₦airaland Forum

@Maxindhouse has redefined God and reinterpreted scripture to that view

FxMasterz:
What blasphemy!



How can you claim to be sharing the same line or thoughts with Jesus by calling Him angel Michael or saying He starter reigning in 1914 contrary to the Scriptures? Even believing that being a part of an organization is superior to having the Spirit of God in you, all in blatant disregard for the very Word of God. Are you a comedian?

John 3:16 says God loved the world. If this framework divides the saved into two permanently separate classes with different eternal destinies, it creates some confusion. How does equal divine love result in unequal eternal outcomes? The verse does not limit God’s love by class or destination; it applies to the world as a whole.

MaxInDHouse:
Why couldn't your Muhammad welcome all forms of worship?🤣

Interesting how God so loved a segregated world and sent a segregating prophet

Read your entry I responded to and feign oblivious innocence more.

MaxInDHouse:
Where is the abuse o?😟

This is the Bible not your Quran where you can't answer any question so what you should do is humbly learn not trying to imply what those who knows nothing about God told you.

Meanwhile you haven't answered one single question with that your Quran o!

Perhaps you have forgotten here is the question again:

Where did God create Adam and Eve in the beginning?

Please quote it from your Quran!🙂

I see your means of passing information derives from subtle abuse. This only shows how vile your thoughts are. The thread title is what again?
If new heavens means a new government, the 144,000 cannot also occupy a literal heavenly realm. A symbolic reading removes the separation required by the two-class view. You cannot interpret it symbolically when convenient and literally when needed. That inconsistency weakens the framework.

MaxInDHouse:
If you want to learn opportunity to do so is there but when you choose to argue based on what the false religions in the world infused in your head that's your own cup of coffee!🙂

What is the essence of creating earth and putting humans there if heaven is where God intended for humans?

Muhammad knew nothing about God that is why he was mixing everything together.

New heavens and new earth are symbolic terms and it simply means new governments and new subjects who are willing to live with righteousness {2Peter 3:13} not another planet. God has promised never to destroy earth in fact He said this planet earth will last forever! Genesis 8:21-22; Psalms 104:5; Ecclesiastes 1:4

Now it is very clear how different your views of God and eternity are. Your eternal paradise consists of a merged heaven and earth however new you claim these to be. The questions still remain about a specially two classes of saved people then where exactly is hell since you have located your own heaven in a new earth? Invariably then is why God comes down and not formerly mortal go up to meet the supreme?

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus said his disciples should pray for God's Kingdom to come {Matthew 6:10} so that as angels are doing the will of God in heaven the same could be done here on earth!

Oya answer the question using your our Quran nah!

Where will the resurrection be heaven or earth?😂

You sure got more to contend with.
1. The dead and buried on earth body is resurrected for what purpose? Delivery of judgement and passage to where eternity would be spent?

2. Your book says this is the same earth yet it's asked what should it profit a man to gain the whole world and loose his soul?

3. You pray to a father who art in heaven where Jesus goes to prepare a place for you yet it will still be on earth?

4. Is the resurrection in classes that will be separated or what?

MaxInDHouse:
Where will resurrection take place?

Heaven or Earth?🤣

You still cannot produce your scriptural evidence for separate saved people in either heaven or earth ?
Psalm 115:16 is being stretched beyond what it actually says if it is taken to mean that humans are permanently limited to earth. In context, it speaks about God’s sovereignty and humanity’s earthly domain, not a complete statement about eternal destiny. The Bible itself presents a broader picture, including resurrection and final judgment (Daniel 12:2; John 5:28–29). So doctrine is not normally established by isolating one verse while ignoring the rest of the text.
The same principle applies to the Qur’an. Islam also distinguishes between earthly life as a temporary test (Qur’an 67:2) and the eternal outcome in the Hereafter, whether Paradise or punishment (Qur’an 98:8; 3:185). So the idea that humans are simply earthbound forever does not fit the Qur’anic framework.
The real question is not whether earth was created for humans a both traditions acknowledge earthly human life. The question is whether Scripture explicitly teaches that humanity’s final destiny is exclusively earth and not also connected to the heavenly realm. That conclusion requires more than Psalm 115:16 alone; it must be demonstrated from the complete scriptural picture. You are yet to do this.

MaxInDHouse:
See the problem with you?🤣
How can you be expecting all answers you want regarding a subject matter to be EXPLICITLY written in just one verse but when i throw similar questions to you your Quran can't even answer at all?

