Wow. Sir, what mischief is this? Why are you re-writing the words of the late A. F. C. Ryder? This intellectual dishonesty is not necessary na.
You took the words that the late historian wrote in his chapter "Benin Kingdom" in the book Groundwork of Nigerian History and you mangled it to say the opposite of what the historian wrote.
Ryder did not write that Benin sending for an alien (Yoruba) ruler was inherently implausible. These are Ryder's exact words: "...we seem to tread on firmer ground when we come to the traditions which recount in some detail how a number of Benin chiefs, rather than accept one of their own number as an hereditary ruler, sought a sovereign from the Yoruba dynasty ruling in Ife. There is nothing inherently implausible in this story". (page 110)
Yes, Ryder did say that next to nothing was know about the Yoruba at that early date, but a full quote illustrates that he was not heading to the conclusion that your mangled quote portrays. Ryder's words in full on page 112 of the same book:" What innovations the dynasty may have brought from its place of origin we cannot determine because next to nothing is known about the Yoruba peoples themselves at this early date. The essential innovation was presumably the monarchy itself: all the features that made the Benin kingship distinctive, and very different from the corresponding institutions in Yorubaland, seem to have emerged in later years when the dynasty must have become absorbed in Edo environment."
There is no doubt that Professor Ryder was a proponent of the "Out of Yorubaland" theory as regards the current Benin dynasty. There is nothing wrong with you holding a different opinion from this. But to wilfully distort a scholar's words is a hell of a desperate move. Not cool, bro.
Rather did many research in benin city he did more writing in benin history than any tribe in Nigeria
You saying rather not knowing the yoruba history to draw conclusions in the Benin-ife relationship is absurd
If Ryder could somehow trace the benin relationship to nupe then he definitely saw fragment of evidence between both areas, he could likewise have also seen for the yorubas too but non was there and don't assume that the edo environment has somehow eroded it away when we know it was never even there
Ryder acted on the agreement of both the edos and yoruba historian on the benin-ife history is not something he discovered himsef like that of the nupe-benin relationship, he went ahead to give it a sense of believe and did is research and found nothing
We all know the benin-ife relationship is a political game that was played during the early formation of Nigeria to unite both tribe under a strong political presence
No matter how old an interaction between two tribe took place there must be a relics left by the one that was later absorbed
Efewestern: Supremacism is the reason we won't get anything right as regards to our historical connections and heritage.
Some things shouldn't even be debated when the facts are there. You can't claim to apply common sense and logic and still believe somethings.
The Oba title debate is funny to me because Edo is the core root of most South Southerners and it won't be difficult to validate some claims. If you say the Oba title was used for over 1000years, then other edoid groups would have retained it in their various dialects.
As we speak, the only title that spreads across all related group is Ogie. Now here are my questions.
* When was Oba first used ?
* Why isn't it found in any Edoid languages?
* Most Edoid groups were very independent from Bini influences and would have adopted the title for their leaders if it was the title used pre-migration.
* Why was Ogie the general accepted word for king? Even Unrelated bini-influenced groups like Iwere used Ogi(e)ame. Why not Oba-Ame?
I believe there is a missing link somewhere. The dots aren't connecting.
UGBE634: I have kids not unborn, If I am not a Bini man,let me die before my time, let my children die before my very eyes, let everything I hold dear perish. Are you comfortable now
You lack diginity, you're not fit to be a benin that's if you're at all
Edo people are progressive people you're not you're stuck in the past
Because people say things gives you no reason to doubt what they say is that how you trust esogban this esogban that, can't the oba compel the esogban to do his bidding and say what he wants him to say, have you ever thought of that?
If we don't doubt things how would there be improvements because people say what they said does it gives it authentication
Have you even sat down to know if the ife history was true all you do is nod your head with your fellow yorubas to belittle the edos and claim the edo stool is from yorubas
You don't learn. which is very bad, stop doing what you're doing here you will have me to contend with for the fact you're even claim edo makes me more angry
There was a research work Done by Europeans themselves between edo and yoruba artworks it showed that both works were very different in every way both in technique style and materials but you won't pick that book to read because you believe anything people say is truth because they are from the palace.... 😂😅 Even the yoruba artworks were not made by ife or yorubas themselves they bought it from art merchant in the ancient time, Have you also tried to look at the facial marks on the ife artworks if it even have resembles with the ife facial marks to know if it was the ife people the artworks were even depicting? I guess no
You dey fall my hand, I swear edo people are smarter than this that's if you're even edo
I am not one, I have never been, I will never be, if you will not call the Ogie-amien family yoruba because they believe and hold strongly that the Oba is from Ife, you have no business calling me that, what about the Ogi-egor who holds supremely that his "kingdom" is the maternal home of the present Oba dynasty. If you do not call him a yoruba, you have no business calling me.
