₦airaland Forum

Ochoiho:
Which Solomon are you talking about, do you even read the Bible talkless of understanding it?
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My dear it is you that is reading the bible upside down...
Solomon built the Temple for God according to the specifications God gave his father David, (cf 2 sam 7, 1 chron 17 &1 chron 28 emphasis on verse 6 He said to me, ‘It is Solomon your son who shall build my house and my courts,) Solomon did Just that in 1 kings 6.. With 15 ft tall golden statues of cherubims (1 kings 6:23 - 28), on the walls he carved images gourds and flowers ( 1kings 6:18), He also carved on all the walls round the house images of cherubims and palm trees (1 kings 6:29) and on the doors also (1 kings 6:32, 35)..
SO INDEED THE TEMPLE OF JERUSALEM WHICH SOLOMON BUILT WAS FILLED WITH IMAGES AND STATUES, AND DID GOD REJECT THE TEMPLE OR CONDEMN HIM FOR MAKING STATUES?? NOO BECAUSE HE OBEYED GODS COMMAND WHILE HE WAS BUILDING THE TEMPLE..
1 Kings 6:11 Now the word of the Lord came to Solomon, 12 “Concerning this house which you are building, if you will walk in my statutes and obey my ordinances and keep all my commandments and walk in them, then I will establish my word with you, which I spoke to David your father.

AND AFTER BUILDING THE TEMPLE GOD WAS PLEASED AND CONSECRATED THE TEMPLE... EVEN WITH THE IMAGES TO HIMSELF AND PUT HIS NAME ON IT..
1 Kings 8: 10 And when the priests came out of the holy place, a cloud filled the house of the Lord, 11 so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud; for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord. (Read the whole chapter)
1 kings 9: 1When Solomon had finished building the house of the Lord and the king’s house and all that Solomon desired to build, 2 the Lord appeared to Solomon a second time, as he had appeared to him at Gibeon. 3 And the Lord said to him, “I have heard your prayer and your supplication, which you have made before me; I have consecrated this house which you have built, and put my name there for ever
SO THE BUILDING OF THE TEMPLE IS A BIBLICAL TRUTH.. AND THE TEMPLE HAS IMAGES.. even the prophecy of Ezekiel for the rebuilding of the temple has images (cf 40, 41:1-18,19-end )

[quote author=Ochoiho post=63216230]Solomon Introduced Israel to Idolatry the same way Catholic introduce Idolatry into Christianity.

ARE YOU SAYING THE TEMPLE SOLOMON BUILT FOR GOD IS IDOLATROUS

Ochoiho:
! King 11: 4-5 'For when Solomon was old,his wives turned his heart away after other gods; and his heart was not whollydevoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been. 5For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians and after Milcom the detestable idol of the Ammonites. 6Solomon did what was evilin the sight of the LORD, and did not follow the LORD fully, as David his fatherhad done'Solomon's linage lost the throne except for Judah for sake of David the Man after God's Heart.

The fact that Solomon fell into idolatry in his old age doesn't negate the fact that He built the temple which God accepted with images and statues..
THE PROBLEM HERE AS YOU RIGHTLY POINT OUT IS SERVING OTHER gods (Ashtoreth and Milcom) not in making images of cherubims or any images at all..

[quote author=Ochoiho post=63216230]If God could reject Solomon because of Idolatry(The same person who prayed and fire came down to consume the sacrifice during the dedication of the Temple)
[\quote]
A TEMPLE THAT HAD IMAGES AND STATUES MIND YOU.. IT WAS DEDICATED TO GOD AND GOD CAME DOWN AND CONSUMED THE SACRIFICE DURING THE DEDICATION OF SAID TEMPLE.. So serving Ashtoreh and Milcom HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH BUILDING THE TEMPLE.. WHICH GOD WAS PLEASED WITH BY THE WAY..

