and those 2 look to be in the same mould.

The Under 18s don't count at all for now, except there is a Cesc/Wilshere class talent in there who just can't be held back. I like Olsson, but he is pretty light weight and hasn't even clocked 17 yet.

proudly9ja:

Thank God Sagna is back. Maybe we can rotate the LB position between Coquelin and Miguel and the CB position between Per, Kos and TV5 depending on opposition.

BTW, I feel so sorry for Park. Why we buy that guy if we are not going to use him? Today, we could have brought him in instead of Titi TBH. Na real ridicule we dey ridicule the guy. Chamakh will be back soon meaning no space for Park in the team.
Dudu is obsessed by our youth team that's why noone (maybe except me  ) listens to him whenever he suggests someone from the youth team.

BTW @dudu, there's a one time fav youth player of mine who's now scoring like no man biz for Celtic - Anthony Stokes. His case like that of JET is one I really don't get. At 18 he was banging in the goals at Falkirk scoring 16 in 18 games and then we sold him the following year. He is 24 now and scoring for Scottish Champions, Celtics, 17 in 31 games already this season. I admit that you win some and lose some but it seems we hardly get it right with the strikers in the youth team.

I don't know about obsession o, but that is the strategy the club has embarked upon, but Debo is too blind to see it.  . I can see it and I've embraced it. I said it on here 2 years ago that Arsenal became a selling club right about the end of the Invincibles era but they said I was lying.  
That is why the board will want Arsene around for a while cos he is the one with a good track record at doing it. Only a dumbo  would kill the goose laying the golden egg (from the board's perspective and not most fans).

Stokes is not as good as Bendtner, even right now will at best be a backup striker, do you honestly believe he is better than Park? don't forget requirements are really high at Arsenal (except for favoured people like Theo) who is one of the few ones I disagree with Arsene over. We will still lose a lot of good players because the level of quality the Academy is producing now has gone up a notch. I see players like Ozyakup and Ebecilio and I wonder where they will end up.

The generation that got fast tracked at Arsenal was the Cesc/Denilson/Diaby/Clichy generation and most of them got burnt badly cos too much was expected of them by fans at an early age due to no fault of theirs. Arsene is trying so hard not to repeat that same problem so he is trying to bring in younger players more gradually and that is the reason why he still wants to keep the likes of Rosicky and Arshavin around.

We will still lose a good number of them cos the 25 man squad rule further limits who we can keep.

By the way, did anyone see that Aubmeyang guy who plays for Gabon in the ANC? anyone want to wager that chap won't end up in a UCL club within the next 2 years?  

What is this I hear about contract negotiations with Theo? The only contract negotiation I want to hear is RVP. If he is demanding 500k per week, they must give him. 

And why the hell doesn't Gervinho sell out Cote D'Ivoire like Ba and Cisse have sold out Senegal for a quick return to their club?

4llerbuntu:

errm in case some of you guys haven't noticed, the "good" footie is a long gone mirage.

i havent seen that in a long while now, so much that even the useless english press have forgotten their pet "tippy tappy" phrase when describing arsenal.


as far as i know dudu is in denial. i fully expect him to recover by nexy year just like debo has done  


truth be told, it will not help arsenal at all to finish in top 4, neither do i want to watch europa league. therefore i fully support the current push to loose as many games as possible.!

Your own don pass denial, how does it help any club to finish in a lower position with a financial difference of about 25m when that club is already struggling with its peers when it comes to spending?  
I might be wrong o but I don't think Debo will join you to wish that Arsenal miss out on a top 4 finish.

kay_pumpin:

Yawwwnnnnns.

Where is slimshay these days?

Was just about asking o, I miss am nor be small. Trust him to defuse the tension on the board.
Are you back?

naijababe:

Thread title not quite apt anymore. I hope i wont be supporting a division two Arsenal fc a few years from now  . Abeg dudu, enough of the postulations jo

Sweetie pie  The thread title is great and will definitely happen.
Hope springs eternal my dear, a run of 4 wins and the tune will change again. For most gunners, Arsenal is either in dire straits or wonderland. You peeps don't do middle ground well. 
The truth about the club is evident in those figures and I don't believe in putting my mouth where my money aint.