Ọmọ the earth is the place God created for humans as permanent abode {Psalms 115:16} that's why i keep asking you to make you use of your Quran and reason because God had no plan for humans in heaven!

So withdraw the word CONFINED earth is where God designed for humans not heaven!🙂

You've actually illustrated the point: your interpretation requires two classes of saved people with two different eternal destinies.
John 14 says believers will be with Christ, and Psalm 37:29 says the righteous inherit the earth. But none of the passages cited explicitly state that only 144,000 go to heaven while all other righteous believers are confined to the earth.
Revelation 14 mentions the 144,000 with the Lamb, but it never says they alone inherit heaven. More importantly, Revelation ends with God dwelling among mankind, not with two permanently separated classes of the saved (Revelation 21:1–3).
So the question remains: where does the Bible explicitly teach two distinct groups of saved believers with different eternal inheritances?

MaxInDHouse:
Where is Jannah, heaven or earth?🤣

Two destinations:

1. For the few chosen to rule with Christ:

“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Exercise faith in God; exercise faith also in me. In the house of my Father (heaven) are many dwelling places. Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you. Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be"

2. For all other righteous servants of God who aren't part of the chosen:

The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it! Psalms 37:29

How many are the CHOSEN?

Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. Revelation 14:1

What about rest of the righteous?

And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. Revelation 14:6

One funny religionist whose book can't answer any question will be questioning the Bible! 🙂

What the Quran says has been stated so no need to repeat the eternal end of al-jannah or jahannam. The issue from your submission is two different classes of people inheriting the earth or heaven which isn't your scripture bound.

MaxInDHouse:
What exactly did your own Quran say on the matter?
Bible stated that righteous will inherit the earth so let's hear from your Quran if it can answer any question.
I won't tell you anything again until you quote where your Allah in that your book says the righteous will inherit!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Even if you see the answer you will still argue whereas your Quran can't answer any question.
Psalms 115:16
Told you God gave mankind earth and that is where we are to live forever if we prove to be righteous! Psalms 37:29

What does your own Quran says about the same subject?🙂

Don't you understand?
Neither passage you refer to mentions a separate permanent heavenly destination for a numbered ruling group or any segregation . Both passages describe one people inheriting one earth.
The two-class framework is being built on top of these passages, not drawn from them. They are being recruited into a conclusion they do not state.

Do well to address this misnomer.

These six questions are reasonable starting points for anyone sincerely seeking to understand revelation. The issue is not about if those questions should be asked, but whether the conclusions being drawn are actually established by the texts. Psalm 115:16 says that the heavens belong to God and the earth is given to mankind. This shows humanity’s earthly existence, but it does not automatically prove that all saved believers must have an eternal earthly destiny.
In fact, the Bible itself contains passages that describe salvation in terms of being with God beyond earthly life. Jesus said in John 14:2–3, in my Father’s house are many dwelling places… I go to prepare a place for you Paul also speaks of a hope laid up for you in heaven; Colossians 1:5, and a citizenship in heaven (Philippians 3:20). These passages show that the biblical picture requires careful examination rather than simply concluding that salvation equals permanent earthly life.
The Qur’anic view is internally consistent. Humanity was created from earthly material, life on earth is a test, death is followed by resurrection and judgment, and the righteous are rewarded with Paradise (Qur’an 2:30, 23:15–16, 67:2, 99:6–8 ). It clearly distinguishes the temporary worldly life from the eternal life to come.
Likewise, Luke 20:34–36 describes the resurrection state as being like the angels in that people no longer marry or die. It does not explicitly establish a separate permanent class of heavenly rulers and earthly subjects.
The government-house analogy also requires more than illustration; it requires clear scriptural evidence. A society having rulers and citizens does not automatically mean the saved are divided into two permanent eternal categories.
The real question, therefore, remains if there are two different groups of saved people with two different eternal destinations, where does Scripture clearly and directly state that distinction? Where does it plainly identify one class as eternally heavenly and another as eternally earthly? Because without a clear biblical statement, the doctrine creates the very confusion it claims to resolve; two saved groups, two final locations, and two different purposes in God’s completed plan. The burden is not to assume the separation it is to prove it from the text.

