₦airaland Forum

Fabville: Hargreaves was meant to tackle the threat of Ashley Cole and not Lampard. SAF had the option of choosing JS Park but he opted for Hargreaves because of his defensive qualities ahead of Park.

Man Utd plays either 4-4-2 or 4-5-1/4-2-3-1 especially in Europe or when they play against a difficult opponent and that is why SAF always look to buy natural wingers.

How many natural wingers played in our UCL games in 2007/2008? Later you will accuse me of not watching our matches, whereas you are the one who act as such.

I beg I am done with this jor. You don't want to accept the obvious.

Evil Brain: Your homophobic, misogynist, racist, mass murdering, genocidal, baby killing god is going to come and vanquish all evil from the earth? The only way that's possible is if he kills himself as well.

I pray God enlightens your heart and mind to see His light. I am also praying He keeps enlightening me too.

We all need our perfect supreme God in our lives to make a meaningful living on earth on our journey towards heaven. Satan and his cohort has stained everything good, hence the reason God will come and cleanse the whole world soon.

Homosexuality is against natural living and any meaningful existence.

Some of the junk news also claiming Herrera has agreed to join United subject club ratification of the transfer.

RuuDie: UTD sign Fellaini and Baines...#unconfirmed officially though# got this from a Britico colleague. Claims he was texted from home.

"I will miss everyone here. I was told minutes
ago that from Monday I will no longer be a blue." # Fellaini after game vs Cardiff today # MUFC

Source: some of those junk news.

Who will be unveiled tomorrow? Fellaini or/and Herrera?

Or we carry on as it is?

The D day has finally arrived.

Wayne Rooney suffered injury, and got stitches in training

Wayne Rooney looks to have been KO’d from Manchester United’s biggest game of the season against Liverpool — by his own captain Nemanja Vidic.

was caught in the head by a studs-up challenge by Vidic in a competitive training game at the club’s Carrington base on Saturday.

...............................

Vidic should have been sent off from the Liverpool game. lol

Now it will take Rooney even longer to gain his full fitness. Sad!

Evil Brain: Everybody who doesn't hate gays must be gay. Everybody who supports equal rights for midgets must be a midget. Senseless logic.

I agree with musKeeto. Fanatical Christianity is nearing its last bus stop in Europe. Maybe soon, it'll be gone from Africa as well. Then we can focus getting rid of the Islamic nutcases.

Evil will only have its hour but only briefly, then the King of Kings will come and vanquish all satanic influences and evil from the face of the earth.

These things are in the bible.

Fabville: Yes, exactly my point and exactly what i expected from you. What i was trying to tell you with the article i posted was that i can bring a whole lot of articles to back my points just like you have done.

My point is that i don't need anybody's article to see or know the formation Man Utd is playing at any given time because i already know how these formations work. Every team has a traditional formation and a lot of people read them differently.

How can you say that Man Utd played 4-2-3-1 in the final against Chelsea? What was Hargreaves doing on the right wing wing then?

The Man Utd v Roma formation you are seeing in that diagram is a fluid 4-5-1 which transit to 4-2-3-1 when when attacking. In a 4-3-3 system the three attackers will have to be separated from the midfielders and not nearer to them. That is why the arrows were drawn to show that they will be running down the byline creating width for the team. That is the more reason why we have natural wingers who are fast paced to always attack the opposition full backs. Man Utd under SAF have always play with width

The difference between 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 is that 4-3-3 is more of possession football while 4-5-1/4-2-3-1 is more of counter-attacking football which Man Utd are more known for under SAF.

I know you so well just as @♛AndrERush♛ have ritghtly said. You will not accept even if i post 100 pictures of the formations here. You so much believe in articles that someone posted than what you can see for yourself. If you are seeing white and a bloggers says it is black, you tend to believe the bloger. There is no need to go on with an endless argument.

It is not a mater of blogger or no blogger. I raised the issue and points before using analysts to back up. The truth is that formation is discussed more by sports writers/bookmakers/analysts. How mny times have you seen coaches and players emphasizing on formation. This is because theory is different from practical. For instance, someone already making assumption that United played 4-4-2 because Ronaldo played more on the left flank on the night in Moscow. Have we not seen SAF and several coaches used one winger in a match while the other wing is left for midfielders to use occasionally?