@proudly
If Kagame is really serious, let him go and buy the club like the Arab people and run it as he wishes jare. 

Newcastle fans were making noise all over the place 2/3 seasons ago but when they knew Ashley wouldn't change, they kept quiet. They went into the Championship and are back again but is anyone of them complaining now?
Blackburn Rovers fans did the same earlier with Steve Kean thinking they could force him out  but Venkys stuck to their guns and now they've all mellowed.
I have never seen a fan revolt succeed where the board have stuck to their guns except if the manager gets fed up and walks and I'm not so sure that would be the best for Arsenal.

I am just praying for a top four finish so we can regroup over the summer, I'd advise all Arsenal fans do the same.

Meanwhile, your boy is doing his best to prove me wrong o, he made a hat-trick of assists midweek for Stevenage. I'm beginning to wonder if we have some kinda buy-back clause in the deal that took him there.
I'm also sensing some kinda link up between Stevenage and Arsenal and I hope it bodes well for our youth development. Arsenal/Kroenke's influence seems to be growing there.

Congratulations Alekside. Other fans should start coming back now.

alekside:

^^^Thanx 4 helping us wake dis thread

Honestly, Liverpool is a big club. Y'all had a vibrant community here and shouldn't let it die just cos yu're going through a drought.
True fans stick by their club through thick and thin.
What happened to Illusion2, if I'd known he was lonely in this thread, I'd have spent more time here and not rubbed it in too much.

Personally, even though I think you payed a bit too much for Jordan Henderson, the boy is coming along nicely.

mbulela:

this question requires solemn meditation.

Ohm shanti Ohm.

Idowuogbo:

Oyinbo Mandela na only 1 Fela dey o,wot exactly are u driving act? No matter how much u try to style it out u can't cover up who u are.I continue 2 read and it seems u have added a lil twist to ur style of writing,hmmmm even if u decide to change fonts dat I have noticed earlier still shines tru notin u do changes jack.Dude b tru to yourself and ur roots dats all I gat to say.

Peace!

@UKBobo, what the hell is this about? why should you be in denial of your origins. Everyone knows you can't choose how, who or where you're born naa, it is what you do with yourself subsequently that defines you so why the pretence?

I must say that your posts usually do make a lot of sense but stop the pretence and come clean, lets forget about this thing jare, you know we Nigerians are very forgiving.

I couldn't help but laugh at this:

[Quote]
[size=14pt]Lo! Behold the future[/size]

By Leopold Mendacious

I know a lot of fans are feeling kinda bad about the club and the manager right now. If only we knew how it was gonna pan out. But no-one can tell the future, right?

Wrong!

I’ve had in my possession for a while a scroll which dates to the same time as the Dead Sea ones. It was discovered under the floorboards of a bedsit in Kilburn.

It tells us all about Arsenal before Arsenal was even invented!

I got it from Peter Frampton in return for a spinet I sorted out for his keyboard player for his ’74 tour.

It’s been validated by scholars and Rod Stewart said he ‘reckons it’s pukka’ so here it is:

“And Lo, the leader didst appear before the people, and his name was Professor, or one who speaks the truth.

And the people didst flock unto him, for upon his head was a magic hat. And yea, he did deliver unto them a double, and there was much rejoicing throughout the land.

And he looked upon his works, and they were good. But, lo, he decided he could do more and thus he looked into heart of the Rothman’s yearbook to find new peaks to conquer.

And so it came to pass that he didst assemble a team of much might and vigour. And they didst conquer all who came before them, verily like a steamroller flattening all in its path. And Invincibles was their name.

