₦airaland Forum

DoctorAlien:
Mary is now a secondary mediator? Okay. Why aren't you chanting my name and begging for mediation? Is Mary more of a secondary mediator than I am, being a child of GOD?

Those in heaven will leave Heaven to come and have bodily resurrection on earth? Why did Paul say that the dead in Christ will "rise"? Why did he not say that they will descend from Heaven?

We all secondary mediators as Christians in that we bring Christ to the World..
2 cor 5:18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation;

SO GOD THROUGH CHRIST... THEN US THROUGH CHRIST BRING OTHERS BACK TO GOD...

YES MARY IS A SECONDARY MEDIATOR JUST LIKE ALL OF US... BUT SHE IS UNIQUE BECAUSE SHE BROUGHT CHRIST TO ALL THE WORLD WHILE WE BRING CHRIST TO ONE ANOTHER...

Jesus's body had not risen but he was active (1 peter 3:19), Our soul lives beyond our body's death... at the second coming our soul will be reunited with a resurrected and transformed body

DoctorAlien:
Jesus says that anyone who does the will of GOD is His mother. I am doing the will of GOD. Why aren't you offering prayers to me as the mother of GOD?

because
1. You cant prove that you are doing the will of God with your life (mat 7:16) na only for your mouth i dey hear am... but the bible bears witness to Mary... both in her perfect biological motherhood and her perfect obedience to the will of God ...

luke 1:38 And Mary said, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.

2. Jesus did not give you to the beloved to be "our" mother... he gave Mary...
You were not there at the important moments of Jesus life.. Mary was..
3. Jesus didnt obey you.... He obeyed her...
4. No be you born Jesus... Jesus didnt suck your breast as a baby... You didnt carry Jesus.... i could go on and on...
5. FINALLY YOU DONT HAVE THE "PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP MARY HAS WITH JESUS...

COMPARED TO YOU OR ANY OTHER CHRISTIAN MARY HAS A BETTER PLACE WITH HER SON... NOT JUST BECAUSE SHE BIRTHED HIM... BUT BECAUSE SHE DID THE WILL OF GOD PERFECTLY...JESUS OBEYED HER (at the wedding in cana (john 2:1-12) AND WHILE HE WAS GROWING UP IN NAZARETH (luke 2: 51)..Besides that... she was present at every significant moment in Jesus's life and ministry....1. when he was conceived (luke 1:38-46)2. when he was born (luke 2:7)3. While he was growing up (luke 2:51-end)4. When he performed his first miracle that began his ministry (john 2:1-12)5. When his ministry was ending (at the cross) (john 19:25-27)6. With the disciples in the upper room after the resurrection (acts 1:14)

DoctorAlien:
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ." 1 Tim. 2:5

Nonsense! Mary is not even in heaven now, not to talk of being your mediator. Mary will only get to Heaven when Christ returns(1 Thess. 4:16-18).

Dr Alien... my guy...
All of your points have been addressed before...

1 tim 2:5 talks about MEDIATOR...Mary is an intercessor or secondary mediator and the bible encourages intercession among Christians
1 tim 2:2 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. 3 This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Concerning 1 thess 4, the context doesnt mean there is no one in heaven... what it means is that Those who have died will have a bodily resurrection on the last day... which the Catholic church believes and teaches.... IT DOESNT SAY THAT NO ONE IS IN HEAVEN NOW... BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY VERSES THAT SAY THE EXACT OPPOSITE...

An2elect2:
Look at you!

There is no running away from the truth. They are trying to explain A isn't A but B.

My dear continue hiding behind one passage....

reminder.. Your false dichotomy doesn't work logically...

You are the one trying to force one passage to say what it must mean...

An2elect2:

But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother

Are you not tired of being debunked?

Loolll... see who is debunking....

An2elect2:

But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother

John 14:6 _
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


Jesus over you any day any time

ANOTHER ANGLE FOR YOU... HIS DISCIPLES ARE HIS BROTHERS RIGHT... AND HE GAVE JOHN (THE BELOVED) A DISCIPLE, A BROTHER, HIS MOTHER TO BE HIS MOTHER... MAKING THE FAMILY COMPLETE....

GOD THE FATHER, CREATOR AND GOD, JESUS OUR BROTHER, MARY JESUS' MOTHER, IF JESUS IS OUR BROTHER THEN HIS MOTHER WOULD BE OUR MOTHER TOO... AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE DID

John 19:26 When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” 27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!”

An2elect2:

But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother

John 14:6 _
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


Jesus over you any day any time

Indeed.... Jesus said that... but not in the context you're taking it...

She is his Mother whether you like it or not

Acts 1:14 All these with one accord devoted themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary THE MOTHER OF Jesus, and with his brethren.

John 19:26 When Jesus SAW HIS MOTHER, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” 27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!”


SHE IS HIS MOTHER WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT...
AND HE GAVE HER TO THE DISCIPLE HE LOVED TO BE HIS MOTHER... JESUS LOVES US SO WE WILL GLADLY TAKE HIS MOTHER AS OUR OWN...

An2elect2:
Mary was present only at the Cana wedding at that particular time, was she also "interceding" for other helpless people outside there?

Was there any Christian in the Bible who went to Jesus through Mary when she was alive talk more of in her death?

The facts are against you

Do you really want to know who Jesus' mother is, look outside, it is any woman who is doing His father's will.

Matthew 12:46-50

While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother

Sorry buddy God can't fit into that tiny box you have for Him.

