₦airaland Forum

macof: Do u deny that no one named Jesus existed

Sir you said linguistics supports the view that Jesus never existed...It would be interesting to see how linguistics proves this...

macof: Gods are not what you want them to be they are what they are.

Gods are personified Energies, Everything "inorganic" tends to have a personification, so I can personify what Scientist call Electrostatic potential energy as Sango

The bolded refers to what I call Olodumare. Now understanding the nature of the universe is understanding Olodumare.

Your Problem is that you are not an observer, you only listen to ur pastor and read from other men then claim you know the nature of the universe and the intensions of the creator

Then you could also personify emotions, personify the abstract entities, personify symbols and other entities as God! Your God is quite easy to serve...I'm sure your God does not have do's and don'ts like those of Christianity and Islam...ah well, it appears there are as many Gods as there are men! Whoever he is he is the MEGA STAR OF ALL TIMES...He's got people arguing day and night, some are willing to die to defend him and some others are willing to kill to defend him...many shriek at mere mention of the name 'God'...

macof: Actually, no man named Jesus existed 2000years ago

history and linguistics supports this

how does linguistics support your assertion...

macof: Gods are not what you want them to be they are what they are.

Gods are personified Energies, Everything "inorganic" tends to have a personification, so I can personify what Scientist call Electrostatic potential energy as Sango

The bolded refers to what I call Olodumare. Now understanding the nature of the universe is understanding Olodumare.

Your Problem is that you are not an observer, you only listen to ur pastor and read from other men then claim you know the nature of the universe and the intensions of the creator

Your Problem is that you are not an observer, you only listen to ur pastor and read from other men then claim you know the nature of the universe and the intensions of the creator

Sir you are accusing me of the same crime you have just committed...you claim i am not an observer and that i only listen to my pastor and read from men...but you have not OBSERVED me not observing, you have not OBSERVED me listen to pastors alone, you have not OBSERVED get knowledge from men's books about the universe alone... YOU BARELY EVEN KNOW ME That's funny sir.

qstar: Who's confronting you? Were you not the one that came here spewing trash? That scientists are lying, the earth is 6000yrs old, bla bla blah.

Anyway, i've observed you are jobless. Please use your idle time on something worthwhile.

I am sorry if i hurt you by what may appear to be my aggressive defense of my views...my apologies! The truth is i don't know who you are and where we'll meet, you may be the solution to my worst problem tomorrow...My apologies again, i mean no offense!

macof: True. Gods are simply Energies personified

And it's insanity for a sect to claim absolute authority and knowledge on even one form of energy talkless of the entire mysteries of the vast universe

To those that assert that Gods are simply energies personified I have this concern which i would like you to address:

If God were simply energies, then by the Kalam argument these energies must have a cause and this is obvious considering that these energies were brought into existence by the big bang. Now this means that 'Gods' as defined by macof were created and are not primordial...and if these 'Gods' were the aftermath of the big bang it would amount to a dangerous error to refer to them as 'Gods'...Whatever must be called God must be the entity or phenomena that created the singularity that resulted in the big bang and this entity or phenomena must not have a cause...whatever it is, it must not have a beginning and by corollary it must not have an end!

Apatheist: Busy now, you can read this site.
Geocentrism in the Bible

You can also read this one

Biblical flat earth claims

From the wikipedia website i got this:

Matthew 4:8: "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world"

Luke 4:5: "And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in[b] a moment of time.[/b]"

Irrespective of the whether the bible assumes the earth to be spherical or flat, my question is how could satan have shown Jesus Christ all the kingdoms of the world are both of them that long sighted? and how could satan have shown Jesus ALL, ALL as in ALL the kingdoms of the world not in an hour, or in a week or maybe a month, BUT IN A MOMENT...Any analytical mind will rapidly come to the conclusion that most of the what the bible talks about are acts, events and phenomena that are often outside the realms of reason and evidence...

