₦airaland Forum

Tampinu:
I repeat, and for the final time. The mere fact that Ethiopia is the first country/Kingdom mentioned in the Biblemeans that Ethiopia is the root and fruit of Christianity. You do not have to agree and you are within your rights to disagree but I will not go back to that particular topic. And that, is that, about that!

Again I disagree.. That is no criteria.. The root of Christianity is Israel according to God's promise to Abraham ( gen 12), Which comes from Jacob's lineage (12 tribes), Jacob being a son of Isaac who is the Son of Jacob...
Jesus wasn't born or died in Ethiopia but in Israel (Bethlehem and Jerusalem).. The bible is about the Israelites not the Ethiopians.. AND THATS THAT ABOUT THAT

Tampinu:
Where is Jerusalem? Oh, ok, I hear your reply....see my next question below....Where is the NEW Jerusalem?

The old Jerusalem is in Israel, The new Jerusalem will come down from heaven at the end
Rev 3: 12bthe name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: Rev 21:2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,

Tampinu:
So are you telling me that the early prophets like Isaiah and King David waited for the Bible to be compiled by the Greek and Hebrew nations before they learned thespirituality and word of God?

No.. They had the Torah.. The Pentateuch.. And God spoke to them directly in the case of Isaiah and through the prophets and sometimes directly in the case of David... Can you show where God had that same relationship with the Ethiopians

Tampinu:
I didn't say Romans 1:21 gave Ethiopia the right or any right (Please refer to my previous post about quoting Rasta correctly, thanks); what I did was refer you to the book of ROMANs as you werereferring to the ROMAN Catholics...Yes, Isaid Selassie I is the saviour and I repeat that without no apology! Lion of Judah is the Saviour, King of Kings is the Saviour.QadamaweHaile Selassie I is the Saviour!!!

Good for you! My saviour is Jesus Christ the Nazarene, the Son of God made man.. The Messiah..
Luke 2:11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a saviour, which is Christ the Lord. John 4:42and know that this is indeed the Christ, the saviour of the world.

Tampinu:
It's a bit strange that you state that all I have is jargons and passive mentions ofEthiopia. Thanks for your observation and what it means is that I should spare you my jargons and focus on others who have ears to hear. No hard feelings, I respect the fact that I cannot shave a man's head in his absence Peace

No disrespect to you was meant.. I was only saying instead of using Rastafarian slangs and jargons . present historical and explicit biblical proof or even a biblical principle..

Tampinu:
In 21 years of discussing the Bible with hundreds (if not 1000s of people), you are the FIRST person who will categorically state that Psalm 87 refers to Israel. That makes you a genius and I commend your extremely unique talentJust to confirm, are you saying Psalm 102:16 refers to Israel too, vis-a-vis HaileSelassie I and the setting up of OAU (Organisation of AfricanUnity)?And are you stating that Psalm 68:31 refers to Ethiopia in, erm, Israel?Are you aware of Rev 2:9 at all?What about Revelation 3:9, eh?Peace

Funny enough for me as well.. You are the first person saying psalm 87 refers to Ethiopia..
You can look at Bible commentaries on that chapter most if not all refer to Jerusalem in that passage.. Take a look at this..
biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/87-1.htm
Psalm 102 is talking about Jerusalem.. What has OAU got to do with Zion ?? and the LORD there been in all capital is referring to God the Father not haile Selassie.. lastly Am not aware of OAU having a religious significance it is a political organization .
Rev 2:9 and 3:9 can be understood properly in its historical and allegorical significance as it has to do with the Israelites who persecuted Christians in the 2nd century..

Tampinu:
Oh, really? so sorry I didn't notice despite reading the Bible for decades that Moses' Ethiopian wifey along with her kinsmen were pagansBut, I have taken on board your point that she was a pagan, being an Ethiopian, even though the Bible tells usdifferently.So basically, until Jesus Christ came, everyone was pagan, innit? Jesus Christ!It was nice reasoning with you. Pardon me once again for my lies, deceit and waste of your time. Try reading about Zadok the priest, King Solomon, Queen of Sheba and how their son Menelik I brought the Ark of the covenant from Israel to Ethiopia...(It's in the Book of Kings and Chronicles in the Bible) then, maybe, just maybe we may be able to resume a discussion on spirituality as I do not do religion, if u wish. Until then, this represents my final correspondenceto you on these matters.Look after yourself, matePeace

Sorry I fell into the fallacy of generalization.. There were some Ethiopians who partook in the Jewish religion so indeed not all were pagans..
And you're right Moses did mary an Ethiopian woman but that doesn't prove all Ethiopians were believers in the God of Moses.. Or that Ethiopia is the cradle of Christianity... Ahab married a foreigner also in Jezebel.. we all know that Jezebel was a pagan and she brought the worship of Baal to Israel with her..

AS FOR ZADOK HE WAS A JEW IN THE TRIBE OF LEVI AND NOT AN ETHIOPIAN...
1 chron 6:1The sons of Levi; Gershon, Kohath, and Merari. 2And the sons of Kohath; Amram, Izhar, and Hebron, and Uzziel. 3And the children of Amram; Aaron, and Moses, and Miriam. The sons also of Aaron; Nadab, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar. 4Eleazar begat Phinehas, Phinehas begat Abishua, 5and Abishua begat Bukki, and Bukki begat Uzzi, 6and Uzzi begat Zerahiah, and Zerahiah begat Meraioth, 7Meraioth begat Amariah, and Amariah begat ahitub, 8and ahitub begat Zadok, and Zadok begat Ahimaaz,

The queen of Sheba never became a Jew.. Or practiced Judaism.. She only came to see Solomon's wisdom for herself. Even if she did..it is her encounter with Solomon that made it happen..

as for Menelik.. There's nothing in the Bible about that.. If he indeed took the ark to Ethiopia.. It doesn't disprove the fact that the ark was given by God through Moses to the Israelites and it stayed in the temple in Jerusalem from when Solomon built the temple to when it was destroyed..

