₦airaland Forum

coogar: but carrick + scholes beat chelsea that were miles better than arsenal to the title. you are so full of crap, elampiro.

1. I am not aware United beat Chelsea in 2006/7 season, neither am I aware United has ever beaten any big team (Arsenal, Chelsea, UCL) with only Scholes and Carrick in the midfield.

2. Was it not in 2006/7 Chelsea beat United in FA cup final with Drogba's late goal?

3. SAF wasn't mistaken when he brought in Hargreaves and Anderson in 2007/8.

4. I don't want any two shadow markers at same time in our midfield. We should never allow opponents to so much use the ball again.

dademola: baba, leave invesigation for detectives!! I say nani and park played on either wings dt nite! I rememba dt match so well. Na blue jersey barca wear dt nite sef..

So where did Ronaldo and Tevez play? Are you a saying SAF played 4-2-4 against Barca? At worst United plays three man midfield against big teams. If Nani played from left, I see no way Park played in the wing.

dademola: i askd for d significant diff btwn tiote and fellani(aside height and hairstyle)!! U were d one condemning tiote for his lack of creativity and flair, and i askd if ramires had any of these qualities. In as much as fellaini and tiote aint my prefered options, i wnt mind having any of dem..atleast, sme energy wld be guaranteed in our midfield.

Ramires has a certain ability no other EPL player has, only Yaya You're is closed to it. But Ramires does burst box to box faster than Yaya. That alone plus his dribbling abilities is enough to have him in a big team. Tiote doesn't have a selling point apart from his direct confrontations and energy.

dademola: u funny oo. Tiote isnt strong on d ball?? Lemme ask u sef; is ramires creative?? Is he a flair playa?? Again, i wanna ask; aside height and afro hairstyle(and maybe sme occassional runs into d opposition's box), wot r d oda significant differences btwn d fellaini wer r rumoured to be chasing,and tiote??

Among all the midfielders we have mentioned, only Ramires is capable of bursting 40yards within seconds. That is the difference, and great one for that matter. The Ramires runs is can be very useful, remember he used it to deal with Barca home and away in Chelsea triumph over Barca. He provided for Drogba, then scored at away. He also threaten with this trade mark run several times even when he went solo.

dademola: elampiroooooooo!! I can swear ts either u didnt watch dis matches, or u're lying on purpose just to win d argument! Against barca, nani and park started on d wings, with ronaldo partnering tevez in attack. I rememba dt match vividly! In d final, fergie started hargo on d RHS of MF so as to curtail d excesses of ashabi cole! Hargo moved to mf wen scholes was substituted during extra time. Go n buy dos "best of man utd" compilations, so as to refresh ur memory! . U be my padi, bt e dey alws pain me wen ma padis dey fall ma hand by spreading falsehood, all in d name of arguments!! :/. Hargo and ando gave us depth in squad ( hargo also contributed versatility), so as to keep scholes fit and fresh as age had started taking its toll on him!fergie was putting an extra man in MF, cos most teams den were playing 4;3;3,rada dan d common 4;2;1;3 we hav today, and he didnt want us to be outnumbered in dt department. So to u, hargo was more important dan scholes?? Choi!! Nawa for u oo!! do i need to tell u to Stop talking about gibson??

1st half, Nani played from the left wing. Tevez and Ronaldo were other two attackers. I can't remember vividly who played ahead or played from right. This case needs further investigation. Till then I remain calm.

coogar: rooney was the minus - useless offensively & defensively. hernandez was the arrow head - he needs sweet delivery to function. rooney's passes to him were too late or overhit. defensively, rooney didn't even bother pressing busquets. he just stood like a fool that he is...



pathological lying....



this is a dirty lie - arsenal were beaten home & away in 04/05, we took 4 points from them in 05/06. where's the problem?



the defenders on the night were oshea, brown heinze and evra. rio/vidic and neville were missing in the first leg. the 2nd leg was even worse - vidic was rushed back from his injury and rooney had no strike partner - it was giggs doing the support striker in both legs....

in 2007/8, the scale of the injury we had in the defence cannot be compared to the previous season. rio was present in the game we lost vidic to injury. vidic played 9 CL matches in 12. so where's the comparison? i dunno why you like to argue over things you lack knowledge of......