[quote author=Ochoiho post=63216230]then who are you?Catholic's idolatry is similar to that of African's. Both are built on the believe that the Dead are watching over the living and can hear and recieve thier prayers. The Devil is behind both. Pleaserepent, give your life to Jesus and become born again, then you can make Heaven eventually, anything sort of that is a wastage of your time.
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WRONG AGAIN.. CATHOLICS DONT PRACTICE IDOLATRY.... WE DONT BELIEVE THAT ANYONE WHO DIES IN CHRIST IS "DEAD" BECAUSE
1. Our God is a God of the living not of the dead
Mathew 22:32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.”
2. No one who believes in Jesus dies..
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, 26 and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die.
AND WE BELIEVE THAT THOSE IN HEAVEN ARE AWARE OF THE THINGS HAPPENING ON EARTH...as the bible says

1. THEY ARE OUR CLOUD OF WITNESSES. CHEERING US ON FROM HEAVEN...
Hebrews 12:1Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us,
2. THEY REJOICE WHEN SINNERS REPENT
Luke 15:7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
3. WE HAVE THEM IN HEAVEN AND CAN GO TO THEM
Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

IF YOU THINK THE DEVIL IS BEHIND PEOPLE BEING ALIVE IN CHRIST AND SEEKNG THE FACE OF GOD AND OFFERING PRAISE AND PRAYERS TO GOD FOR THEIR FELLOW CHRISTIANS ON EARTH THEN IT IS YOU WHO NEEDS TO REPENT..
AND P.S ALL CATHOLICS ARE BORN AGAIN AS JESUS COMMANDED IN JOHN 3:5.

G007:
Bro, I did mine last week too. I am currently out of town.
Do you know if they cancelled that and started another?

No Sir, that's what am trying to find out.. but I will go tomorrow to confirm

I did my verification on Wednesday last week and filled a form at the Secretariat, now am hearing that we have to come back for verification, any truth to that..
Location was Abuja, Bwari area council

hadow:
Is this why most catholic churches have her shrine,

We have "shrines" to her because we honor her, as well as every other person who is above us in the faith.. We specially recognize her because of what God did through her and for her and we honor her for it afterall the bible says to give honour to whom it is due..
(Cf romans 13:7)

hadow:
is this why you pray to her to forgive your sins

We don't ask her to forgive our sins, we ask God to forgive our sins.. IF YOU SAY WE DO, THEN PROVIDE A PRAYER TO MARY THAT INVOLVES HER FORGIVING SIN

hadow:
and pray for you

Yes.. We ask for her intercession, if that's what you mean, The Bible asks us to pray for one another, And James 5:16 says the prayer of a righteous man is powerful.. And Mary is in heaven and anyone in heaven is definitely righteous..
The difference between us is that you think death separates the body of Christ, but Christ has conquered death (cf 1 cor 15) death doesn't separate us from the love of God in Christ, (cf romans 8:36) and all of us are members of the body of Christ (cf romans 12, 1 cor 12)...

hadow:
even after the Bible says there are 3 that bear witness in heaven and we both know Mary isn't one of them

My dear, you are quoting the Bible out of context here.. 1 john 5 talks about the testimony of Jesus as the Son of God, (see verse 5 and 9) it has nothing to do with intercession..
According to the bible Angels and Saints make intercession for us in heaven (cf Rev 5:8, 8:3, Mathew 18:10)
AND P.S. THAT REFERENCE YOU MADE IS CALLED THE JOHANINE COMMA, SOME ARGUE IT'S NOT IN THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS.. look it up..

hadow:
and even after the Bible says that whosoever shall call upon the name of the lord shall be saved--unless Mary is the Lord

You're right Mary is not the Lord, Mary doesn't save, Catholics are baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as Jesus directed in Mathew 28:19- end not in the Name of Mary, we end our prayers with "in Jesus name" or " through Christ our Lord" not in Mary's name...
In our Creed we say Jesus died to save us..
So na only you know wet in you dey talk.. WE ARE SAVED BY CHRIST..

and P.S. YOU ARE DERAILING THE THREAD

Ochoiho:
I dont have the time for this argument, Pls stick with your Mary-worship, we'll know how wise you have been when this life ends. For me, Mary dont count and have no reason to count, Jesus never directed my attention to Mary when he was about leaving the earth but to the Holy Spirit. Shalom

My dear.. I don't worship Mary, I worship the One true God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit alone..
When life ends everyone will go to his or her own judgement..
Mary counts because God gave her a special role, that is to bring Jesus to the world.. She herself said it under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit...
Luke 1:48b For, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
49For he that is mighty hath done to me great things;

God is glorified in his creation.. So Mary counts because of what God used her for and the more you appreciate what God did for her the more you appreciate God...

