₦airaland Forum

[quote author=PAGAN  9JA link=topic=784774.msg9385522#msg9385522 date=1319147565]also the prosperous Haussa Bakwai in its early days, The Yoruba Kingdoms before the colonisers came, The Igbo Kingdom of Nri (Odinani), a place where slaves were set free from their bondage, The Bamana Empire, etc.


my friends, there is no shame in God-idolatory. we have to stop being inspired by this false missionary-inspired misconception. The idols are just[i] representations [/i] of the God. the rock/wood idols are themselves not worshipped, but what they represent is worshipped. after all, i bet each and everyone one of you think of an image of God while praying. one CANNOT worship thin air and feel devotion towards it at the same time. such a prayer is namesake FALSE DEVOTION, which is how muslims pray.The idols help us to feel that soul-devotion towards the Gods and help us to visualise the Gods. We humans are materialistic in nature and thererfore we express ourselves to the Gods the way we think,i.e., materialistically - through idols.[/quote]I believe many of those idols are symbolic. The cross poses as a symbol in Christianity.

The Bible was said to be "inspired by God" when man wrote it.

Thus is it not possible that some of these physical representations of a deity(ies) were god-inspired also when etched out by man. . .

We are human beings not celestial beings and so the means in which we mere mortals comprehend and interpret god is largely via concrete means.

The Bible/Quaran is laid out in text which of course is a means of communication. Art is also a form of communication and despite the fact indigenous religions wasn't captured in a textual format  it was however translated via art.

I like the point you made about pagans not worshiping the raw materials of the idols but the essence and what they ultimately embodied.

Furthermore I believe everybody want's a tangible piece of God.

This is why before christianity, there were NO RELIGIOUS CONVERSIONS and RELIGIOUS WARS, because everyone knew that inspite of being different, they all worshipped SAME GOD(s).

What about those who may have quite possibly married outside of their ethnicity at the time, don't they "convert" to the religion of their spouse?

I also wonder (well at least concerning your own faith) is there any initiation process more so for outsiders who are looking to get in? or is it exclusive to your ethnic group?

I get very [size=15pt]very[/size] irritated when some pedestrians walk at a snail pace and even more irritated when they don't want to make room for you to pass

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=785821.msg9384826#msg9384826 date=1319139336]Right. Polygamous households will carry more children. But this doesn't by itself increase the total # of children in Nigeria.

Hmm, sometimes easier to see things if you use an extreme example.

If we pass a law saying that all women in Nigeria are now the "property" (so to speak ) of ekt_bear (a very extreme form of polygamy in which one man has ~75 million wives), then assuming those women don't make any changes about how many kids they want to have, the population growth of Nigeria would be exactly the same.

ekt_bear's household is now huge, but the household of every other man in Nigeria is now very small (just him by himself.)

This is why I say that polygamy in and of itself cannot affect population growth. The total # of children produced is all that matters, not whether a man has 1 wife, 4, or 10.

But there are probably some more subtle effects going on that do cause a relationship between polygamy and pop growth.[/quote]lol @ your extreme[/b]ly wonderful [b]example

okay I understand the point you're relaying however. I think I will research this issue and see if there truly is a correlation between polygamy and population size.

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=785821.msg9384917#msg9384917 date=1319140243]Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro-polygamy or something (my religion doesn't permit it.)

But I think if you want to limit population growth, you limit the # of kids, not # of spouses.[/quote]I'm not against polygamy but I hate the idea of Nigeria being encouraged to adopt an X child policy, it seems way too intrusive and quite dictatorial if you ask me. I thought that one man, one wife scheme may be a bit impersonal and less harmful in it's approach but of course I wouldn't want it imposed on anyone. . .it was just an alternative suggestion that I believed could serve Nigeria without having to follow the China route which I dread.

Nayah:
^^And I'll add Dede that KHADDAFI was the only one talking about UNITED STATES OF AFRICA but governement like Senegal, Ivory Coast ( OUATTARA), Compaoré or Bongo ( Father) have done everything to ruin it!

