₦airaland Forum

lexiconkabir:
Stop being mischievous, what's the sentence before that? I said once there is a clear evidence, no more ijtihad

lexiconkabir:
And where did i say there is no more ijtihad? You have to read carefully, cuz i noticed you dont, you read my reply with the aim of refuting? Really its not fair.

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lexiconkabir:
That case ia different, the prophet was around to authenticate what they did, as we know ijtihad is done in cases where we have no ruling from Quran or sunnah, but once there is clear evidence, [size=16pt]no more ijtihad[/size], follow the clear evidence, now in the case of the sahabas the prophet was still receiving wahy, so we cant compare it with today, where the religion is complete.

lexiconkabir:
My understanding of your statement, "But a true muslim in this same line would go to the farm, before he picks the leafs, he says "La awla wala kuwata ila billah" is, you are saying these things because you feel saying it brings some sort of cure and i was speaking in that context.

Contact17:
Honestly I stopped discussing the issue with him/her any longer since I raised questions and he/she couldn't answer, but rather started focusing on something else. Then he indirectly started accusing the sahabas of having weak Iman.Then the focus turned to using herbs. I have always stated that if healing is based on the Qur'an and sunnah, then it should be accepted.


"Anyways, theoretical and spiritual approach in islam leads to Jannah. Extremism on both sides are the problems. Read this, I do not expect Rosululah(saw) to enjoin his companions to recite Yasin 200x. If that was the case, they would not embrace islam or they would leave it. We cant compare our weak iman, weak spiritual insight with theirs. A very simple dua of the prophet could solve their problems. But now, in this day and age with atrocities around us, someone comes to you for dua and you tell him to to read Sahih bukhari and recite istighfar 10x and that's?. You kidding. The person wont feel anything at all."

I stopped taking him/her serious after that. I posted hadiths about the status of the sahabas and didn't quote him/her expecting him/her to take it off but it's still there.

lexiconkabir:
Empiree, in time of the prophet, weren't there herbs? Why havent we seen one single account were the prophet goes to the bush, pick leafs and say "la hawla wa la kuwata illa billaah" on it to cure? So are you saying these people know the Quran more than the prophet?

Note, i am not saying using herbs to cure is bad, but what caught my attention is the "la hawla....." Part, who gave them the go ahead to sau this thing on the herb for curing purposes? If you mix herbs normally and it cures people, fine! As far as it is not harmful, we don't have problem with that, but you trying to tie it to Islam is what we wont accept, khalas!

lexiconkabir:
No, jabata and his likes says the words of "scholars shouldnt be taken, go to the Quran and sunnah all by yourself", so there is a difference.

Good, now these Alfas say read yasin x200, now reading yasin isnt the problem, but if you have the aqeedah that, reading it x200 is du'a, then that's bid'ah, because bid'ah is ibadah, and any ibadah that do not have isnad to the Quran or sunnah is bid'ah.

Empi.ree, any practice we dont see our pious salafs doing in the past, is pure nonsense, do you understand Islam more than the salafs? The best generation?

Contact17:
[size=2pt]It was narrated from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The best of the people are my generation, then those who come after them, then those who come after them.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2652) and Muslim (2533).

It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do not revile my companions, for by the One in Whose hand is my soul, if one of you were to spend the equivalent of Uhud in gold, it would not amount to a mudd of one of them, or half of that.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (3673) and Muslim (2540).


It is very important to watch what we say about the companions of the prophet (peace and blessing be upon him). There were among the best people whose level of Iman we will NEVER be able to reach. These were the people who saw the prophet( peace and blessing be upon him) with their eyes, believes his message, were oppreseed for accepting Islam, and fought to have the Islam that we enjoy today.[/size]

For those who care to know.

