Empiree's Posts
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@Albaqir, indeed you do have right to open whatever topics you want and post whatever you want. I am not posting here just for sunni-shia thing. Rather for the cause of Islam. I will have to put you in the same category of some of our salafi brothers whom I have criticized for being too sectarian. Brother Sodiq you quoted op there realized without being told this thread is sectarian just by reading your op. You may twist it all you want. Fact is we are advised to get out of sectarianism. There is nothing wrong discussing differnces but when it getting too constant, then, there is motive behind it. Whether you like it or not brother, it's what you doing. Sheik Imran Hussein gave his advise and intelligent people should learn to do that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX2W_M897Mo I will just watch this thread from afar now. I see no reason to contribute further. We already have fair debate on other thread about Aisha. Here is more advice on COMBATING SECTARIANISM IN ISLAM for those who which to learn to do that. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sheikh+imran+hosein+on+sectarianism Walaikum Salaam |
Sadiq3051:just nailed it |
albaqiryou see albaqir, I dont believe in the idea of converting from sunni to shi'i vice versa . All that sounds silly to me. I already gone through this experience 7yrs ago. That's why I don't even want to engage much in sectarian discuss especially "SUSHI". It's irrelevant to me unless when and where its necessary. The only conversion or reversion I believe in is from other religions islam. Islam does not recognize sunni or shia. The names are themselves innovation. When I first heard someone said that in 2008 on fb, I thought 'what the heck are we turning islam in to'. Is "conversion" from sunni to shi'i make sunni kafir?. Absolutely not. If that's the case them, to me it is irrelevant. The conversion only surrounded by some kalif. Nothing to do with the belief of La Ilaha ila Allah. Not believing or believing in any of the kulafah Roshidun is not a condition that upholds or nullifies one's islam. However, for me and some sunni, castigating any of the 4 for rightly guided caliphs is casting massive vote of no confidence on the prophet (saw). I likewise do not believe in the idea of bashing shia not being muslims. I'm definitely against that as well. But trying to get me to engage in unending "SUSHI" i:e sunni/shia debate is extraneous to me. I said many times in the past that I already being through that. It doesn't solve anything. |
Ranks007:you still alive ![]() |
dragnet:is it bidah and haram? |
Op, I do respect your passion for the deen. However, do you actually think for a second by "exposing" the first three Imams would change anything. That's rhetorical question by the way. And I think reading from your reply to me up there shows that you were pregnant for far too long ![]() Well, ain't take anything personal. My question to you now is, if Abu Bakr, Umar Faruq and Uthman bin Affan (RA) are evil, who are those (then) Quran (9:100) is talking about according to your exegisis?. Imam Ali (RA), Fatimah (RA)?. Who else besides these two and well-known connected with the prophet (SAW)? Anyways nothing will change. Both sides will hold on firmly to their literatures till the end time. It's being over 1400 yrs now, albaqir can not change anything. My advice is both sides should respect their differences. Sunnis will forever love and respect Umar ibn Khattab (May Allah be pleased with him) https://www.nairaland.com/1424784/umar-ibn-alkhattab-golden-leader Ranks007:
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Hadith Of The Day
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kazlaw2000:You remember this post a while back?. A brother i told you his father cheated on him?. Guess what, one of the children "adopted daughter" living with his dad, is doing wedding today in Egbaland. The brother just told me now that his Dad, his friends who are also Alfas are well dressed and attended the wedding. Not that he has problem with that. The problem is this man never attended any of his own biological children's wedding. He gave excuses. Matter of fact, his father and the girl's mother wear the same nice dress to the wedding today. But Back in 2013 when my friend's elder brother did his wedding in 2013, he did not attend. He came late with casual dress. When he was asked why he doesnt wear same cloth like his wife (son's mother}, he said his tailor died lol ![]() When his first son did his wedding in 2007, he put up huge fight with everyone. Now he attends adopted daughter's wedding (not legal adoption). Well dressed. And the wedding is currently ongoing. Crazy world isn't. |
ayinba1:Walaikum Salaam warahmatullah wa barakat. It aint gonna get better. This is just one of the many Signs Of The Last Age Allah's Messenger (saas) said: "The Harj (will increase)." They asked, "What is the Harj?" He replied, "(It is) killing (murdering), (it is) murdering (killing)."(Bukhari) The one who kills doesnt know why he kills. The one who is killed doesnt know why he's killed. It's confusion everywhere. Our prayer is seeking protection of Allah from this menace. We just dont want to be unfortunate.