LASTLY.. before Jesus.. Every one was not a pagan.. The Jewish religion was the right way to God before Jesus Christ so if there were Ethiopians or indeed any other person who was faithful to the God of Israel.. Then that person was not a pagan.. But the fact remains that he was God of the Jews.. The Israelites..

blueAgent:
Can you show me how they where refuted?

If you read Dr Steve Weidenkof's book the real story of the crusades... or Rod Bennett's The Four witnesses or the apostasy that wasn't or Gary michuta's Hostile witnesses or Read Jimmy Akins response to the book written about the topic you would find responses to all.. I don't depend on YouTube videos.. I prefer books or articles with references I can verify...

blueAgent:
Lie, all the Bible verses support Sabbath worship. can you show me one Bible verse supporting Sunday worship?

I don't have time to go back and forth with you... Go and read where I addressed your post about the Sabbath and there's also the testimony of early Christians

Babacele:
didn't Pilate wife warn him not to have anything to do with Christ's death, but the Jews said the sin be on them and their children?

Yeah..She had a dream about him
.. Pilate even wanted to release Jesus but they preferred Barabbas instead..
When Pilate said to Jesus that He had power to set him free Jesus said that he only had power over him because it was granted him from above but the Jews who committed him to Pilate are guilty of greater sin
see mat 27:19, John 19:11

Tampinu:
You havejust hit the nail on the head! Your answers have caused me to halt, turn and lead us in another direction totally. At least we nowhave an agreement that Jesus was no Christian by you admitting that Christians follow Christ, whereas even Christ did not follow Christ! He taught us in the Lord's prayer to pray that "Our Father...", so Christ is not a Christian and Christ's faith and spiritualpractices was same as that of King David, Isaiah, Samuel, Jacob etc Which means certain "Christian" Canons are fraud and as it was in the begining, so shall it be in the end. As Adam and Eve were in thebegining without any "Christian" churches or canons, but with spirituality, so shall it bein the end.

Now the conflict arises due to the fact that this is the end, andinstead of focusing ons pirituality, ones and ones are pre-occupied with religion e.g, The Messianic religion, The Christian religion, the so so and so religion and Canon.

The point being that as it was in Ethiopia since day one, so shall it be in this last days and so it is already except that certain ones do not recognise ree. But for those who know, the fulfilment is already taking place.

The truth is that it is religion that bring spirituality, A Muslim has a Islamic spirituality, a Pentecostal has a Pentecostal spirituality, an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian has that kind of spirituality, so religion does influence spirituality..

Tampinu:
Jesus did his prayers and meditation based on ancient Ethiopian tradition and that is what Imean by Ethiopian cultural/Oral/Text/Written/Documents on spirituality and faith predates ANYTHING fromanywhere else in the world.

According to the bible Jesus was a Jew born from the Lineage of David of the tribe of Judah.. Jesus prayed the Jewish way, he Went to the synagogue and read Jewish scriptures.. not Ethiopian.. Please show me proof of this if I am to believe it..

Tampinu:
Except die-hard AFricans with a slave mentality who still believe that the White race are spiritually or religiously superior to Africans especially where Christianity is concerned.

According to the bible and history, Jesus Christ, a Jew started Christianity, He sent 12 Jewish men out to preach to the whole world so in essence Christianity comes from the Jews.. not the Ethiopians..

Tampinu:

“The temple of the most high begins with the body which houses our life, the essence of our existence. Africans are in bondage today because they approach spirituality through religion provided by foreign invaders and conquerors. We must stop confusing religion and spirituality. Religion is a set of rules, regulations and rituals created by humans, which was suppose to help people grow spiritually. Due to human imperfection religion has become corrupt, political, divisive and a tool for power struggle. Spirituality is not theology or ideology. It is simply a way of life, pure and original as was given by the Most High of Creation. Spirituality is a network linking us to the Most High, the universe, and each other…”

― Haile Selassie I

He is right... I agree..

Tampinu:
Again, please focus on my reasoning and do not attempt to re-arrange, re-shape, re-word or mis-construe my answers
At no point did I mention anything about whether the Title "Defender of the Faith" was unique to Haile Selassie I or not. Instead, I had very politely asked you if you though He bore that Title as a convenient Title. So please, when dealing with Rasta come straight and come clean. Repeat ONLY what you have heard Rasta say, and exactly as Rasta has said it.

You are well within your right to share such knowledge about the uniqueness or lack of uniqueness of the Defender ofthe Faith Title; And if it is not so unique, how comes[b] Alafin of Oyo in Nigeria [/b] is not confered with that Holy Title? That shows you its relevance.

So as I have repeatedly stated, the proof is in Genesis 2:13 and Psalm 87 if that is not enough for you then I can't wake up a man who is enjoying his act by pretending to be asleep; and I won't even attempt to do so if paid!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVr_Iy0oOX8

He might have had the title but you want to make it seem like because he had that title then Ethiopian Christianity is what you say it Is... which is a false notion...
That title has been in use before Selassie
King Henry VIII of England and Ireland, King James V of Scotland had that title in the 16th century.. _more than 300 years before Selassie was born..
look it up..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidei_defensor
So the Title didnt start with Selassie...

Like I have pointed out.. Gen 2:13 and psalm 87 doesn't prove anything other than mention Ethiopia (along with other kingdoms) passively

Tampinu:
Look at the Quote below, it is Haile Selassie I's statements on the Bible... Are you saying to me that the King has lied by claiming that we in Ethiopia have one of the Oldest versions of the Bible?
that's the Key word.. One of the Oldest... not the oldest or the first....