Sometimes it appears you don't even read my comment before you react. I never said United had never beaten Arsenal or Chelsea. But that Carrick and Scholes alone could not beat them before the arrival of Hargreaves and Anderson.

Papers: Madrid put up Bale number 11 shirt for sale.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/bale-real-shirts-sale-record-deal-nears-222729335.html

@dademola, I saw where you recommended Tiote. I beg he is not a United material. Totie can only interrupt or frustrate flow of opposition but he cannot use the ball. He is not strong on the ball, he doesn't have the flair or creativity sense. His passes are wayward. Jones is better than Tiote. We should look always recommend or talk about quality players.

coogar: if elampiro takes a lie detector test, the machine would blow. lies roll of off his mouth like tissue paper. i don't know how an individual would wake up & decides to just lie to win an argument.

scholes + carrick partnership is as good as scholes/keane. they brought out the best in ronaldo in 06/07. the football was the best we played that decade. scholes had just come back from his double-vision eye defect that kept him out of most of 05/06 season and he played a blinder in 06/07.

Our midfield was better by a thousand mile in 2007/2008 than 2006/7. When Hargreaves came we were able to beat Chelsea since Mourinho took over, we beat Arsenal with style then won the UCL.

When we beat Arsenal in 2008, Hargreaves was in the score sheet from a free kick. When we beat then 4-0 comprehensively in 2008 FA cup fixture, Fletcher scored two while Anderson started. For the first time in a long while we became comfortable playing against big teams.

dademola: stop lying!! Against barca in 2008 @ OT,Carrick/scholes played in MF , with hargo PLAYING @ RB. In d final, carrick partnered scholes with hargo STARTING ON D RIGHT HAND SIDE OF MF!! IN 2009 against inter @ OT; carrick/scholes played!! These r sme amongst d many big matches dt scholes partnered carrick!! Go n find out about d carrick/scholes partnership b4 cmn back to argue. Ando and hargo contributed to our triumph majorly by giving or squad some depth,thereby keeping scholes fit and fresh for d big games, as he wasnt gettin any younger; he cldnt play 3 games in a week! So, cos spurs didnt beat us during d modric era, modric aint good enof or wot??nawa for u oo!! Did u actually watch dos games?? Do u even care to knw scholes's opinion on modric?? FYI, spurs partnered modric and parker, with van der vaart playing in d hole just behind pavluychencko or defoe as d case may be. Barry only played for spurs in ur PES or FIFA 13 master league, ogaaa!! Positioning is key, baba. I'm sure pple like u wld prefer taribo west or isaac okoronkwo to rio ferdinand, all in d name of tackling and agression.

What do you mean by stop lying?

When United beat Barca in 2008 at Old Trafford, JS park had a 90 minutes in our midfield.
Scholes went out in the second half for Fletcher. While Nani went out for Giggs. We had a three man midfield of Carrick, Scholes and JS park, then three forwards in Tevez, Ronaldo and Nani. It was the right mix in the midfield.

In the first leg, it was Carrick, Scholes and Park. Then Rooney played in the attack.

In the final final against Chelsea, Hargreaves was in the midfield. In the quater final against Roma, Anderson was in the midfield.


If as at 2007/8 Scholes and Carrick could not fly alone what will make it work with Old Carrick of 2013 and Modric (a less rated player than Scholes)? We haven't Ronaldo now, while Nani of 2008 was a sharper player than now.

Without Hargreave we would not have delivered the UCL in 2008. We would have ended it like it happened twice against Barca. We had Scholes and Carrick since 2008/9, why have we been crying our midfield is weak since then? They allow opponents to cruise around. That was why SAF put Fletcher or JS Park or Gibson in the midfield mix in big games.

coogar: rooney was the minus - useless offensively & defensively. hernandez was the arrow head - he needs sweet delivery to function. rooney's passes to him were too late or overhit. defensively, rooney didn't even bother pressing busquets. he just stood like a fool that he is...



pathological lying....



this is a dirty lie - arsenal were beaten home & away in 04/05, we took 4 points from them in 05/06. where's the problem?



the defenders on the night were oshea, brown heinze and evra. rio/vidic and neville were missing in the first leg. the 2nd leg was even worse - vidic was rushed back from his injury and rooney had no strike partner - it was giggs doing the support striker in both legs....

in 2007/8, the scale of the injury we had in the defence cannot be compared to the previous season. rio was present in the game we lost vidic to injury. vidic played 9 CL matches in 12. so where's the comparison? i dunno why you like to argue over things you lack knowledge of......