MaxInDHouse:
Imagine both of us never had anything to do with these books and someone is about to convince us to believe what is written in any of the books is it not wise to ask these questions:

1. Where did this Creator intended for humans to live in the beginning?

2. What led to all these troubles?

3. Why do people die and where are they now?

4. What is happening to our dead loved ones?

5. What is God's program for the earth in the future?

6. What will happen to all those who are virtuous?

All these questions and many more are answered in the Bible that is why you need to examine what any of the book says before questioning one simply because of what the other says.

God never intended that man should live in heaven {Psalms 115:16} so earth is the only place habitable for humans because we are made of flesh just like other creatures. Psalms 37:9-11, 29; Proverbs 2:20-22
Heaven is for spirit creatures that is why Jesus promised his corulers whom he wanted to take along with him to heaven {John 14:1-3} that they will no longer live as humans but as spirit beings (angels) in their new destination. Luke 20:34-36

In any society the rulers have their own abode government house so Jesus promised that his corulers will be taken to heaven with him and of course they are limited in number! Revelation 7:5-8; 14:1

This is clear enough if you're not going into unnecessary arguments.

So i purposely exposed your book so that you can see your Quran can't answer any question at all everything is confusing.

When i said no Muslim scholar can use your Quran to answer any question you may think i just said it but now it's been proven! 🙂

There's no need for ridicule or valuable arguments to win by that. The issue isn't whether Adam was created from the earth. Muslims affirm that as well.o
Genesis 2:10–14 associates Eden with earthly geography, including the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, so an earthly setting is a reasonable reading of the text. But even if we grant that entirely, it still doesn't answer the question that was raised.
The discussion was never about whether Adam was created on earth. It was about where the Bible explicitly teaches two permanent classes of saved believers with two eternal destinations. Pointing to Adam's creation account doesn't establish that doctrine. It simply changes the subject.
So rather than debating Adam's origin which both traditions affirm return to the actual issue.Where does Scripture explicitly teach two permanent classes of the saved with two permanent eternal destinies?

MaxInDHouse:
What a shame?
So when the Bible EXPLICITLY STATES that humans (Adam and Eve) were created on planet earth your Quran is confused as to where exactly the first humans were created yet you are here questioning the Bible?😂

You have not shown a contradiction. The Qur’an clearly says Adam was created from clay (15:26; 38:71–72). The debate is not about what he was created from, but where the Garden was located. Muslim scholars have held two views: the Garden was either heavenly Paradise or a garden on earth. A difference of interpretation is not a contradiction. The Qur’an never states that Adam was created in Iraq or Mesopotamia. Those are later interpretations, not explicit Qur’anic claims. So asking where the Qur’an says Adam was created actually proves the pointit does not give a specific geographical location.
The real question remains.Even if Adam was created in a heavenly Garden and later descended to earth, how does that prove two permanent classes of saved believers with separate eternal destinations?
Stop deflecting and answer.

MaxInDHouse:
When i told you that your Quran is just one useless and worthless book it may seem as if i was exaggerating things shey?😂

Oya look at where your Quran landed you:





Please where exactly did your Quran say your Allah created Adam and Eve?

Do you now see that you have started disputing with yourself on where Adam and Eve were created?😂

You're assuming more than the Quran explicitly says. Quran 54:54–55 states that the righteous will be in gardens and rivers, near a Sovereign, Perfect in Ability. It does not specifically say this is the same heaven from which Adam was sent down. That conclusion comes from reading multiple texts together. The Quran also makes it clear that earth was part of Allah's plan from the beginning; I will place a khalifah (representative) on the earth (Quran 2:30). That was declared before Adam's creation.
And that's really the point. Adam's story explains humanity's origin and purpose on earth. By itself, it does not establish two permanent classes of saved people with two different eternal destinations. The original question therefore remain where is that doctrine explicitly taught in your Bible?

MaxInDHouse:
This is what is found written in your Quran and heaven wasn't EXPLICITLY STATED
Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says:
اِنَّ الْمُتَّقِيْنَ فِيْ جَنّٰتٍ وَّنَهَرٍ
"Indeed, the righteous will be among gardens and rivers,"
فِيْ مَقْعَدِ صِدْقٍ عِنْدَ مَلِيْكٍ مُّقْتَدِرٍ
"In a seat of honor near a Sovereign, Perfect in Ability"
(QS. Al-Qamar 54: Verse 54-55)

Of course i won't take any other Muslim seriously but you so don't think i will bring in any contrary opinion from other Muslims. Let's use your own interpretation!🙂

Now if your Allah created Adam and Eve on planet earth what led to taking Adam's descendants to heaven?