In 2007/2008, United used three man midfield in most of its games. I think I have already explained this. If you go back to the line ups, you will see that most line ups had three midfield players from Scholes, Carrick, Hagreaves, Anderson, Fletcher. A study of the line up patterns will reveal to you that United didn't open up both wings in majority of the matches.
.....................................

Look at these few line ups for instance. You will see three midfield players.

Against Lyon in Old Trafford
1. Man Utd: Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson (Tevez 70), Ronaldo (Hargreaves 90), Rooney, Nani.
Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Saha, Park, Scholes, O'Shea.

At Lyon
2. Man Utd: Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, Scholes (Tevez 65), Hargreaves (Carrick 78), Anderson, Giggs (Nani 65), Rooney.
Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Saha, O'Shea, Fletcher.



Against Roma in Rome
3. Man Utd: Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic (O'Shea 34), Evra, Carrick, Scholes, Anderson (Hargreaves 55), Ronaldo, Park, Rooney (Tevez 84).
Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Giggs, Pique, Silvestre.

Against Roma in Old Trafford.
4. Man Utd: Van der Sar, Brown, Pique, Ferdinand, Silvestre, Hargreaves, Park, Carrick (O'Shea 74), Anderson (Neville 81), Giggs (Rooney 74), Tevez.
Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Ronaldo, Scholes, Welbeck.



Barca in Cam Nou
5. Man Utd: Van der Sar, Hargreaves, Ferdinand, Brown, Evra, Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholes, Park, Rooney (Nani 76), Tevez (Giggs 85).
Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Anderson, Pique, O'Shea, Silvestre.

Barca in Old Trafford.

6. Man Utd: Van der Sar, Hargreaves, Ferdinand, Brown, Evra (Silvestre 90), Park, Scholes (Fletcher 76), Carrick, Nani (Giggs 76), Ronaldo, Tevez.
Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Anderson, O'Shea, Welbeck.



..................................

We can go on and on.

Scholes had 30 appearance in all competitions and 4 more subs. 7 UCL games.

Anderson 25 games in all competition and 13 more as sub.

Michael Carrick had 39 matches, then 10 more as sub.

Carrick 49 (10 sub) (13 ucl) in all

Owen Hargreaves had 24 League games , 9 Champions league and 34 in all. Hargreaves played all the knock out matches and on group match. I couldn't get his stat for FA cup and league cup.


When you put the above together arithmetically, you will notice that our midfielders were very active, meaning three of them were used most of the time. I have not even considered Fletcher and Park.

................................

Finally, I must confess, we need another Hargreaves.

Just coming in: President Obama, in a Saturday address, said he has authorized military action against Syria, but will not act before seeking and obtaining congressional approval. Congress is out of session until Sept. 9.

Source: Yahoo! News.

Fabville: So, are you saying the Roma game was 4-3-3? This is purely a fluid 4-5-1 which changes to 4-2-3-1 when going forward. The arrows simply imply that Rooney and Park have to run down the byline before crossing the ball in for Ronaldo.

Some forum members have said it several times this arguments came up that we played 4-4-2 in the final against Chelsea but you have always failed to agree.

Read more about SAF's formations http://worldsoccer.about.com/od/skillsandtactics/a/The-Manchester-United-Formation.htm

I thought you said articles didn't matter?

United vs Roma was a pure 4-3-3.
United vs Chelsea was a pure 4-2-1-3. But some analyst wrote it was still 4-3-3. That particular formation in the final against Chelsea has the most divisive opinion.

I posted links to this argument, perhaps I have to start posting links again to remind us and to bring up new points.

[quote author=♛AndrERush♛]Lol. You are the one seeing what you want to see. I posted the diagrams, not you. The article I got them from, labeled them as 442 and 451 respectively.

You can see that Rooney and Park are closer to the central midfielders than they are to Ronaldo. How you can call that a front 3 is beyond me.

The other one is not a pure 433 formation. Carrick would've played closer to the left if it were a pure 433.

We better just kill this argument, because it's clear you will never agree with me even though the evidence is staring at you in the face. Let's just forget about this and focus on our transfer activities and tomorrow's game.[/quote]I saw those diagrams long before you did. There is an original source, then a lot of analyst have used them in their commentaries.

Wayne #Rooney has given Manchester #United a scare ahead of Sunday's clash with Liverpool.

Rooney suffered a head injury in training this morning and left their Carrington HQ with a bandage wrapped around his head.