Apatheist: Busy now, you can read this site.
Geocentrism in the Bible

You can also read this one

Biblical flat earth claims

I got these two verses from the second website you directed me to:

Isaiah 40:22
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth , and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

Isaiah 11:12
He will raise an ensign for the nations, and will assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the[b] four corners of the earth.[/b]

...can you please explain how the earth would be a circle and at the same time have four corners...you can be as mathematical as you can!

qstar: ^^^

You doubt science. You take science as god's enemy. You believe science is lying to denigrate your religion.

What else can i say? Believe whatever you want to believe, even if 90% of the world population believed same with you, that doesn't make it true.
Just as I can believe that mermaids exist, that doesn't make it true too. It only exists in my mind.

Sir, if hated science i would not be a thinker. If i hated science i would not have striven to have a university education, If i hated science mathematics would not be my past time...I would like to point out that my posts and comments all have a central theme and at the core of this theme is the dichotomy of the physical and the spiritual, as well as their tenets and principles!

MrOlai: MIRACLE OF THE HOLY QURAN:
Sea is mentioned 32 times in Quran. Land is mentioned 13 times in Quran.
Sea(32) + Land(13) = 45
Sea = 32/45 x 100 = 71.111%
Land = 13/45 x 100 =28.889%
Land + Sea = 100%.

Modern science has recently proven that water covers 71.111% of the earth, while the land covers 28.889% !

Sir with all due respect this is not a proof. That the word sea is mentioned 71% of the time in the Quran does not prove that 71% of the earth is filled with water...and besides, proofs are in the realms of science and not religion!

qstar: You seem not to know your Bible. Yet you come here to defend it. Defending what you have not finished reading. hmmmm.

Ignorance is permitted, in religion, ignorance is bliss

Questions are not only asked by ignorant people...often times even those who are well informed need to ask questions to be sure that what they know is what is known...Mr qstar, you don't always have to be confrontational we are just stating our positions...

qstar: You were existing in the form of sem.en before. After death, you'll become a manure to the soil( i.e. if you are buried).

before man was sem.en and ova (you left that out, sir) what was man...and when man spends his time as manure in the earth, if buried, what does he transcend into...[I sense a state of infinite regress, but lets go on!]

...while you are at that consider this to:

if the ACCIDENT of the big bang started all existence and the planets were formed by ACCIDENT and life started on earth by ACCIDENT and man evolutionary path was chosen by ACCIDENT and man evolved sexu.al organs by ACCIDENT and man began sexu.al activity by ACCIDENT...can i safely say YOU WERE BORN BY ACCIDENT and your actions and deeds are purely an ACCIDENT...are acts of benevolence and malevolence ACCIDENTAL...if yes, then the acts of the BOKO HARAM SECT must be justified on the basis of the 'scientific fact' that the ESSENSE OF REALITY IS ROOTED IN ACCIDENTS

...and while you are at that please address this issue

The Law of Conservation of Matter 'states that Matter can neither the created nor destroyed but can be transformed from one form to another'. If this law holds true then man must exist in a state, long before he was born and after he dies and cease to exist in the physical world he must continue to exist albeit in another form, so tell me where was man before he was born and what is his fate long after he's dead?

Apatheist: It doesn't make sense. That's why you rely on "faith"
It's like someone believing the earth is flat admist conflicting evidence showing otherwise. They have "faith" but faith doesn't make things true.

Where did the Bible say the earth is flat!? Can you point out a verse or two that alludes to that!?

Apatheist: Good thing you know the Buy-bull doesn't make sense.

It musn't sir. It musn't make sense particularly to those bound by science..any sound Christian would easily agree to that!

Dapo777: Wow
I didn't put words into ur mouth ooo,can u see a Christian admitting that it is in the Bible doesn't make it Evidence.
Now I get ur stand.

It's now very obvious that the Bible doesn't make sense to u,But u just chose to believe it.
Goodluck bro.
Thanks for all ur replies anyway
Ciao

if the bible made sense we won't be arguing. Even paul stated that 'preaching amounts to foolishness'. So if the bible made sense Christianity would be a science but it doesn't and it musn't for it to remain a faith...So i believe though i don't know and it doesn't make sense.