1. The wedding at canna is an example of Mary's intercession whether you like it or not... IF SHE COULD DO IT AT CANA.. THEN SHE CAN DO IT OUTSIDE CANA OR ANYWHERE ELSE..

2. The scripture doesnt have to record every time someone asks for Mary's intercession before it is accepted that Mary can intercede for people with her DIVINE SON..

3. the wedding at canna example is there, and it is recorded that The disciples believed in him because of the miracle he performed at his Mother's intercession..

John 2:11 This, the first of his signs, Jesus did at Cana in Galilee, and manifested his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

4. You are creating a false dichotomy... Jesus was not destroying his biological bonds with Mary... He is merely establishing the Kingdom family... Telling us that we can be his brothers too...

MARY MORE SO BECAUSE SHE IS NOT JUST HIS MOTHER BIOLOGICALLY BUT SHE ALSO "DID THE WILL OF HIS FATHER PERFECTLY" luke 1: 38 And Mary said, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” 
... SO SHE IS THE PERFECT CHRISTIAN BECAUSE SHE HAS BOTH BIOLOGICAL AND SPIRITUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS..

COMPARED TO YOU OR ANY OTHER CHRISTIAN MARY HAS A BETTER PLACE WITH HER SON... NOT JUST BECAUSE SHE BIRTHED HIM... BUT BECAUSE SHE DID THE WILL OF GOD PERFECTLY...
JESUS OBEYED HER (at the wedding in cana (john 2:1-12) AND WHILE HE WAS GROWING UP IN NAZARETH (luke 2: 51)..
Besides that... she was present at every significant moment in Jesus's life and ministry....
1. when he was conceived (luke 1:38-46)
2. when he was born (luke 2:7)
3. While he was growing up (luke 2:51-end)
4. When he performed his first miracle that began his ministry (john 2:1-12)
5. When his ministry was ending (at the cross) (john 19:25-27)
6. With the disciples in the upper room after the resurrection (acts 1:14)


You are the one trying to confine God's power by comparing his omniscience to only 1 billion people..

An2elect2:
No human or anything created is omniscient or omnipresent to simultaneously answer prayers except God. Biblical and Logical fact you need to deal with.

I think i addressed this on another thread...

Logically... if its not infinite prayers it doesnt require omniscience... But since catholics are less than 15% percent of the human race... then it doesnt require omniscience...

EVEN DEMONS AND DEVILS DEY HEAR WHEN THEM INVOKE THEM... HOW MUCH MORE GLORIFIED CHRISTIANS IN HEAVEN...

i will repost somethings from the other thread... here goes

The Saints and Mary don't need omniscience or omnipresence because...Firstly, statistically there are over 1 billion catholics against the world population of over 7 billion which is less than 20% of it... In that 1 billion Catholics you have cultural catholics, church goers and many more who don't pray to the saints or Mary... So technically they don't even need omniscience all they need is less than 1 billion "Scient" which is not upto 20% of the world's population... Which is nothing compared to God who is "OMNIPOTENT, OMNIPRESENT AND OMNISCIENT...
GOD KNOWS EVERY HUMAN BEING, NOT JUST EVERY CHRISTIAN, NOT JUST EVERY CATHOLIC.... HE KNOWS EVERY THING THAT EXISTS ON EARTH, PLANTS, ANIMALS, EVERY PLANET IN THE UNIVERSE, EVERY UNIVERSE IN ALL THE GALAXIES....SO COMPARED TO GODS OMNISCIENCE, THE SAINTS ABILITY TO HEAR OR BE AWARE OF PRAYERS MADE TO THEM IS NOT OMNISCIENCE AND DOES NOT REQUIRE OMNIPRESENCE....

Secondly.. You assume that the those in heaven will have the same consciousness or abilities we have... Which is wrong... According to the bible. We will not be limited by time and space as we are now...Here's what the bible says
1 john 3: 2 Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
1 cor 15: 44 It is sown a physical body, it's raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body.
49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. SO WE WILL BE "LIKE GOD"...
and as Paul says in 1 cor 2: 9 But, as it miswritten,“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived,what God has prepared for those who love him,”
Jesus himself says in luke 20: 35 but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, 36 for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection...
SO IT IS CLEAR THAT WE WONT REMAIN THE SAME... WE WILL BE TRANSFORMED... WE WOULD BE LIKE"ANGELS" MEANING EARTHLY RULES WILL NO LONGER APPLY...THERE IS ALSO BIBLICAL EVIDENCE FOR PEOPLE IN HEAVEN BEING AWARE OF THINGS ON EARTH WITHOUT NEEDING OMNISCIENCE OR OMNIPRESENCE
Heb 12:1 says we have so great a "cloud of witnesses" who cheer us on as we run the race... THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SEE US TO "WITNESS" AND THEY DONT REQUIRE OMNIPRESENCE OR OMNISCIENCE FOR THAT..TAKE NOTE.. US MEANS ALL THE CHRISTIANS WHICH NUMBER UP TO BILLIONS..

Luke 15:7 says there is great rejoicing in heaven when a sinner repents... IT SAYS JOY IN HEAVEN.. SO EVERY ONE IN HEAVEN.. ANGELS, SAINTS EVERYONE...How can they rejoice if they dont know what is happening... THERE ARE BILLIONS OF SINNERS ALSO... AND THEY DONT NEED OMNISCIENCE TO KNOW THAT...