Tampinu:
That statement, along with the eternal fact contained in Genesis 2:13 is all the proof you need! [b][/b

I don't see what you are saying.. Ethiopia is mentioned with reference with river Gihon that encompasses it.. Ethiopia was not the topic of discussion, The context talks about the River that flowed out of Eden and how it parted to form four rivers and each river is mentioned with respect to the land it is found..
River Pison to the land of Havilah.
River Gihon to the land of Ethiopia
River Hiddekel to Assyria
only River Euphrates wasnt mentioned with a place...
There's nothing here about Ethiopia being the cradle of Christianity, and God made contact with Noah, Abraham etc after Adam and non of them was recorded to be from Ethiopia. Instead God chose Israel as his own nation from Jacob...

Tampinu:
Haile Selassie I -On the Bible

We in Ethiopia have one of the oldest versions of the Bible, but however old
the version may be, in whatever language it may be written, the word
remains one and the same..

He's right... He said one of the oldest not the oldest or that Ethiopia compiled the Bible first..

Tampinu:
It transcends all boundaries of empires and all
conceptions of race. It is eternal.

Amen! I completely agreed..

Tampinu:
No doubt you all remember reading in the Acts of the Apostles of how Philip
baptised the Ethiopian official. He is the first Ethiopian on record to have
followed Christ, and from that day onwards the Word of God has continued
to grow in the hearts of Ethiopians.

Again he is right... So before the Ethiopian Eunuch, there was no Christianity in Ethiopia... and he didn't even become a Christian in Ethiopia but in Jerusalem, where Christianity started and spread after Pentecost...

Tampinu:
And I might say for myself that from
early childhood I was taught to appreciate the Bible and my love for it
increases with the passage of time. All through my troubles I have found it a
cause of infinite comfort. "Come unto Me, all ye that labour and are heavy
laden, and I will give you rest" ~ Who can resist an invitation so full of
compassion?

Because of this personal experience in the goodness of the Bible, I was
resolved that all my countrymen should also share its great blessing, and
that by reading the Bible they should find Truth for themselves.

Beautiful.. wonderful...

Tampinu:
Therefore, I caused a new translation to be made from our ancient language into the language which the old and the young understood and spoke.

So the bible was not written or compiled by Ethiopians, Selassie made a TRANSLATION from Greek and Hebrew (original bible language) into Ethiopian dialect...NOT THAT ETHIOPIA FOUNDED CHRISTIANITY OR FIRST COMPILED THE BIBLE... THEY TRANSLATED, THEY DIDN'T COMPILE...

Tampinu:
Today man sees all his hopes and aspirations crumbling before him. He is
perplexed and knows not whither he is drifting. But he must realise that the
Bible is his refuge, and the rallying point for all humanity. In it man will
find the solution of his present difficulties and guidance for his future
action, and unless he accepts with clear conscience the Bible and its great
Message, he cannot hope for salvation. For my part I glory in the Bible.

Haile Selassie I

Again... good...

Tampinu:
You are just taking yourself round and round in a vicious circle!
I never stated that Paul was referring to Haile Selassie I, nor did I assert that Paul was speaking about Ethiopians; please don't try and come and muddle up the waters here.

You said Romans 1:26 is what gives Ethiopia the right.. because it saved Christianity from the Romans and that Selassie is the saviour..
you are the one mincing words and providing circular arguments...

Tampinu:
I have asked you to show me where you previously debunked my evidence and reasoning as incorrect you have not done so.

the link is there.. go and read the thread..

Tampinu:
I have also reminded you about the Book of Romans and you are going here and going there and mixing up the reasoning, you know not what you are on about.

My dear I have history and Bible commentaries to back me up.. all you have is Rastafarian jargon and passive mentions of Ethiopia.

So how comes Psalm 87 did not mention Antioch and Rome etc as the Foundation of God and as the land where this man (JAH) was born? Or are you saying that Psalm 87 says JAH will be born in Ethiopia, and nevertheless some other regions of the world possess spiritual and religious texts that predate that Ethiopia where Psalm 87 says that God will manifest in flesh? Huh? [/quote]Psalm 87 talks about Jerusalem not Ethiopia.. Ethiopia was mentioned in passing.. God manifested in flesh in Bethlehem Judea not Ethiopia (read your bible)

Tampinu:
What proof are you still awaiting, the proof is there for you just open a Bible (with clean hands and a pure heart of course) flip the pages to Genesis Chatper 2 verse 13 and that is all the proof that you need. Adam and Eve were placed iin the Garden of Eden which had River Nile near it, a branch/Tributary of which runs through Ethiopia , end of story.

The only proof there is that a river runs through Ethiopia, BUT WHAT HAS THAT GOT TO DO WITH ANYTHING.. the rivers passes through three other places..
THIS DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING.... ITS LAUGHABLE ACTUALLY

Tampinu:
What that passage in Genesis tells us is that all civilisation was based on that origin, be it Social, Spiritual, Religious, Academic, I say ALL!!!
Unless you want to tell us that God made Adam and Eve in Ethiopia and then God left them without teachings/Texts/Canons etc

Lol.. so because river Gihon one of the four rivers passed through Ethiopia.. therefore it is the cradle of civilization... The river passes through other places.. are they also cradle of civilization??.. That logic is so poor that it is not worth mentioning.. Canaan was not mention, Jerusalem was not mentioned, Israel was not mentioned yet the bible records that God gave those places to his people and Jesus came from that nation..

Tampinu:
Whatever religious/spiritual teachings the Ethiopians have, be it oral or written invariably predates whatever comes after!

Before Christianity came.. the Ethiopians were pagans..

Tampinu:
If you are tracing the roots of christianity does it not make sense to consider which civilisations and Kingdoms were first exposed to Christianity/Faith/Spirituality? So basically, you are telling us that Ethiopia was mentioned in the Bible in Genesis 2:13 and then there was a void until the Romans and the others came into consideration in the New Testament? So wwhat did you have to say about the book of Romans to which I made repeated references ? Answer the question's question! Or you are trying to be clever without be being smart?