Did your Allah missed his purpose or humans changed his mind on where they should live forever?🙂

MaxInDHouse:
I don't want all this story just go straight to the point and quote it from your Quran.



Where exactly did your Allah say the righteous will live forever?

Heaven or Earth?😂

Heaven. Surah 54:54-55 and Sahih Al-Bukhari on Al-Firdaus both confirm it explicitly. The Quran says heaven. Your Bible says earth. Revelation 21-22 still awaits your response.

Your explanation actually creates a difficulty for the permanent two-class framework. If John 14:1–3 describes a special arrangement for Christ's co-rulers because of a specific historical circumstance, then the arrangement is tied to that circumstance. A temporary solution to a particular problem is not the same thing as a permanent eternal separation between two classes of believers.
That becomes even more significant when Revelation 21–22 is brought into the picture. The New Jerusalem descends from heaven, God's throne is with humanity, and His servants serve Him there. If Christ's kingdom ultimately centers on earth, then the final biblical vision is one of convergence, not permanent separation.
Ironically, the passages you've cited point strongly toward an earthly resurrection and an earthly future for God's people. When combined with Revelation 21–22, they seem to undermine rather than establish a permanent heaven-versus-earth divide. The Bible's closing picture remains one people under one King; one flock, one shepherd.

MaxInDHouse:
The Bible God never promised anyone heavenly life what He said consistently is a resurrection which will happen on planet earth {John 5:28-29; Act 24:15} and those resurrected will live forever in Paradise on earth if they pass the final test. Psalms 37:9-11,29

Regarding this servants of God always hope to be called back to life on planet earth! Job 14:13-15

It's because the Jews polluted the place where God wanted to use as government house which is Jerusalem {Isaiah 9:7} by killing servants of God and spilling their blood there {Matthew 23:37-38} that Jesus made a promise to his corulers saying he will go and prepare another place for them to stay and rule with him. John 14:1-3

So only Jesus talked about heavenly reward and it's only for his future corulers who are limited in number that is why he needs to go and PREPARE because there was no such arrangement in heaven for that before then!

Please answer those questions by quoting your own Quran with full explanation as i did!🙂

The Quran has already answered that question. Surah 54:54–55 places the righteous in a seat of truth near the Sovereign, and authentic hadith places Al-Firdaus beneath the Throne of Allah. The answer is clear: Paradise is an afterlife, heavenly reward.
So on the location of Paradise between heaven and earth, the Islamic sources already provide a direct answer. The discussion is not unresolved on that point. The texts themselves place the final reward of the righteous with Allah in the Hereafter.

MaxInDHouse:
I said LEAVE THE BIBLE OUT OF THIS FOR NOW SINCE YOU WANT IT TO BE WRITTEN EXPLICITLY.

So answer directly:

Where did your Allah said the righteous will be HEAVEN or EARTH?

Quote it out in your Quran!🙂

How do we not refer to the Bible when the text being reviewed is the Bible?

The Quran describes Paradise as the post-resurrection reward for the righteous, not the present earth as seen in "Gardens beneath which rivers flow…” (Quran 3:133)
“The righteous will be in a seat of truth near a Sovereign, Perfect in Ability.” (Quran 54:54–55) And in authentic hadith (e.g., Sahih al-Bukhari), Al-Firdaus is the highest level of Paradise under the Throne of Allah. So the consistent Quranic framework is afterlife reward with Allah, not earthly residence.
All this still doesn’t answer the original question being discussed.
Revelation 21–22 describes God dwelling with humanity on earth in the final state. The issue remains unchanged about where does the Bible explicitly teach two permanent classes of saved people with two permanent eternal destinations?

MaxInDHouse:
When i said your Quran is useless and worthless it may seem as if i'm speaking against your book. Can you now see that your own Quran can't answer any question regarding the destination of the righteous?

Please state where the righteous will inherit using your Quran. Is it heaven or earth?🙂

I said answer with that your own book (Quran) not quoting the Bible and later questioning the book that made things clear for you.

Oya quote where your Quran explicitly say where the righteous will inherit nah!

Psalm 37:29 actually sharpens the question, not answer it. Yes, the righteous inherit the earth forever. Agreed. But if Psalm 37:29 says the righteous dwell on earth forever, Revelation 21–22 shows God dwelling with humanity on earth, and John 10:16 ends with one flock under one shepherd, then where is the passage that explicitly divides the saved into two permanent classes; one in heaven and one on earth?
Quoting Psalm 37:29 supports an everlasting future on earth. It does not, by itself, establish a separate eternal class living elsewhere. That's still the missing step in the argument.