Jesus left Mary to John and to the apostles.. For her to be their Mother. (cf john 19:27, acts 1:14, Rev 12:1, 17)...
We are all members of the Body of Christ and we glory and suffer together...

IF PAUL, PETER, JOHN ETC MATTERED FOR PREACHING CHRIST TO THE NATIONS, THEN MARY MATTERED FOR BRINGING CHRIST INTO THE WORLD ACCORDING TO GOD' S DIVINE PLAN...

[quote author=Ochoiho post=63179853][/quote]You said God favoured her to bear his son.. that all catholics agree with..
We say since God favoured her to have his Son, He prepared her for that purpose by making her pure enough to bear the Holy one of God (cf Luke 1:35)..
WE SAY JESUS IS HOLY AND CANNOT DWELL IN A DIRTY SINFUL VESSEL.. SO GOD PREPARED THAT VESSEL (MARY) SPECIALLY FOR HIM TO BE PURE ENOUGH TO RECEIVE HIM...

MARY WAS SINLESS BECAUSE OF JESUS CHRIST.. OUR JESUS DESERVES A PURE VESSEL IF YOURS DOES NOT...

IF YOU SAY ITS A DEVIL INSPIRED INTERPRETATION THEN THE DEVIL RECOGNIZES THE POWER OF GOD AND MAJESTY AND GLORY OF JESUS MORE THAN YOU...

[quote author=Ochoiho post=63179853][/quote]You're right, Mary bearing Jesus was a favour from God, and Mary did nothing to earn it.. Catholics don't divert attention from Jesus to Mary, We give her honour because of Jesus Christ.
It was God that made her pure to be a worthy mother of Jesus Christ..
It is not the Pope that is manipulating scripture.. it is your new generation Churches that are..
MAYBE YOU DONT KNOW BUT WHAT THE POPE SAID IS NOT NEW.. THAT'S HOW THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS INTERPRETED IT AND EVEN THE FOUNDER PROTESTANTISM INTERPRETS THAT PASSAGE THE SAME WAY..

WE SAY OUR GOD IS POWERFUL ENOUGH TO SAVE MARY FROM SIN AT THE MOMENT OF HER CONCEPTION..
GOD HAS THE POWER...

WHY DO YOU DENY THE GREAT GRACE GOD GAVE MARY??

Ochoiho:
Interpretation of the scriptures inspired by Satan. What of the Images am seeing up there, are they as a result of 'sinlessness' of Mary or Catholic's Leading of Millions into Idolatry.

Why do you say it is an interpretation inspired by Satan??

Fxwarrior:
First he wants to change the Bible, now he's giving wrong and blasphemous speeches.

According to NwaAmaikpe he's the Antichrist while online reviews quote him as being the false prophet. What do you think?

My dear I suggest you get your facts right, He doesn't want to change the Bible, He is suggesting that the last line of the Lord's prayer, "lead us not into temptation" is a wrong translation because God cannot lead us into temptation quoting James 1:13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
HE SUGGESTS THAT THE TRANSLATION BE CHECKED AGAIN, THAT DOESN'T EQUATE TO "CHANGING" THE BIBLE...
AND MARY BEEN SINLESS IS AN ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE THAT STRETCHES BACK TO THE EARLY CHURCH..

SO GO AND LOOK FOR THE ANTICHRIST SOMEWHERE ELSE

donnie:
Big Lie.

Even Mary declared herself a sinner by referring to God as her saviour.

Luke 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

My dear go and read through the thread, that objection has already been addressed..

fellowman:
Jesus is not God.