Since you think I am lying there is no need to continue the argument. It also mean you told a lie when you said you are a coach or manager. Why should I believe you again?

For your information, I played football with Karimu Shuaibu (Insurance of Benin, Nigeria PL silver medallist u-17 World Cup 2001) and Ebiaku Silvanus (Insurance of Benin, 3SC, U-20 world cup Flying Eagles U-20 team 1999 under Keshi). Karimu Shuaibu was the 2nd best in the world cup while Silvanus was the captain and central defender of his side. Silvanus was the better player from the start. Silvanus went on to captain Insurance of Benin around 2007. He was also recalled by Keshi as one of the homebased players towards preparation to AFCON 2013 but later dropped. The problem with Silvanus was that he used his real age (19) while he went to Flying Eagles, Otherwise he should have gone very far in football. When he played under 20, he could have gone to U-17 using age 14 or 15, then in another 5 years he could have been scouted as a 19 or 20 years young talent. Some of the senior players we played together at Auchi went to the Premier League at the time I was on my way to the University. I was younger than those ones like Emmanuel Umuabona (Insurance) and Alex Jebba (Gabros and Julius Berger) both now retired while I was a few years older than Karimu and Silvanus. I consider myself far a better football than Karimu and Silvanus but some how my dad changed my focus. Some other players we played together at Auchi for three teams ruling Edo north and Okumu oil at the time went to lower division teams too. All of them who eventually went into football permanently did not attend University. Football is luck sometimes, there were better talents who never went further than the clubs in states league (Strikers and Obinyan Auchi team and Okumu Oil in Benin axis), because everything was like for fun until Alex Jebba broke into Gabros, then Karimu and Shuabu went to national junior teams.

After graduation, I played for Lagos State NYSC. I could have resurrected my career, perhaps, but I was again limited due to my primary assignment in a bank in that year. I served in a bank and it didn't give me a breathing space as I was only allowed to attend training on Fridays, my CD day at Ikeja Cantonment. So I could only train little and travel once for a match.

I can give more details or even go further but this is a public forum.

coogar: rubbish....
hernandez was to beat which trap? so hernandez's role in a big match was to beat offside trap and rooney was to beat 2 centre-halves? sometimes i doubt you even understand the concept behind football. you have a lot to learn about the game......your biggest mistake was being part of facebook forum discussing football!



exactly my point....



they reached the semis in europe - injuries to the entire back four lost us the game in san siro. vidic was rushed back in the 2nd leg & heinze played as a centre-half. united took 6 points from liverpool, drew chelsea home & away. that's the only season mourinho's team did not beat man utd in the league. united beat city & spurs(home & away).

how did they not dominate? they won the league at a canter. in the season hargo & anderson joined, united won the season on the last day of the season. avram grant's chelsea nearly snatched the title from united that season. united lost to chelsea @ the bridge and lost to man city(home & away).

1. Hernadez was a minus one the that final. It was a fatal error playing him. He was too young and inexperience for the occasion. He was caught offside a million times. That's my point.

2. What do you mean by 'exactly my point?' You think I am lying? I even under stated my football life.

3. Arsenal and Chelsea were the teams we had problems with until Hagreaves and Ando came. Even Scholes and Carrick could not fly past them. Remove Totteham and Liverpool, we always beat them before Carrick arrived, so it was not a big deal beating them again.

3. AC Milan 3-0 win was too comprehensive for any excuse. In the run in to 2008 CL triumph injuries were part of it, but it didn't affect us. Brown went in for Vidic while Hagreaves played for Brown in some key matches, I think even against Barca. Rooney was out too against Barcain the 2nd leg. Due to Hargreave availability, United were able to rest key plays against Roma in Old Trafford.

coogar: if rooney had mascherano and piqué to displace, who was hernandez pressing? valdez?? you should know when to give up when you brainfart.....rooney's task on the day was to mark busquets.....that was why berbatov/owen sat on the bench. rooney failed to do his task & united lost. he failed again to do it against pirlo last summer & england lost!