Bonsoir Nayah

Whilst Khadaffi indeed was one of the strongest voices pushing for a "united states of Africa" even so far as the Caribbeans lol you have to understand that he was serving his own interests not Africa's. I will admit that I am actually disappointed and disgusted by the news of his demise and that in his long reign he obviously must have done some good (he had 4 decades to) however he is no hero and certainly not because of his death. Study his title for a start - "King of Kings of Africa". He wanted a united Africa in which he would ultimately be ruler or maybe form an oligarchy instead. He bought the love of many African nations via sponsoring them with his country's petrodollars and also remember he also sponsored some civil wars in his so called beloved Africa.

Furthermore look at some of his statements which betray his character. . . "Nigeria should split into several states" yet he wanted a "united States of Africa" at the same lol. He ultimately served his interests and as cliched as this sounds there is[i] pride before a fall[/i] although I will not celebrate this man's death, it is quite poignant.

I however understand the reservation some have concerning this and other outcomes on the continent because of those who played a part. I dislike observing African leaders being booted out by or with the help of the west because whomever may be the successor of that particular nation will obviously have to be pleasing to the West. Today they are congratulating Libya on their "new found democracy", yesterday they were shaking hands with Ghadaffi . . .it's all very murky to me.

Libya will be very intriguing to observe in the future, I wish them all the best but remain slightly doubtful for now.

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=785821.msg9384541#msg9384541 date=1319136789]Does monogamy actually reduce population growth rates?

Mathematically I don't see why it should. . . if each woman will have X kids, it doesn't matter if each woman is attached to only one man or several are attached to one (of course, sucks for the guys since there are less women available.)

But maybe polygamy means each woman will for some reason decide to have more kids (perhaps marrying younger and thus start producing kids earlier, for example.)

Anyone seen studies on the topic?[/quote]Intersting comment. I actually don't know if monogamy affects population growth rates but I did assume that a polygamous household will on average carry more children.
However what you said about it not impacting on the issue whereby each woman was to have X children with one man or a polygamous man, well it kinda does . . . because if a woman married to a monagamous man had 3 children, in total the household will carry 3 children. In a polygamous household (let's say there are 2 wives) that born the same X amount of children, that household will then have 6 children so it does have some sort of affect. Igbo2011 and namfav did highlight an important issue whereby the number of children in one polygamous household may be equal to the number of children in a monagamous hosehold so that was something to consider.
. . .but I like I said before, consequently it won't boil down to only taking care of those children in a polygamous household but also the mutiple wives in that household because resources must be shared.

namfav:
@emofine, what is wrong with polygamy, do you come out of that? my father with 2 wives and i never experienced problems,

I honestly don't know what was hard to understand in what I was trying to say.
Did you read anywhere in my posting that I said there is anything "wrong" with polygamy? and no I wasn't raised in a polygamous household. I did say however that people are affected differently by a polygamous houseld, for you you had a great childhood, for my mother not so great . . .I just wanted to counter your earlier remark that women against such union must be governed by insecurity by highlighting it's not always the case and that people have different experiences which have obviously weighed on their opinions about certain issues.

I did say however that it would be better to adopt a monagamous union than adopt a one child policy because I do not anticipate any forboding or harm in one man having one wife but maybe there would be some side effects for a couple to have one child . . . like I said before it's not as straightforward as ABC because a woman could be pregnant with multiple babies and/or abortion may become a popular option in the country.

and i know alot of people who come out of bigger familes with only 2 parents, so polygamy does not only work with big families,

Here I agree and what you have said matches with igbo2011's first comment which I have already adressed.

what is bigger families is marrying at a young age, that is when you find couples with big families, maybe you may just start stopping the youth from marrying young or stop early relationship if you want to stop alot of babies

Valid point you have coupled with a suitable suggestion.
Lastly, I don't want to "stop alot of babies" I just want to stop the one child policy promoters from encouraging Nigeria to adopt that awful scheme so I was considering less harmful alternatives

igbo2011:
@emofine
In Chiina they tend to kill abort more daughters than sons because they need male strength to do the farming in the rual areas. This is pretty bad and if this sort of thing happened in Nigeria then itwould be bad too. Do you think that Nigerians would abort sons or daughters more?

Yes I am aware of what has gone down in China concerning that policy and that's why I fear when people encourage Nigeria to adopt the X child policy because of the potential consequences and even though I understand that Nigerians view and value children differently from China I'm just worried about the side effects i.e. high abortion rates.
Plus whether Nigeria agrees to such program or not (which I am very confident they won't anyway) Nigeria has the highest incidence of twin births in the world so adopting that policy would definitely threaten a child's life.