What about the Esogban who said he came from Ife alongside with the Oba and some other person's, you know his house in Benin, you've not placed fire on it? The truth is glaring only if we chose to see it
Ogori or Idoma man leave Edo history alone
Oga anybody can say anything back it up with historical document
People can claim ownership to the stool of the oba of benin it has been happening before now even in ancient benin kingdom
Oga in a world were there is freedom of speech anything can happen anyone can say shit So because the ijaws said they are the owner of gelege sea port we shouldn't doubt them because they said so
It is called ogie mien king of the seas
And he has no business with the oba stool
Oga you're not a benin man Tao11 can do better when writing benin than you did
Writing in benin doesn't make you a benin man
You're of the yoruba tribe I dare you to swear with your uborn kids... If truly you're benin
Oga anybody can say anything backing it up with historical fact is what matters
Even the ife you're killing yourself for was made known by a yoruba writer Samuel Johnson
From today on I will follow you bumber to bumber I will make sure I chase you out of culture thread either with truth or otherwise
SLIDEwaxie: You're simply what they call a lucky Bastard. This doesn't make your smart or better. You can't be a good civil engineer in school, it can only be because of long years in practice.
Now, that being said- you designing a structure is the job of an architect, supervision is the job of a builder and the structural aspects is for a structural engineer, in which you come in..
And nobody would pay ₦200,000,000 into a savings account for a job just based on recommendation because clearly you were a novice. Lass lass, if they were desperate to help you, they'll attach you with a major construction firm and pin you as a head of department.
My point, you are just one of the lucky bunch, you're not smart or very good and you're probably just a liar
I swear lucky bastard want to turn his story to motivational inspiration
If he was indeed good we would have heard his name
Do you understand that the region were the white people are staying various numerous volcanic activities that formed their landmass..
If you are leaving africa to Europe you will understand that European is on a higher altitude(elevation) than Africa continent, which is on a lower land,
What formed the landmass of Europe is activities of volcano over thousands of millions of years their land mass are still restructuring regularly due to volcanic eruption not that no one is dieing of such disasters like you make us to believe
When such start occurring then you can begin to fear.....
EdoDefence: Not many might know this; but as always, history always has a good way of reminding us that even in some of our most darkest times, some certain conditions can cause the rise of some uncertain and unlikely heroes to come to the rescue of people whom are being oppressed by an Oppressive force.
Not many might know who Usman Dan Fodio is, but for those who may not know about the man in question; Usman Dan Fodio (born on 15th December 154, Gobir - died 20 April 1817, Sokoto) was a renowned Fulani scholar, religious teacher, military leader, Revolutionary, Promoter of Sunni Islam and the core founder of the Sokoto Caliphate in Nigeria.
Not too many may know why this man's name rings a bell, but the few who know him can bear witness to the fact that he was indeed a great Warrior.
But according to historical records, Usman Dan Fodio was responsible for the fall of many empires in Old Nigeria; he was the one who put an end to the reigns of the Hausa Kings of Northern Nigeria; and he was also the reason why the mighty Oyo Empire fell.
Now when this man was done with carrying out a successful jihad in some parts of the Northern and the Western part of the country, he shifted his attention down to East.
BUT ONE OBA OF BENIN, PUT AN END TO THE RAGING ARMY OF USMAN DAN FODIO AND THAT OBA WAS NONE OTHER THAN OBA ESIGIE OF BENIN
This Oba (According to Historical sources) was recorded to have mobilized a massive army to face the invading Fulani Army of Usman Dan Fodio, even so that he was successful in the Battle that took place.
Many historians argue that Oba Esigie of Benin was the reason why Usman Dan Fodio's jihad was not successful in the Eastern part of the country.
It's important to note that some historians argue that if the Oba Esigie's army was defeated in the Battle he fought against the Fulani Army, Benin would have succumbed to the Jihad and other parts of Igbo land would have followed suit; ranging from the fact that the Igbo communities as of them were not as organized as the Benin Empire whom had a standing army and a well organized monarchy.
Benin never encountered fulani their armies were no match for the benins, their armys were still using swords and arrow with horses for warfare when benin already had canons guns, they bought
It would have been a walk over by the benins if the fulanis had encountered benin kingdom
Their empire was so weak it collapsed before the benin empire....
When u say things like this it will look as if somebody is not working hard. You have no idea what I have done or been through.
I have done some things(legal) just to survive But I thank I just got a job in a very popular firm in the country. As a costumer call agent.