...so you may not KNOW but yet you BELIEVE and you may not BELIEVE but yet you KNOW...

knowledge is based on reason and evidence, beliefs are based on faith!

Dapo777: Dapo: what do you mean by you don't have evidence? Is it not mentioned in the Bible?

That it is mentioned in the bible does not make it evidence. Evidence must be verifiable, observable and consistent...and more than 90% of the bible is shrouded with unverifiable, unobservable and inconsistent mysteries...The foundations...,corner of the earth...stuff are entities i don't know off and i possibly can't know by my power so i simply BELIEVE the scripture though i don't know!

Dapo777: I know.....u are absolutely correct! Spiritual matters cannot be objectively scrutinized.

If you are asked in an exam,to describe the four corners of the earth,where they are located and how they look like,can you tell me what u would write about it?
Imagine I Am the person giving you an oral exam....

Dapo: efficiencie can you give me a brief description of the four corners of the earth,and also tell me what the foundation of the earth is made of and where can it be found?

My answer would be 'i don't know.I haven't been in a plane let alone orbit.So i don't have evidence to answer that question''

DAPO777: Ok,u seem to be very objective when analyzing
science,can u be as objective in analyzing the
Bible too?

Here we go again and again and again! Objectivity is a feature peculiar to science alone and not spiritual matters. Objectivity implies the scientific method and the scientific method knows it's limits sir.

Elisha cast a stick into water and the stick brought an iron axe head to the surface...is that objective? can that be proven? Moses by God parted the sea, is that objective? Some said the winds decided to blow differently that day and parted the sea but we know that winds blowing fast enough to hold walls of water would also prevent the Israelites from crossing. Bible acclaim that Jesus turned water to wine. How objective and testable is that act? Can water ever become wine in the space of a day!? Has it ever happened? Jesus walked on water. Isn't that a sheer violation of a myriad physical principles!?

Sir objectivity is in the realm of science and not belief!

Dapo777: But the very nature of ur
beliefs contradict ur logic.

Sir that's why beliefs are beliefs, reason is reason! You don't believe science you prove it and you don't prove God you believe him.

If God could be proved, God'll become a subject in science and if science is believed science becomes a religion!

I earlier gave mathematical analogues involving geometry, field theory and complex analysis and the conclusion was that belief and science are in different realms and the rules that apply in both are expected to be different.

So sir I believe Jesus Christ in my spirit and i reason out the logics in my mind...no conflict! The mind and spirit are two different places.

Dapo777: Truth is the property of being in accord with FACT OR REALITY.
SO how is truth relative to the observer? How can u compare truth to beauty?

You are a very logically person from all that I have been seeing here, But the very nature of ur beliefs contradict ur logic.
How would u believe the truth is evolving and never established and yet u believe the Bible is the truth that never evolves.
That reminds me of a mental state called "cognitive dissonance" (make me too speak small grammar) this is not to say u have mental problem But u can make a little research on that mental state,when someone goes against his own logic just to validate a point being proven at that moment.

if you were observant sir, you'd notice i'v been consistently arguing this the same way using the outcomes of philosophical discourse and i'l do that again...Facts and reality are relative sir, science confesses that. The Dalton atomic theory was based on what Dalton considered factual and real but unfortunately his facts and reality did not stand times unforgiving test as Rutherford showed.

Many thinkers of old, from Thales to Plato, from Plato to Parmenides, from Russell to Kant all had their conceptualizations of the essense of reality.

So sir if truth to you is based on the much fluid facts and reality man churns out in every age, then truth as you define it is fluid and relative.

Dapo your mind is made up! I guess you keep returning argument for argument simply because it's fun for you or for some other reason...just as mine is made up too and i'm just arguing to flex my mind and spirit...anyways bro! One love!!!