[size=18pt]herbalist -a dealer in medicinal herbs

Alfa- word for a Muslim scholar (and occasionally any Muslim) not just in Yorubaland but in Nupeland, Borgu, Igalaland, Ebiraland,

Therefore going from that, if someone specializes in using herbs to cure illness, shouldnt be using the title of an Alfa. Alfas aren’t specific to curing illnesses.[/size]

Contact17:
"they make us rely on kufar system. When you go to modern hospitals, most of which are non-muslims, you have no idea whats contained in the pills they prescribed to you.Yet you believe them and take the medicines. But you have problems with muslims doing the same even if it is local way?. Understand that those pills and soaps you use contain animal product. This can be pork as well. But we trust them anyways bcus it is "modern",

Modern medicine isn't a Kufar system or do you have evidence that suggests otherwise? There are many Muslims and Muslim countries working hard out there is ensure that they are producing safe medication without using pigs. Usually if a medication contains pork- it will be labelled.
If by using local way you mean herbs, herbs is a form of medication and whoever practices using that should be learned in it.
[size=14pt]Lastly if someone is using herbs to cure then they shouldn't bear the title of an Alfa[/size][size=8pt] because that is something completely different.

Emp.iree

Contact17:
I am not diverting anything. I am confident in my claims.
I know first hand Alfas that say putting salt at your door step will prevent evil from happening. Will that prevent something Allah has decreed from happening?
I know first hand Alfas that claim things that aren't from the Qur'an or sunnah. For example, is from the sunnah to cut people using razor and rubbing a black powder to offer protection, saying that it would offer protection?
We know from the sunnah of the prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) that specific verses from the Quran that may be recited[b] to seek protection from Allah. [/b]

I know first hand Alfas who claim to know the unseen, predicting other people's affairs when they know not about theirs.

I will leave you with this- The best talk (speech) is Allah's Book 'Qur'an), and the best way is the way of Muhammad, [b]and the worst matters are the heresies (those new things which are introduced into the religion); [/b]and whatever you have been promised will surely come to pass, and you cannot escape (it)(Sahih al-Bukhari 7277).

Ma salam.

lexiconkabir:
Empiree whats the definition of bid'ah? Pls i need a straightforward answer.

Contact17:
Empir.ee I was with you until you mentioned


This is how innovation usually starts. Does the Alfa know more than the one whom the Qur'an was revealed to? If the prophet didn't say that reciting certain verses would cause a certain thing to happen. Then who is the Alfa to say that? It is similar to people sending messages that saying the shahada 100 will bring good luck. Where did they get that from?

Alufa/Alfa- is a widely used word for a Muslim scholar (and occasionally any Muslim) not just in Yorubaland but in Nupeland, Borgu, Igalaland, Ebiraland, etc
A Muslim scholar is expected to follow the Qur'an and Sunnah not bring innovations.

lexiconkabir:
The people that do these "malpractices" call it "jalabi" so if truly you wanted us to forget about the name, then we mentioning the name as a malpractice shouldn't have given you a problem in the first place, everything must have a name, and the name this deviant Alfas call it is jalabi, which is what we will call it, any "iwosan" that has no isnad to the book of Allaah or the sunnah we will call it jalabi

Yes the essence tassawuf is there even if this term is not in the sharee'ah, but as far as your tassawuf dont have any link to Ath-thaqalain, it will be rejected,

"People claim that I am a sufi (practitioner of tasawwuf). I respond, "Yes, I am a sufi as long as tasawwuf refers to knowledge, action, compassion, spiritual ecstasy, orthodox belief, and Divinely inspired knowledge. I am a sufi as long as tasawwuf is but an elaboration of Ihsan (inner goodness & excellence), the third part of the true path completed by Islam (outward practice) and Iman (faith).”

"I am a sufi as long as tasawwuf indicates the purification of the soul with mandated acts of obedience to God accompanied by voluntary acts performed seeking Divine proximity. I am a sufi as long as tasawwuf means struggling to overcome the ego and emigrating from sin, due to the saying of Prophet Muhammad (God bless and grant peace to him and his family): 'The true emigrant is the one who emigrates from sin and the true warrior is the one who battles against base desires.'

"I am a sufi as long as tasawwuf means indifference to what is with people and yearning for that which is with God. And I am a sufi only if tasawwuf signifies the unveiling of unseen realities and inspired knowledge of God the Creator.

just like someone saying read yasin x200 so so and so will happen....

no one is saying that healing is not in islam, but do it in sharee'ah compliant way

that term jalabi is known for what i had said earlier, and that is what we will call it when referring to deviant alfas,

you are mixing things up, what i know is act of charity brings healing too, so slaughtering an animal in order to feed people is charity, not that the slaughtering itself is the main thing.

