₦airaland Forum

StarBoard: Bleacher report and Daily Mail are elampiro's source for tactical info.
na wa o.
No wonder there is so much traffic on this thread.

elampiro you should be a blogger.

I was only trying to support my claim. My tactics are in my head.

You guys were calling me a liar whereas I was sure I was correct Rooney paired Carrick in the games against Stoke and Aston Villa last season. I am sure he had played in same deep midfield role in some maches of 2011/12 season. He even played there in a UCL fixture. It looks like we always win whenever he drops to midfield. That is another case for the purchase of a solid midfielder.

Rene Meulensteen is new first team coach at Fulham

coogar: i don't deal patronise dodgy sites.

Na u know. U didn't watch the match?

3rd confirmation:

But Rooney's position in the side is far from set in stone. After a wonderful half-season destroying opponents alongside RvP, Fergie tried him out as a pure central midfielder.

It started with a little cameo in a midfield diamond against Newcastle United, but his most prominent appearance in the middle came very recently in a masterful display during the 3-0 win over Aston Villa.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1615808-wayne-rooney-the-midfielder-vs-wayne-rooney-the-forward


1. We now have three independent sources confirming Rooney played midfield against Villa.

2. We have your chat and as well as two of my sources stating he played in the midfield (a box to box) against Stoke.

3. He was said to have also partly played CM against West Ham and Newcastle.

coogar: so i should ignore a universal sports site that detailed rooney's match log throughout the season, the site that showed the number of minutes rooney played in every game, the site that showed the number of goals, assist, own goals, etc and then rely on drunken journalists of dailymail?

hahahahaha - you are reaching.

I didn't have to rely on any writing or stat before I recalled Rooney played in midfield. It was even a talking point though out that week.

Your site surely made an error. Perhaps if you check back on this thread or match day thread on nairaland, someone may have mentioned it.

coogar: the 3-0 win?
rooney didn't play as a midfielder on the night. rooney was a second striker.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/1412412_image_jpg0d5b1c4c7f720f698946c7f6ab08f687

it's up there - the 34th league game had rooney's position as SS(second striker).

That must be a fatal mistake. The people behind this must have relied on something else other than the actual match to compute their stat.



See below. Thiis the 2nd report I am producing that Rooney played in the midfield. Also I am telling what is still vividly clear in my memory. It was a point of discuss then.
..............................
But an outstanding performance from midfield in the title-sealing 3-0 win over Aston Villa on Monday suggested the England international could adapt into a new role.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2316042/Bryan-Robson-urges-Sir-Alex-Ferguson-Wayne-Rooney-Manchester-United.html

But an outstanding performance from midfield in the title-sealing 3-0 win over Aston Villa on Monday suggested the England international could adapt into a new role.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2316042/Bryan-Robson-urges-Sir-Alex-Ferguson-Wayne-Rooney-Manchester-United.html

The problem with some of you guys is your over reliance on statistics instead of the actual match. Abi, you people didn't watch the match.

Rooney paired Carrick and played box to box role against Stoke.
Rooney played twin pair with Carrick against Villa.


Now this is the 2nd article/report supporting that Rooney played midfield against Villa. I am so surprised this isevenn being argued.

...............

'The last thing I'd do is sell him' - United legend Robson urges Ferguson to keep hold of Rooney

PUBLISHED: 12:21, 28 April 2013 | UPDATED: 12:21, 28 April 2013

Sir Alex Ferguson must keep Wayne Rooney at Manchester United, according to former Old Trafford legend Bryan Robson.

Rooney has been linked with a move to big-spending Paris St Germain this summer, with Borussia Dortmund's Robert Lewandowski rumoured to be coming in to replace him.

But an outstanding performance from midfield in the title-sealing 3-0 win over Aston Villa on Monday suggested the England international could adapt into a new role.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2316042/Bryan-Robson-urges-Sir-Alex-Ferguson-Wayne-Rooney-Manchester-United.html

coogar: so performing as an orthodox central midfielder now means rooney was the defensive midfielder? how do you sleep at night with this white elephant lies?

rooney played alongside carrick.....same way giggs, anderson & cleverley have partnered carrick. it does not mean rooney was the defensive midfielder.

against villa(both legs), rooney was a second striker. he wasn't even in the hole. he played further up the pitch than the quintessential trequartista. biko, lie with caution on this thread.

Which match against Villa did Rooney play as a second striker? I am referring to the match RVP scored a volley from outside the box. Did you not watch the match?

StarBoard: Giggs and Carrick were in the middle vs Aston Villa. . .
United went 4-4-2 that day.
Stop this your misinformation.
Tell us another story.

And vs Stoke, Carrick was the deep-lying MF in front of the back four.