Dapo777: What about the truth of the Bible? Is it established? Can it evolve?

you see sir, truth is very much like beauty! I can't tell you how beautiful a lady is because you have your own ideal-type. The same with the truth. The truth that i will unlock to you Dapo from the scriptures will be the rantings of a another raving luny when you hear it and its easy to see why that is...

Dapo777: Really,I didn't know astro physics and cosmology is studied in Nigeria

I bet he can only study a course of that nature and be as good as he is know if and only if he studied abroad...

Dapo777: I would suppose you have the right keys.
Can u use the right key in answering those questions?
Thanks

Sir you determine what is right! Right and wrong are relative concepts. To satan the keys he used were the right ones and the same applied to Jesus. I cannot give you my key to unlocking the scriptures simply because we all have to find the keys for ourselves...I found mine in the storms of life, wading through floods that got to my neck and i remember times i'd have drowned but the key i found rescued me! So you see, I am not just another church goer, oftentimes I prefer meditation in a solitary environment to the charade that many perform in churches nowadays...

Sombrerogalaxy: We talked about this the other day when you mentioned Dalton's definition of an atom, remember. It would be dumb for anyone to quote that definition today! Why? Atoms are divisible! So is Dalton right or wrong? Of course, he is wrong. This is science, and shades of gray have to be defined. We used to believe that the Universe was geocentric, but we all know that it is not, even our solar system is not. It is of no consequence that we are emotional attached to earth as our home, it still has to be demoted from that prime spot. I guess you are familiar also with the demotion of pluto from its status as a planet, regardless of the fact it's the only "planet" discovered by the americans. There is little room for sentiment in science, when superior evidence are available, truth is established and embraced.
The fundamental dilema that people raised in religious circles have is how do they react to truth as they move on in life? Would they hold on to the ignorance of their community or rise above it or would they rather hide under the amphibious umbrella of faith?

but truth never gets established...rather it evolves and anything that evolves is never established! If truth today becomes a lie tomorrow and then even the truth tomorrow would be accepted with some sentiment...considering that soon the truth tomorrow may well suffer the same fate as the truth yesterday...

Dapo777: So you believe the earth is firmly settled on "the foundation of the earth" and supported by two pillars as written in the Bible,do you also believe the earth is flat because the Bible makes us know that God spreads out the earth. Do you also believe that someone can see all the kingdoms of the world by standing on the highest mountain? Or u believe that the sky is a hardened firm that prevent a tremendous amount of water from flooding the earth? Where are the four corners of the earth located? Where is the end of the earth? Does the sun moves around the earth?

that is what you think the bible says sir...when the bible called Jesus the lamb that takes away the sins of the world...did it actually mean Jesus was a lamb? Have you ever read the songs of solomon? you'd probably wonder why a section of the bible was devoted to very amorous love notes...the bible is a code and it require a key. You could use the key of your mind and get an interpretation, satan used a key and the bible became a tool for temptation, Jesus used a key and it became a shield to temptation, muslims use a key and it becomes a book that substantiates islam, the grail message folks use a key and it corroborates the thoughts of its adherents, paul stated that the letter of the scriptures could kill...so you see sir, it depends on the key you are using but be rest assured whatever key you use the bible will always unlock and present you with something...and more often than not it will present you with something that you were expecting.

mazaje: Pls stop going to creationist websites to copy garbage. . .You do not even understand what you are saying, so I am not going to engage you on it, pls where is your own scientific evidence to show that the earth is 6000 or 10,000 years old as the case maybe?. . .Pls present it. . .

Guy no vex, no be fight we just dey yarn the thing wey we know and if we wrong you go talk your own make we reason am...no be fight ehn!

Dapo777: Not constant acceleration But constant speed.

The reason Why the stone returns to you is because the atmosphere is also moving along with you as the earth is rotating. So even as it seems as If the stone went straight up and came straight down,it actually moved and the atmosphere and you also and the ground you standing on all move at the same speed along the path of the earth rotation But you wouldn't notice a thing because it's all CONSTANT. Just because it looks as If the earth isn't moving doesn't mean it isnt moving.

hmmm! i like that. I think i can imagine your description.