Rev 6:9 says the dead martyrs under God's altar were crying for vengeance.. They apparently knew that their killers were alive on Earth and they didnt need OMNISCIENCE TO KNOW THAT..To conclude..
OMNIPRESENCE/OMNISCIENCE = INFINITE, IMMEASURABLE, UNCOUNTABLE..

less than 1 billion catholics = FINITE, COUNTABLE, MEASURABLE

GOD'S POWER IS INFINITE, HIS KNOWLEDGE IS IMMEASURABLE, HE IS EVERYWHERE, SO YOU LIMIT GOD'S POWER BY CONFINING HIS POWER TO LESS THAN 20% OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION AND YOU ALSO LIMIT THOSE IN HEAVEN BY ASSUMING THEY WOULD STILL BE LIKE US IN THEIR GLORIOUS STATE..

therefore it is wrong to say it requrires omni (potence, presence or science) to hear just 1 billion prayers or request for prayers...

SATELLITES WHICH ARE MAN MADE CAN PROCESS PHONE SIGNALS, INTERNET SERVICES, CONTROL TRAFFIC, MONITOR PEOPLE AND PLACES ETC SIMULTANEOUSLY WITHOUT BEING OMNISCIENT OR OMNIPRESENCE... I BELIEVE THAT IN OUR GLORIOUS STATE WE CAN ATLEAST HAVE THE ABILITIES OF A MAN MADE SATELLITE....

blueAgent:
Where is it written that angels cannot die?

It somewhere in there...

but just in case you didn't see it... JESUS HIMSELF SAID IT IN LUKE 20

KJV
Luke 20: 36a neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels;

RSVCE
Luke 20:36a 36 for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels

THEY CANNOT DIE ANYMORE BECAUSE THEY ARE EQUAL TO THE ANGELS MEANING ANGELS CANNOT DIE...

blueAgent:
I never said the adventist site had any authority. the only authority that is acceptable is the one of the Bible and the Adventist views on there site is backed by real bible verses.Explain to me how the Devil the genesis of evil would be destoryed while sinners would burn for eternity or tell me what the Bible meant when it said sinners will face the second death

So if i or any other christian quotes the bible as our authority.. we are twisting it... but the adventist church always interprets it correctly right?

1. I never told you that the devil would be destroyed.... while sinners would suffer eternally...
the devil was an angel (lucifer) and ANGELS CANNOT DIE as Jesus said in luke 20: 36 for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection..
The devil and sinners will suffer together as the bible says in mat 25:41, rev 14:11, Rev 20:10 etc which are quoted below..

2. The second death is not annihilation as your church wrongly teach.. it is also called the LAKE OF FIRE... BUT IT NO WHERE MENTIONS THAT EXISTENCE CEASES THERE...

Rev 21: 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the LAKE that burns with FIRE and brimstone, WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH .”

Rev20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH, THE LAKE OF FIRE; 15 and if any one’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE.
So the Bible calls the "LAKE OF FIRE" THE SECOND DEATH...

AND THAT'S WHERE THE DEVIL AND ALL SINNERS WILL BE.. AND THEY WILL BE TORMENTED THEIR FOREVER AND EVER...
Matthew 25:41
"Then He will also say to those on His
left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones,
into the ETERNAL FIRE WHICH HAS BEEN PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS;
rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOREVER AND EVER.

IT DOESNT MENTION ANNIHILATION OR THAT THEY WILL CEASE TO EXIST...

and it agrees with the rest of the bible...
ETERNAL PUNISHMENT (mat 25:31-46, Daniel 12:2)

Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to EVERLASTING LIFE, and some to shame and EVERLASTING CONTEMPT.

mat 25: 46 And they will go away into ETERNAL PUNISHMENT, but the righteous into ETERNAL LIFE .”
more bible passages for you to ponder
mark 9:43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go to hell, to the UNQUENCHABLE fire.
48 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.

Hebrews 6:2
of instruction about washings and laying
on of hands, and the resurrection of the
dead and ETERNAL JUDGEMENT .


ETERNAL = EVERLASTING = UNENDING = FOREVER AND EVER..

HOW CAN THE PUNISHMENT OR REWARD BE ETERNAL IF THOSE WHO ARE REWARDED OR PUNISHED ARE NOT

blueAgent:
Same twisting of Bible verses.

It seems if you cant refute an argument you accuse the person of twisting scripture... Who gave you the authority to accuse someone of twisting scripture??
Are you the sole interpreter??
Answer the simple question then..
You said forever or eternal doesnt mean unending... now all those passages relating to God having glory and dominion and power and kingship forever and ever or eternally..

IF FOR YOU ETERNAL OR FOREVER DOESNT MEAN UNENDING THEN WILL GOD'S DOMINION OR POWER OR GLORY OR REIGN COME TO AN END

IF NOT.. WHY DO YOU INTERPRET IT DIFFERENTLY FROM ETERNAL PUNISHMENT (mat 25:46) OR THE SMOKE OF THEIR TORMENT RISING FOREVER AND EVER (rev 14: 11)

i await your response

onyenze123:
I form the light and create darkness, I bring
prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD,
do all these things
Isaiah 45:7



After sending his only begotten son to die on the cross (blood sacrifice) for the sins of the world, why do we still have disasters as a result of our original sins?( according to you)

God being all knowing and knowing fully well that man (Adam) would eat the forbidden fruit that will cause disasters allowed it to happen, why?



If that is the case, then he is not a loving God.