This isnot about foul language or insults, it's called calling a spade a spade.
Rasta don't suffer fools! Learn that!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng6_SoWxBhQ

you're right it makes sense to consider such civilizations.. but the first to experience Christianity were the Jews and then the various cities under the roman empire.. It started in Israel and spread from Jerusalem to Antioch, colossae, Rome, Ephesus, Corinth etc by the Apostles...

there is nothing in early Christian activities about Ethiopia in the new testament apart from the Ethiopian eunuch...
Yes Ethiopia is mentioned in Gen 2: 13 not because it is the cradle of Christianity but because a river (Gihon) passed through it.. It was merely used as a landmark for description.. nothing else...
There's no void.. Jesus sent his apostles to preach.. two of them went to Rome and established a church there..

I am still waiting for the proof that the Ethiopian canon predates hippo and Carthage.. Give me documents with dates.. thank you..

Tampinu:
Sothere was no Christianity until the day of the pentecoste, eh? Bearing in mind that even Jesus stated that He did not come to change the laws but to fulfil them. so the prophesies of David and Isaiah regading Christ e.g, Psalm 22 and Isaiah 41 were written for whom and in reference to whom? So Isaiah and King David are not Christians, innit? Well then, is even Jesus Christ a Christian? There you go, you are just getting tied up with your own long silky rope (Kiss myteeth!)

Read the Bible again from genesis with an open mind and clear conscience then we can resume this discussion. Cha!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_hl50bzxvQ

As a matter of fact there was no Christianity before Jesus, Christianity started with Jesus Christ's Incarnation.. What is a Christianity??
It is An Abrahamic religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ and various scholars who wrote the Christian Bible.

So before Jesus there was no Christianity.. What they had was Judaism... the prophecies were written for the Jews in expectance of the messiah.. but the messianic religion (Christianity) is different from Judaism..
King David and Isaiah were not Christians, they believed in God, but they were not Christians, A Christian is a follower of Christ. before Christ there was no Christianity...
You are the one who needs to read the Bible again.. My dear...

Tampinu:
Firstly, it doesn't take a genius to overstand that if Ethiopia is first country or kingdom mentioned in the Bible and if Psalm 87 mentions that God has chosen Ethiopia above all other countries, that means that historically the Ethiopians have the books of the Faith, there's no other holy books that can supercede the ancient historical Ethiopian texts. Or how do you explain it?
God made Ethiopia first, then God waited for Greeks and Romans and who-ever else to write the books about God and Ethiopia! (Scratches head)
What kinda rationality is that?

Thanks for posting the link about our historical chat, I never denied debating with people about facts of Ethiopia, but I still cannot see the part of the debate where your comment applies...Your comments below I mean.

YOU AND I HAVE DEBATED THE ISSUE OF ETHIOPIA AND ROME IN A DIFFERENT THREAD AND I SHOWED HOW INACCURATE YOUR INFORMATION WAS...

My request in previous post was: Please post a link to any thread where you have "showed how inaccurate my information was".

It did not say: Please post a link about any general chat we had previously, the request was in soecific relation to how you claimed you "showed how inaccurate my information was".

I am still waiting for you to show me that part in the historical debate link you posted.

But like I said, you are free to carry on with your intellactual lethargy.
Go dowwwn Babylon bwwoy!

My dear.. You argument is non sequitur...
It does not follow that because Ethiopia is mentioned first in the bible therefore it has all the writings about God, or that it made the first Bible canon..
That assumption is simply false..
Psalm 87 mentions other kingdom/cities, (Babylon, Phylistia, Tyre also) According that passage and all of Christian history and Tradition, Zion refers to Jerusalem (both new and old) not Ethiopia

ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE, GOD CHOSE ISRAEL ABOVE ALL OTHER NATIONS NOT ETHIOPIA..
Ethiopia became Christian AFter The gospel spread from Jerusalem and Antioch etc.. So it doesn't have texts that supersedes any other Christian text..
Paul or Peter or James or Luke never wrote to or about Ethiopia in the bible..
IF THEY DID, Prove it..

I AM STILL WAITING FOR PROOF THAT THE ETHIOPIAN CANON PREDATES HIPPO AND CARTAGE.. JUST PROVIDE THE EVIDENCE AND I WILL CONCEDE DEFEAT IF ITS HISTORICALLY ACCURATE.. INSTEAD OF DEMEANING COMMENTS, FOUL LANGUAGE AND INSULTS

Tampinu:
Yes you're Right, Ethiopia also has good christian antiquity but then again so does Antioch, Ephesus, Rome, Galatia, Thessalonica etc.. .

So which part of the Old Testament was the above regions (in bold) mentioned? Ahhh Which means they did not come into consideration until in the new Testament. Read between the lines my friend!

Roman ass licker!

What does it matter if Ethiopia was mentioned in the old testament and Rome or Antioch or Ephesus was not... That doesn't prove anything... The fact still remains that according to the Bible...

CHRISTIANITY BEGUN IN ISREAL BY JESUS CHRIST AND THE CHURCH STARTED IN JERUSALEM ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST, THEN SPREAD TO ANTIOCH, EPHESUS, ROME, THESSALONICA WITH THE PREACHING OF THE APOSTLES.. THE CHURCHES IN THESE PLACES ARE MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE (Jerusalem, Antioch, Thessaloniki, Corinth, Colossae, Rome etc) BUT ETHIOPIA IS NOT... IF IT WAS SO IMPORTANT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MENTIONED IN BIBLICAL TIMES.. BUY APART FROM THE EUNUCH'S EXPERIENCE WITH PHILIP, NOTHING ELSE IS HEARD OF ETHIOPIA IN THE NEW TESTAMENT...

When Christianity was made the religion of the Axum Ethiopian empire in 330 the Emperor Ezana sent to Athanasius in Alexandria to appoint a bishop for them... If Ethiopia is the cradle of Christianity then why do that??
no need for foul language or insults...