The 27-year-old is now a doubt ahead of the clash at Anfield but will be determined to prove his fitness depending on doctors' advice. (Source: Daily Mail)

Fabville: This one you are posting articles to back up your claims doesn't change anything about the formation and the personnel (players) lined up to execute such formation.

In 2006/2007 and 2007/2008, SAF mostly played the 4-4-2 system and in few games adopted the 4-5-1 system because Man United played with width and playing fully with width can only be done with natural wingers. We don't play inverted wingers who will execute the 4-3-3 that you are talking about. If you didn't watch those matches, you need to go back and see the line ups for the games that we played then. Scholes and Carrick were played in the midfield in most of the matches played in 2006/2007. Most of the time you see Fletcher play is either he came in as substitute or Carrick or Scholes is missing from the line up. So also at times when you see Hargreaves in the same team with Carrick and Scholes, then it is either he is playing at the right back or he is being used as a winger.

You don't need an article to convince me that what you are saying is right because i can also right an article on that to back up my assertions. I don't need to read any article in order to know the formation a team is playing, team list will definitely do that. If it is article, i will give you a couple to support my pointy as well.

If you are in doubt, you can mention at least ten matches with the team list and tell me the position each player played to convince me that it 4-3-3.

It is you that didn't understand the formation. Rooney- Ronaldo-Tevez were our three strikers given free roles. They interchanged their positions inside matches as they wished. Then Scholes, Hargreaves and Carrick played the midfield with Anderson sometimes used. Fletcher also had some games.

Look at the chart even your co-arguer posted. The 2nd was a match we had in Rone against Roma. Ronaldo was in the centre of two co strikers, Rooney on the left and JS Park on the right. Most times Tevez took the role of JS Park.

[quote author=♛AndrERush♛]NO, The formations are 442 and 451. Just because they are not rigid doesn't change what they are.

The first one is a flexible 442 with Hargreaves playing on the right side of the midfield. It's a tactical move to combat the threat of the opposition team, When we are playing big teams. Hence why he is a little withdrawn. Replace Hargreaves with Nani and you have an orthodox 442.

The Second one is straight up 451. Rooney and Park are basically playing as wingers with Ronaldo as the lone striker. When we attack, Rooney and Park joins in with Ronaldo, making it look like 433. But it doesn't change the fact that it is a 451 formation. It's just a lot more flexible.[/quote]Exactly the way you want to see it.

There are different analysis for the two chart. The creator of the chart sees the first one as a pure 4-3-3. Go and read from the source. The second was analysed as 4-2-1-3. Hagreaves was meant to stop Ashley Cole and Lampard in that one off formation of 2007/2008 UCL final.

[quote author=♛AndrERush♛]https://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m494/mecuryball/man-utd-chelsea-tactics-champions-leaguefinal-2008.jpg

https://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m494/mecuryball/man-utd-roma-tactics-2008.jpg

United haven't really been a plain 433 team even in 2007/2008. Our Formation is mostly 442ish or 451 looking like 433 when attacking with our attacking players interchanging.

The above diagram will give you a clear view of our formation. Although the personnel and player position do change from game to game.

Like in the 451 formation. Sometimes, Rooney will be in the position of Ronaldo and vice versa depending on the team we are playing, while Nani would replace Park in other games. Even Giggs replaces Ronaldo on the left sometimes and Ronaldo would be on the right wing.[/quote]Your diagrams are 4-3-3 on the strait look, or partially 4-5-1 or 4-3-2-1 when you want to argue widely. These things are seen from different perspective as I said before.

United used three midfielders. One a holding midfielder(Carrick or Hagreaves or Fletcher on a few occasions), then a second box to box midfielder who sits parallel with the holding midfielder while defending (Fletcher or Scholes or Anderson or Hargreaves), and the third is the creative midfielder playing in front of the two (Scholes or Anderson or Hargreaves).

JS Park and Fletcher have got some of the creative roles too on few occasions. JS Park has also been use on the left or right of a three man attack on few occasions as we had in Rome against Roma.

If Man United cant find players, we should do with what we have. Was it not Chelsea that escape defeat narrowly in our hands that pushed Bayern all the way with ten men. And we still have Nani, Kagawa, Rafael and co who have not played yet. Valencia and Young will be better. I can see the signs.

@Fabville, that is just one of the reports. There are a thousand out there supporting that was the dorminant formation in 2006/7.

The fact that United played a 4-3-3 in 2007/8 should not even be debated.

Fabville: This is not correct. Did you ever watch Man United matches in 2006/2007? I f you did, you will not say that the "General Consensus" was that United used 4-3-3.