But even as their strength waxed mighty, the seeds of doom were finding purchase. For mighty warriors though they were, some amongst them had agents who dripped poison into their ears, whispering of riches and honour in other kingdoms.

And others of their number looked upon their knees and their ankles and saw that they had passed the flush of youth and were now poor, withered things. And the great leader didst sell them for gold to foolish men.

Yet, while his cloak was filled with gold, he didst not go to the slave market and buy new warriors. But instead the BOARD spake unto him and commanded him to give them the gold to buy a new temple.

And the people grew restless, but the leader didst go out amongst them and he spoke of a future he foresaw, where golden youths would play a passing game that passeth all understanding.

And the midfield would trianguleth the ball to one another in such a way that all who came before them would quail at their skills.

And the people were content at this time to believe the leader, and did hail the dawn of tippy tappy.

But mysterious are the ways of the Premier League, and it did come to pass that for many years a famine did fall upon the land, and the people did cry out to the BOARD and the leader for relief.

And the mighty cabinet of trophies that they had built in their new temple stood empty, and all gazed upon its emptiness and did wail and gnash their teeth.

And across the way their old temple stood ruined and desecrated, and it seemed to the people as if their spirit had evaporatedeth into the sky above the road of Holloway.

And the leader did look upon his creation and he thought unto himself that he could do with a bit of mercurial talent

And so he offered unto the people a magician from the East.

And the people rejoiced, for this magician was short in stature but mighty in spirit, and looketh like the Owl who abideth in the barn, or at a sanctuary.

And he didst make himself beloved of the people early doors by going to the mighty fortress of the reds and smiting them four times.

But he was a false prophet and flattereth to deceiveth. And he didst grow increasing fat, yea, as doth the pig before slaughter, and his work-rate appallethed all who looked upon it.

And things went from bad to worseth, as the boy king called FABREGAS decided to forsake the leader and return to his homeland. For his very bones and blood made him do it, said his new teammates.

And it came to pass that the leader didst take his team to the rainy city of the north, where his great enemy dwelt amongst his hideous horde.

And his enemy dealt unto the leader a right spanking, smiting his team eight grievous blows. And he retuned to the new temple chastened, as like the hound with its tail betweeneth its legs.

And the leader didst cast around him for solace, but he foundeth that people grew restive and no longer heeded his entreaties.

And so he offered unto the people an Ox, and the people were once again happy,

But then the leader took the Ox from them and gave them the Owl and the people wailed and did rend their garments.

And yea, they didst flock unto Twitter to decry the leader with intemperate violence.

And the leader didst dash his vessel of water upon the ground and thought unto himself, these people are fickle and like a child. For did I not prophesy that their appetite for sausage would be spoiled by caviar?

But the leader stucketh to his guns, and the BOARD stucketh by him, for they kneweth when they were on to a good thing.

For what profiteth a board if they sack their manager who saveth them money?

And lo, the leader didst prophecy that his players would return from their ailments, and verily they would be Like a New Signing.

And it came to pass, and results did improve mightily, and the team stringeth back-to-back wins together.

And lo, they reached the promised land of fourth place and the people rejoiced. For they had no sense of shame, nor of perspective, and thought not of their previous anger with the leader.

And the leader didst celebrate too, and to show his pleasure he brought unto the club two 13 year old Peruvians around which to build for the future.

And things went on as they had been, yea, even until the end of days.”
[/quote]

However, for the first time in a long while, the comfort of a top 4 finish might even be denied.

Back to the match against Manure, the team was better than its performance on the day. Like Arsene usually says, confidence is quick to depart but slow to build. We lost the match because a lot of our players were already defeated in their minds before they even stepped on the pitch.
Primary amongst this is our MF, Ramsey seemed to be in awe of his great compatriot and I've now seen Song not stand up to the occasion for the second time, the first was against Birmingham in the CC final and I excused him due to fatigue for that.