Tampinu:
You keep mentioning ROME and I referred you to the Book of Romans in the accepted normal Canons of the Bible; specifically Roman 1:26 till the end of the chapter, and what did you reply? What did you have to say about that? Then you try come up a' towwn and make like you wanna teach Biblical history without factoring Africa? What you feel like?

Go read the Kebtra Negast and gain some historical insight into the full meaning of Romans 1:26 with regards to how the Romans destroyed the faith!

Why do you think Haile Selassie I's Royal titles include "Defender of the Faith"? You think it's just a convenient title?

Mind how you chat and vomit fuckry, you know!

Paul doesn't mention Africa or Ethiopia in Romans...
Secondly Paul was making a general statement...
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of MEN who by their wickedness suppress the truth.

The letter to the romans was to the Christians in Rome.. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CHRISTIANS IN ROME AND THE ROMAN EMPIRE... THE WE CALL THAT BOOK LETTER TO THE ROMANS, THESE ARE NOT THE ROMANS WHO PERSECUTED CHRISTIANS AND WORSHIPPED A PANTHEON OF GODS.. NOTE THE DIFFERENCE...

lastly, When Romans was written.. there was no taught of Haile Selassie or any other Ethiopian. Ethiopian Christianity is not superior to those who preceded and founded it...
And p.s. the title of "defender of the faith" has been used long before Hailey Selassie used it.. SO ITS NOT UNIQUE TO HIM

I still await proof that the Ethiopian orthodox Tawahedo canon predates Hippo and Carthage...

NO NEED FOR FOUL LANGUAGE.. PLEASE KEEP IT CIVIL..

Tampinu:
Not sure if I can maake head or tail of your comments aabove, it seems to display a degree of frustration and intellectual lethargy; I think you are mixing me up with another person as I don't recall debating what is an objective reality with some one. Please post a link to any thread where you have "showed how inaccurate my information was".

I referred you to the Kebra Negast and what did you reply? I copied and pasted about Tewahedo and what was your response?
Look, it's hard to wake a man up if he's pretending to be asleep, I'm not here to win arguments so I rest my case.

Peace


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfeIfiiBTfY

You are cleverly trying to avoid the question
Like I have shown.. I know about the Ethiopian orthodox tawahedo...
But you have failed again to prove to me with good historical sources that the Ethiopian canon came before the council of hippo and Carthage..

As for your claim about not debating with me.. here is a link to the thread
https://www.nairaland.com/3894170/catholics-praying-dead-saints-biblical/4#58589765

[quote author=Tampinu post=60730723][/quote]YOU AND I HAVE DEBATED THE ISSUE OF ETHIOPIA AND ROME IN A DIFFERENT THREAD AND I SHOWED HOW INACCURATE YOUR INFORMATION WAS...
in everything you pasted you failed to show that the Ethiopian canon came before the Catholic canon.
.
I know the Ethiopian canon has 81 books with the book of Enoch and jubilees etc ... according to your post... the current 81 book version was published in 1986...
Show me that the Ethiopian canon came before 393 (council of hippo) and I will believe you.. simple...NO NEED TO COPY AND PASTE THE WHOLE WIKIPEDIA... BUT DO IT WITH GOOD SOURCES

OLAADEGBU:
If Moses wrote the Pentateuch why will he only keep the decalogue in the Ark? When did the Ark get lost? Moses and Ezra compiled the OT and not the Vatican.

According to the Bible, It was the stone tablets that was in the ark not the whole old testament
Kjv
Heb 9:4which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the TABLES OF THE CONVENANT;

I never told you that the catholic Church compiled the old testament.. WHAT I SAID WAS THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ADOPTED THE SEPTUAGINT TRANSLATION OF THE OLD TESTAMENT...

OLAADEGBU:
The Septuagint was a translation of the Jewish Scriptures into Greek during the 3rd century B.C. but the Apocrypha, placed at the end was only dated in the 5th century and therefore cannot be relied upon to inform us what was in common use 500 years earlier.

What matters to me is that neither Jesus nor His apostles ever quoted from the Apocrypha even though they were using the Greek Septuagint. Even Josephus who was familiar with the Septuagint never considered the Apocrypha to be part of the inspired Word of God.

Like I have pointed out.. there are several old testament scriptures which Jesus and the apostles did. not quote from... Jesus did not quote from Songs of Solomon..Esther, Judges Nahum, Obadiah, Esther Joshua, Ruth..
SECONDLY, WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT JESUS HAS TO QUOTE FROM A BOOK FOR IT TO BE SCRIPTURE..
There are many allusions to the deuterocanonica in the new testament...

Jude 1:9 is not referenced from any of your 39 book old testament...

Rev 8:2 talks about 7 angels standing before God the only other place you find a reference like that is in tobit 12:15..

there are many other examples..

Tampinu:
So where do you place the Ethiopian Church? Bearing in mind Ethiopia is first country mentioned in the Bible Gen 2:13 and Ethiopia was first country to declare Christianity as a National religion (Since 4th Century when Ethiopian official was baptied in the Book of Act of the Apostles).
This is why TEWAHEDO is worth googling as it represents the original split in Christiandom.

ACCORDING TO HISTORY... IT WAS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH THAT FIRST COMPILED THE FULL NEW TESTAMENT AS WE KNOW IT TODAY...

I regard the Ethiopian Orthodox Church as one of the early Christian churches after the big ones ( Jerusalem, Antioch, Rome etc)...
But the fact that Ethiopia was mentioned in Gen 2:13 doesn't have anything to do with Christianity or the canon of the bible..
Secondly, the Ethiopian eunuch was present in the 1st century not the 4th century..

We hear nothing About the Ethiopian Eunuch or Ethiopian christianity after acts 8.. but according to history Socrates of Constantinople includes Ethiopia in
his list as one of the regions preached by
Matthew the Apostle,

The fact that Ethiopia was first to declare Christianity as a state religion doesn't mean they have a special right..
According to history.. It was Athanasius (patriarch of Alexandria), who appointed the first bishop(Frumentius) who was given the title (Abune Selama) for the church in Ethiopia when it became the religion of the Ethiopian Axumite kingdom under Emperor Ezana in the 4th Century...