1. When God was creating the earth.. He did not create disaster as part of his original design in the 6 days of creation... and the bible in genesis 1and 2 records that God said that all he had created was GOOD... DISASTER IS NOT A GOOD... DISASTER IS A CONSEQUENCE OF SIN BUT A CREATION ANYWAY... Disaster is indeed a creation of God.. but not a direct creation... it is a consequence of sin... but a creation non the less... so it doesn't contradict that passage...

2. Because the plan of salvation has not been accomplished yet... that will happen at the close of the age... and secondly... not every person chose to accept Christ's sacrifice... it is only when you accept Christ that it would apply to you... So since there are still people who refuse to accept Christ and his sacrifice and still choose to sin... the consequences will still be there until God comes to judge at the end of the age

3. free will... God gave them a chance to choose him... but they disobey... if he didn't give them that right to choose then we would all be robots because all we can do is what God wants us to do...

GOD GAVE US FREE WILL SO THAT WE CAN FREELY CHOOSE HIM OUT OF LOVE... ITS NOT LOVE IF YOU DONT HAVE A CHOICE.. AND OUR CHOICE HAD ITS CONSEQUENCE

onyenze123:
Why would a loving God create disasters for his creatures?

God didnt create disasters for his creatures.. man chose to sin because of freewill and sin brought disasters and that loving father has sent his son to be the way he reconciles the world to himself... God allows evil to happen so that he can bring a greater good out of it...

blueAgent:
As usual,you are twisting Bible verses to suit your false doctrine.The Bible makes it clear that the Soul can die Ezeikel18:4,and that the wages of Sin is death.most christains fall for the big lie that the Soul is immortal and hence Hell fire is for eternity.God himself has pronounced judgement on the Devil and fallen Angels to destoryed them and turn them to ashes. Ezekiel 28:17 "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee"
You could read from verse 1.
More bible verses on Hellfire click here.


www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4988/t/is-the-devil-in-charge-of-hell

Secondly the Bible in Revelation2:11,Rev20:6, Rev20:14, Rev21:8 talks about sinners to die the second death in the lake of fire.
How does second death mean immortality?
The word eternal and forever does not mean something that does not end.just click this link and discover the truth.

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/30/t/hell-fire--a-twisted-truth-untangled

Eternal doesnt mean undending and you say am twisting sciptures... my friend... free yourself from heresy...
your amazing facts adventist site is not an authority neither...

ETERNAL DOESNT MEAN UNENDING

WHAT DOES IT MEAN THEN??

second death doesnt mean annihiliation

Jesus tells us the fate of the righteous and the Wicked in
mat 25:46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

IF ETERNAL DOESNT MEAN UNENDING THEN HEAVEN FOR THOSE WHO MAKE IT WILL COME TO AN END ONE DAY....

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

I YOU OPINION FOREVER AND EVER WILL HAVE AN END RIGHT..

Revelation 11:15
Then the seventh angel sounded; and
there were loud voices in heaven, saying,
"The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of His
Christ; and He will reign forever and
ever."

Psalm 146:10
The LORD will reign forever, Your God, O
Zion, to all generations. Praise the
LORD!

Psalm 10:16
The LORD is King forever and ever;
Nations have perished from His land.

Daniel 6:26
"I make a decree that in all the dominion
of my kingdom men are to fear and
tremble before the God of Daniel; For He
is the living God and enduring forever,
And His kingdom is one which will not be
destroyed, And His dominion will be
forever.

Micah 4:7
"I will make the lame a remnant And the
outcasts a strong nation, And the LORD
will reign over them in Mount Zion From
now on and forever.

1 Timothy 1:17
Now to the King eternal, immortal,
invisible, the only God, be honor and
glory forever and ever. Amen.

1 Peter 5:11
To Him be dominion forever and ever.
Amen.

IF FOREVER AND EVER DOESN'T MEAN UNENDING THEN GOD'S GLORY AND POWER AND DOMINION AND KINGSHIP AND REIGN CANT BE UNENDING ACCORDING TO THESE BIBLE PASSAGES... AND IF YOU THINK IT MEANS UNENDING HERE... THEN WHY DO YOU INTERPRET IT DIFFERENTLY