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enieme:Yep |
Ewooooooooooooooooooooooo everybody ganged up on me. Ye paripa ![]() usermane, whatz up?. I was actually expecting you would be here soon. Ain't got problem with you bro. Just be happy Albaqir, you dont seem to get it though. Bro kazlaw2000 just said my mind up there. It's not about the evidences you provided. I am not just interested in going through all that. The other thread where we had fair debate on Aisha, i only chose to go through that for educational purposes I can almost always understand your motive behind thread like this. This is the reason i eschew not because i can't debate academically. My point is, do we really need this unnecessary sectarian division in this day and age when unity is of supreme importance? I have gone through this before from 2007 to 2011. That is why i see no reason going through it again. It's never resolved. Like Sheik Yasir Quadri once said, it's better not to dwell on differences btw the two sects. It far too irrelevant to me. I have defended the Shia against Sunni and Salafi here several times. So i see no reason for this. It will never end. Your motive is questionable here not about not being able to debate academically. And yes, we should fear Allah what we say about these men. These are front runners of Islam. |
YourMain: ![]()
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[quote author=YourMain post=39747684][/quote]where's your husband, OREMUSSANCTUS ![]() |
what happen to her? |
MrOlai:I love this translation better: "The vanguard (of Islam)- the first of those who forsook (their homes), the Muhajir (immigrants) and of those who gave them aid, Ansar (supporters in Madinah) and (also) those who follow them in (all) good deeds,- well-pleased is Allah with them, as are they with Him: for them hath He prepared gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein for ever: that is the supreme felicity". Problem albaqir has with this verse is that 'Allah did not mention their names'. That is what albaqir once told me. But what he doesnt seem to understand is that these Sahaba, at least "The First Rightly Guided" are very close to the prophet. So even Quran doesnt mention them by name, there is 95% chance that they are included in this verse. So all the ahadith in Sunni literature that the Shia use as evidence against Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman are fabricated as far as I am concern. I have said this before and will say it again: Anyone who says Abu Bakr, Umar Faruq and Uthman ibn Affan (RTA) are usurpers is misguided. Quran is very clear. |
HAkorehdeh:You made great point @bolded. I notice that a lot actually, especially with Mr fundamental ![]() And @underlined, that's very true. And the evidences they got are even from Sunni literature. That's just sad. It makes it really difficult to put up defense. One can not blame Albaqir for that. So my only conclusion to the so called evidence is that they are fabricated. They are in conflict with Noble Quran since Quran has guarantee paradise for these great men called Sahaba (RTA). |
HAkorehdeh:See, there's nothing wrong having fair debate btw sects within islam for educational purposes. But when debate leads to argument and foul word, for me, it's time to call it quit. I already figured out some 7 yrs ago there is no way differences can be solved until Allah's intervention. Therefore, suggestion is way around it. I will only engage in sectarian debate for learning purposes. Sometimes one is blind by sect he belongs to. One naturally have soft spot for the sect he/she belongs. |
HAkorehdeh:lol, ain't shia I don't even belong to any sect. My ideology may lean towards salafism and Sufism....that's all i know. Pls visit my page and look for a thread on sheik Adam (RT). I think it's the last video the man said something to that effect. The thing is, those are extremists. Their actions can not in any way judge entire sect. Plus you need to understand statement of rosul (SAW) and perhaps Qur'an where we are warned to not cut each other's throat after prophet is gone. That's one point. Another point is the influence of foreign agents. Some muslims work for judeo-ChristIan terrorists alliance. Those muslims can be found mainly among salafis and some sufis. I said salafis because I was once there and fbi and new York police wanted to hire me to do dirty job for them. This was in 2011. That's why l dumped salafi ideology. Police actually came to my house promised to pay me 1000$/wk to be their stooge. Hell, Empiree remembered word of Allah in Sura Maidah Ayah 51 and kicked them to the curb since then the suckers tailed me everywhere I go. So make no mistake those sob bombing each other, amongst them are puppets. |
@HAkorehdeh, islam is indeed free from any individual schism. Don't get it twisted with individual Muslim ego. I really see no reason for this thread. I have said time and again since I was active on NL last yr that differences can never be resolved but a way around it is the way to go. This is why I limit my criticisms of any sects except for extreme individual. Shia will forever hate the first three kilafah but that would never change history. Repeating it over and over would never make Hazrat Ali (RA) first caliph. But unnecessary hatred btw few muslims from both sides is causing lots of problems locally and internationally. So don't worry yourself. Just be happy. |
AHadith And Pictures of the day