. . .and another thing. . .

People have spoken about family planning etc and rightly so, but sometimes a couple who might have planned for only one child at a particular time may beget triplets instead and that should challenge the one track rhetoric which suggest that some people have children anyhow or without investing some thought into the matter beforehand.

namfav:
if men dont have 2 wives or something there will be more single women, one wife policy is as bad as one child policy, it wont work in nigeria, it is totally against society,every man who can afford 2 wives has to get 2 wives, its no one business, people have alot of mistresses anyway, only insecure women are against polygamy, my father has 2 wives and it works fine

Oh I am very aware it would not work in Nigeria I just thought it would be a better alternative because I doubt it's side effects (if any) would be as bad as the one child policy.

If I may ask why would it be "totally against society" to court only one wife, is it compulsory to have more than one wife
and having mistresses is not on the same scale as having multiple wives because the aim most of the times is not to impregnate the mistress which thus implicates the man.

Sir, you say that if a man can afford 2 wives then he should thus acquire two wives lol that actually falls in line with the logic of some who believe children should be reserved for the wealthy populace.

Finally. . .I doubt "only insecure women are against polygamy", both my grandparents were polygamous but my mother had a tough upbringing and that obviously would make her consider the trials of marrying a polygamous man . .  it's not always harmonious between one man and wife let alone one man and his wives there are various reasons too but I'm glad it works fine for your father.

igbo2011:
What is th difference between 1 man and 1 woman having 8 children than 1 man and 4 women having 8 children total (2 each)?

That is a good point and is the same as comparing a childless couple to a couple with 4 children which effectively balances the equation. However those instances cannot be relied on because the probabilty of them occuring frequently is not that high and when you think about it 4 women plus 8 children now have to be catered for as opposed to only 1 wife and their 8 children. I'm not a huge fan of this X child policy program but if population appears to be a point of concern that is inspiring various solutions such as the infamous X child policy I'd rather the factor that was considered and limited would be one that doesn't potentially threaten the life of a child or harm society.

Having one wife won't harm anybody. Having one child won't harm anybody either but if a lady happens to fall pregnant again after borning her first child or is carrying twins I would be sad for her if her sole option was to seek an abortion because she has to maintain the population quota.

I believe such a policy will encourage frequent abortions but I'm also confident that it would never be implemented anyway because Nigerias society is very much different to China.

Lust is only stronger in it's intensity but not it's longetivity.

I wonder where his female bodyguards were doing during this event

. . . it seems a little surreal right now

na wa for "king of kings" his fall is behemothic

It could be a false alarm though

Population has been a prominent and cliched subject concerning Nigeria with the UN being the latest counselor to our supposed or potential "problem".

Suggestions such as the infamous X child policy has been cast at our country in what some consider an urgent matter.

Since population seems to be a recurring theme instead of considering the number of children how about considering the number of spouse(s) as some have suggested.

One man and one wife is surely better than "one child".

Although I doubt such limiting factor will ever be implemented, is it not a much better proposition than borning one pikin?

Population has been a prominent and cliched subject concerning Nigeria with the UN being the latest counselor to our supposed or potential "problem".

Suggestions such as the infamous X child policy has been cast at our country in what some consider an urgent matter.

Since population seems to be a recurring theme instead of considering the number of children how about considering the number of spouse(s) as some have suggested.

One man and one wife is surely better than "one child".

Although I doubt such limiting factor will ever be implemented, is it not a much better proposition than borning one pikin?

bonjour ma soeur jolie

Maybe it's just me but Miss Nigeria kinda looks Southern African or perhaps it was just that particular picture.

People seemed a bit stunned by Miss Guinea (due to their high prevalence of beauty back home) but I am more shocked by Miss Angola

I've seen Miss Guinea in other pictures and she's quite pretty - maybe not the prettiest Guniean girl but many of these beauty pageants are hardly the epitome of beauty from their nation of origin.

. . . like I said in my introduction, there were so many gods in Nigeria . . . yet all of them were made redundant and labelled "false". . .just like that. .they are all unworthy idols? if we were even seeking a "right God" why couldn't we endorse one from the countless gods we have instead of a foreign God because we sure as hell won't pick an Israelite or Arab to be a president of Nigeria when we have so many potential candidates within our country.