So he was never a DM as you claim

Which match are you referring to? Man United vs Villa, I watched it well. Rooney was Carrick partner while Kagawa and Giggs played ahead. People were even suggesting Rooney used in the midfield after that outing.

I don't know what you are arguing.

afrodoc: aww u said u were done with the argument o

I know. Just to answer StarBoard.

StarBoard: There have been at least two fixtures with the same scoreline in recent memory.
Kindly specify which one.

Last season na.

Against Stoke and Aston Villa last season, he (Rooney) performed creditably as an orthodox central midfielder.


http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/tacticsandanalysis/id/2096

StarBoard: Where?When?How?
Give us instances.

There were matches Carrick played CB and Rooney moved into his role.

Then we had Rooney and Carrick pairing when the other midfielder was sub.

I think I could remember Man United 3 Aston Villa 0. Where did Rooney play in that match?

elrony: Here we go again!!!..

No, I think I am through with it.

coogar: rooney doubles up as a striker - mata does not. there have been moments RVP was subbed & rooney moved to the striking position & scored/assisted goals.



this is what happens when you don't get a consistent run of games in a team. mata's involvement this season has been mosaic....10 mins there, 20 mins here.




see this fraudulent man.....
compare ozil's assist stats in the last 5 seasons to rooney. ozil is new here, new league, new teammates - why compare him to rooney who is now in his 10th season at old trafford?

if you remove penalties from rooney's goal haul, he's only scored 12.9 goals per season. it's hardly a world class material.

Now you defend Mata and blame it on inconsistency in playing games. But Rooney had few games last season and was inconsistently rotated in several roles, yet he pulled up a decent stat.

Now you mentioned penalties Rooney scored. He has only scored about 19 out of his 200 goals. How many number 10 has that? How many number 10 has been at the top for so long?
See you much later on this argument if at all there is anything else to add.

Lest I forget, which were those matches last season RVP was sub and Rooney went to strike and scored? If that was the case, Rooney shouldn't be better in the assist/mins ratio, and is justified in some other areas Mata appeared to have better stat.

elampiro: 1. The argument about goals was started when you pulled out a chart comparing our strikers goal scoring for 2010/11 to 2012/13 seasons. I think the chart had Welbeck, RVP, Berbatov, Chicharito and RVP. Anyway that is in the past now.

2. In 2009/10, I am sure Rooney midfield stats will still be higher than other strikers, so why the criticism about his goals in 2009/10.

3. Last season:
(A)
Rooney 27 league games. 2020 minutes on the field.
Mata 35 league games, 2742 minutes on the field.
(B)
Rooney was used in many roles including DM/CM.

Considering the above, you cannot rely on the stat above to draw a conclusion. Despite the odd, Rooney came up with 12 goals and 12 goals assists in the little playing times and disadvantage positions. Same can be argued for other parameters.


3. You provided Mata's stat for last season, what about their stats for previous seasons?

4. What about the stats of other number 10s ?

5. Rooney scored 12 goals in 2020 minutes and Mata scored 12 goals in 2742 minutes.

You did not provide that parameter or you deliberately omitted it.


6. This season:

Mata: 7 league games, 386 mins; 1 assist 0 goals
Rooney: 10 league games, 835 mins; 5 goals, 4 assists




Vs Ozil
Ozil - 15 games , 4 assists, 2 goals ..

Rooney - 14 games , 7 assists , 7 goals ..

coogar: https://fergiesgum.electricdemon.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/untitled1.png?w=300



i have only criticised rooney's goal return in the seasons he was the arrowhead(09/10) i didn't criticise him last season for his goal return & i am not criticising his goal return this season.

my criticism of him is his appalling passing accuracy, poor creativity & his general decision making in the final third. there would be no argument here if you admit rooney isn't good at these important parameters.

1. The argument about goals was started when you pulled out a chart comparing our strikers goal scoring for 2010/11 to 2012/13 seasons. I think the chart had Welbeck, RVP, Berbatov, Chicharito and RVP. Anyway that is in the past now.

2. In 2009/10, I am sure Rooney midfield stats will still be higher than other strikers, so why the criticism about his goals in 2009/10.

3. Last season:
(A)
Rooney 27 league games. 2020 minutes on the field.
Mata 35 league games, 2742 minutes on the field.
(B)
Rooney was used in many roles including DM/CM.

Considering the above, you cannot rely on the stat above to draw a conclusion. Despite the odd, Rooney came up with 12 goals and 12 goals assists in the little playing times and disadvantage positions. Same can be argued for other parameters.