MaxInDHouse:
Guy the Bible EXPLICITLY say the righteous will inherit the earth and live forever on it! Psalms 37:29

So why is your own Quran confusing all of you so that you can't speak convincingly regarding where righteous people will be permanently?

But here you are questioning the Bible where everything is stated clearly!😂

FxMasterz:
That does not invalidate the fact that Luke and Eusebus were thorough. Peter's vision was relayed throughout Christiendom as at that day. And when you remember that Peter deliberately took other christians along with him to Cornelius' place as witnesses of whatever might happen there, plus the fact that the entire congregation of Acts 15 were all fully aware of the event even before Peter narrated it in that convention, you'll come to understand that there was nothing secret or unknown about the entire episode. You alleged lack of similarity between an actual experience in relation to a general narrative does not invalidate the accuracy of Luke's account, and by extension, Eusebus'.



The bolded is the norm in christiendom. God acts first, then we follow. Christianity is in no way a human institution, neither is it human-led. You can study the entire book of Acts to see this model in full glare. What can be established right now is that Cornelius heard the Gospel through Peter. He believed the Gospel, and God went ahead of everyone to seal him up with the Holy Spirit. The most important lesson here is that, man cannot stand in the way of God for His people. God will bypass you if you are unwilling to carry out His will to the fullest. God bypassed Peter.

We are not far apart, in fact your own words confirm the argument. On Luke and Eusebius the position has never been that the account is inaccurate. The witnesses Peter brought, the Jerusalem church's awareness, Acts 15's familiarity with the episode all strengthen the narrative's credibility. The narrower point remains distinct a well-attested report and the epistemic status of the visionary experience within that report are related but separate questions. Acknowledging that distinction is not denying the account.
On Cornelius your own framing settles it. God acted first. Peter followed. God bypassed Peter rather than waiting for Peter's authorization. That sequence is exactly the principle this thread has been pressing. If God moved ahead of Peter, ahead of baptism, ahead of formal incorporation, and ahead of Jerusalem's expectations, then the decisive factor is God's initiative, not institutional control. Peter did not open a door God was waiting for permission to open. God opened it and Peter was compelled to acknowledge what had already happened.
Your personal testimony of receiving the Holy Spirit on July 6 2000 without any preacher present is consistent with exactly that pattern. God moving independently of institutional sequence is not exceptional in Acts 10. It is the norm you yourself described.
Cornelius is therefore not an exception. He is Scripture's clearest demonstration that no institution however ancient or sincere can legitimately position itself as the necessary gateway through which God must operate. Acts 10 does not merely record history. It establishes permanent theological precedent.

That question cuts both ways. If the standard is an explicit statement, then the burden is not only on me to show where the Quran places Paradise, but also on you to show where your cited passages explicitly place all saved believers in heaven. Descriptions of Paradise and its blessings are not the same as an explicit statement about its final location. More importantly, this is still a side issue. The original claim under debate is that the Bible teaches two permanent classes of believers with two permanent eternal destinations. That is why Revelation 21–22 keeps returning to the center of the discussion. It depicts the New Jerusalem descending from heaven and God dwelling permanently with humanity. Whatever distinctions of role may exist, the passage presents one people of God in God's presence. It does not explicitly describe two eternal classes living forever in separate destinations.
So even if every side discussion is granted for argument's sake, the central question remains unchanged: where does the Bible explicitly teach two permanent classes of saved believers with two permanent eternal destinies? Revelation 21–22 is still part of the biblical picture, and it still has not been directly addressed.

MaxInDHouse:
Where will the Paradise be heaven or earth?🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says:

وَبَشِّرِ الَّذِيْنَ اٰمَنُوْا وَ عَمِلُوا الصّٰلِحٰتِ اَنَّ لَهُمْ جَنّٰتٍ تَجْرِيْ مِنْ تَحْتِهَا الْاَ نْهٰرُ ۗ كُلَّمَا رُزِقُوْا مِنْهَا مِنْ ثَمَرَةٍ رِّزْقًا ۙ قَا لُوْا هٰذَا الَّذِيْ رُزِقْنَا مِنْ قَبْلُ وَاُ تُوْا بِهٖ مُتَشَا بِهًا ۗ وَلَهُمْ فِيْهَاۤ اَزْوَا جٌ مُّطَهَّرَةٌ ۙ وَّهُمْ فِيْهَا خٰلِدُوْنَ
"And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 25)

* Via Qur'an English https://quranapp.id/en

Where will the Paradise garden be?