Does the identity of God have to be “a very profound mystery? It did not seem so to Jesus. In his prayer to his Father, Jesus made a clear distinction between him and his Father when he said: “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.” (John 17:3 )

YOU ARE RIGHT, IT WAS NOT A PROFOUND MYSTERY TO JESUS, BECAUSE HE KNEW, BUT IT IS TO US...
My dear.. if you read the bible as a whole you would understand Jesus' divinity better, but anyway that is not the topic of the thread..
The Father is God.. there's no issue with that, Jesus is also God because scripture alludes to that..
John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Even the father calls him God
Hebrew 1:8But unto the son he saith,
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:
A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

and Jesus refers to himself by a title known to belong to God..
Rev 2:8And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
We also see similar references in
Rev 21:6-7 Then He said to me, "It is done I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.
Revelation 1:17-18
When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a
dead man And He placed His right hand
on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am
the first and the last, and the living One;
and I was dead, and behold, I am alive
forevermore, and I have the keys of
death and of Hades.

WE KNOW THESE VERSES TALK ABOUT JESUS BECAUSE HE IS THE ONE WHO WAS DEAD AND IS ALIVE...NOT THE FATHER
COMPARE THESE WITH
Isaiah 44:6"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.


Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel
whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I
am also the last.
THESE CLEARLY TALK ABOUT GOD, USING TITLES THAT JESUS USES FOR HIMSELF.. THERE'S NO CONTRADICTION, JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE BOTH GOD, THE ONE GOD.. THAT WHERE THE MYSTERY AND DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY COMES IN.. BUT THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT THE DIVINITY OF JESUS OR THE TRINITY SO LETS NOT DERAIL IT...

bloodofthelamb:
Why did Jesus came into the world through a virgin birth? if having a biogical Father does not mean anything.

Sin is passed down from Father to sons and daughters, and not from Mother to sons and daughters.

The Virgin Birth was necessary because Jesus was the Son of God begotten of the Father (cf John 1:14) and he is God himself.. So by that Jesus cannot directly be a Son of a man, since he already has a Father, God...
In essence Jesus cannot both be the Son of God and the direct descendant of a man.. A MAN CANNOT HAVE TWO FATHERS..
Secondly since Jesus is God (john 1:1-2, 20:28).. God cannot have a human Father because then God will be subject to man, because the Father is the head of the household and Sons are subject to their father.. So having a father according to the flesh would bring God under the dominion of man.. WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE..

God can do all things, he can protect someone from sin even if they have a father, and that is exactly what He did... Its called a Miracle and God can do Miracles... God can create someone without sin.. He made the rule.. He can create exceptions..
DON'T PUT HUMAN CONSTRAINTS UPON GOD..

bloodofthelamb:
Mary was the seed of his Father and there is no way GOD could have prevented her from inheriting that sinful nature from her Father.

You should stop looking for a way to justify your Marian worship.

So you are saying if someone has a father.. then God cannot save them from sin?.. I HOPE YOU REALIZE YOU ARE LIMITING GOD'S POWER...
My dear there is no Marian worship there.. you are the one trying to justify your anti Marian notions..
ITS A PITY YOU LIMIT GOD'S ABILITY TO SAVE SOMEONE TO THEM NOT HAVING A FATHER...
WE BELIEVE IN A GOD WHO CAN DO ALL THINGS.. (Mathew 19:26)
Jude 1:24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

bloodofthelamb:
Was the mother of Mary a virgin? Mary had a biological father, or i'm wrong? So, how did GOD save her? 8

I am curious to know. Why didn't GOD save us the same way now?

Mary had a biological Father, his name was Joachim, and her mother was Anne,
Mary is not Jesus so she didn't have to be born of a virgin..
God saved her by applying the grace Christ merited to her at her conception.. like I said in my earlier response, He saved her from falling while he saved us after we have fallen..
God did this specially for Mary because of Jesus Christ.. It is fitting that the Eternal divine Son of God who the bible calls Holy (cf luke 1:35) to inhabit the purest vessel just as God descended in the form of the glory cloud on the mercy seat of the ark that was made with the best materials (cf exodus 25:20-22)..
God didn't save us that way because he didn't choose us to bear his Son Jesus Christ..

candelahria:
Jesus got his DNA from Mary?It's stated clearly that Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit. Human intermingling of chromosomes has nothing to do with this. Luke 1:35.