The issue here now is the sexual tension am facing every day and my current job which I just started a month ago is not helping matters cos 90% of my colleagues are female. And you need to see what they wear to work.
My brother even if you don't want to be moved. You must move. Dem no born you well... Everyday I give my self pep talk on how to look but I still look. The sexual tension is much plus the fact that I have not had sex for 2 years now, the Same me that normally have sex back to back...
Right now am just thinking how I am going to survive those ladies at work on Monday and my dick Is already doing me somehow
And your moniker is softboy haba change am to suffering
Iamgrey5: There was no Lagos when that oba was ruling.
He ruled over Eko which originally described a small part of Lagos island not Lagos state under the current arrangement.
And more fun fact, he ruled over Eko Aromire an Awori sub clan of Lagos which he met there.
There were vast areas of Lagos state in which he has no power over then and today
Ikorodu, Epe, ibeju, most parts of mainland which the Egbas and other Awori controlled, Badagry areas which the Egun and Awori controlled, the waters ways which ilaje controlled.
You're very shallow on Nigeria history benin controlled the entire lagos, tho her cultural influence didnt spread to all part unlike it did on some part.....
Benin were the first majour dellers on slaves in badagary.... Till benin influence left lagos completely in the late 17c
I don't usually like to get involved when compatriots start having a dig at each others in other not to be seen as taking sides.
However, let me point out few things.
1. Was there alliance between Oba Eweka 11, the Alaafin of Oyo and Ooni of Ife after the death of Oba Ovonramwen? I believe there was.
2. Was there any such connection before 1897? I can't find evidence to support any connection between Ooni and Benin but there was evidence of Oba of Benin and Alaafin of Oyo alliance.
3. Does your submission that claims that Oba Eweka 11 used to pray for himself, Ooni and Alaafin in the morning mean that he sees (Ooni and Alaafin) as superior? I don't think so, praying for people or other traditional rulers you are in alliance with doesn't mean they are superior to you.
4. The very fact that both the Benin Palace after 1897 and the Ooni subscribe to the Oduduwa story is enough evidence of an alliance between them in colonial times for mutual political gains, there is other evidence that I wouldn't like to disclose here.
5. There are no mentions of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in Benin history pre-1897.
Number 3, i really wasnt saying the alafin or ooni was superior to the oba of benin never, i only used the quote to buttress my point on the political alliance between the Yorubas and edos
Just incase you got the 1824 date from my writeup, let me clarify some points.
1824 was when the first Europeans visited the hinterland of Yoruba (Oyo) and started gathering first hand historical accounts of the Yoruba people.
Around this same time the Europeans also visited the Sultan of Sokoto, Sultan Bello, Sultan Bello had documented that the Yorubas migrated from the middle east (Mecca).
The Europeans that were in Oyo (the lander Brothers and co) collected a different tradition from that of Sultan Bello.
In both accounts, Oduduwa wasn't mentioned.
Oduduwa was a myth in some Yoruba traditions until some returnee slaves such as Samuel Johnson started writing the history of the Yoruba.
Samuel Johnson in 1897 built his Yoruba middle east origin on Sultan Bello's 1822-1824 narrative but unlike Sultan Bello that claimed that the Yorubas migrated from Mecca, Samuel Johnson argued in the direction of Egypt because he said there were no records of Oduduwa in the history of Mecca.
This is how a mythical Oduduwa was transformed into the Moses that led his Yoruba people from the middle east to their current location in Nigeria. Some Igbos did the same by tracing themselves back to Israel.
The Oduduwa story was built on Sultan Bello's 1824 unsubstantiated narrative.
What some of you propagate as history are mostly layers of lies told over time by different people and Yoruba history is full of these kind of narratives, they try to get away with it by telling you they were scholarly works by experts.
The so called experts need materials to work with and in most cases these materials are lies told over time and at the end the experts and professionals just help to further the lies to advance their careers.
The only true history are the ones documented by eyewitnesses who happened to witness what they wrote down. This is why Benin has no rival and a reference point.
Benin is the only significant kingdom/empire in Nigeria with such eyewitness historical accounts dating back to the 1400s, Yoruba eyewitness historical accounts started in 1824, the story of Oduduwa was created much later.
Yea this is a well researched carried out, not the baldman down here pointing fingers and calling people traitors because they decide to speak the undiluted truth that point fingers to the palace on their wrong doings
Please just shut up, you are the fakest commenter here, you evil impersonator. You are not Edo, stop pretending.
And you're the edo man indeed you're igbo,
Trying to get back at the Yorubas
Mugu i showed you a text were oba eweka 2 acknowledged the alafin of oyo and oni as superior in 1920 to further buttress my point you turned it to an insult by me to the benin royalty...