Please show me where the Quran EXPLICITLY say it will be another earth but not this planet earth because what most Muslim say is that they are going to heaven!🙂

The Quran presents Adam’s story in a clear sequence: We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape; Quran 15:26 shows Adam’s earthly origin. He is then placed in the Garden: O Adam, dwell you and your wife in Paradise…Quran 2:35, followed by“Get down, all of you from it…(Quran 2:38).
This shows a temporary Garden experience followed by life on earth. The Quran then consistently describes Paradise (Jannah) as a reward after resurrection and judgment, not the present earth. So the pattern is: earthly creation → temporary Garden → earthly life → final Paradise in the afterlife.
The Quran places Paradise (Jannah) in the afterlife, not on the present earth. Quran 2:25:Gardens beneath which rivers flow…
Quran 4:57:We shall admit those who believe and do righteous deeds to gardens beneath which rivers flow.
So directly: Paradise is not earth; it is the post-resurrection reward (heaven/afterlife realm).

MaxInDHouse:
Please quote it from your Quran.


Now in your Quran where will the Paradise your Allah promised it's worshipers be?
Heaven or earth?🙂

On transmission, the point about Luke's contemporaries and the early Church's acceptance is well taken. Establishing authorship and general reliability matters. The narrower point is simply that confirming Luke accurately recorded an event is not the same as evaluating the evidential status of a visionary experience within that event. Those are related questions, but they are not identical.
On Cornelius, Acts 10 actually strengthens the point under discussion. God intervened before Peter fully understood what was happening and poured out the Spirit before baptism, before formal incorporation, and before Peter had finished speaking. The sequence matters. Cornelius did not receive the Spirit because Peter authorized it; Peter recognized God's work because Cornelius had already received the Spirit. The institution did not create the reality, it acknowledged a reality God had already established.
So the disagreement is quite narrow. Faith, the Word, and the Spirit are central. The question is whether any human institution determines where God may act. Acts 10 presents God acting first and the institution adjusting afterward.

FxMasterz:
I understand you just want to argue for argument sake. A reported event does jot always have to be done by eyewitnesses to be true. Luke evidentially made extensive research, interviewed eye witnesses and had several eye witnesses who read his books and never disputed his writings. You're arguing as if Luke or Eusebus were the only sources of truth for what they wrote. Just write a book right now and insert unverified claims with a lot of false narratives, let's see if your book would stand. These people had contemporaries who knew better than themselves. The fact that Lukes books were accepted by the early Church is enough proof that it was honest. The fact that Eusebus' claims were not countered by any of his contemporaries is enough proof of their veracity. You can't expect us to jettison the judgement of contemporaries for that or men like you who lived over 2,000 years after the actual events.



What you don't understand is that salvation is spiritual and not mechanical. Faith is the most important factor in salvation. The moment you have faith in the Word that is preached or being preached, that Word will cleanse you and give you a spiritual rebirth. That's why Jesus said "Ye are cleansed through the Word that I have spoken unto you" John 15:3. Cornelius believed everything Peter preached, and was cleansed by that Word. His spirit became born again because of his faith in the Word (John 1:12), and was therefore counted worthy of the Holy Spirit. God had to take that proactive action to baptise them in the Holy Spirit because Peter wouldn't have granted them such a privilege. You can see he was not even planning water baptism for them. He said "Who can forbid these from being baptized, seeing they have received the Holy Spirit just as we". Meaning, we can no longer forbid them since they have even received something much higher. God wanted Cornelius to come in completely into His family. Knowing that Peter would keep him at the door, God took proactive steps that relegated Peter to the background. Cornelius was cleansed and saved through the Word that Peter spoke to him. God had to baptize him in the Holy Spirit because Peter wouldn't do it. His mindset was that God probably wanted gentiles to come a little closer, but God showed him He wanted them all in.

This is not something exclusive to Cornelius. I myself received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit on the 6th of July, 2000 in my room. Nobody preacher or prayed for me. There are several others who have the same testimony.