3. You provided Mata's stat for last season, what about their stats for previous seasons?

4. What about the stats of other number 10s ?

coogar: https://fergiesgum.electricdemon.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/untitled1.png?w=300



i have only criticised rooney's goal return in the seasons he was the arrowhead(09/10) i didn't criticise him last season for his goal return & i am not criticising his goal return this season.

my criticism of him is his appalling passing accuracy, poor creativity & his general decision making in the final third. there would be no argument here if you admit rooney isn't good at these important parameters.

Busy.

I will respond later.

coogar: elampiro has never argued with common sense.

he's beating his chest that rooney had more passing accuracy - conveniently forgetting rooney played several games in the midfield where there's no pressure.

then he highlighted the fact that rooney played in 7 different positions - a point that should have nullified rooney's supposed superior passing accuracy.

RVP is the arrow head, his main priority is to receive passes & shoot. he had more shots from open play than rooney. this is why rooney had less shots per game than RVP

So you knew this and you were blasting Rooney for having fewer goals than RVP and Chicha? You seemed to have forgotten the genesis of the argument.

At least Anderson will have another chance to make a statement.

Fellaini can also prove himself now.

infact its an opportunity for some guys to prove themselves.

elrony: Bros where u dey buy dis ur weed??

State your argument to dispute what I said and stop making vague statements.

Purist: I don't mean to join the coogar-elampiro argument, but pardon me if I'm mistaken -- isn't Rooney expected to have more possession, more passes, higher accuracy, and more assists than RVP since he's played mostly as an SS/AM or even CM at times? RVP is the one leading the line, who do you expect him to be assisting or passing the ball to? The opposition goalie?

Exactly. You are correct except that you have just indirectly exposed your favouritsm towards RVP. You have never argued in this direction when Rooney was criticized for having less goals than RVP. That was the bases for the argument.

It is sometimes argued here like Rooney and RVP are playing same roles for Man United, like they are two box strikers. If everyone had been separating their roles when we argue about number of goals scored by Rooney, RVP and Chicha we will have less problems.

Lastly, if we look at the number of assists/minutes played for last season, also the number of goals/minutes played last season vs other so much praised number 10s in EPLs, we will learn to appreciate our own the more.

This has been trashed previously and exhaustively. I can't be repeating myself just because a rastafarian wants to rubbish Rooney at all cost.
..................................................




If you were to argue from about possession, Rooney beat RVP in overall possession. Rooney has 83% while RVP has 80% overall despite RVP having few passes.

3. Rooney has 1026 accurate passes in 2020 minutes, passing at 83% accuracy. That means he had 47 accurate passes in a match.

RVP only 820 accurate passes in a whole 3123 minutes, passing at 80% accuracy. That means he had 23 accurate passes in each match.

4. On forward passes Rooney had 215 accurate forward passes in 2020 minutes, at 21% accuracy rate. This mean Rooney has 10 accurate forward passes in every match.

RVP had 213 accurate forward passes in 3123 minutes, at 26% accuracy. This means RVP only 6 successful forward passes in a match.


My purpose of the chart was to tell that Rooney should not be judged with goals as he is more busy. Coogar has even confirmed he played in 7 different positions which can even destabilize a player if not very good. If we are to talk of efficiency in pass, Rooney provided 10 assist from 2026 minutes as compared to RVP of 3123 minutes.

Summarily, when people argue about Rooney's play last season they should know that he played 7 different positions in 22 league start. Who does that? Not even Ronaldo is thrown about like that. Messi plays only one role while Ronaldo plays three. So why kill someone who should be commended for filling the gaps?
..............

You were quoting percentage without doing the maths. Or you should just say you didn't take time to study that table.

You asked which of them made more forward pass. Do the conversion of 26% of 820 and 21% of 1026 and lets know which is higher.

...............


I want to stop here.

Also know the fewer times you get involved in football touches the fewer you will make mistakes. Hense RVP's 820 passes in 3123 minutes shows how much he was just sitting upfront like an Hyena waiting for the Lion to kill to capitalise on the ready made food.

.................

How is it more likely for RVP to make a forward pass than Rooney when he made less passes (213) in far more games (3123)? Rooney made 215 in far less games (2000). It only shows RVP was idle most of the time just waiting for the ball to fall. He was just planted man in the box area?

................


https://www.nairaland.com/871307/official-manchester-united-fan-thread/305

SailorXY: ***If Anderson isn't United's standard, I don't see how Cleverley is
***Yet it is written in the skies that Hernandez is better @ leading the line & should be next up if RvP is unavailable, why was Welbeck preferred to lead against Man City?
***I will not go into Valencia/Nani, it doesn't even matter
***& how did you conclude this when he's never on the pitch? Or do you watch Fabio play in the spirit lands?

*** Welbeck and Lingaard were our best striker in the preseason. Welbeck added a flair to his striking play by taking on 2 or 3 defenders at a go. He was instrumental to our Charity shield success as well as 4-1 demolition of Swansea.