Okay so if animists never had a similitude or a tangible depiction of god(s) would that have made traditional beliefs "right"?
If animists had written their faiths in text long before the Euros etc would that have qualified those faiths?
If traditionalist had practiced monotheism would that have made their god the "one true God"?

BlackLibya, I am so glad you highlighted that the concept of "one God" wasn't solely a European or Arab concept. . . you are right, certain African religions held onto that concept too.

I appreciate the information you rendered thank you, now I must go and do my own research.

[quote author=obo_man link=topic=784774.msg9374997#msg9374997 date=1319040344]@ OP, quite a few things are wrong with our indigenous gods,


1,  Would you like to go inside the forest Unclad carrying a calabash ( a form of sacrifice) to appease the gods? You then notice one dirty old babalawo drooling by the corner.

2,  Their demand for human sacrifice

3,  labelling innocent kids and old women witches and wizards.

4,  Consistent sacrifice,  Imagine a poor man with just few livestock, and he is required to make sacrifice to the gods to get rid of of 'evil spirit',

5,  the list is endless,  I can go on and on

Having said that, these gods are man-made. Every thing that you could think of that is wrong with man is wrong with gods ( all religion included, including the imported ones from Arabs and white)[/quote]I'm sure those rites are not practiced by all.

exotik:
^^
lol, misconceived or right on point? i know what you are going through whether you admit it or not.

ok since you have given me a third chance to hit the nail on the head, here it is:

you are interested in learning more and if possible reverting in your ancestors religion, and from what you have written so far, i guess it is IFA. but since you have a christian background that has demonized IFA as “idol worshipping” through the ages, the only way to validate your interest in IFA is to start questioning the motives of christianity in our society and you just added islam as jara since nigeria also has a huge muslim population. then after getting all the answers you already know from the internet, that there is nothing wrong with IFA,  you will “quietly” revert to worshipping IFA, or at least in your heart.

Your effort wasn't too bad but whilst you were initially swimming close to the answer you suddenly sank lol.

I generally ask questions not to be a pain but because that's how I learn and to gather a plethora of thoughts (good or bad).
Well I never came here to seek validation or create a revolution. . in fact before creating this thread I anticipated abuse however I just wanted to undertsand why our former gods are considered by and large "wrong" or "false".
There is so many bad connotations attached to traditional religions but why must they be considered in one frame, if they were truly bad or unsustainable then like with Christinaity (for example) they could have undergone reformation.

I do have a Christian background and my parents wanted or assumed I was going to be one. I tried to be a Christian for their sake, then for God's sake. . . that didn't work so for a while I pretended to be one but I couldn't keep up with the pretense and eventually came out of the closet - so to speak. . .
I explained to my parents that spirituality isn't hereditary and just because they are Christians doesn't mean naturally I will become one just like they had rejected their own parents gods.  I understand they would not give me something which they believe is unprofitable to me but I didn't want to accept a religion that was "chosen" for me rather I'd prefer to go on my own spiritual journey just like they had done.

You are correct, I do have an interest in Ifa but you are wrong in assuming it was the religion of my ancestors. I was serious when I stated I wasn't planning to pick up from where my ancestors left (like I said I don't believe spirituality is hereditary), but I have an interest for all religious bodies, but if I was to commit I don't want to pick and mix from each faith nor do I want to enter any faith half-heartedly.

I withold from reverting because as I have said many times I don't believe religion is herediatry and if I didn't want to be a Christian soley based on the fact that my parents were then I really would be kicking myself in the butt by adopting the religions of my grand parents if based primarily on genealogy.
Secondly, I want to make sure I feel compatible with a faith and lastly in all honesty I believe that I am courting romantic notions about traditional religions because I haven't experienced them first hand . . it's like children wishing they were adults and once they finally enter adulthood they are hit with the realities that comes with that transition.

you just added islam as jara since nigeria also has a huge muslim population.

I was talking about the eclipsing of native beliefs so of course I had to include Islam, even though that is not my background it still fit's into the equation of my hypothesis.



P.S the clip was beautiful thanks for posting and offering a translation.