...........and tonto dikeh is a virgin!



they didn't dominate the big four?
scholes - 2593 mins, 30 apps
carrick - 2504 mins, 33 apps.
which other united midfielder played as many minutes as this two in 2006/7? a team that led the table for 7 months did not dominate the top four? you must be a dreamer.....

1. Hernadez was just to run to try and beat the offside trap on the night. But we was always offside, he couldn't beat the trap.

2. Tonto is a virgin if she says it, is really is and can prove it. I can prove and defend anything I say here. Pictures are there at least.

3. Before the arrival of Hagreaves and Anderson, what were the results between United and Chelsea, and United vs Arsenal when Carrick and Scholes played? How did they perform in Europe against big teams?

coogar: you are a football illiterate.....
this is why you think it doesn't make sense that rooney was assigned to man-mark busquets....

https://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee512/zonal_marking/barca1-1.jpg

the diagram above clearly explained what rooney's job was to be. press busquets and disrupt the flow to xavi + iniesta + messi. that was rooney's job. fergie was clearly seen barking orders at rooney in that game. his anger was towards rooney - rooney refused to mark busquets and united couldn't stop the wave of attack that busquets was starting time n time again!



this is an organised non-league football stuff, not some freelance nonsense you see in yaba bridge.



no one said anything about reverting to scholes + carrick in 2013. we are just correcting you that scholes + carrick once ruled this league against some of the toughest premier league opponents particularly mourinho's chelsea squad that had ballack + essien + makelele + mikel obi and won the title. united did not need a hatchet man to win the title then.

that united side led the league from october 2006 till may 2007. mourinho couldn't do anything to stop that united dominance and carrick/scholes were the most used midfielders that season in a 4-4-2 system.

1. Despite your chart, it is still very wrong to use Rooney to mark Busquet. It will weaken our attack. Rooney had Pique, Masherano in front of him to displace before creating a chance for a goal, then he had Xavi and Busquet who could also mark him out. Asking a striker who has so much in his head to do to get past his markers, to mark a DM is nonesense. I don't believe it came from SAF. Ronaldo, Messi, Aguero, Tevez, Torres, Suarez will never be given such a task.

2. Who was talking of Yaba under bridge? I represented Lagos sate NYSC. Before then I had played in state league briefly but dropped out because of education. Two players whom we played together are still in the national league division one while some had left. Those two players represented Nigeria in U-17 and U-20 separately while they were both in Insurance of Benin, a Premier League team at the time. I can give more details but there is no need for that.

3. Scholes + Carrick only were part of a team that won the league in 2006/7, they never convincingly dominated the big four (other three- Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool) until the arrival of Hagreaves and Anderson. Neither did Scholes and Carrick partnership triumphed over European big teams. They only did well against small teams of which some of them have even updraded.

coogar: you wouldn't see it because you saw the match via radio commentary. every man and his dog know how SAF and rooney were having arguments during the game.....SAF was not satisfied with rooney throughout the game.

In the 2011 Champions League final, Rooney was given one job: mark Sergio Busquets. The logic behind the plan was obvious: as United’s second striker in a 4-4-1-1 system, he would be the man nearest to Barça’s pivote, the player who begins and revives each of their attacking moves and the player that makes tiki-taka possible. Stop Busquets, goes the theory, and you stop Barcelona. Xavi, Iniesta and Messi are brilliant with the ball but cut off their supply and you stand a chance.

What is remembered about that game – besides the fact that United were for a second time absolutely rogered by a rampant Blaugrana – is that Rooney scored a genuinely brilliant equalising goal towards the end of the first half.

Generally forgotten is that Rooney so flagrantly disobeyed Ferguson by not marking Busquets that the Scot spent much of the first half bellowing with rage in Rooney’s direction. On one occasion, Rooney’s manager had to be physically prevented from entering the field of play to remonstrate with him. Busquets was always available to receive and play the ball and Barcelona’s flow was never interrupted. Thanks to Rooney, Manchester United never stood a chance.




another nonsense talk....
united played 4-4-1-1. rooney was supposed to be the one tracking busquets. the general idea was that busquets starts barca's attack - stop busquets and the supply to xavi, iniesta, messi would be cut-off.

rooney failed to do his duty.....the same way he was supposed to mark pirlo in euro 2012 and he failed. SAF saw enough of that experiment and he used welbeck in that role against real madrid and rooney had to sit on the bench at old trafford. rooney lost us the game against barcelona in 2011.



why did you bring it up when you knew brazil is poorer than argentina & uruguay in copa america? brazil winning the world cup more than any other is a moot point. they didn't win it in those years because they were kicking people off the park - they won it doing what spain are doing at the moment(samba football).



of course, i am one - i coach under-16 boys in my borough.



another daft logic....
if valdes can keep for barca, then he must be better than van der sar at united or buffon at juventus!