*** Fabio started the season for us at the RB and he was just not it.

The pass accuracy stat you people are trying to or avoiding to argue about is something we argued exhaustively in the past. I brought up the chart and I did justice to it already.


The only thing I want to say is that Rooney has only 21% backward passes. This means 79% of his passes are directed to Valencia/Nanii and Young/Kagawa and RVP/Chicharito. 4/5 of his passes are geared towards attacking build up.

montelik: Who cares about national team form, what matters is United form. On that basis Valencia isn't far better than anybody, even Young.

Valencia is far better. He is the only one who can cope playing in front of Rafael, Jones, Fabio and Smalling. He also covers for them well at the back. He is scoring and giving assists. Nani played with Smalling and it was a disaster. The reason it appears Young is any good is because he plays in front of a an over lapping guru, Evra.

SailorXY: Check the abilities of those bench warmers & tell me how;
1. Cleverley is better than Anderson
2. Welbeck is better than Hernandez
3. Valencia is better than Nani
4. Smalling/Jones @ wing back is better than Fabio
Now why is that some get enough time while the others languish stroking c+cks

*** Anderson needs a miracle to resurrect his career. He has been too poor.

*** welbeck and Chichi are too different players. Cicha can only be used in one way and one position. Welbeck can be used in at least 4 positions and in many ways.

*** At the moment, Valencia is far better than Nani. It's also obvious in their performance for their national teams.

*** Fabio should be compared to Buttner, not Jones or Smalling. Fabio doesn't defend anymore, he plays defence like someone playing midfield. He needs to be retrained to defend well.

SailorXY: Screen Shot

Some people think Cleverley is not the right midfielder. In this forum guys think Cleverley and Carrick were not really fit. We were further weakened in the midfield with the redeployment of Jones. Yet so rastafarians wanted our fowards to just be forwards.

Football is not so easy and things vary from team to team. Man United has had the weakest midfield in Europe for years now, and it is at the worst at the moment with the departure of Scholes and age of Giggs. Jones is becoming our best midfielder. Imagine if Jones is given a run of games there as many of you advocate for benchwarmers. Lol.

I just got the info now that Phil Jones has finally release Ozil and Ramsey from his pockets after much pleading by Wenger.

Did I also just read someone trying to play down Rooney's assist from the corner kick? Why always Rooney? If assists from corner kicks will win us a UCL trophy so be it. Any reduction in points if goals are from set play? But wait o, RVP also took corners and he raised the balls too high up to cause any threats.




..................
Aboki: Oga, Rooney don spoil City again. Bigi men of City, Aguero, Nashi, Siliva, Yaya, Dzeko, Navas , flenty flenty big men. Then no fiti win. Dem fall. Kai! Wes Brown commot the goal post for road and dem no see net again. Oga fa, why Rooney dey spoil bigi men market like dis?

Oga: you too dey dull. How many times I go tell you say Rooney na player for Man United. United beat Arsenal na. Rooney play well for Man United.

Aboki: Oga, kai! Make u no vex say I don forget say you don telli me say Rooney na person. Dat place for niraland don confusion me say Rooney na something, something wey dem dey call am blame.

And none of you have reasoned that if Rooney wasn't dropping deep to midfield, the whole attacking line would have been starved of balls. You guys should stop comparing us with teams with world class midfield. Rooney doesn't drop back often for England because of Gerald and co operating there. Play Rooney in Barca, he might not have a need to drop below the centre line.

Anyone who works hard trying to help the midfield will always have some problems with concentration. Moreover, the guy has been over used these days. Despite all these, he played like a leader who didn't want to lose. In 2007/8 when we had Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Scholes, Giggs and Carrick, we had some matches we managed a one nil even against relegation bound teams.

Before this match, someone said Smalling and Jones were played out of positions and the number 10 will be key. Now we won, what is the issue? We were further weakened in the midfield and Rooney helped out in combinatioon with his work, yet you guys cry fowl.

We played a very in form Arsenal team which beat Dortmund last week and we won. This should be a time to praise everyone who played, particularly Rooney. Who knows what would have happened if he wasn't there.

You guys are still using Aguero, Suarez and co as a benchmark. What has Liverpool or City achieved since these guys arrived that United has not achieved in many folds. We don't need selfish players who thrive on laziness and individual glories, but selfless players who carry the team to success.

This looks tough but we are in a far better shape now to handle consecutive tough fixtures.

United's upcoming fixtures:

24 Nov - Cardiff (A)
27 Nov - Bayer Leverkusen (A)
1 Dec - Tottenham (A)
4 Dec - Everton (H)
7 Dec - Newcastle (H)
10 Dec - Shakhtar Donetsk (H)