here are more verses for you to ponder over

1. "And a second time they said,
"Hallelujah! Her smoke rises up forever
and ever," ( Rev. 19:3 ).
2. "And the devil who deceived them was
thrown into the lake of fire and
brimstone, where the beast and the
false prophet are also; and they will be
tormented day and night forever and
ever," ( Rev. 20:10 ).
3. "to whom be the glory forevermore,
Amen" ( Gal. 1:5 )
4. "Now to our God and Father be the
glory forever and ever. Amen," ( Phil.
4:20 )
5. "Now to the King eternal, immortal,
invisible, the only God, be honor and
glory forever and ever. Amen," ( 1 Tim.
1:17 ).
6. "The Lord will deliver me from every
evil deed, and will bring me safely to
His heavenly kingdom; to Him be the
glory forever and ever. Amen," ( 2 Tim.
4:18 ).
7. "equip you in every good thing to do
His will, working in us that which is
pleasing in His sight, through Jesus
Christ, to whom be the glory forever
and ever. Amen," ( Heb. 13:21 ).
8. "Whoever speaks, let him speak, as it
were, the utterances of God; whoever
serves, let him do so as by the
strength which God supplies; so that in
all things God may be glorified through
Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the
glory and dominion forever and ever.
Amen," ( 1 Pet. 4:11 ).
9. "and He has made us to be a kingdom,
priests to His God and Father; to Him
be the glory and the dominion forever
and ever. Amen," ( Rev. 1:6 ).
10. "and the living One; and I was dead,
and behold, I am alive forevermore, and
I have the keys of death and of
Hades," ( Rev. 1:18 ).
11. "And when the living creatures give
glory and honor and thanks to Him who
sits on the throne, to Him who lives
forever and ever," ( Rev. 4:9 ).
12. "the twenty-four elders will fall down
before Him who sits on the throne, and
will worship Him who lives forever and
ever, and will cast their crowns before
the throne," ( Rev. 4:10 ).
13. "And every created thing which is in
heaven and on the earth and under the
earth and on the sea, and all things in
them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits
on the throne, and to the Lamb, be
blessing and honor and glory and
dominion forever and ever," ( Rev.
5:13 ).
14. "Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom
and thanksgiving and honor and power
and might, be to our God forever and
ever. Amen," ( Rev. 7:12 ).
15. "and swore by Him who lives forever
and ever, who created heaven and the
things in it, and the earth and the
things in it, and the sea and the things
in it, that there shall be delay no
longer," ( Rev. 10:6 ).
16. "And the seventh angel sounded; and
there arose loud voices in heaven,
saying, 'The kingdom of the world has
become the kingdom of our Lord, and
of His Christ; and He will reign forever
and ever,'" ( Rev. 11:15 ).
17. "And one of the four living creatures
gave to the seven angels seven golden
bowls full of the wrath of God, who
lives forever and ever," ( Rev. 15:7 ).
18. "And there shall no longer be any
night; and they shall not have need of
the light of a lamp nor the light of the
sun, because the Lord God shall
illumine them; and they shall reign
forever and ever," ( Rev. 22:5 ).

onyenze123:
1. A quote from Einstein.

2. It is important for the world to have one religion. The more united the human race are, the more we progress.

3. I don't need you to agree with me. let me ask you a question: Does God interfere in the affairs of men?

4. Authority? It was written under the authority of truth. You will understand better when you answer the above question

1. Einstein is a smart man but smartness or been intellectual doesn't translate to being inspired by God or being spiritual

2. this i actually agree with... unity is one of the signs of Jesus prayed for Christians to convert the world (john 17:21).. and the thousands of denominations spreading different teachings is not helping that...

3. You're damn right i don't...
The Bible as a whole talks about God interfering in the affairs of Men from Adam to Abraham to David to Us

4. How do i know it was written under the authority of truth?? is it because Einstein wrote it which i have to confirm myself?? Einstein is not a theologian, neither is he a Bishop... And Einstein is definitely not infallible so why do i have to believe his "truth"..

P.s Whats the point of the write up in the first place and why is it relevant here??

secondly can you provide proof that Einstein actually wrote this... i need a citation please..
thanks

onyenze123:
“The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual,it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity.”

Who did you copy this from??

Why id it important?

why should i agree with it??

with what authority was it written??

Amberon11:
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men , the Man Christ Jesus ,

I won't even go back and forth, that verse is clear enough.

That verse said MEDIATOR NOT INTERCESSOR.. CONTEXT IS KEY...IT MEANS JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT BECAUSE HE ALONE DIED FOR US AND IS BOTH MAN AND GOD... THE NEXT VERSE CLARIFIES THIS

1 tim 2:6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time.

So because only Jesus gave himself up for us... he is the ONE MEDIATOR...
.1 john 2: 2 says something similar "and he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world."

We know we have many intercessors... intercessors are people who pray for us or offer prayers on our behalf...

We can pray for one another (1 tim 2:1-4),

the holy spirit helps us to pray (romans 8:26-27)

the Elders offer our prayers to God (rev 5:8 )

the Angels offer our prayers to God (rev 8:3)

.

An2elect2:
Only God is omnipresent...but those who pray to saints and one Mary insist there are other omnipresent beings too

Actually omnipresence is not needed... It would be more like OMNISCIENCE which means knowing all things... JUST LIKE I DON'T NEED TO BE WHERE YOU ARE TO TALK TO YOU... ALL I NEED TO DO IS HEAR FROM YOU... I can call you on the phone... Write a letter.. Send a mail.. etc
So the saints and Mary don't need omnipresence... More like omniscience... AND THEY DONT EVEN NEED THAT...

Omnipresence means being everywhere and The Catholic Church teaches that only God is Omnipresent...


The Saints and Mary don't need omniscience or omnipresence because...

Firstly, statistically there are over 1 billion catholics against the world population of over 7 billion which is less than 20% of it... In that 1 billion catholics you have cultural catholics, church goers and many more who don't pray to the saints or Mary... So technically they don't every need omniscience all they need is less than 1 billion "Scient" which is not upto 20% of the world's population... Which is nothing compared to God who is "OMNIPOTENT, OMNIPRESENT AND OMNISCIENT... GOD KNOWS EVERY HUMAN BEING, NOT JUST EVERY CHRISTIAN, NOT JUST EVERY CATHOLIC.... HE KNOWS EVERY THING THAT EXISTS ON EARTH, PLANTS, ANIMALS, EVERY PLANET IN THE UNIVERSE, EVERY UNIVERSE IN ALL THE GALAXIES....

SO COMPARED TO GODS OMNISCIENCE, THE SAINTS ABILITY TO HEAR OR BE AWARE OF PRAYERS MADE TO THEM IS NOT OMNISCIENCE AND DOES NOT REQUIRE OMNIPRESENCE....