ACCORDING TO HISTORY IT WAS THE SYNOD OF HIPPO REGIUS (393) and CARTHAGE (397), (419) that determined the FULL NEW testament canon..

blueAgent:
How has your Church disproved it?

https://m.youtube.com/results?client=mv-google&gl=NG&hl=en&search_type=search_all&q=Catholic+church&submit=Search

You can watch any of those youtube videos and tell me why your Church has too many occultic symbols and Rites.

I have seen all of those... and like I said earlier they have been refuted many times... even on the list you provided

blueAgent:
I was born in an Anglican family from there i want to Assemblies of God before locating Adventist.
You see my opnion about your Church is nothing personal becos i have worshiped in your Church severally and i have seen all the lies and decit. I was not born an Adventist so you cannot accuse me to be bais but i accepted their teacheings becos it is consistent with the word of God while your Church's teachings are not consistent with God's word.

That doesn't prove anything.. I have seen people who were born Christians went to churches and later became Muslims.. I have seen people who left the Adventist church to other denominations because unlike you, they see that its not right... I have seen people from different denominations becoming Jehovah's witnesses because of the same reason you are giving...

IT DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE...
according to the bible people will leave good Christian fellowships to join false prophets.. So changing denominations is not a criteria for truth...

According to history, early Christians, and general bible interpretation Early Christians worshipped on Sunday not the sabbath.. DEAL WITH IT...

blueAgent:
Laughable .

Is a know fact Catholic is the mystery Babalyon no matter how you deny it

What are you laughing at...
You asked how I knew that the Catholic Church didn't forge those writings AND I ANSWERED now you are saying that I am denying what you never said?
Go and Learn how to read.

As for mystery Babylon... that has been disproved and rebutted more times than I can count... And I bet you don't know the origin of that accusation too.. you just picked it up and your church has told you many funny things ...

LEARN HOW TO ACCEPT DEFEAT WITH HUMILITY AND STOP MOVING FROM ONE ACCUSATION TO THE OTHER WHEN YOU LOSE AN ARGUMENT...

blueAgent:
According to the word of God(the Bible)

According to your Adventist interpretation of the Bible... Which every other Christian Denomination reject and interpret correctly.. According to the Bible.. The Jews had the Sabbath... but the Christians had the First day of the week, the day of the resurrection.. the Lord's day..

blueAgent:
How do we know that your Church did not forge that Letter? the only credible word we can accept is those of the Bible and the bible says God's day of rest was never changed.

Because Historical sources like encyclopedia Britannica and Wikipedia and Prestigious Academic institutions have verified them...
Secondly.. Non Catholic and even anti catholic Christian who have good knowledge of history agree...

here are some examples
https://www.gci.org/law/sabbath/hanson

www.bible.ca/7-history-sabbath.htm

There are many more..
Note all of these guys are as anti Catholic as the Adventists..

blueAgent:
Heresy .

According to who?? Seventh Day Adventist... I laugh in Swahili...

[quote author=blueAgent post=60401573][/quote]I will go with historical Christianity than with the latter Day Adventist church..
here's what some early Christians had to say on the matter
The Didache
"But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas​​​​​​​
"We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]). ​​​​​​​

Ignatius of Antioch​​​​​​​

"[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr​​​​​​​
"[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us—I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . ." (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21 [A.D. 155]).

"But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).

Tertullian​​​​​​​
"[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God" (An Answer to the Jews 2 [A.D. 203]).

blueAgent:
. Instead of abolishing the Sabbath, He
carefully taught how it should be observed.
( Matthew 12:1-13.)
38. He taught His disciples that they should do
nothing upon the Sabbath day but what was
“lawful” ( Matthew 12:12.)

Amen.. It was lawful for the Jews to keep the Sabbath in the old covenant, the new covenant had not been established yet with Christ death on the Cross.. The Purpose of the Sabbath would be fulfilled in the New covenant with the LORD'S DAY..

blueAgent:
39. He instructed His apostles that the Sabbath
should be prayerfully regarded forty years
after His resurrection. ( Matthew 24:20.)

Jesus was talking about the awful horror and He used the Sabbath because they were still familiar with it.. the concept of the Lord's day had not being established yet...

blueAgent:
40. The pious women who had been with Jesus
carefully kept the seventh day after His
death. ( Luke 23:56.)

Amen.. they kept the Sabbath as good Jews as the law commanded.. The new covenant day of rest (THE RESURRECTION (LORD'S DAY) had come yet so they are right to do that..

blueAgent:
41. Thirty years after Christ's resurrection, the Holy Spirit' expressly calls it "the Sabbath day,"( Acts 13:14.)

Amen.. the Holy Spirit called the Sabbath day because that's what it is known as to the Jews.. As a Jew Paul went to the synagogue because his fellow Jews gathered there on the Sabbath, to evangelize them...

blueAgent:
42. Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, called it the
"Sabbath day" in A.D. 45. ( Acts 13:27.) Did
not Paul know? Or shall we believe modern
teachers, who affirm that it ceased to be the
Sabbath at the resurrection of Christ?

The Sabbath remained the Sabbath for the Jews, it still had its significance to them... Paul as a Jew or anyone familiar with it can call It the Sabbath, the thing is For Christians, The Spiritual significance of the Sabbath moved to the LORDS DAY (THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK)...
(see acts 2:42, 20:7,)

blueAgent:
43. Luke, the inspired Christian historian,
writing as late as A.D. 62, calls it the
"Sabbath day." ( Acts 13:44.)
44. The Gentile converts called it the Sabbath.
( Acts 13:42.)
45. In the great Christian council, A.D. 49, in the
presence of the apostles and thousands of
disciples, James calls it the "sabbath
day." ( Acts 15:21)
meetings upon that day. ( Acts 16:13.)