I almost felt like giving Ramsey a slap when he got the yellow card against Giggs by holding on to him like a baby, I mean, here is a guy old enough to be your father and you can't even try to run him ragged all over the pitch but ended up giving dodgy passes and wasting time on the ball all through the first half? Abeg, if Arsene intends to get a player like Yann M'vila or Gourcuff for the summer, the board might do well to release the money and get him right away if available. We need another quality body in that MF and we are losing a lot by giving the 'Cesc' role to Ramsey. At this stage of the season, Cesc would be in double digits in terms of assists and goals already but Ramsey is currently behind Song who plays deeper.

The less said of JD, the better but players like Koscielny and Ox were immense on the day. They deserve a lot of credit for their performance as they didn't hide but tried to drive the team forward.

I thought so at the time that they shouldn't have killed the man.
If he were alive and in prison, he could still be voice of reason. By killing him, they drove his supporters to desperation.
That is the difference between Libya and South Africa. If all the Apartheid whites had been killed by Mandela, South Africa would still be without peace today.

4llerbuntu:

secondly, @ duduspace, give this up.    if in a group of one million all except 1 person realises whats gwan then that 1 has to be daft.   wenger is supposed to be smart.
the practical implication of all this your excuses is that he is not smart enough for the job!!!
the scenario u keep painting makes absolutely no sense!

This statement is a fallacy 4ller.
If it were true, significant theories and progress that have made our lives better would be made by 'everybody' and not certain 'individuals'.
Issues such as this should be discussed and argued on fact based assertions and not on political or majority support particularly when the so called majority is as fickle as the wind and only reach a crescendo when the team loses. 

debosky:

Going all the way back to 2003 is unrealistic - the EPL is little or nothing like it was back then. A more reasonable analysis in this case would  be to compare over the period that Redknapp has been at Tottenham till date. 2008 to 2011 would be a more rational comparison. Only comparing to Fergie makes sense going that far back.

Broadly true, I did allude to that and I'll be glad if you can go one step further than me and supply that data.  .
What I abhor is plucking figures out of the air and stating them as if they were fact.
If you are confident that there will be a wide variation in outcome by varying the sample space, then do take the time to do it, I'm sure you'll end up even more surprised at what you'll find cos I can almost bet that it would show Arsene in an even better light.

r231:

more like banana look alike from china

Bros yu sef dey do China levels like moi
be careful with credit card and co o, I don talk my own. Person wey nor get better juju no suppose dey chop cockroach.

debosky:

Please tell me how much Spurs has spent compared to Arsenal on wages + transfer in the last 2 seasons before making this regular excuse.

Since you asked for it, here it comes 
I did a little oversabi and actually reviewed the Top 6 as presently constituted (I'm not sure who is 6th in Liverpool or Newcastle). 
I also did for 2003 to 2011 rather than the last 2 seasons as asked for two major reasons:

1. I couldn't isolate the data for the past 2 seasons
2. I believe Arsene should be judged over as large a period of his tenure as possible (Choosing to judge him in the long term when comparing Arsenal to Manure and then judging him in the short term with Tottenham who had a solitary UCL appearance in 14 years is rigging in my opinion) 

Last reported Wage Bill (For the 2010/2011 season)

City      £173.9m
Chelsea   £172.5m
Manure    £152.9m
Liverpool £124.4m  (Don't have current data but in the previous year when our wage bill was 111, theirs was 114)
Arsenal   £124.4m
Tottenham   £91 m



Net Transfer Spending 2003 - 2011

Chelsea    £443,500,000
City       £425,145,00
Liverpool  £136,400,000
Tottenham  £113,150,000
Manure      £90,550,000
Arsenal    -£24,270,000


Net Transfer Spending per Season  2003 - 2011

Chelsea   £55,437,500
City      £53,143,125
Liverpool £17,050,000
Tottenham £14,143,750
Manure    £11,318,750
Arsenal   -£3,033,750 


Doing some quick and dirty accounting which in all honesty doesn't really give much insight about anything (add the net transfer spending per season to the wage bill) would give the following spend per season:

Chelsea   227.9m
City      227m
Manure    164.2m
Liverpool 141.4
Arsenal   121m
Tottenham 105m


Main point to Note:

From 2003 till now, All the other clubs have net investment into players for their team while Arsenal has actually taken money out of the team.