These are newspaper talk. Until we get Rooney and SAF comments on the issue, it is useless.
Rooney marking Busquet doesn't make sense. Like using Suarez to mark Carrick or Scholes in a mighty match.

You are a coach of U-16 team what? If na that type I don coach tire na, even female teams. I don't know your level, but if it's a local stuff I have done it before. I even functioned as coach/player. Anyway kudos! It's a commendable step. Who knows?

Anyway no need to argue this for too long. But if SAF deemed it fit to upgrade our midfield while we had Scholes, Carrick and Fletcher in 2006/7 by adding two players in Hargreaves- a good tackler and Anderson- a driving player and sometimes confronting, why should anyone suggest in 2013 that we revert to the Scholes + Carrick style of 2006? Most teams are now so fortified in midfield with the right mix. We cannot be laggards (or laggardback lol). Hope you won't pull up a stat of 1956 and ask us to return there?

coogar: this elampiro talks nonsense almost every time...

scholes + carrick won us the 2006/7 against a dogged jose mourinho side determined and prepped to win their 3rd league title. we had no hargreaves or anderson then.

as far as attacking football goes, the 2006/7 season was the best we have had in 30 years at least. united can never ever match the champagne football between august 2006 - jan 2007. it was simply breathtaking!

We had Fletcher and Oshea who SAF could use for some midfied additional missions. Even a certain Larsson was taken on loan which allowed. Rooney to drop deep.

coogar: he did not track back on the night - why do you like arguing? ferguson was showed telling rooney to mark busquets tighter. he was even telling rooney "i am the boss, do as you are told"

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/716031-barcelona-3-1-man-united-a-tactical-analysis-of-the-champions-league-final



argentina 14-8 brazil(copa america)
you really don't know your football. even uruguay have won the copa america 14 times as well.



this is why you are not a manager. only a lunatic would put alex song in united's midfield. we have the best attack and the best pair of wingers in the league. adding a midfielder that would roam is not necessary - this is why moyes is going for fellaini. he wanted cesc before to replace rooney. now that rooney is not leaving, fellaini is a better bet.

1. I am yet to see where SAF mentioned Rooney did not play to instruction. Instead what you showed me is a journalist own opinion.

2. United was alleged to have played a 4-4-2 formation with Rooney and Chicharito in attack. The report said Giggs and Carrick were completely dominated. Giggs and Carrick failed us plus the other midfield players on the night, certainly not Rooney who was one of two strikers. How can Rooney from attack be required to mark Busquet? No coach will demand that of one of his only two strikers. It is a paper report.

3. Whether Brazil won less Copa or not has not taken away anything from my argument. The current Brazilian team were not the players who 'prosecuted' the last world cup or Copa America cup. But overall Brazil has won world cup than any country.

4.You said I am not a manager. Agreed. But are you one?

If Alex Song is in Barca which have Messi, Iniester, Alexis and Pedro, I don't see why he can't be in United.

dademola: modric is like paul scholes. U dnt need 2 midfieldas sitting behind him. U're making it seem as if he is an ozil or a kagawa or a david silva. Since Paul scholes thrived with carrick, i see no reason y modric cant partner him. Modric is d closest resemblance to scholes ATM. At spurs, modric partnerd scot parker with vander vart playing in frnt of dem. Ofcourse, u'd say parker is more energetic dan carrick, and ofcourse, i'd tell u carrick>>>parker. To me, song is a replacement for carrick,rada dan a complement!! If i cant get a modric, i'd rada go for an energetic playa like tiote or ramires or vidal.

1. Paul. Scholes only thrived with Carrick against EPL middle and bottom table teams. In big games SAF added a third midfielder, either Hagreaves or Anderson or Fletcher or Gibson.