In 2006/2007, man united used 4-4-2 with Carrick and Scholes anchoring our midfield.

That was the way you saw it or the way you wanted to see it.

Fletcher played 24 matches in 2006/7 season. Then JS Park had 14 games.

The Tactics Board- Is Fergie’s solution the 4-2-1-3?

In only 3 games this season, it seems more likely that Sir Alex Ferguson’s dominant formation this year will be an off-shoot of the 4-3-3. The last time that Sir Alex Ferguson used a 4-3-3 as his dominant formation was between 2006 and 2009, a period when the Red Devils won 3 straight Premier League titles, a League cup and the Champion’s League. Sir Alex Ferguson has always been associated with the 4-4-2, and achieved considerable success with this formation but that didn’t stop his tactics from evolving.

Some managers achieve success with a formation, and will only use this formation for the rest of their career. A good example of this is Giovanni Trapattoni, currently coaching the Republic of Ireland national team, but Fergie has always evolved with the time, even if it is slightly slow at times. After seeing Jose Mourinho’s Chelsea team win the League twice (2004-2005, 2005-2006), United started to toy with the 4-3-3 that Chelsea used, and he made several changes until this formation led to one of United’s most successful runs.
- See more at: http://redrants.com/the-tactics-board-is-fergies-solution-the-4-2-1-3/#sthash.lis6HcdR.dpuf

SailorXY: Chelski did well by the way. Better showing than what was put out against United last Monday

There you need to praise United instead.

chrisley024: I must say our defence is class when compared with Bayern's. Where's Dayo?

I thought Bayern would beat Chelsea 7-0 from the way people have been shouting about that team.

coogar: and tevez was a united player in 2006?

We had Saha that year. SAF also had other players that he called upon temporaray, like Larsson.

Most writers have said United used 4-3-3 from 2006 to 2009. Then we know there could be some disagreement because these things can be seen differently by different analysts. But the general consensus was that United used 4-3-3 that period with just little adjustments in a few matches.

coogar: SAF played 4-3-3 between 2006 & 2009? na wa o - don't people would distort the facts to suit their argument.

That was what he played, with Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo in the attack.

*BREAKING NEWS*
Reports that Marouane Fellaini's has been left out of Everton's squad for game with Cardiff tomorrow and that his agent is at Carrington to seal a transfer.
Source: Man United facebook fan page. Not the official club page.

.... all these lengthy post on formation sef.

4-2-4, 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-4-1-1, 4-5-1, 3-5-2, 4-2-1-3, 4-3-2-1, 2-2-2-2-2, 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 are more of theory than practical. These are terms used more by sports writers than coaches.

It is the players available in a squad that enables the coach to plan some tactics and options, then the formation is more of a little guide. When SAF played 4-3-3 between 2006 to 2009, it was because of the kind of players available to him, but in between he opted for a different formation whenever he used Berbatov.

dopeJemi: d question is, Can he heLp us in europe??

It's a 50-50 thing. He might just click.

zezebabyxoxo: I completely agree with this bishop.

Why, are you a gay?

Do you realize that this man is the head of Anglican church worldwide? He is speaking against christianity.

dopeJemi: I read dat herrera's reLease clause is around 36million, dey said dey'll selL him if we can come up with dat amount..

If Everton should hear about this bid, then they won't sell Fellaini less than £25m.

Won't Fellaini who is already used to EPL be more beneficial to us?

#‎Uniteds‬ £30m bid for Ander ‪#‎Herrera‬ been confirmed by Athletic Bilbao and they have rejected it.

Athletic president Urrutia "We received bid for Ander from ‪#‎MUFC‬ last night and we have told them we do not negotiate for our players." (Source: itvsport, @DAVIDJACA) #mufc
..........

United have had a £36m joint-bid for Fellaini and Baines, £26m bid for Ander Herrera and £10.25m bid for De Rossi - all turned down today. (Another source.)

So what is the difference in abilities between Herrera and Felaini? So because he is Spanish he must be so expensive?

chrisley024: According to TMW, Nani is signing a five-year contract at Old Trafford despite rumours of a pre-deadline bid by Juventus. The Portuguese star reportedly agreed fresh terms a fortnight ago.
Goodnews I must say if it happens.

I saw a supposed Juve agent confirming that somewhere.

.....

Buttner is reported to be going on loan.