Questions:

1. What do these monetary Net transfer values translate to in terms of the youth policy?

Answer: We have grown and sold more players from within than buying from without while virtually ever other club has bought from the outside to improve their team. Or think of it this way, while Liverpool have added a player worth 17m to their club in purchases each year, we have sold a player worth 3 million each year between 2003 and 2011.

2. Why did we buck the trend from other clubs? Necessity from investment into the stadium? Arsene's whim? a dishonest board?

Answer: Frankly speaking, I do not know but I'll choose a mix of all the above but with most of it due to the stadium move as prior to that Arsenal's transfer policy was a lot similar to other clubs. You can pick yours but in doing so ask yourself what evidence you have to back up whatever option you choose.

3. In light of the above, has Arsene underperformed in the period under review?

Answer: In my opinion NO, other people's opinion are welcomed and I'm very interested in seeing other people's interpretation of statistical data and corrections and modifications to any errorneous data supplied.

Other Minor Points to Note:
1. City's spending has been concentrated within the past 3 years
2. Tottenham have not finished above Arsenal in the period under review
3. Arsenal have not finished outside of top 4 in the period under review
4. Since the wage bill is actually for last season, I think the review is only accurate for the period 2003 to 2011 particularly in the region 2009 to 2010 where the wage bill has varied little and not this season as a lot of things have happened since then in each of the clubs e.g. Nasri and Cesc moving. It is pertinent to point out that this season would ideally be accurately judged when the wage bills for this season and transfers are retrospectively examined.


Sources:

The Swiss Rambler: http://swissramble..com/2011/10/arsenals-finances-21-questions.html?utm_source=BP_recent
Transfer League: www.transferleague.co.uk

debosky:

There is absolutely no comparison with Barca. Even at their ‘worst’ they continued to renew their squad in TWO ways - youth and buying experience. That we think we are super geniuses who can do something no one else has been able to do is the ultimate sign of hubris. Until we move away from trying to do the impossible, failure is virtually guaranteed.

I don't think anyone would want to stay in the zone of not spending perpetually, like I said, the critical questions are HOW MUCH? and HOW LONG? when will the club determine that a tipping point has been reached? I personally think that was what Cesc was alluding to in one of his interviews when he was about leaving. At some point, the club will have to make a statement about not losing 'key' players. Wenger has paid lip service to it but so far has not been able to maintain that stance.
His whole body language during Nasri and Cesc's issue was of someone who didn't want them to go. Have you forgotten at a time he even said Nasri would wind down his contract and become a free agent?

debosky:

As long as they continue to spend they have a chance - we are a negative spending team trying to compete - it can NEVER work.

I don't think there is an intention to remain in a negative spending zone in perpetuity, that would be insane.

debosky:

The ‘early mover’ advantage that helped it work in the past with the Anelkas of this world is gone forever. Every club has scouts everywhere, every club has youth set ups.
It is impossible in the EPL - it may be slightly possible in the Bundesliga because you have only one dominant side that needs to mess up for that to happen. In England you need 4 or 5 sides to mess up.

Very true, but the fact that the club still has a net positive income on player transfers suggests its still working, definitely it is not a workable long term solution for a team with consistent title winning aspirations.
However, the club continues to insist on a self sustaining policy, I personally think they are prepared for whatever may come of it and that might not be good news for a lot of people.

debosky:

If you think we need to wait and see then you’re deluding yourself. If you’ve attended Arsenal games recently on general sale like I have, then you’ll understand. Almost every week I get an email telling me there are unsold tickets available for Arsenal games - LEAGUE GAMES not just CC and FA cup. I expect this to get worse as the season progresses as disillusionment sets in again. If it’s that easy to pick and choose games to attend, why buy a season ticket? After seeing the debacle of last summer, fans will wait and see if the club acts before renewing. With rumoured price increases, expect many more to forget about it as well.