Adam and Eve were created on earth. That's not in dispute. The problem is that it doesn't address the argument being made.
The question is not where humanity began, but how Scripture describes the final state of God's people. Revelation 21–22 presents that final vision as God dwelling with humanity on earth. So pointing back to Eden does not establish a permanent two-class system with separate eternal destinations. It simply answers a different question. If the two-class framework is correct, it still has to be reconciled with Scripture's closing vision, not its opening chapters.

MaxInDHouse:
Exactly!
So both those rulers going to heaven who will rule over earth and their subjects on planet earth belongs to the same kingdom (government) of God but they are not going to live in the same place!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Do you compare God's word (Bible) with that your useless and worthless book?

Oya answer just few questions using that your book!

Where did God create Adam and Eve?

Heaven or Earth?

Let's see if that your useless Quran is able to answer any question at all!😂

So all Nigerians live inside Aso Rock because they're part of one country? 😂 Really now;
You keep making the analogy work against your own argument. Everyone knows rulers and subjects can belong to the same government without living in the same place.
The Bible also says God's Kingdom will never be handed over to another government in Daniel 2:44, unlike human governments where leaders come and go. So if Christ and his co-rulers are part of that everlasting Kingdom, why would their role be temporary?
And regarding one flock, one shepherd, the verse emphasizes unity under one Shepherd, not that everyone must occupy the same position or location. Unity of purpose doesn't automatically mean identical assignments or destinations.
What's really funny is that you expect every doctrine to be squeezed into a single verse, yet neither the Bible nor the Quran teaches that way. We understand teachings by comparing related passages, not by demanding that every detail be packed into one sentence.

MaxInDHouse:
So all Nigerians stay in one government house in Abuja shey?😂

You keep making this funnier each time you want to argue because we all know that rulers and subjects don't stay in the same place even though they belong to the same nation.

And unlike democratic rule where you have to change them periodically God has said His own system of government will not be passed around to other people {Daniel 2:44} so those who are going to rule with Christ will be with him forever in heaven! 1Thessalonians 4:17

The funny thing is you want everything to be written in just one single verse whereas even your Quran never taught you like that!😂

The government analogy considering your ruling submission actually weakens the point. Rulers and citizens belong to the same nation, under the same jurisdiction, sharing the same common destiny. They are not permanently separated into different realms. The analogy supports unity, not a lasting division.
More importantly, the chain of verses does not explicitly establish what is being claimed. Matthew 19:28 gives a promise to the twelve apostles; it does not identify a 144,000-member ruling class. Revelation 21:14 names the apostles as foundation stones; it does not extend that role to 144,000 co-rulers. Those connections are inferred, not stated.
And that brings us back to John 10:16. If the end result is "one flock, one shepherd," then the burden is to show where the text turns that unity into two permanently separate destinies. The verse itself never does. It ends with one flock. You really need assistance to properly lay out your points if there are any more remaining to make.

MaxInDHouse:
Because the first flock of sheep are lost ones from the house of Israel only {Matthew 10:6} but then there are also humble people in other lands who will like to know the truth about God and submit themselves to pure worship so they will be brought in through the preaching and teaching that the first flock (from Israel) will go and do in all other lands! Matthew 28:19-20


He has mentioned it in his teachings that the first set of sheep from Israel will rule with him {Matthew 19:28} that is why his twelve apostles are the foundation stones of his rulership {Revelation 21:14} but the total number of his corulers is 144,000. Revelation 7:5-8; 14:1


They are one in the sense that they are worshiping the same God under the same ruler: Christ Jesus.
But there destination is not the same place.
You are just arguing blindly because everyone knows that when we talk of a government there must be a government house where the rulers are gathered but that doesn't mean the rulers are not part of the same nation!🙂

The issue isn't clarity; it's consistency. In this thread alone, John 10:16 has been used to argue for separate eternal classes, one organization with two groups, rulers and subjects, and two flocks becoming one. The interpretation keeps changing, but the text does not. jesus says the other sheep will be brought in and the result will be "one flock, one shepherd." He does not mention separate destinies, rulers and subjects, or permanent classes. Those ideas come from the framework, not the verse. If two flocks become one flock, then the text is describing unity, not an eternal division. Maybe your co travellers in this faith can help you articulate your position which keeps changing

MaxInDHouse:
I'm only giving you the clearer picture of what Jesus said in that verse.

There are two sets of disciples one set will rule over the other set that's what makes them two flocks but they will all become one under one leader Jesus.