[quote author=♛AndrERush♛]I'm not sure of this news, because I haven't seen it anywhere else. But if true, it'll be a welcomed addition, even though the price seem a little too much for a relatively unknown player.
Like I told a guy, it's been six years since we bought a proper midfielder. And it's about time we bought another. at this point I will take anyone as long as he can do a decent job in the midfield. We are really short in that department. As of now we only have Carrick, Cleverly and Anderson. Anderson is still as inconsistent and Injury prone as ever. So we basically have only two central midfield player which is too few for a big aspiring Champions League winning club like United.

In other news. Everton has rejected an improved £36m joint bid for Baines and Fellaini..[/quote]Ander Herrera Worth High Price Tag for Manchester United

By Ryan Rudnansky on August 29, 2013

Next



EuroFootball/Getty Images

Manchester United have made a €30 million bid for Athletic Bilbao midfielder Ander Herrera, according to Spanish radio station Cadena COPE and Tre Atkinson of Inside Spanish Football.

This would be a wise move by United.

The 24-year-old has already developed quite a reputation. He first began turning heads as part of the 2011 Spanish under-21 Championship-winning team alongside Thiago Alcantara. Since then, he has been a valuable member of Bilbao, drawing comparisons to Steven Gerrard due to his style of play and versatility.

In his last two seasons with Bilbao, Herrera has registered two goals and nine assists in La Liga play. Two seasons ago, he notched an assist in Bilbao's 3-2 victory over United at Old Trafford in Europa League play. He's known for his strong defense, level of focus and passing and dribbling ability.



According to Cadena COPE, via Atkinson, Bilbao won't part with Herrera unless his €36 million release clause is met. Considering that's a minor step up from the €30 million United are reportedly willing to pay, there's a legitimate chance that the reigning Premier League champions will acquire the talented young player.

Some may say Herrera is not worth upward of €30 million—and this is probably true—but at this point it doesn't really matter. United have a surplus of cash to throw out there as the transfer window closes. Why not use it to improve the club?

Herrera won't single-handedly solve United's problems in the middle of the pitch, but he will most certainly help. Ask Bilbao fans what he has meant to the club the past couple of seasons. 

Moreover, Herrera is still rather young. He has room to grow, and a club with the history of United have the means to help him do so. He has the talent to eventually excel in the EPL. The more time he sees on the pitch in the Premier League, the more he will likely improve. 

It's easy to scoff at the exorbitant amount United are reportedly offering for Herrera. That is, until you realize this is United we're talking about. A mere €30 million is chump change for a club of United's stature and wealth.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1755110-ander-herrera-worth-high-price-tag-for-manchester-united

Head of Anglican church urges Christians to ‘repent’ over ‘wicked’ attitude to homosexuality

By John Bingham, Religious Affairs Editor

3:40PM BST 28 Aug 2013

The vast majority of people under 35 think that the Christian attitude to gay people is “wicked” and “incomprehensible”, the Archbishop of Canterbury has said.

The Most Rev Justin Welby told an audience of traditional born-again Christians that they must “repent” over the way gay and lesbian people have been treated in the past and said most young people viewed Christians as no better than racists on the issue.

Archbishop Welby, who as a young priest once opposed allowing gay couples to adopt children, said the church now had to face up to what amounted to one of the most rapid changes in public attitudes ever.

While insisting that he did not regret voting against same-sex marriage in the House of Lords, he admitted that his own mind was not yet “clear” on the wider issues which he was continuing to think about.

And he admitted that, despite its strong official opposition to allowing same-sex couples to marry, the Church is still “deeply and profoundly divided” over gay marriage.

The Archbishop, who comes from the evangelical wing of the Church, which takes a more traditional interpretation of the Bible, publicly opposed the Government’s Same-sex Marriage Act while it was being debated earlier this year.

But he told the General Synod in July that the strength of feeling he encountered in support prompted him to reassess his own beliefs and urged them to face up to a “revolution” in attitudes on sexuality.

Yet his comments, at a meeting to dedicate a new headquarters for the Evangelical Alliance, an umbrella group representing hundreds of thousands of Christians, are by far his most outspoken intervention on the subject so far.

Noting the fact that it is the 50th anniversary of Martin Luther King’s “I have a dream” speech, he urged Christians to speak out about what they are in favour of rather than simply what they are against.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10271438/Archbishop-urges-Christians-to-repent-over-wicked-attitude-to-homosexuality.html