2. Without Hagreaves and Anderson in the mix, Scholes and Carrick wouldn't have been able landed us a UCL title in 2008.

3. For 4 to 5 years now we have been shouting our midfield is weak despite us having Scholes and Carrick? Why, because they allow opponents to cruise smoothly unconfronted in the midfield. Is that thekind of midfield you want with Carrick and Modric? I am tired of the way teams play around our midfield, mostly Chelsea and City.

4. Are you telling me Totteham plays two man midfield- Parker and Modric alone? I doubt that. Even when Barry was there they played three men in the middle.

5. When Parker and Modric were there, even with Bale in te team, how many big teams did they dominate.Totteham never defeated Man U in Mdric's era.

6. We need a different approach and mentality to what our midfield should look like. The Scholes and Carrick style or Parker + Modric or Carrick + Modric will not fly against Barca, Beyern, City, Chelsea and Madrid. Even Everton, Totteham and other teams playing high tension football will be hard. I can't bear to see Yaya Toure or Ramires tearing a 40yards into our box or Oscar-Hazard-Mata running aroung our third without direct confrontation, not to talk of Barca.

''I moved to Manchester and stayed at Stretford’s house as he made
me part of the family. I thought it was a generous gesture – I later
found out that he had been deducting rent from my earnings.'' Andy Cole.

So Strentford has been the advisor so much referred to? I thought Rooney had a lot of them putting heads together for his good. This Stretford must be into occult for him to be able to so much hypnotize his client.

Scholes never had an agent. Rooney should pull himself away from this greedy man.

BinghiNya: @elampiro< your posts are nice but argentina has won the most copa.

Ok thanks. But wait o, has Messi won it? It looks to me Argentina has not won it for ages.

dademola: wich means u'd hate pirlo, den...

I like Pirlo, Zidane, Xavi and Scholes.

Such players are hard to find. But when you have them you change your team tactics because they are not deep sitting midfielders. Xavi is the only one of them who finds marking opponents an easy job.

When you have a soft playing Carrick, you don't need another deep sitting soft player to complement him. Allow Carrick to sit back, then get a beast who confronts and with energy, mobility, speed, creativity, etc to compliment him. The right mix that will hold its own against the best in the world.
Just imagine a midfield with Carrick- Song- Modric (with Modric in front) on a good budget and transfer availability.

But since we have problems getting players, Carrick- Song- Rooney/Kagawa/Fletcher will fly well in big games while Carrick-Song-Anderson/Cleverly/Adnan will fly in small games.

...and Villa scores against Barca. He celebrated it well.

dademola: busquets placed 2nd! Weda u like it or not, these playrs r praised for der excellent positional awareness, more dan anyfn else!! Assuming u complained of carrick being too fragile, it wld hav been different, bt u to insinuate dt song is a betta plyr just cos he's stronger and tackles more?? Bros, abeg!! Every sane coach wld choose positioning over tackling every minute of d dai. D hallmark of one of d greatest defenders ever; MALDINI, was his excellent positional awareness. He was even sed to hav averaged a tackle only every oda game.

I prefer Song positioning to Carrick's. I dislike defence line that plays too deep, so also I dislike any DM who sits with the defence line.

I also prefer Luis and Ramires positioning to Mikel's.

I just like people who aren't afraid to go out and play football. Yaya Toure doesn't sit back waiting to be attacked.

coogar: go to the previous page - i posted the link to that thread. you were obliterated.



over what? bayern vs man utd? are we even sure it would happen this season? stop getting ahead of yourself - you have not told us yet how lewandowski & mandzukic are better than chicharito....



rooney was tasked to do a job on busquets - busquets start barca's attack, rooney was meant to track back and disrupt the flow from the source, rooney failed totally.



your second name should be contradiction - chicharito found the occasion too big + how many passes did chicharito get on the night? i am starting to think 3 people compose your posts for you.



and what has brazil won with their bulldozing? they got annihilated at the last world cup by sneijder - got destroyed in copa america too. if bulldozing football works then cameroon should be winning the world cup since 1982.

1. This your claim that Rooney was asked to track back is funny. Rooney naturally tracks back. So, he doesn't even need to be told. He did it on the night. No one has evidence that SAF even gave this instruction. Rooney was the only forward man who made his presence felt on the night.