Secondly.. You assume that the those in Heaven will have the same consciousness or abilities we have... Which is wrong... According to the bible. We will not be limited by time and space as we are now...
Here's what the bible says

1 john 3: 2 Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

1 cor 15: 44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body.
49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shallalso bear the image of the man of heaven.
SO WE WILL BE "LIKE GOD"...

and as Paul says in 1 cor 2: 9 But, as it is written,
“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived,
what God has prepared for those who love him,”
Jesus himself says in luke 20: 35 but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, 36 for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection...
SO IT IS CLEAR THAT WE WONT REMAIN THE SAME... WE WILL BE TRANSFORMED... WE WOULD BE LIKE "ANGELS" MEANING EARTHLY RULES WILL NO LONGER APPLY...


THERE IS ALSO BIBLICAL EVIDENCE FOR PEOPLE IN HEAVEN BEING AWARE OF THINGS ON EARTH WITHOUT NEEDING OMNISCIENCE OR OMNIPRESENCE
Heb 12:1 says we have so great a "cloud of witnesses" who cheer us on as we run the race... THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SEE US TO "WITNESS" AND THEY DONT REQUIRE OMNIPRESENCE OR OMNISCIENCE FOR THAT..
TAKE NOTE.. US MEANS ALL THE CHRISTIANS WHICH NUMBER UP TO BILLIONS..

Luke 15:7 says there is great rejoicing in heaven when a sinner repents... IT SAYS JOY IN HEAVEN.. SO EVERY ONE IN HEAVEN.. ANGELS, SAINTS EVERYONE...
How can they rejoice if they dont know what is happening... THERE ARE BILLIONS OF SINNERS ALSO... AND THEY DONT NEED OMNISCIENCE TO KNOW THAT...

Rev 6:9 says the dead martyrs under God's altar were crying for vengeance.. They apparently knew that their killers were alive on Earth and they didnt need OMNISCIENCE TO KNOW THAT..

To conclude..
OMNIPRESENCE/OMNISCIENCE = INFINITE, IMMEASURABLE, UNCOUNTABLE..

less than 1 billion catholics = FINITE, COUNTABLE, MEASURABLE

GOD'S POWER IS INFINITE, HIS KNOWLEGE IS IMMEASURABLE, HE IS EVERYWHERE, SO YOU LIMIT GOD'S POWER BY CONFINING HIS POWER TO LESS THAN 20% OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION AND YOU ALSO LIMIT THOSE IN HEAVEN BY ASSUMING THEY WOULD STILL BE LIKE US IN THEIR GLORIOUS STATE..
therefore it is wrong to say it requrires omni (potence, presence or science) to hear just 1 billion prayers or request for prayers...

SATELLITES WHICH ARE MAN MADE CAN PROCESS PHONE SIGNALS, INTERNET SERVICES, CONTROL TRAFFIC, MONITOR PEOPLE AND PLACES ETC SIMULTANEOUSLY WITHOUT BEING OMNISCIENT OR OMNIPRESENCE... I BELIEVE THAT IN OUR GLORIOUS STATE WE CAN ATLEAST HAVE THE ABILITIES OF A MAN MADE SATELLITE....

onyenze123:
bravesoul247

free yourself from doctrines and dogmas.

you can pray for Mary intercession if you like or you can communicate to Jesus directly.

Be free

Dear friend, there's nothing wrong with doctrines and dogma, i can understand if you don't like Catholic teachings... but doctrines and dogmas are part of the christian faith...The apostles taught doctrines.... All Churches teach doctrine so dont tell him to free himself from doctrine... because all you're doing is telling him to reject catholic doctrine for some other doctrine....

AND ON PRAYING TO MARY... TO US CATHOLICS IT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY FROM JESUS BECAUSE WE ONLY ASK HER TO PRAY FOR US AS A MOTHER WOULD HELP HER CHILDREN NOT AS A GODDESS AND HELP US WITH HER SON... WE PRAY TO JESUS ALSO AS GOD THAT HE IS... WE END PRAYERS IN JESUS NAME TOO.. WE PRAY TO THE HOLY SPIRIT HECK EVEN THE PRAYERS TO MARY HAVE JESUS TO THEM...

SO STOP DRAWING A FALSE DICHOTOMY... ITS NOT EITHER JESUS OR MARY TO US... ITS BOTH... JESUS FIRST THEN WE CAN ASK OTHER TO PRAY FOR US TOO...

WE ARE A FAMILY OF FAITH AND WE HELP EACH OTHER..

Iamabod:
Through history... and what have read so far about catholism.... It simply an Organisation.... leaving under the umbrella of Christianity....

My dear... every Christian Church is an organization... whichever denomination you belong to is an organization too...

Jesus intended for his Church to be an "organization" of believers... that why he told his apostles to make "disciples of all nations" (mat 28:19-end), that's why the early church is called the "community of believers" having things in common (acts 4:32).... that's why the it is called the "body of Christ" (romans 12, 1 cor 12, Ephe 4), and the "household of God" (1 tim 3:15) and its not just a spiritual, invisible body but also a physical and visible one because Jesus said in his prayer for believers in John 17:21 that his followers will be physically united for the world to see and also in mat 5:14 that we are to be a city set upon a hill that cannot be hidden......
that and all the Churches in the bible were "organizations" of people with bishops as the head...