Bawss1:
Ultimately parents should have no business deciding the religion that their children adhere to. This is an area where the individual is entirely responsible for himself. All they can do, and should do as parents, is to be good examples of their faiths bearing in mind that the decision to belong to that particular faith is up to the child.

This whole concept of indoctrination is wrong and carries consequences that follow us even after this life is over.

I completely agree.

exotik:
lol, i did see the last question and honestly, unless you are 12 or below, only then would you wonder if it was fair or not. is there anything fair in this world? or you just wanted to let us know that you can think "deep?"

and after thinking deep, you have finally realized that christianity and islam are fake and the whole “right" God concept is fake. so if you are going to serve and worship a God, it would be better you revert and worship those of your ancestors? but you are just too scared to come out and say it, don’t you?

Why don't you try third guessing me next time since your first and second were malconcieved

Oh and remember the rule: "three strikes and you're out"

chipmunkey:
I for one would have preferred in Jesus Christ was African. I would relate better with a savior from my Continent. I don't like the Idea of a Jewish God though i'm a fan of Judaism.

I appreciate your honesty and I for one completely understand. I also used to challenge myself and wonder how the message would have affected me if Jesus was indeed an African, I guess I sort of feel he is far removed from me. . .

blackpanda:
Well, i the way you think. I believe the whole demonizing thing was part of the enslavement and colonial process.i.e "make them feel like they are bad, dirty, barbaric and worthless". The white men sold us a lie. All they needed do was simply sow the seeds of distrust and inferiority complex in order to achieve their aims.

. . . even our phenotypes were demonized

Today, if u are caught serving your ancestors gods, people will look at you as immoral and unrighteous.

you can also add "primitive" to that enviable list

And by the way, why do they make us spell the christian God with a capital, and ours with a small letter?

hmm, its high time we start thinking and open our eyes!

as for me I spell the Christian God with a "G" out of habit . . .well I was once a christian (not out of choice mind you) and despite my current rhetoric I cannot deny that some Christian doctrines are now embedded into my make-up whether I like it or not . . It's difficult to completely flush out of my system.

dippy yoo:
Indigenious gods are barbaric,Human sacrifice is synonymous with these gods.
get it into your thick skull.

smh

[quote author=Mr--Why link=topic=784774.msg9372610#msg9372610 date=1319021730]@emofine

I like the way you think. You are quite deep and the true daughter of your father. You are on point. I wouldn't like to expatiate more on what you just said. It requires in depth critical analysis and could warrant writing a book on here.[/quote]Thanks but I'm actually regarded as the prodigal in my family lol.

Please feel free to write at whatever length you want about the subject I will surely read it, I'm just gathering thoughts and certainly would not be deterred by the length of a post.

A Jewish man once asked me " Why didn't your people keep the ways and religion of their fore fathers".

It is quite unfortunate that many of our people do not understand the word "reformation" in religion context. Even Judaism has been reformed over and over again. We have orthodox Jews , Reformed Jews, Conservative Jews and others. The worst part of it is that our people who take this imported religions as part and parcel of their life do not know the History of these religions. They lack the aptitude to research and read more on it and for the most part, they hate to think.

As Henry Ford said, "thinking is the hardest thing there is".

I agree with you 100% about the issue of "reformation"

buzugee:
if you have read the bible extensively from cover to cover you will find out that worshiping idols is the ultimate sin that does not sit too well with God. what does he do to those who partake of such sin ? he removes his protection from them and lets them get invaded looted robbed pillaged and enslaved by their enemies. 'you will be carted off to a new land in which you will serve as slaves'. your land will be pillaged constantly. you will never find peace. you will be inundated with turmoil. there will be lots of suffering. does this all sound familiar ? AFRICA right ? the garden of initial civilization. well this is what happens when you start using humans as sacrifice and start carving out gods to worship. the obatalas, sangos, oyas, mamiwater, juju, voodoo etc etc. colonization, slavery, unfair trade, etc etc ? these are our enemies looting and pillaging us. it is all scriptural and prophetic.

First of all even though this topic allows Christianity and Islam to be relevant because they have eclipsed our indigenous beliefs I would rather the greater emphasis awarded to the native faiths and not the wonders of Christianity or Islam.
Sir, I have not read the bible from cover to cover but I know that "worshipping idols" is one of the sins outlined.