That case ia different, the prophet was around to authenticate what they did, as we know ijtihad is done in cases where we have no ruling from Quran or sunnah, but once there is clear evidence, no more ijtihad, follow the clear evidence, now in the case of the sahabas the prophet was still receiving wahy, so we cant compare it with today, where the religion is complete.

Now, did the sahabas established a place where they do "jalabi" after the incident like these deviant alfas do today?

The silence of the prophet here means what they did is correct, we have cases where the sahabas did ijtihad that were wrong and were later corrected by the prophet, like the case of a sahabi that killed his offering before salaah eid, tje prophet corrected him.

i will keep saying it, nobody is denying the essense of healing from the Quran and Sunnah, but do it in sharee'a compliant way.

Ijtihad of pious salaf, not just anybody, once there is clear proof the ijtihad will be discarded, and as it is, I'm yet to see any salaf that established a place where he "heals" people a.k.a jalabi.

Ok, but do it in sharee'a compliant way.

As far as i know, if someone says jalabi, we all know what it means, so if i describe jalabi as what i described earlier. I'm nor wrong because this is what our society knows it as.

Contact17:
The topic was written to expose malpractices so that the people may gain knowledge and stay away from misguidance.

Anas09:
[size=15pt]Yes, yes, you are correct. Islam is against rape,[/size] [s]that's why a woman must call four muslims men to witness a rape act against her so that she can't indeed establish her case, with them confirming that indeed she was raped.
Yes, rape is a crime in Islam that's why mothers keep covering their husbands and son's act of rape up by taking their daughters to female doctors for their private parts to be sutured up before marriage or else, it will be discovered that she's not a Virgin and be stones.

How many rape cases happen in Islamic countries every year? Even with the women going around like masquerades the Satanic Muslim men till get sexually aroused and rape them. But the women turn out getting flogged or better still, stoned to death for accusing a man of rape.

Why wasnt false prophet Muhammed stoned? All the innumerable sex slaves he raped. Why Wasn't he stoned for raping the Jewish girl he kidnapped, killed her husband, father and brothers, and then raped her continuously that same day? He raped her until the day she poisoned him with goat meat. She shd have given that dog park to eat.
Have you ever had sex with a 9yrs old girl? Yes, of course you have. How did you get into it? You guys talked about it and she conscented to it right?
She knew what sex was and said yes right? If you don't call what False Prophet Muhammed did to Aisha rape, what will you call it? Conscented sex? Between a 53yrs and a 9yrs old?
Are you alright?

Will you give your 9yrs old daughter to a 53yrs old bearded man, with lice in his private part to have sex with?
If you come near my daughter to as much as say 'hello', I will use a rope on you. Trust me it won't be fun.[/s]

kilo4sure:
The bible has punishment for rape, but surprisingly punishment for rape is not in your Quran. Why is that the case?

lexiconkabir:
however whatever that cannot be proven from the Quran or the Sunnah is what we will go against.

and in this era what is jalabi known as?

Anas09:
If its allowed in Christianity how come we don't support them, hide their acts and pretend they never happened? Why then are we the Christians the ones shouting agaisnt it the most? Why aren't w lik muslims covering them up and keeping straight face? The rape in Islam is a plague. Your Imams do it with glee. They do it with levity because they know that no one dare talk about it. The girls can't, because they'll be stoned out right.

Fathers and brothers raping their own daughters and sisters. Why dodn't we hear about these things. except one of you receives Christ?

We don't cover evil. Rape is evil. If any man dares it, he is made to marry that girl and live with the tag "Rapist'. But in Islam its permitted. Now it has extended to be illegal for Father's to rape their daughters and be right about doing so.

Contact17:
I am sorry but I don't understand your post and it's relation to the topic. Perhaps it's angle I am reading it from?
The topic discussed going to Alfas for fortune telling (which is kufar and shirk) and prayer. It never discussed ruqyah or healing from the sunnah.