ON THE ISSUE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH... SIMPLE HISTORY WILL TELL YOU THAT IT IS LONGEST EXISTING CHRISTIAN CHURCH... I BET IT WAS THERE BEFORE YOUR DENOMINATION WAS FOUNDED BY A MAN... NOW WHO WOULD BE HIDING UNDER CHRISTIANITY THE LONGEST EXISTING CHRISTIAN CHURCH THAT HAS BEEN AROUND FOR 2000 YEARS OR A BARELY 100 YRS OLD DENOMINATION... AS UBENEDICTUS SAID... HAVE SOME RESPECT FOR ELDERS

blueAgent:
And where in the Bible is the Soul mentioned as having immortality?

JUST TO CLARIFY THOUGH...

Immortality according to Webster means unending existence/exempt from death and Oxford means to live forever... both of which equate to or are synonymous with ETERNAL LIFE

BUT

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GOD'S IMMORTALITY AND HUMANS OR ANGEL'S IMMORTALITY

GOD IS IMMORTAL IN THE SENSE THAT HE HAS NO BEGINNING AND NO END... WHILE THAT OF MAN HAS A BEGINNING (i.e. from when we are born)..
I KNOW YOUR GO TO PASSAGE OF 1 TIM 6:16 AND I BELIEVE IT IN THAT SENSE...

BUT I DONT ACCEPT THAT HUMAN AND OR ANGELS DONT HAVE IMMORTALITY ... BECAUSE GOD PROMISED IMMORTALITY WITH HIM TO US CHRISTIANS...

1 tim 6:12 Fight the good fight of the faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called

Romans 2:6 For he will render to every man according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and IMMORTALITY, he will give eternal life..

THEN FINALLY JESUS TALKS ABOUT THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD IN LUKE 20 AND HE SAID WE SHALL BE LIKE THE ANGELS... AND WE KNOW ANGELS DONT DIE... EVEN THE FALLEN ANGELS DID NOT DIE....
SO IF WE ARE LIKE THE ANGELS THEN WE CANNOT DIE EITHER UNLESS GOD CHOOSES TO ANNIHILATE US... OF WHICH WE KNOW HE WILL NOT...
luke 20:36 for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. AND HE WENT FURTHER TO SAY ABOUT THOSE WHO ARE BODILY DEAD... luke 20:38 Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living; for all live to him...

blueAgent:
And where in the Bible is the Soul mentioned as having immortality?

The verse you quoted above is one example... 1 cor 15:23, Where it talks about us being transformed... it is clear that our mortal bodies will be destroyed when we die... but our souls will not be and we will be transformed with our glorified bodies... WITHOUT OUR SOULS BEING DESTROYED HENCE WE LIVE FOREVER... If our body and soul is destroyed then how are we transformed since there would be nothing of us to transform... since obviously our mortal bodies have been destroyed... ( As Scripture says, “The dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it” (Eccl. 12:7).

Other passages that show immortality or living forever are Psalm 22:26 ; 23:6 ; 49:7-9 ; Ecclesiastes 12:7 ; Daniel 12:2-3 ; Matthew 25:46 ; and 1 Corinthians 15:12-19 . Daniel 12:2 says, “Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.” Similarly, Jesus Himself said that the wicked “will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life” ( Matthew 25:46 ). With the same Greek word used to refer to both “punishment” and “life,” it is clear that both the wicked and the righteous have an eternal/immortal soul.

Jesus said in John 11:26and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

IMMORTALITY MEANS TO NEVER DIE...

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

ETERNAL LIFE MEANS TO LIVE FOREVER SO DOES IMMORTALITY...

THE DEATH HERE DOESNT MEAN PHYSICAL DEATH BECAUSE BOTH THE SAVED AND UNSAVED WILL DIE PHYSICAL DEATH NEITHER DOES IT MEAN ANNIHILATION... THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH WHICH MEANS ETERNAL CONDEMNATION IN THE LAKE OF FIRE (see Rev 20:6, 20:14, 21:8, 21:16).. thats why Jesus also said THE DEATH WILL HAPPEN IN HELL in mat 10: 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both SOUL AND BODY IN HELL.

So it is clear that both the righteous and the wicked will have Eternal life (immortality) the Righteous with God in heaven and the wicked with the devil and demons in hell...
WE ALREADY KNOW THAT THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SPEND ETERNITY WITH GOD...
BUT THE WICKED WILL ALSO SPEND ETERNITY SUFFERING...
Rev 14: 11 And the smoke of their TORMENT goes up FOR EVER and EVER; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

Mat 25: 46 And they will go away into ETERNAL PUNISHMENT, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Daniel 12:2 repeats the same thing....

blueAgent:
We will spend eternity in heaven with our transformed physical bodies not our Souls or Spirit as people are made to believe.


1 Corinthians 15:53

King James 2000 Bible
For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
and this mortal must put on immortality.


Paul says this will happen:
in a moment,
in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trumpet.
He said that a trumpet will sound, the dead will
be raised imperishable, and the ones who are
still alive will be changed. The perishable must
clothe itself with the imperishable and the mortal
cloth itself with immortal. In essence, at this
time, our bodies which are perishable will
replaced with imperishable bodies. We will be
changed from mortal to immortal.

Still haven't answered my question...

I believe that too but That verse doesnt say anything about the soul dying... It only says we will be transformed...

OLAADEGBU:
So you believe Christ needs Mary and the saints to know our intentions?

No i dont... just like you dont need your pastor or prayer warrior to make your intentions known to Christ but you ask them to pray for you anyway... God loves it when we pray for one another... It no different asking Mary or the saints to pray for us...

blueAgent:
I never said the Saints were in Heaven. the Bible did not mention how the Elders got possession of the prayers ,it could be Heavenly protocol. what is clear is that we are to pray to God through Jesus only.

you admitted that in your earlier post...