Secondly, I could also ask you if you comprehend any of the indigenous faiths from head to tail because you are in effectively saying that those "idol worshipping" beliefs are secondary to Christianity. . .and it's akin to the thought that if not by the grace of God that cultural incubator known as Nigeria would have never encountered "the way, the truth and the light" a.k.a civilization thanks to God’s selfless messengers of the faith - the Europeans.

And since it was apparently in the scripture it is part of God's greater plan, right?

Well I think that the two most significant components that separates traditional beliefs from the imported faiths are:
1) Text (they had a book that served as a guideline and reference)
and. . .
2) Monotheism they pretty much consolidated the supremacy and faculties of God into one whole being

Had our ancestors perhaps contained their belief in prose as the couriers of Islam and Christianity then maybe those traditional beliefs would have carried much clout.

buzugee:
as per our invaders introducing their religion to us ? nah they are re-introducing your religion back to you. the lord works in mysterious ways. that religion was your religion which you transfer ed to the greeks who then transfered it to the latin and onto the romans. the lord had your invaders re-introduce your religion to you while invading you. its all pretty deep really but the lord works in mysterious ways

Hallelujah isn't God good, chai!

So let me try and comprehend this. . .

We or let's just say our early ancestors were worshipping this particular God long before the sinful Europeans and so as messengers of the "one true God" back then evangelised to those European sinners (without the means of slavery mind you) to repent and accept this merciful God.
However once upon a time our righteous ancestors rebelled against Jehovah and started carving out a collection of idols each steeped in "witchcraft" and substituted God for them.
Our backsliding ancestors thus needed to be punished for their abomination and tada the now righteous Europeans as part of God's masterful plan came back with the gospel to re-convert us with the good news coupled with a revolver just in case some stubborn persons didn't get the kind message.

Yeah I must agree with you that's pretty "deep" and the Lord truly works in "mysterious" ways. . .I'm just so sad for those who were killed prematurely by the "messengers of God" before they could repent and heed the gospel.

But do you not actually see the biggest irony of it all? These outsiders who came with a standardized faith written in their own language - so obviously they must have known what was in this very book - yet many broke perhaps all of the ten commandments yet simultaneously wanted to do the "will of God" by turning us away from sin and bringing us into the christian fold.

Nimshi:
All children are born with no belief.

The evidence is abundant: many children will simply follow the religion of their parents, as children do in most things.

The environment is powerful, just as nurture is.

I believe so too also we must also consider that even if those children do not follow the path of their parents they have been greatly affected anyway . . . I will be honest and say that as a child once when I wanted to rebel at what I considered to be a ready-made religion chosen on my behalf I thus sought for Islam, not nearly because I was intrigued about the faith but primarily because I wanted to oppose my parents so whilst I backslided from their doctrines it did still influence my trajectory somewhat as I deliberately sought an opposing path if you get what I mean

Nayah:
Emofine; sister for me the ring is the symbol and NOT the proove of love
Matrimony in front of GOD, in front of my family: Pormising you'll cherish me, love me, support me and protect me these prerogatives are more important for me than the ring

Bonjour ma soeur ça va?

lol mon francaise c'est mal

I also don't view the ring as a proof of love I don't even regard marriage as a proof of love but I did say that the ring is just a seal of the union. There are other alternatives to a ring but of course it's merely a physical evidence and symbol of a bond and so I was curious to a suitable substitute or if there are other cultures which practice a different system


[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=784199.msg9371169#msg9371169 date=1319009408]I know that the deeperlifers use bibles as a band.[/quote]lol you're right from what I've observed.

buzugee:
your native gods are why you are in the predicament you are in right now.

expatiate please

pkv:
Handcuff shuld do na, it does not only tells but restricts!

loool

akinmax:
Who is this emofine self? your pomposity has ruin the tread, you ask a question and you are answering it by yourself others people comment/opinion seem not relevant na oh! , this speak volume of why you are ask this question  .

Emofine is the author of the thread, nice to meet you sir/madame,

er well I do apologize if I came off as pompous but that was not my intention. I was just addressing a few not so serious remarks in the thread that indicates that some may not have taken a moment to read and digest the opening or following posts and I do know the difference between mild humour and outright mocking.

Yes I asked a question to seek for "relevant" answers not airings.