Let's wait and see, more seats were actually made available for general sale after consultation with AISA on how to improve the atmosphere which supporters complained was not loud enough in supporting the team and it was taken from the allocation to season tickets. If that decision is deemed to be a failure, the board will simply make it available to the Season's ticket waiting list.
Only problem is that we will see more empty seats at the stadium which have been paid for by some rich people who don't mind missing the occasional game (when things are tough like now  ) but the club will take minimal hit in finances as most of their revenue come from Club level boxes anyway which some people have already paid up for the next 3 years. Even after 2 seasons out of UCL, Liverpool are still able to fill their stadium so its not the disaster yu're imagining it to be.
Mind you, I'm also a red member and I do recall some mails earlier during the summer of discontent about available tickets for games like Swansea at home but that largely disappeared when results improved.

The club got through delivering a 450m+ stadium and managed fine, i don't think a 25m hit for a year (The club makes roughly 100m per annum from gate takings and I'm assuming a worst case scenario of 25% of fans staying away, something I think is very unlikely) would be too difficult for them to handle if they can get the team back in the UCL at the first time of asking. If there are people who know how to cut their coats according to their material I think its this board.

I'm also waiting to see the effect of some so called secondary deals on our finances this year when the mid year results come in.

You nor dey shame? Munich should be ashamed they are not number 1 when they are top dog in such a weak league.

debosky:

While the latter statement is true, it is quite ridiculous to imply that Wenger is not in full agreement (if not the actual proponent) of the current policy. The board live off Wenger’s ability to keep the team in the top 4 so I daresay that if he goes and says we NEED to spend more or I walk, they will have more impetus to sort out the commercial deals for one and get more revenue. He himself is satisfied with the control he has - the board are too weak to do anything and he is too powerful to be removed by the weak board as things stand.

Food for thought, I don't necessarily concur but well thought out and time will tell what the real situation is. I read the updated version of "Arsenal: The making of a modern day superclub" during the summer and I got to learn of so many things I wasn't aware of previously.
Most people aren't aware of this when they blame Arsene for not buying CR9 and Ribery but what most people aren't aware of is that even the purchase of RVP was put forward by 6 months at the time cos Arsenal couldn't come up with just about 2.5m after we bought Reyes. I mean, its hard to believe that was how tight money was in the club at the time. With our posturing in the press, you would never know.

debosky:

Stop making a phool of yourself - this youth system WILL NEVER WORK. It CAN NEVER WORK. Barcelona with a ‘youth system’ spent over £20m on Alexis to improve their side without losing anything, while Arsenal’s squad is lower in quality than last season - who is fooling who?

Barcelona didn't get to where they were in a day, for long they were in the shadow of RM. I agree they weren't trophyless through out but then the environments aren't exactly the same. Who knew Manchester City would become what they've become now some season's back? and isn't both Chelsea and Manure currently struggling to come to terms with a higher spending team?
It is my opinion that Arsenal will reach a tipping point someday, that day I honestly do not know.
I also don't believe in using the word NEVER. I prefer the questions HOW LONG? and HOW MUCH? and I think they are more applicable here. 

debosky:

This is the thinking of losers - yes it can get worse so don’t change anything.
Why persist with an obviously FAILING strategy? At this rate, it is DEFINITELY going to get worse if we continue in the way we are going.