Amen.. Again.. the Sabbath is the name given to the seventh day, but the spiritual importance of the Sabbath has been fulfilled for Christians on the Lord's day..

blueAgent:
47. Paul read the Scriptures in public meetings
on that day. ( Acts 17:2, 3.)

On that day he went to the Thessalonica and visited the Jewish synagogue there to evangelize them.. see acts 17:1

blueAgent:
48. It was his custom to preach upon that day.
( Acts 17:2,3.)

His custom was to seek out the Jews in every town he entered and preach Jesus to them.. and the time he could get them all in one place was on the Sabbath...

blueAgent:
49. The Book of Acts alone gives a record of his
holding eighty-four meetings upon that day.
(See Acts 13:14, 44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4. 11.)

And in every case he goes to the synagogue because the Jews gathered on that day except in chapter 13 where he went to the river where prayer was to be made..

blueAgent:
50. There was never any dispute between the
Christians and the Jews about the Sabbath
day. This is proof that the Christians still
observed the same day that the Jews did.

NO ITS NOT... There was no dispute because the Jews kept the Sabbath.. the Gentile Christians kept the Lord's day (acts 20:7, 1 cor 16:2).. Some christian Jews out of fear of being cut off attended temple also in addition to keeping the Lord's day.... So there was no dispute... Judaism is not Christianity so Christians or Jews don't need to dispute their day of worship.. if you chose to be a Jew and reject the new covenant day of rest then that's left for you...

blueAgent:
51. In all their accusations against Paul, they
never charged him with disregarding the
Sabbath day. Why did they not, if he did not
keep it?

Paul being a good Jew went to the temple on the Sabbath to preach Jesus to his fellow Jews.. since they could see him in the temple on the sabbath he kept it to them... But as a Christian he knew the spiritual significance of the Sabbath was fulfilled in Jesus on the day of the Resurrection.. the Lord's day.. Besides that.. We don't find any command from Paul to the Gentiles to keep the Sabbath, they all kept the Lord's day...

blueAgent:
52. But Paul himself expressly declared that he
had kept the law. “Neither against the law of
the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet
against Caesar, have I offended any thing at
all." Acts 25:8. How could this be true if he
had not kept the Sabbath?

Paul was a good citizen.. so he obeyed the rules.. it does not mean that all Christians should keep the Sabbath because Paul a good Jew did.. There's no place in his epistles where he commanded or admonished gentile believers to keep the Sabbath.. but biblically they kept the Lord's day.... see acts 20:7, 1 cor 16:2, rev 1:10)

blueAgent:
53. The Sabbath is mentioned in the New
Testament fifty-nine times, and always with
respect, bearing the same title it had in the
Old Testament, “the Sabbath day.”

This doesn't prove anything... the new testament mentions a lot of things a lot of times.. does the new testament command gentile Christians to keep the Sabbath...
col 2:16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:17which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

so unlike the Jews the Christians kept the Day of Christ.. the Lord's day as a fulfilment of the Sabbath obligation...

blueAgent:
54. Not a word is said anywhere in the New
Testament about the Sabbath's being
abolished, done away, changed, or anything
of the kind.

The Sabbath was not changed.. it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ's resurrection on the Lords Day... So Jesus is the essence... see col 2:16..

blueAgent:
55. God has never given permission to any man
to work upon it. Reader, by what authority
do you use - the seventh day for common
labor?
56. No Christian of the New Testament, either
before or after the resurrection, ever did
ordinary work upon the seventh day. Find
one case of that kind, and we will yield the
question. Why should modem Christians do
differently from Bible Christians?

Jewish Christians yes.. but not gentile Christians that command was never given to them...

blueAgent:
57. There is no record that God has ever
removed His blessing or sanctification from
the seventh day.
58. As the Sabbath was kept in Eden before the
fall, so it will be observed eternally in the
new earth after the restitution. ( Isaiah 66:22,

As Paul said in 1 cor 15, It is Christ's ressurrection that makes Christianity what it is.. and that moment of significance happened on the first day of the week and Christians gathered on that day...
THE REST FROM SIN IS THE ULTIMATE REST MAN HAS.. AND IT WAS ACHIEVED AT THE RESURRECTION ON THE LORD'S DAY.. FULFILLING THE PURPOSE OF THE SABBATH..

blueAgent:
You could also help yourself with more facts here

https://www.sabbathtruth.com/free-resources/article-library/id/928/100-amazing-facts-about-the-sabbath-and-sunday

thanks but I will stick to the Historic and general interpretation of scripture and the testimony of the early Christians....

blueAgent:
Story. Do you know prayer is an act of Worship?

Prayers is indeed an act of worship.. but prayer in itself is not worship..

Prayer also means to petition or to request..
AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE DO.. WE REQUEST FOR THE PRAYERS F THE SAINTS IN HEAVEN,

OLD ENGLISH INTERCHANGES PRAYER WITH PETITION EVEN KJV
for example
2 cor 5:20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we PRAY you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.


PRAY HERE IS SIMPLY A REQUEST NOT THAT PAUL IS WORSHIPING THE CORINTHIANS
Other translations says
New International Version
We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We IMPLORE you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.

New Living Translation
So we are Christ's ambassadors; God is
making his appeal through us. We speak for Christ when we PLEAD, "Come back to God!"
EVEN IN COURTS ESPECIALLY IN BRITAIN AND BRITISH COLONIZED COUNTRIES USE THESE WORDS IN THEIR LAW COURT AND PARLIAMENT
, “I pray thee my lord"
According to Webster's dictionary.. Prayer means
1. ENTREAT, IMPLORE —often used
as a function word in introducing a
question, request, or plea

2. to make a request in a humble
manner
3. to address God or a god with
adoration, confession, supplication,
or thanksgiving...