You keep discrediting fact without proves the last one you did was using racial slurs as your defense...
Stop just stop before you disgrace yourself further. Your betters walked this lane and they are still as confused as confusion till date. Oni is not Oghene and Ife is not in the East of Benin.
Are you lots so daft or you are just being silly trying to change the map of the world by placing Ife in the East instead of West.
Ozuor!
I guess you made a mistake quoting me on this......
Simply visit my profile and topics before you start pointing fingers
Mushroom brain, there was nobody called Oba Eweka2 before 1914. Also your gossip paper which you seem to worship is not backed by any evidence. Either you are extremely gullible, either you are pushing this narrative on purpose.
Wiseman... If this will make you sleep well so be it......
You turned my harmless comment to a battle of racism, inferiority complex, all in a bid to prove your point....
Look you are a slowpoke, you claim something exists then you say I have to pay for you to prove your claim ? What a daft ... Where is your quote of Oba Ovonramwen claiming Oni and alafin to be superior to him. You are real waste of time. I guess you are the same as that foolish backstabber gregyboy. As I already said, you are definitely not Edo. Nobody tells such lies against his own people ! Prove your claim or shut up, how glad I am to see you finally begging your cotraveller the yoruba obese troll for help.
Incredible idiot, instead of claiming something exists, why don't you just show it ? You have a very big mouth. And you are dumb. For your information, no such thing ever took place. Idiot.
Also, Mr slowpoke, the Oba of Benin before 1914 is Oba Ovonramwen who fought the British, he was an emperor of a souverein empire ! I am waiting for your quote of Oba Ovonramwen saying "alafin and oni are superior to him"
In that period of time, see the following pictures of the oni and alafin and their palaces in that order.
And here we are talking about the Oba of Benin who had an imperial palace which merveled European visitors and whose furniture is still in western Europe and american museums today.
Incredible idiot, instead of claiming something exists, why don't you just show it ? You have a very big mouth. And you are dumb. For your information, no such thing ever took place. Idiot.
Maybe i will allow Tao11 to bring it up, beg her she would gladly...
Am too smart for you bro,
Why not go and read up, the benin kinglist, and a reconsideration of benin and ife relationships by afc Ryde again. you will come across the quote therein
If you want me to do it for you, be ready to pay in dollars, 50 dollars bro
Truthvalue: 1) Ogiso, oduduwa, oranmiyan are myths. None of them ever existed. 2) the oduduwa story was invented by a "yoruba" polical group which was led by awolowo, in parallel an other "yoruba" political group created the story of olofin which is basically a rival myth. 3) Benin didn't seek any political help from the yoruba, if anything, the Oba of Benin was annoyed of being dragged into a myth which reduced his imperial might to being likened to small kings like those of oyo and Ife. 4) the story of Ogiso is a reaction to the story of oduduwa and oranmiyan 5) edeyoung, you are an idiot. 6) abohboy, you are also an idiot.
You talk like someone who just finsh inhaling shit....
Are you aware that were quotes of oba eweka11 acknowledging alafin and ooni as superiors to himself at 1920s.. This was the way the oba of benin sought their attention he needed
How was it slave returnees? And Bini oral history very clearly states that your original lineage of kings or Ogiso were replaced with the Oba kingship title of the Yoruba and replaced with a Yoruba king Oranmiyan essentially meaning your royal lineage are partly Yoruba if you're so sure of your oral history do a DNA test on your rulers and see how it comes back it's impossible for a group as small as the Bini to have been the origin of the Yoruba people of 45 million plus spread across three countries it just doesn't happen
It's like England claiming to be the source of all European empires when we already know that their royal lineage is German
Ogisos were mere mythical expressions by bins that was told to the white men, benin never for once believed in any Supreme being above, they believed all Gods existed on earth before the arrival of the whitemen... And the deceased remained on earth to guide their family from harm, they thought nothing of the heavens apart from the fact it brought down rains and sun which they believed the gods of the earth controlled
The concept of ogiso by the benins was born out of European influences of Christianity that believed on heavenly kings
The concept of osa( God) was born out of thesame Christianity later on after the myth of the ogiso which came centuries before, at this time the benins had fully accepted Christianity as another idol in the kingdom and as they were told the idol king Jesus leaved above
Now the concept behind benin and ife relation began after amalgamation when the benin sort political help from the Yoruba to unite in one false history for political benefit of the edo and Yoruba people and the history of Oduduwa migration into benin was born as the cultural unification...
Culture / Re: Benin-ife Relationship Explored by Edeyoung: 10:54am On Feb 06, 2023 