I didn't say don't change anything. For all we know, Arsene will make it easy and walk someday rendering all our postulations irrelevant. All I'm saying is that from what I see, it could be a whole lot worse particularly in an era where money is speaking loudly and we don't seem to have that money. Who knows? there might be a genius somewhere out there who will win a PL on West Bromwich's budget.
There is however a reason for the old saying that the Devil known is better than the angel unknown. Personally, I see no reason to go against that wise saying in this instance cos I'm yet to see such a genius. I love Arsenal too much to gamble on such.
By the way Debo, I consider you to be more conservative than I am. 

debosky:

As I said previously, the only language this current board/management understands is disaster and absolute disgrace. If they don’t change things by themselves, the weakness in season tickets come May will be unprecedented - ultimately when the CL income is gone AND fans walk away, the board will finally see sense that things need to change. Since they are too weak to do anything, fans will eventually cause the change. . . but at what cost?

More food for thought, let's wait and see. As long as you and I remain fans I don't expect much to change. I'm not planning on renouncing my membership just yet, are you? 
If we go Europa, it will definitely affect us but Mr Chairman is already saying they've budgeted for it. Lets wait to hear from Mr. Kroenke, he might hold a different opinion.

debosky:

For goodness sake, why not rip up these stup!d deals and get commercial sponsorship to bring in an extra £20m a year or more which when ADDED to (not replaced by) the youth system? If we don’t do that, we clearly will continue in the current downward spiral.

I’m done with epistles. . . . .it’s clear what needs to be done, now it’s over to Wenger and Gazidis. You either let time pass you by or you adapt. Change or die.

I keep on asking myself that same question but personally I know little about these deals but what the experts in the club say is that they have to run their course. Whether its Arsenal being honourable or whether they are legally obligated to see them out I honestly do not know but think its the latter. Liverpool have not performed better than us in recent times and are looking to a second season in Europa but their new deal is reported to even top Manure's.

StarBoard:

My pleasure,nitwit.
Keep up the mis-information and wrong analysis as well as the wrong projections.

Thank you very much dimbulb. If my posts bother you, you don't exactly have to read them. I'm sure the use of the scroll keys isn't beyond the comprehension of an empty egghead.  

proudly9ja:

^^
Ur last line is what irks me about AW and some of his die hard fans. (dont take it personal )

[b]I admit that we cannot do anything about players getting injured but I bet that if we do a small research and read NL pages for just about this period of the year for the past few years, [/b]its the same thing we keep saying, i.e. maybe when injured players return things will change. I can't blame AW that our players get injured (unless there's something they put in their food at Emirates) but I will blame him because season in season out, AW hardly does anything about it! Its not rocket science if everybody else sees it except AW and his fans.

I don't want to bring out an argument out of this because again if we chack NL Arsenal threads for this period in past years, its a repetition of the same arguments so no point. Our season can almost be perfectly modelled. Do well in first half, raise hopes then players get injured and Arsene refuses to do anything about it. Injured players cost us matches and by the time they return, its too late to catch up with rest of the group.

In the past when it was only United to catch up with, it wasn't too bad, then Chelsea cam on board and we dropped even further. Now City and Spurs (of all teams!) have joined the fray. Hopefully, Chelsea and Liverpool won't get it right manager wise  . Its the only reason we are still even dreaming of 4th place

That is exactly why some people are paid to manage and some pay to comment.  

Arsene will rightly get the flak and will hold up his hands he made a mistake yesterday. While I can understand why he may want to substitute Ox, it was wrong and slam out of order.  But over and above that, anyone who goes out now to boast of Arsenal as being capable of anything beyond a top 4 finish would be in need of having their head examined. That has been my point all season long and it hasn't changed.  The same set of people who were saying Wenger out in August/September cos according to them we would be relegated later kept quiet when things turned and have gone overboard again at the current reverse. That kind of short termism is not what any sustainable success is built on.
For me, Arsenal's usual yo-yo season is not only about there being more competition, it is more about money.
Other clubs around you cannot continue to spend more than you YoY (Transfer and wages combined) and you expect a manager to continue to repeat the same miracles every year.