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Hadith And Picture Of The Day [size=80pt]Dajjal’s Donkey[/size] 1. Jabir bin Abdullah (ra) narrated. That Prophet (saw) while discussing about Dajjal said: And his donkey on which he will arrive, will have a span of 40 hands between his two ears.[Musnad Ahmad]. 2. Ibn Umr (ra) narrated: Prophet(saw) while discussing about Dajjal said: He will have a donkey whose span between two ears will be 40 Ba.[Kunzal Amaal]. 3. Abu Hurrairah (ra) narrated that Prophet(saw) said: Dajjal will come on very white donkey.Whose span between two ears is 70 Ba. [Bihaqqi]. 4. Prophet(saw) said, “The distance between the two ears of the Dajjal's donkey will be 70 cubits” [Baihaqi, Meshkat]. 5. Nawas(ra) bin So'man narrated that : Prophet(saw) said, “The Dajjal's movement will be very fast. It will roam the sky like a cloud driven by wind.” [Muslim, Tirmizi]. 6. One of the companions asked,” O Allah’s Messenger, how fast will he travel? Thereupon he (saw) said,” like cloud driven by wind”. [Muslim,Tirmizi] . And in one Hadiths Hazoor SAW said about Dajjal that it will land on every water and ferry except Madinah and Makkah as Allah has prohibited these two cities for DAJJAL. Flying Donkey ![]()
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Good one. I also blame some parents. I have heard cases of guys complaining about their parents in this regards. Either way, them guys need to face their book ![]() |
^I dont think he understands that. Everything is bid'ah and haram in his dico. He didnt bother to respond since you asked him ![]() |
Hummm, alright. Unless something more interesting comes up later on this thread,
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Fundamentalist:You have longed enough here(NL) to prove @bolded, you could not prove that. And when you did in other threads some months back, the best you could do was copy/paste Sheikh Bin Baz(RA) on islamqa. smh "tibyanan", can you carry on reasonable conversation rather cheap shot?. "tibyanan" (making things plain and clear). What do you want to derive from that. Ain't got your time for the rest of the day. Am out. Walaikum Salaam. |
^ My mentions dont come on whenever you mentioned me. Notice that since yesterday. Anyways, the three points you raised, again, i say this is another typical example of what I have been saying. It's just another Sunni version of the whole thing- just like in Shi'ism. That's the way i see it. Nothing more. |
Fundamentalist:Honestly, i thought you are smarter than this. The verse ^you quoted is UNIVERSAL. You dont seem to know how to express yourself. SMH |
AlBaqir:The hadith was originally narrated concerning ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him). Bukhaari and Muslim narrated that al-Miswar ibn Makhramah said: ‘Ali proposed to the daughter of Abu Jahl. When Fatimah heard of that she came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and said to him: Your people are saying that you do not get angry for the sake of your daughters, and ‘Ali is going to marry the daughter of Abu Jahl. The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) stood up and I heard him when he recited the shahaadah, then he said: “I gave a daughter of mine in marriage to Abu’l-‘Aas ibn al-Rabee’, and when he spoke he told me the truth. Fatimah bint Muhammad is a part of me, and I do not like for her to be hurt. By Allah, the daughter of the Messenger of Allah and the daughter of the enemy of Allah will not be joined together as wives of one man.” So ‘Ali abandoned that proposal. According to a version narrated by al-Bukhaari: “Fatimah is part of me and whoever angers her angers me.” [al-Bukhaari no. 3523 and 3556; Muslim, no. 2449]. By examining the report quoted above it will be clear that if blame were to be laid on anyone, it would be laid on ‘Ali (may Allah be pleased with him), because the reason why this hadith was narrated was his wish to propose marriage to the daughter of Abu Jahl, as the result of which Fatimah (may Allah be pleased with her) became angry. [size=15pt]It is established among the scholars of Usool that what counts is the general meaning of the words, not the specific reason for them,[/size] but it is also established that the reason for the text must be taken into account first and foremost and the reason cannot be excluded at all. When some Shia quote this hadith as evidence for criticizing Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him), because of their ignorance and trickery, they conceal the fact that criticism if there is any criticism, would be directed at ‘Ali first of all. ![]() * The anger mentioned in the hadith occurred for a specific reason which is mentioned above. This indicates that the anger arose not because Fatimah(RA) was infallible or whatever claims some people make because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was keen to protect his daughter’s feelings, and what upset her also upset him (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). This is indicated by what is mentioned in the report of Muslim: “Fatimah is a part of me and what hurts her hurts me.” This was offence caused to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and it has nothing to do with the matter of infallibility as those some claim. This is genesis of saying 'if you beat my daughter you beat me.' The phrase commonly used in Africa when their daughters are given in marriage. * The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said in other sahih ahadith: “Whoever obeys me had obeyed Allah and whoever disobeys me has disobeyed Allah. Whoever obeys my commander has obeyed me and whoever disobeys my commander has disobeyed me.