Actually it does.. you're right by saying intermingling of chromosome was not there.. because mingling of chromosomes happen when there's an egg and s sperm.. but in this case that didn't happen but that doesn't mean then that Jesus didn't get any Genetic material from Mary...
The bible calls Jesus prophetically the "seed of the woman" meaning that the woman's seed, part of her genetic material formed Jesus and the holy spirit made it happen..
Gen 3:15and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;

In the Bible seed means reproductive material and consequently offspring..

fellowman:
guy Mary was not perfect, kiss the truth, there is none righteous no not one. infact Mary had so many children after conceiving Jesus.

so she's not that perfect as you Catholics are trying to make her look, I'm a Christian but not a Catholic.

You are the one who should see the plain truth... Your argument of ritual uncleanliness doesn't work..
We Catholics are not trying to make her look perfect God made her perfect because Jesus Christ deserved the best mother..
As for the other children argument that is not what the thread was opened for..
You say you are a christian so I advice you to read the Early Church Fathers on Mary..
and like I pointed out... The bible mentions righteous people like Noah (Gen 6:9) and Simeon (Luke 2:25). so read the whole bible and realize that Rev 3:10 is not a blanket statement, and even if it is.. God is powerful enough to make exceptions

hadow:
dd u read what I wrote I never said it was written it is derivative

I did... this is what you wrote..
"why do u think Jesus chose to be baptised he was born of a woman and that alone has tainted him."

You said because of being born of a woman.. he was tainted so that is why he chose to be. baptized..
You say its a derivative.. where did you derive it from

Also romans 3:23 is also a false premise because all men have not sinned..
Jesus did not sin..
Babies have not sinned, So are all children under the age of reason.. Romans 9:11 talks about Jacob and Esau not doing anything Good or bad before being born.. so babies in the womb would be included..
Not to mention mad people or people with mental disability..

Romans 3 is not meant to be generalized
because all the people I have mentioned above have not sinned..

Secondly, there are other statements in romans 3 which have the "all" as well but you abandoned all those..

romans 3:10 as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
the bible mentions several righteous people..
Noah was called a righteous man (gen 6:9), Simeon was also called a righteous man (Luke 2:25) there are many others..

romans 3:11 no one understands, no one seeks for God.
Don't you seek God many biblical characters seeked God...

romans 3:12 All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong;
no one does good, not even one.”

The bible records many people doing good.. don't you do good? does everyone you know do wrong?.

So understand the context.. Romans 3 was talking about Jews and Gentiles.. it doesn't mean every single person alive or that has ever lived.. doesn't seek God or is not righteous or has sinned...

OLAADEGBU:
Pope Francis claims angels greeting to Mary as being 'full of grace' meant she was without sin

according to your article all of humanity sinned because of Adam... Jesus was part of humanity.. He became man.. John 1:14...
He was even categorically called a son of Adam.. when his ancestry was traced in Luke 3.. So all men sinning would include Jesus since he was also a man..
Here's What you fail to mention
Romans 5:15b For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.17 If, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

so grace and salvation came through Jesus.. And what the Catholic Church says is that because of the merits of bearing Jesus Christ, God have many the grace that Jesus would gain preveniently so she would be a befitting vessel for his incarnation.. For Catholics Jesus deserves the purest and best vessel to carry him to birth.. And that's exactly what he got..SO THERES NO CONTRADICTION..
that's why the angel called her full of grace, before God using the grace Christ would gain (romans 5:15-17) applied it to Mary,UNLESS YOU THINK GOD IS NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH TO DO THAT, and take note She was called full of grace by the angel before she even knew she was going to bear Jesus and before he was conceived..
SO LIKE I SAID BEFORE.. THERE'S NO CONTRADICTION OR ERROR..JUST YOUR FAULTY LESS THAN 500 YEAR OLD INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE...

You people are funny oh.. God specially prepares places where he would descend or communicate with his people..