Last year, my projections about where Arsenal would be was premised on us keeping (at least) one of Nasri and Cesc and adding the likes of Gervinho or Hazard to the team while getting rid of the Arshavins and Rosickys but that didn't happen and I personally believe its ridiculous and unfair to put all the blame for that on Arsene. We paid the price in terms of performance to bring those 2 to a certain level (and burnt players like Denilson and Vela in the process) but how did that end? Arab money ensured we didn't reap the rewards and now it seems we are stuck in transition again bringing up the likes of Ramsey/Wilshere/Coquelin/Ox and of course we'll pay for it as they develop.
If you've noticed, Arsene himself hasn't been bullish about this season like he  was last season? IMO within the club, there is a already an acceptance that there will be a stepping backwards before the club can move forward again. How far backward the club needs to step is what I don't think anyone can be sure of but I'd like to think it a minimum top 4 finish but the board IMO are already relaxing that requirement.

That is the core of my arguments with Debo and most on here.

It is my opinion that Wenger has largely surpassed the expectations of the Board since the Stadium project started and will do so again if he makes top 4 this season. [b]Changing the manager changes nothing if the board's strategy stays the same. [/b]What you can hope to get is either another Genius hamstrung by the same limitations Arsene currently is who will either do exactly what Arsene has done (but likely without the pressure and ill feeling that has built up for Arsene over time) and ultimately see the youth system come to fruition or more likely IMO make even more mistakes in the market and deliver even worse results.

Up till this season, the complaint has been about collapsing while being in a position to win the PL but this season, early signs are that we won't even make top 4. So, while most people think it should be better, I can assure you it can get a whole lot worse.

To believe there is a silver bullet out there that will resolve this is a fallacy IMO, most things in life are either solved by time(and a well thought out process), money or an healthy combo of both. Rooney's previously receeding hairline is a very good example.  
Money we don't seem to have or want to throw at it (and those who are throwing money at it do have their own problems e.g Chelsea and Liverpool), the board probably feel they need time to make the youth system work but most fans seem to want nothing of such. Time will tell what gives.
This is a good read about how the club spends money and it is not written by a Wenger apologist http://angryofislington.com/2012/01/19/arsenals-finances-the-plain-truth/
And its okay if you think I'm a die hard Wenger fan, you most likely have good reasons to think so but that doesn't mean yu're right.  

StarBoard:

05/06.
You now add misinformation  to your list of gaffes.Concentrate,boy.

Thank you very much for the correction boy scout, I'm sure you count it an affirmation of your assumed genius.  

proudly9ja:

Well, the way him sef dey don talk am say he needs to grow up and focus on footie.  He's a good lad though and great future ahead.

Our next four matches - Villa, Bolton, Blackburn and Sunderland. All winnable matches for Milan's visit.
One match at a time. Top 4 still achievable with Chelsea's form.

Top 4 is doable but might need Chelsea to fumble this season like Tottenham did in 06/07 as I don't expect Tottenham to fumble. I hope some people are already preparing the Lasagne for the final match. 
Too many things changing about the team at present and difficult to call until we have most of the injured back. Success is built on stability. Not a stellar season by any means.

proudly9ja:

WS13 don vex o

@13Szczesny13 Wojciech Szczesny
Its just about time for me to grow up, delete twitter and focus on football! Thanks for all the support I have received here.

Na that rapist jibe wahala cause am. Easy to be taken out of context and things blown out of proportion as is usually done on NL.

chamotex:

U don vex be that? 
I dont need to embarrass you any further . . . it's too easy

Me vex ke? I always knew yu were on a wind up mission. Na today? 
The only one embarrased is yu

Messi, 5th hat trick of the season.
This guy and CR9 are redefining football.

chamotex:

Hehehe . . . now you've switched it to 'firm' prediction? Typical!

Quote the prediction or for ever remain a solar powered radio.

chamotex:

Why did you edit your post?
Mr predictor!!!
Admit it you are clueless when it comes to making predictions . . .

Becos I chose to or is there a law against it?
Admit yu're clueless at turning irrelevant issues into hot topics Mr Radio without battery.
No one here can say I made any firm predictions about this particular match beyond hoping my team wins.