A wedding ring is not the only symbol of a union so I was trying to canvass other depictions, my parents for one don't have a wedding ring so this question didn't materialize out of thin air and that was one of the reasons I asked the following question abeg.

Lastly please do not presume to know who I am because you'll surely fail

[quote author=Busy_body link=topic=784771.msg9369723#msg9369723 date=1318977147]na wetin that indoctorinated mean sef, of course i know it definitely has something to do with doctor, i am 100 % sure of this. . . . Ha it is distasteful to boast, but what an intelligent brain i am blessed with, wow i surpass myself all the time, lol.[/quote]Indoctrination is foisting your doctrines on another person.

[quote author=Busy_body link=topic=784771.msg9369549#msg9369549 date=1318974871]IMHO, ain't nowt wrong being nurtured and raised to be a good christian, good muslim, good olumba, good ifaolokunasoroDAYO, good citizen or what have you, methinks.[/quote]Well isn't the religious disposition already decided for the child? I mean how different is being raised a christian etc to a parent wanting their child to be a doctor or actress and so nurtures them in that particular pathway? Shouldn't the child be left alone and once old enough to form their own reasonable opinion have a choice in the matter that will ultimalty and primarily affect them?
How can a small child who may not fully comprehend the weight of such religion decide at an early age they want to be a Muslim or Christian? Were they not encouraged to follow a path that they wouldn't have otherwise even considered in their care-free thoughts?

P.S. I'm just thinking out loud and already I perceive that there are some holes in my laid out thoughts.

PhysicsQED:
I usually avoid religious discussions like the plague, but let me point out here that Christianity and Islam are just modifications of Judaism. So really, there was only one group (Jews) that "had the good news" and spread it to the pagans, if you accept or believe in one of the Abrahamic religions. I don't think the Jews oppressed, killed, and looted us.

Yes I understand the origin of all Abrahamic faiths however regarding the offspring religion the couriers of such (which were not Jews) are the ones which have a blood soiled trajectory in Nigeria and I point at them and not the Jews irrespective of such religions birth. Concerning the Jews and them being in the position to spread their faith . . .while they may have been the sole bearers of "the good news" they are very conservative, whilst other faiths encourage or even force others to join the fold being initiated into Judaism is much more rigorous than uttering a simple prayer of repentance. The dominating religions in Nigeria are both Christianity and Islam so despite the birth of those religions and it's preceding handler I feel I have no warrant to evaluate Judaism and it's cause as I do with the others.

It's akin to me begrudging the Latins/Greeks etc for haven at least provided the skeleton of the English language which has crept on our primordial shores competing with our indigenous language(s). The Latins, Greeks whomever never spread the English Language even though they provided much of the language's DNA . . . so if I was to carry a sore about the dominance of the language in foreign countries I would first look at the English not their forefathers or former rulers etc.

As for why some of the native religions are not looked upon favorably in many parts of Nigeria, I think it has something to do with this.

I think native religions are looked down on in most of the world except for parts of Asia (India, Japan, etc.). The Arabs, Europeans, South Americans, etc. don't seem to practice their native religions much either.

It's interesting however that even though Nigeria is known for it's religious composition consisting of Islam and Christianity, one of the top ten religions in the world with a wide following pertains to a native one - Ifa - however it has obviously been remixed over the years by followers in places such as Cuba.

I guess I see native religions just as important as these imported faiths and I do understand that there may have been some rites attached to some indigenous religion that would be considered barbaric today and rightly so but such element wasn't even unique to the native ones. Most if not all Abrahamic faiths (for example) have been modified like with Christianity the new testament is what normally governs the Christians . . .and even in times past the church had undergone reformation i.e. Lutheranism.

If such episodes had taken part in the shaping of Christianity etc I do believe that native religions would have eventually had their own reformations (if need be) . . .hmm perhaps some did.

Anyhow, I appreciate your input.

There's too many qualities to list but most of all I love their spirit

MsDarkSkin:
what not to like about [size=5pt](most of)[/size] them? 

loool

I'm not comfortable with such glances but I must admit I do study others intently - as an artist it's my duty to observe

Do people actually read the introductory post before commentating or just look at the title and conclude from there because some of the sarcastic answers are just hilarious by the way, at the very least if for whatever reason you manage to stumble into a thread and don't fully grasp the theme then study the previous answers as an indicator if you're a bit to weary to read, cheers.