You keep making it funnier as you want to prove it's not clear whereas the book those Arabs gave you can't be of any use if i want to ask you questions regarding your faith!😂

Very inconsistent! The argument keeps changing while the text stays the same. John 10:16 has been used here to argue for two eternal classes, then one organization containing two classes, and now rulers and subjects within that organization. Yet the verse itself says none of those things. It says one flock, one shepherd doesn't it?
The same issue appears with Matthew 10:6. If Matthew 28:19–20 expands the mission to all nations, then Matthew 10:6 was a temporary restriction, not evidence of a permanent two-tier destiny. And John 14:1–3 says Christ will receive his followers to himself, but it never limits that promise to 144,000 or excludes others from it. Those conclusions are being supplied from elsewhere.
More importantly, for nearly two millennia the dominant reading of John 10:16 has been that the other sheep are Gentiles brought into one people of God alongside Jewish believers. The text explicitly states the outcome is one flock. The burden is on the two-class interpretation to show where the verse teaches rulers and subjects or separate eternal destinies. So far, that language is coming from the framework, not from the verse. Where exactly do you stand?

MaxInDHouse:
The emoji shows how laughable you are with your funny arguments!

Jesus said he is gathering only Jews for the work he wants to assign his disciples {Matthew 10:6} they are to rule with him in heaven {John 14:1-3} but they shouldn't forget other sheep will join them as his disciples {John 10:16} and they will all be in the same organization.

Perhaps it's the word "ORGANIZATION" that's confusing you:

It simply means ORGANIZED PEOPLE even though they are not of the same class there will be rulers as well as subjects in the same organization.🙂

I've read it repeatedly. The issue isn't what the verse says; it's what is being added to it. John 10:16 says one flock, one shepherd.It does not say one organization containing two permanent classes with two eternal destinations. If that meaning were truly obvious from the text, it would be the dominant historical interpretation. Instead, the longstanding mainstream reading is that the other sheep are Gentiles brought into one people of God alongside Jewish believers. .The burden is therefore not on others to reread the verse, but on the two-class interpretation to show where the verse actually says what it is claimed to say. So far, it still says the same thing: one flock, one shepherd

MaxInDHouse:
That is exactly what Jesus is saying you can read it again and again it's not rocket science joo!😂

Your emoji depicts how serious you take your statements.

Now you are asking John 10:16 to do two different jobs. Earlier it was presented as evidence for two distinct classes of believers with different destinies. Now it is being presented as evidence that two groups can exist within one organization. Those are not the same claim. But the verse itself does not discuss organizational structure or separate eternal destinations. It gives the outcom as one flock, one shepherd. The question remains simple where does John 10:16 explicitly say that one group goes permanently to heaven while another remains permanently on earth? It doesn't. The distinction is being supplied from outside the verse, while the verse itself emphasizes unity, not a permanent division into two eternal classes.

MaxInDHouse:
Well go and ask other religions claiming Christians it's only among Jehovah's Witnesses we have members who will go to heaven while the rest in our millions will live forever on planet earth yet we are in one organization. John 10:16
Do you understand that scriptures now? John 10:16🙂

John 10:16 is actually one of the strongest difficulties for the two-class view. Jesus does not say two flocks under one shepherd. He says the result is one flock, one shepherd. How and why you missed that is mysterious. The very verse being cited resolves the distinction into unity.
Matthew 15:24 also cannot carry the weight being placed on it. It describes a temporary stage in Jesus' earthly ministry, not a permanent division of believers. Matthew 28:19–20 explicitly expands the mission to all nations. And while Matthew 5:5 and Psalm 37:29 promise inheritance of the earth, neither says those inheriting the earth are excluded from God's presence. In fact, Revelation 21–22 ends with heaven and earth united, God dwelling with humanity. Scripture's final vision is not two permanently separated peoples, but one redeemed people under one God much like John 10:16 itself says; one flock, one shepherd.

MaxInDHouse:
Both statements protrudes from the mouth of the same person: Jesus.

So he told first century Jewish disciples saying:

“And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd." John 10:16

What he always tell his Jewish disciples is that he has no business with gentiles {Matthew 15:24} and that is because it's his Jewish disciples that must go and preach to gentiles {Matthew 28:19-20} so his first set of disciples are to be chosen as his corulers in heaven while the rest are to enjoy everlasting life on planet earth {Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:29} after all evildoers has been removed from the planet! Psalms 37:7-11; Proverbs 2:20-22