He gave special instructions in building the ark.. He said use acacia wood, use PURE GOLD, make a mercy seat of PURE GOLD, Make Cherubims of PURE GOLD arranged in a particular way.. and God said, there I will meet you in verse 22.. (cf exodus 25:10-23)

God told Moses to use the best wood, the most expensive material (gold) and not just gold, but PURE GOLD....
If God would direct the ark to be made so specially for his people to encounter him in the old testament.. how much more will he specially make the vessel with which he came down in the new testament.. IF HE MADE THE ARK WITH GOOD STRONG PURE MATERIALS HOW MUCH MORE WILL HE MAKE THE VESSEL THAT HE DWELLED IN FOR NINE MONTHS PURE....

hadow:
why do u think Jesus chose to be baptised he was born of a woman and that alone has tainted him.

Are you saying Jesus was stained all from his birth till he was baptized?? where does the Bible say that??

fellowman:
why did she need to offer an atonement according to Old Testament Law (Lev. 12:1-8 ) after giving birth to Jesus ? According to the Old Testament, it was only the mother who needed purifying after a birth because of the issue of blood. She was ritually unclean. If she had a male child, the days of her period of uncleanness was seven days, then the child was circumcised, then she remained unclean for 33 days (v. 4)--for a total of 40 days. If she bore a female child, her period of uncleanness would be 14 days plus 66 days for a total of 80 days. Notice in Leviticus 12:2 it says if she bears a male child, she shall be unclean for seven days. If Mary was sinless, how could she also be unclean?

Luke 2 vs 21-24 says


a And when the days for their purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him up to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord

23 (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, “ a EVERY firstborn MALE THAT OPENS THE WOMB SHALL BE CALLED HOLY TO THE LORD”),

24 and to offer a sacrifice according to what was said in the Law of the Lord, “ a A PAIR OF TURTLEDOVES OR TWO YOUNG PIGEONS.”

MARY WAS A SINNER

There's a fundamental flaw with this argument..
1. You equate being ritually unclean with sin.. being ritually unclean is not sin..
What is Sin, It is breaking God's law, the ten commandments, Evil against God and or neighbour..
Needing to be "purified" after giving birth is not sin..
that is ritual purification.. am sure you won't say that a woman who gave birth is guilty of sin..

according to Jewish custom bearing a children not only a male child makes s woman ritually unclean because of the blood just like menstruation but am sure you won't also say menstruation or giving birth is a sin..
Everything from touching a dead body to menstruating led to ritual impurity, but those things aren’t sins. Christ Himself sat to eat without ritually washing (Luke 11:37-38), and He was pretty explicit in denouncing obsessing over ritual impurity, and conflating it with sin (see, e.g.,
Matthew 15:1-3, 10-20; Luke 11:37-41).

2. The fact that someone obeys a law doesn't make them guilty.. Jesus obeyed many Jewish laws.. he got baptized, he was circumcised to make him part of the covenant God made with Abraham (gen 17:10) that doesn't mean He is not the son of God or that he needed it.. it was just to obey the law..

3. Lastly Leviticus 12 doesn't apply to Mary because Jesus birth was not natural... She just obeyed the law and accepted it . if she did not.. she might be stoned for having a child outside of her husband ..
here's why
Leviticus 12:2 is being translated very loosely here, as it is in many other l English-language Bibles, in saying that the sin offering applies whenever “ a woman conceives , and bears a male child. ” It doesn’t say that. The Hebrew literally says that it applies if “ a woman receives seed, and bears a male child. ”
The Hebrew is clear here:
1. In prophesies about the Virgin Birth, like
Isaiah 7:14, the word used is hareh,
which means “pregnant.”
2. In Leviticus 12:2, that’s not the verb
used. Rather, it’s zara’ , which means “to
sow,” or “to receive seed.” For example,
this is the verb used for sowing
in Genesis 47:23 and Exodus 23:10. In
both Hebrew and English,
In other words, Leviticus 12 only applies to a woman if she’s inseminated. The KJV gets this right, but most translations use the more polite “ conceives. ” Normally, that’s no big deal.
Here, it’s huge, because Mary conceives Jesus, but she was never inseminated .

bloodofthelamb:
Luke1:46-47_ And Mary said, "My soul doth magnify the LORD. 47- And my spirit hath rejoiced in GOD my saviour.

Why do Mary need a saviour if she was without sin? Only sick people need a doctor.