I ask again... Since prayer is addressed to God through Jesus alone...

How then did the Elders get the prayers with them...

The only way would be if they intercepted them don't you think. Since you dont believe that prayers cant be directed to the saints to God via Jesus...

As for Your Heavenly protocol theory... your to God through Jesus only statement directly renders it null because that it is only "prayer" protocol..

blueAgent:
The soul does not live forever.only God has immortality.click here to read with proofs.

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4988/t/is-the-devil-in-charge-of-hell-

If the soul does not live forever how are we to spend eternity in heaven
or what is eternity

Tampinu:
Thanks, if my photos are not proof enough, what about my videos?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb9OS13Nc30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C48tSPwiJEk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9sMAwfE1jw

these videos dont answer my question... yes they met... so what...

The first video shows Selassie bowing and kissing the hand of Pope Kyrillios
If Selassie was the head... wouldn't it be the other way around

In the second video.. Selassie came to Rome to see the pope... two questions

Since the Pope and the catholic church is corrupt and apostate, why would Selassie come to see the Pope, bow in respect before him....

If the pope was under him?? why didnt the Pope come to see him instead of Selassie coming...

Lastly... in two of your videos.. I saw rastafari tv

What is the connection between Selassie and Rastafarianism

Tampinu:
Only a confused person evading the TRUTH would answer a question with a question....lol

For example:

Tourist At Airport: It's my first time in Nigeria, is it true that Nigerians answer questions with questions?

You: "Who told you so?"

They say a picture speaks a thousand words, I will leave you with a few pictures of world "Faith" leaders meeting with Haile Selassie (NOT FOR HIS IMPACT ON CHRISTIANITY BUT FOR THE RASTAFARIAN MOVEMENT, WHICH MANY PEOPLE TERM AS A "CULT"

Enjoy your evening...lol

You made a statement which I refuted suddenly you ask how my response tees up with a bible passage you came up with... Its only right i ask the importance of comparing my response to that bible passage.. Is it suppose to be a yardstick... if so where does that verse say that...

Your logic for bringing that passage is faulty so i have to question it...

P.S. JESUS ANSWERED QUESTIONS WITH QUESTIONS... IS HE CONFUSED TOO?? OR WAS HE ALSO EVADING TRUTH

blueAgent:
The word "soul" can mean anything
other than a living being?
it can also mean (1) life itself, or (2) the
mind, or intellect. No matter which meaning is
intended, the soul is still a combination of two
things (body and breath), and it ceases to exist at
death.

Mattew10:28.
The last half of the
same verse proves that souls do die. It says, "But
rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul
and body in hell." The word "soul" here means
life and refers to eternal life, which is a gift
(Romans 6:23) that will be given to the righteous
at the last day (John 6:54). No one can take away
the eternal life that God bestows.

Amen.. the word soul means different things in the bible...

But in the bible... Death of the soul doesnt mean it ceases to exist... it only means eternal condemnation...

blueAgent:
As usual with your half understood Bible verses.

The Soul can be used in place of life.
The Bible says that the soul can work, crave
food, eat, obey laws, and touch a dead body.
( Leviticus 5:2; 7:20; 23:30; Deuteronomy
12:20; Romans 13:1) Those activities involve
the entire person.
Is the soul immortal?
No, the soul can die. Dozens of Bible verses refer
to the soul as being mortal. Here are some
examples:
“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”—Ezekiel
18:4, 20, King James Version.
In ancient Israel, the punishment for the most
serious offenses was that the “soul shall be cut
off.” ( Exodus 12:15, 19; Leviticus 7:20, 21, 27;
19:8, King James Version) The person would
“be put to death.”—Exodus 31:14, King James
Version.
After a person dies, the literal term “dead soul”
is used for the corpse in some Bible verses.
( Leviticus 21:11, footnote; Numbers 6:6,
footnote) Although many Bible translations use
the terms “dead body” or “dead person” in
those verses, the original Hebrew uses the
word neʹphesh, or “soul.”
“Soul” can mean “life”
The Bible also uses “soul” as a synonym for
“life.” For example, Job 33:22 uses the Hebrew
word for “soul” (neʹphesh) as a parallel for “life.”
Similarly, the Bible shows that a person’s soul, or
life, can be risked or lost.— Exodus 4:19; Judges
9:17; Philippians 2:30.
This use of the word for “soul” helps us to
understand verses in which the soul is said to be
“going out” or “departing.” ( Genesis 35:18; King
James Version) This figure of speech indicates
that the person’s life is ending. Some translations
render this expression at Genesis 35:18 as “she
breathed her last.”—Good News Translation; New
Jerusalem Bible.
Where belief in an immortal soul comes from
Christian denominations that believe in an
immortal soul get this teaching, not from the
Bible, but from ancient Greek philosophy. The
Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Biblical
references to the soul are related to the concept
of breath and establish no distinction between
the ethereal soul and the corporeal body.
Christian concepts of a body-soul dichotomy
originated with the ancient Greeks.”
God does not condone merging his teachings
with human philosophies, such as belief in an
immortal soul. Instead, the Bible warns: “Look
out that no one takes you captive by means of the
philosophy and empty deception according to
human tradition.”— Colossians 2:8

Continue wrestling with scripture... trying to make your heresy fit...

See who's talking about half understood verses.. better unlearn your adventist heresy