₦airaland Forum

lexiconkabir:
salamua'laikum, pls can you summarise the video for me? I'm presently not using a smartphone

AlBaqir:
Is stoning to death for adulterers really part of Islamic code of punishment?

@Em.piree I have been keeping myself real busy searching for views on the subject above. Contrary to my initial submissions, I review certain arguments and continue my search rather than concluding as before.

1. The two sects (both Sunni and Shii) have "Sahih" ahadith which stressed that "ayat rajm" existed in the Qur'an. Whichever way the ahadith reported it, the bottom line is there is nothing like that ayah any longer in the Quran.

2. Sunni claimed the ayah was erased (abrogated) but the punishment is still intact. This argument as said initially is weak because whenever a verse is erased or caused to be forgotten, a better or equivalent ayah is revealed to replace it and the new hukm is implemented {Q.2:106}. Sunni failed woefully to point out the replacement of "ayat rajm" if at all it was once part of the Quran but erased.

3. What about countless Sahih ahadith which showed stoning was practised? Here I agreed with Sheik Imran Hussein that those events probably occurred before Surah Nur: 2 was revealed. Meaning whatever the punishment was for adultery before, this new revelation abrogated it and established a new law in flogging for whoever commit ZINA.

4. Quran emphatically used the word ZINA which includes both fornication and adultery.

5. Here comes the problem which Sheik Imran failed to tackle (in the video above): Should we believe that the events of stoning in those ahadith occurred before revelation of surah nur:2, what about several athar (saying and practices post prophet) on stoning attributed to the so-called "Khulafau rashidun (rightly guided caliphs)? Were they deviant of Allah's legislation?

For now I need answers and views. I have sent series of mails to several scholars home and abroad, both Sunni and Shia, on this subject. When I watched a true life story film {the stoning of Suraya}, I get a gist of practicality of "stoning to death". Very horrible and terrifying. And I ask myself, what is the philosophy of this punishment?

AlBaqir:
@Empir.ee, seems our little discussion on your thread has given me series of antispam bot ban some days now while my comments repeatedly deleted.

Anyway, the popular, the most publicized hadith of "I have left for you the book of Allah and my sunnah" is not only a single reported hadith but a fabrication per excellence.

While it is obligatory for all muslim to follow and adhere to the Sunnah of the prophet, where we derive the Sunnah in order not to be led astray is the most important. While Sunni follow the Sunnah through the report of every tom, dick and harry companions be it a mu'min or munafiq or apostate, the Shia follow the Sunnah through the prophet appointed Ahl al-bayt;

Lastly on wudhu, Imagine that brother! I haven't even explore the Quran verses on wudhu, now we don't even seem to agree on the definition of "wipe (المسحة) and wash (الغسل)"!
If you submit that "wash = wipe", then can you wipe your face and hands in wudhu as Quran command "wash your faces and your hands"?
Wash involves " to move by the force of water in motion" while wipe simply involve passing or robbing wet hands over.

AlBaqir:
[size=13pt]I subscribe firmly to the opinion which says Allah is everywhere with everything and in everything.[/size] His existence is not of a physical or spiritual being we can ever comprehend. He is not confined to a particular place where He moves from one place to the other with time. "Glory be to Him far from what they ascribe to Him.

To put this straight, Maula Ameerul mu'mineen, Ali ibn Abi talib (as) says:

He is not alike any form and neither is He perceived by the senses. Nor can He be compared to anything. In spite of being far, He is near and despite being near, He is far. He is above everything and nothing is above of Him. He is ahead of everything and nothing is ahead of Him. He is inside the things through His power, but He is not like something, which is inside something. He is outside the things but He is not like something, which comes out of something. Purified is one Who is such and other than Him is not like this and He is the beginning of everything. {Usul al-Kafi, vol. 1, pg. 86}.

Fundamentalist:
My friend the only thing I can learn from you are deviant ideas and innovations. And I can't stomach it because I have been an integral part of it before I discovered guidance, ahl sunnah wal jamma


By the way, your brother in deviation is not going to be happy about your statement, about Allah being above and beyond His creation

Fundamentalist:
And that shows how confused he is, while you're no different. Shi'ism gave birth to Sufism. Let me educate you a little. Aqeedah of Shi'ism and Sufism believe Allah is not above His throne, rather, they say He is everywhere, where was Allah before creating the heavens and earth

Also the so called batiniya knowledge, claiming there is hidden knowledge only your shuyuks and imams can know? That's absurd, knowledge in Islam is very open nothing is hidden


I ONLY COMMENT WHEN NECCESSARY, UNLIKE THE TWO CONFUSIONISTS ABOVE ME

true2god:
You are not a good student of history.

true2god:
Islam will soon be expelled from the civilized world. Islam had been expelled before and will soon be expelled again.

Anas09:
The Muslims hijacked the thread. Am not suprised, they will know better, their prophet mohammed worked and interracted with Jinns all his ministry. Just that the Jins pretended to be Angels, and Satan pretended as the true God. So, go on and enlighten us muslims, we r learning.

Dharniel:
are you from west germany?

kazlaw2000:
@empiree, I would strongly advise the brother not to start a fire he cant quench. He should just walk away quietly and keep the man at arms length. As for the mans curiousity, that can be tackled by an halal disinformation strategy. I strongly believe the man will live just long enough to regret his actions.

nabiz:
Pls what do u mean by DIY