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 6718; Muslim, no. 1835. According to consensus, even among the Raafidis, this does not mean that the commander is infallible; rather some of the commanders sent by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) made mistakes in some matters which it is known went against the Book of Allah and the Sunna of His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). An example of that is the proven report in which: ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) sent out an expedition and he appointed in charge of them a man from among the Ansaar and told them to obey him. He got angry and said: Didn’t the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) tell you to obey me? They said: Yes. He said: Then gather firewood for me. So they gathered it for him and he said: Light a fire. So they lit a fire. He said: Enter it. So they thought of entering it, but some of them held others back and said: We have fled to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to escape the fire. They stayed until the fire burned out and his anger died down. News of that reached the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and he said: “If you had entered it you would never have come out of it until the Day of Resurrection. Obedience is only with regard to that which is right and proper.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 4085; Muslim, no. 1840. Hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) restricted this obedience only to that which is right and proper. So if the anger of Faatimah was part of the anger of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), then according to consensus it is limited only to that which is right and proper, and if the anger of Faatimah was for reasons that were not in accordance with the law of Allaah, then what is right and proper is to implement the law of Allaah, even if it angered Faatimah. Hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If Faatimah the daughter of Muhammad were to steal, I would cut off her hand.” And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “O Faatimah bint Muhammad, save yourselves, for I cannot avail you anything before Allaah, ask for whatever you want of my wealth.” This implies that she was not infallible. Then, I ask you of your understanding of ahadith Thaqalain and Khalifatain?!This ahadith is quiet profound. Although i basically see it pretty much as Sahih ahadith. Definitely, it is worthy of merit. |
Fundamentalist:Including ALL POWER, INTENT AND EVERYTHING ABOUT ALLAH? Well, I opened my arms to you in friendship and alliance but you closed it. So you deserved to be crossed out. |
^ The only thing you so impressively presented is your ability to glean evidences from Sunni literature, especially that of Alamah Albany (RA). That I think is very problematic. I am not a scholar of Hadith to analyse authenticity of those ahadith you cited against Hadrat Aisha(RA). The thing is, like I previously presented, that Rosullah(SAW) also considered Aisha part of his Al-bayt. I already cited the hadith above. What the hadith you quoted doesnt say is "special household". My point is it could have been mere versions to suit each sect. The hadith I quoted clearly state that prophet mentioned Aisha as well. And that is Sunni hadith. I also cited Aisha's (RA) involvement in the Battle Of Jamal that she was not the commander as you previously claimed. There is no doubt that there were mistakes on her part which she regreted. I clearly demonstrated that as well. This is why I said earlier that these are no issues that have greater negative effect on the Deen. Take the case of Abu Bakr(RA) and Fatimah(RA) for instance, the prophet love both and are beloved to him. Yet, after the prophet, both quarreled till their last breath. Who's going to judge that except Allah. Yet, Allah and His prophet revered these people. Reading from Sunni tradition, it's clear that they have no problem with Al-bayt as understood by the Shi'i. To me, all i can say is there is some sort of hatred, schism that only led to these disagreement btw the two major sects. End |
plappville:[size=20pt]Stick This Is In Your Brain, Baby.[/size]
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Fundamentalist:You remind of my grandpa of blessed memory. When I was in college in ilorin about 18yrs ago, we were given assignment which was part of my project to look for the name of mother of Yusuf or Yunus. Can't remember which one. So I took a month off to take care of my project and left for Ijebu-ode to meet grandpa. Granpda was old time Sumura section of sufism. He was very strict on the Sunna. Anyways, he was in his bed when i met him and asked him the question. He started telling me story of it. Then he mentioned her name. He told me all these offhand. I asked: WHERE IS EVIDENCE FROM THE QURAN?. My grandpa looked at me and smiled. He said he has the story in some of his books on the shelves. My point to you is I understand the idea of "following Quran and Sunna". It is worthy of praise when people like you call to follow Quran and Sunna. But i most cases you brothers fail to understand that Quran is quiet detailed and preserved and only men of knowledge with wisdom can penetrate it. What I mean by penetrating Quran is seeking implicit knowledge. There are two ways of acquiring knowledge in Islam: Implicitly and explicitly (internal and external knowledge). You and co only pursue external knowledge which is fine with me. My grandpa has ocean of "tira" in his apartment. Really old stuff that are now being expunged in many so called Suhih ahadith. He passed away in May and left a Will that his apartment should be transformed to library and no one should take out any book (tira). He wants people to read right there and leave it right there. May Allah bless him. Ameena So the idea of follow Quran and Sunna or seeking evidence from Quran is rather too elementary the way it's being thrown around by every Tom, Dick and Harry. Had it been Prophet(SAW) did not mention Dajjal in Suhih Ahadith you would not believe it. The same way Quranite don't believe in existence of Dajjal because they dont see it in the Quran. And I think Albaqir should at least provide some evidence from Ibn Kathir as you rightly said. That would have been great counterclaim. |
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