2. Brazil has won world cup and Copa America more than any country. The team that failed to make an impact in the last world cup is different from the new team now. This team is tough, probing, fast, forceful and creative.

3. This argument has unnecessarily digressed to far. It was all about who should fit our midfield to fix the current problem of opponents dominating us. Except we go back to the basics of this argument, I don't think I will like to continue with this topic. The problem I see in our midfield is that of allowing opponents to cruise around virtually unchallenged in the midfield. I highly recommend a player like Song who can probe and frustrate those opposition moves while being able to firmly utilize the ball to the benefit of our attacking build up.

dademola: baba, stop peddling falsehood about martinez. D same plyr u claimed u saw hustlin and bustling in MF actually had d highest nmbr of interceptions in last season's UCL. Go n check d records. I doubt if u really knw d kinda playa martinez is anyways

I saw him in one match which I have used to form my impression about him. In that match he was jumping high and heading away thereby reducing the work for the defenders. He didn't allow Dortmund to use the ball smoothly in the Bayern own third. Did I not come here to ask about him after the UCL final? I like such players who confront. I don't know what he has been doing after that and what he did before.

For the fact that he has the highest interception is an added value and it just goes to show his quality. Why did Busquest not have the highest?

coogar: you were fatally destroyed - you were so ashamed of how i surgically ripped you to shreds - you never came back.



show me where i have ever sanctioned the purchase of cesc as a defensive midfielder or even modric. you better start thinking hard before you post....



how did martinez fare at athletic bilbao? was he not eternally busquets bïtch? if martinez is so good, how come he cannot start ahead of alonso and busquets for the national team?



carrick did not fail against barcelona - our strikers failed to even conjure up any attack. busquets sodomised rooney throughout! when barca met bayern - that was not guardiola's team - they lost a bit of dynamism under the new manager. when bayern faced guardiola's boys, they were destroyed.....



busquets did not let our strikers even breathe - they could score but we couldn't match them in putting the ball into the net. rooney was useless throughout. he was tasked to marshal busquets but he lost the battle.

All of a sudden the argument goes to Rooney- the only one who was visible in our attack on a night Chicharito find the occasion too big, Valencia could not fly while Giggs had to retire to defence to try and help Carrick to shadow mark.

How many balls did Rooney and Chicharito get from Carrick on the night? Valencia and Giggs all joined the midfield to help Carrick.

Spain national think think and play like Barca, the reason they drop Martinez. No see countries like Brazil with midfielders who confront head on, they budoz everyone off the way.

coogar: martinez is so good, a young busquets with the aura of carrick benches martinez in spain. that alone should tell you carrick-like midfielders are preferred to bone crushers. makelele's comparison to carrick is about his interception, short passes that retain possession without ever leaving his position. in a nutshell, positioning is the key.



we need 2 defensive midfielders that can sit back. we have 4 attacking players plus full-backs that love to bomb forward. we don't need fools who would vacate their positions only to lose the ball and cause problems in the defence.



if we have mikel, jones won't be needed. playing jones in the midfield was a tactical error. he's not good at anything than snapping at the heels of the opponents. his positioning is awful and he can't pass to save his mother's life. alex song cannot also pass and his positioning is atrocious. he's not what we need.

Now the summary is that it is two DMs we need? So why did you ever support our quest for Fabregas and Modric?

Martinez went to Bayern to tell that what he has to offer in the midfield is better and more result oriented than what Barca and United has in Busquet and Carrick. When Barca met Bayern how did Busquet shine? Was his style of play able to neutralize Bayern? Same way Carrick failed twice against Barca in 2 UCL finals. Xavi, Iniester and Messi locked the ball away with only Valencia the only United player asking questions.

SailorXY: ^^ I didn't know Rooney had a recent oral surgery probably the reason he hasn't said all that himself, but hired a spokesman

So you want him to contradict his oga at the top before the press?

coogar: that's a stat of tackles won per game.....



what's the meaning of this? opta knows what a tackle is and they go with their definition. mikel/carrick intercept more and they have a higher accuracy than alex song....the things alex song is good with are not required from a defensive midfielder.



exactly my point....
the bolded part of your sentence is the primary objective of a defensive midfielder. for a clearer example, just study makelele. if a defensive midfielder is so silly to get lured out of his position by becoming too attracted to the ball then he lacks positional discipline....