EVEN IN CHRISTIANITY, THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPES OF PRAYER TO GOD,
ADORATION and BLESSING
THANKS GIVING
PRAISE
PETITION
INTERCESSION..

petition simply means to ask... Sometimes when we petition GOD There is no worship involved..

For example..
"God please protect my children" there's no worship there... just like I can tell a policeman.. "please protect my children"..
NEITHER IS WORSHIP... WORSHIP COMES IN WHEN I ADORE AND BLESS AND GLORIFY GOD ALONG WITH MY PETITION...

SO I "PRAY" YOU TO NOTE THE DIFFERENCE..

701ecilana:
Yeah? Do you think by saying you don't worship Mary and the dead saints will really mean you dont?
I was a Catholic and i said the exact same thing you are saying now.

Yes ... because you don't know what the church really taught...
I know that I don't worship Mary and the Saints because worship is an act of the WILL, if you did then you were a Heretic and an idolater.. and the Church condemns such..

701ecilana:
Who is being silly between both of us?

Who was Ignatius to write Letters to a church he didn't form? Even The Apoatle John didn't do it. Who was Ignatius?
The Letters to those Churches, Jesus wrote them through John to His Churches. Who was Ignatius?

You are the one creating a rule that is unfounded and unbiblical.. there is no rule that says YOU MUST NOT WRITE TO ANY CHURCH YOU DID NOT FOUND...

701ecilana:
Apostles Paul wrote Letters to Churches becos he planted them, who was Ignatius am asking again?

Paul wrote to Churches he didn't plant also.. For example Paul wrote to the Colossians but according to the Bible.. it was Epaphras that evangelized the Colossians and the Laodiceans.. (see col. 1:3-7),.

Peter also wrote to some Churches which he did not found... (see 2 peter 1:1)..

James wrote generally to all Jewsih Christians regardless of which church they belonged to or who founded it.. see James 1:1 etc

701ecilana:
All other Apostles wrote general letters, but your Ignatius had the affront to write a letter to the Church of Jesus?

1. ALL APostles DID NOT WRITE GENERAL LETTERS.. THERE'S NO GENERAL LETTER BY
MATHIAS, BARTHOLOMEW, JAMES OF ZEBEDEE, THOMAS ETC..

My dear a letter is simply a means of communication.. Ignatius could write because he was a Bishop, A bishop who was ordained during apostolic times..
there are many other letters written by successors of the apostles to different Churches,
SO IT WAS NOT JUST IGNATIUS WHO WROTE BUT SOME OF THOSE BISHOPS WHO WERE SUCCESSORS OF THE APOSTLES... THEY COMMUNICATED WITH CHURCHES VIA LETTERS ALSO AFTER THE APOSTLES DIED...

READ EARLY CHURCH HISTORY BY EUSEBIUS OF CAESAREA

701ecilana:
Listen, am done here, go on with attempts at perverting the gospel of Jesus.

that's what you said before yet you made this comment... Am not perverting any gospel am just correcting your knowledge of history... The new testament did not cover past the year 100AD, BUT THE CHURCH CONTINUED FROM THAT TIME... AND HISTORY RECORDS IT...

701ecilana:
You claim i lacked comprehension yet you responded to my posts accordingly.

You people have a way of trying to wriggle things your way. It just like Islam trying to fix Muhammed into the Bible.

Sir, believe it or not, Catholicism began after the Roman Empire adopted the Church as a state religion and thought it could hijack the power and manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

And did these so called Church fathers also worshipped Mary and the dead Saints?

Listen, The Bible stands true and whatever is not recorded in it is a lie. When Christ comes we shall stand before him to recieve our rewards, be they good or bad. But believe me, the Bible shall be the hardstick for judgement.

Am done going back and forth with this.

Let's wait for Jesus.

That's always the goto lines for you guys.. To lie against the catholic Church with Mary and "dead" saints.. Well I don't worship Mary and the saints.. The Church Catholic church worships only Jesus Christ, we just give honour and respect to whom it is due...
But you're right LET JESUS JUDGE..

[quote author=blueAgent post=60355302][/quote]Historical Christianity as well as Protestant, Pentecostal and Evangelical Christians believe according to the Bible that Christians worshiped on Sunday.. not on the sabbath.. THAT IS AN ADVENTIST LIE

Can you provide historical OR BIBLICAL EVIDENCE THAT CHRISTIANS WORSHIPPED GOD ON SABBATH SPECIFICALLY OR SEQUENTIALLY,

OLAADEGBU:
You keep repeating the same error that has been drilled into you. The OT saints recognised the God-breathed words as soon as they were spoken or written and then kept them in the Ark of the Covenant. They did not have to wait for the Vatican to come and tell them that it was the Word of God. God did not reveal His Word again after the last OT writer had penned down the last book in the OT. There was a period of 400 silent years called the dark ages when God did not speak to His people until the first book of the NT was written. The OT saints by then were no more. The Apocrypha got written during the dark ages when God ceased to speak to His people and that is what you Roman Catholics erroneously call the inspired Word of God.

My dear you are the one repeating error that has been drilled into you...

1. It was only the stone tablets that contains the ten commandments that was put into the ark (see Hebrews 9:4).. not the entire old testament.. There was no book of Genesis, Exodus etc not to talk about Malachi at the Time of the ark of the covenant before and after it was lost... The old testament was still being written.. so how can it contain the 39 book old testament.. the ark was made in the time of Moses and everything was put into it then.. (see ex 25)... THAT IS A LIE YOU PEOPLE TOLD YOURSELVES..

secondly The Deuterocanon.. was part of the translation made by the "seventy" Jewish elders in the Septuagint which Jesus and the apostles read... The Church just took what the Jews used historically...

We call them scriptures because according to the Jews who translated the Hebrew scriptures in Greek which the Jews used for hundreds of years called them so... So if God allowed for them to be called scriptures for hundreds of years and Jesus and the apostles read from them and even made references and allusions to them then It is accurate to call them part of the old testament

where in the bible does it say Christians worshipped God on the Sabbath..