Wrong analogy.. It was God who saved her yes.. A person can be saved before they fall into a ditch.. just like they can also be saved after they fall into a ditch..
the Bible itself says God can prevent us from falling
jude 1: 24 Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you without blemish before the presence of his glory with rejoicing, 25 to the only God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and for ever. Amen..

So you can be saved not only when you are brought out of a hole you fell into.. you can also be saved from falling into that same hole.. and that is exactly what God did for Mary

I just saw on a post in the thread that italo lost his Dad, I have been wondering why he has not been active for a while, My condolence to him and his family, and may the soul of his Father and the souls of all the faithful departed, through the mercy of God rest in peace..
That being said.. I think there should be a way we can better keep in touch or be aware of what is happening with one another.. Nairaland is rather privative, maybe a more accessible platform might make outreach easier..
my thoughts..

babestell:
Good Afternoon all.

I used to be a member here.

So Italo lost his dad a few months ago don't know if anyone posted it here.

All has been well with me. Even though i must confess I have been lukewarm in the practice of my faith. Its become mechanical so to say. Yes I go morning mass, regular confession but that deep burning desire to love God is gone, plus i dont pray or read my bible or say my rosary as often. i think that makes me officially a sinner.

My mechanic who i liked so much died on 4th of November and i didn't find out till 30th. so much for liked so much. My junior brother has been struggling at school and i have blocked him. But if i die now there will always be that regret so i better unblock him.

Also since i am still unmarried, and 35 is almost here, i have decided to get pregnant. its so funny that there are many candidates who want to help you get preggy but don't want to marry you. Because the process of getting preggy is a sin, i guess i am going to be spiritually lukewarm for another year.

So yeah....now you cant say you dont know whats up in babestell's life

Hello dear sister in Christ..
I don't really have much to say.. But I want to encourage you..... being lukewarm is not good.. If I remember my catechism correctly.. its a sin against love... na joke oh..
Talking about love.. I think you need to spend some alone time with Jesus in the blessed sacrament and pour out your heart to him.. tell him to help you love him more.. Once you love him more.. then that lukewarmness will go.. and it will inflame you with hope and faith... Remember love is the greatest (1 cor 13:13)..

like syncan has said, Don't sin against God or defile yourself to get a child, You can adopt if you want a child, I know its not easy, but like My Mentor Fr George Ehusani will say.. True happiness comes from God not from the presence of a spouse or the lack of it.. even married people get their joy from God.. So tell God to satisfy you... Like the prayer goes.. Jesus I love you.. all I have is thine.. yours I am and yours I want to be.. do with me what ever you will..

And please settle with your brother oh..
and may the soul Italo's and of your mechanic rest in peace.. Do pray for the repose of his soul..
God bless.. and I said I didn't have much to say...

Hello.. I just say make I show una say I dey here too..I'm not as popular or known here but I dey here oh..
Happy Advent to us all.. And may the Lord find us sober and ready when he comes..

analize701:
Have i argued with you before?

Do you even know anything about Islam or the catholic church your claim to be a member, because if you do, you know about their similarities.

I don't Know oh.. please educate me, What are the similarities between the feast of Christ the King and Ramadan??

analize701:
Pride is the chief spirit of satan.

What is it to you.. Am sure if I say proudly Nigerian.. Or black and proud you would have no problem with that.. but because it involves the Catholic Church you are bringing a non sequitur.. Let us celebrate our feast in peace.. Don't look for every opportunity to argue..

analize701:
Maybe Anglican, but Pentecostals? I doubt.

This the Carholics version of Ramadan.

Must you always argue.. He said Protestant.. not Pentecostal.. And no.. its not the Catholic version of Ramadan.. As they bear no similarities...

Tampinu.. that picture is inaccurate.. You need to learn your history.. The catholic church was founded by Christ in 33 AD.. in The Great schism of 1054 it was the orthodox church that broke out.. you are twisting history....

The church was originally one both catholic and Orthodox before the east west split in 1054., so both go back to Christ. It was the east (Orthodox ) that split from the west.. So going by your thought. I would say that the patriach of Constantinople and the other eastern fathers founded the Orthodox Church..

ALL HAIL CHRIST THE UNIVERSAL KING.. HAPPY FEAST OF CHRIST THE KING...