Makelele was not the same kind of midfielder as Carrick. Makalele had some Gatuso element in him. The other day I saw the match between Bayern and Dortmund in UCL final I had no choice than to notice a certain Martinez. Then someone said he was bought for 40m euros. He is different from Carrick and Mikel in the sense he battles for the ball directly by confrontation, that gives little chance for opponents to use the ball comfortably while at same time giving the defense line and team mates less work.

If we have Carrick already who sits back, what we need is not a Makelele who also sits or a Mikel who is afraid to make mistakes and thereby playing too safe 'make d ball no spoil for my hand'. Instead we need someone like Ramirez or Song who can carry the ball to the strikers with great balance and firmness. Song has a big advantage of being an obstruction to the opposition attacking build up. You can't have a Song and then Yaya Toure and Silva running down 40 yards to your defence, he will destroy thaty move. You won't have him and then Hazard, Oscar and Moses tearing your midfield to shred and keeping possession for a long time. He will unsettle them with direct confrontation.

If we have Song, Jones won't ever be needed in the destruction role like he did in Madrid and some other big games. Song will carry out the assignment with great flair while utilizing the balls he won. He is strong on the ball under pressure, he guides the ball and doesn't give a panic pass. He guides the ball and controls it under pressure, he takes it to he forward and even creating his own chances. Ramires does a bit of that too.

Peter Schmeichel: Rooney told me he never handed in a transfer request.

Speaking to The Sun, he said: “I know Sir Alex Ferguson came out and said Wayne asked for a transfer, but I have spoken to Wayne and he said he never did.

“He hasn’t said he wants to go to Chelsea, Arsenal or anywhere else. I hope United play Wayne against Chelsea on Monday. That will put everything to bed.

“David Moyes has said many times that Wayne is not going anywhere — but when he says that, no one listens.

“If you stick him up front you will get 25 or 30 goals. If you play him in midfield you will get someone as close as you can get to replace Paul Scholes.

“I think he wants to play up front and score goals, but he will do anything asked of him.”

coogar: seems you dunno this new generation of football fans - they use goals/assists to judge every player. elampiro would argue enyeama is better than petr cech cos enyeama scores more goals.....

follow this thread https://www.nairaland.com/871307/official-manchester-united-fan-thread/6#10279939

i remember pointing it out then that the stats show mikel, carrick, etc are better than thread when Mr TA provided their stats. mikel even made more accurate long balls than song and the general perception in the football world is mikel only makes sideways and backward passes that are not more than 5 yards.

Your stat states tackle per game, but was silent on tackles won per game.

It also depends on any individual to determine what to call a tackle. Mikel and Carrick don't really tackle, they shadow mark which allows the opposition to still utilize the ball effectively.

A player who plays safe and seat with defenders is more likely to make more accurate passes and concedes less dribbles than the ones who venture and try to deal with potential threats in the middle of the field than they become real threats in their own third or box.

El Guapo: [color=#0066ff]Do u really have to wait to get dribbled then take off a run? What a skewed analogy!

Wikipedia can define better for u what/who a DM is, they dont actually wait to get dribbled, they intercept passes that'd by every eventuality lead to getting dribbled. And u dont get to intercept a pass when u've already lost ur cool chasing a goal u werent assigned to score.

Watch Makelele play, Viera, Ambrosini, Gilberto Silva, Gustavo, Mikel, Busquet and many more - They define DM![/color]

The stat that Coogar published showed Song is only beaten once in a match. Now it depends on where on the pitch he gets dribbled. Someone like Song and Luis who aren't afraid to throw themselves to a tackle anywhere in the field are more likely to be beaten more than Mikel and Carrick who run to joing defenders when the ball is coming. You have to look at the overall play in a match. How many tackles won is a better stat than how many times beaten. You also have to look at how relevant the player is in swift attacking build up. Why is Luis or Ramires more rated than Mikel?

If you guys believe it is all about not being beaten by opponents and making short passes, then there is no need for Modric at all as Mikel is readily available at a low price.

Song, Ramires, Luis are capable of forceful run down 40 yards and easily retract to defend. Song has an added advantage of being a clog in the wheel while chasing opponents backwards and coupled with the fact he is creative.