₦airaland Forum

Dtruthspeaker:
I have just shown you both the text and factual connections. Everyone knows that there is no wife in her senses that would ever tell her husband to go and sleep with another woman. Even a 3rd wife will never agree for the husband to marry a 4th wife. So every reasonable person knows that satan moved sarai to cause Ishmael (Muslims) to be born to scatter and pollute God's plan of a holy family and nation.

So satan got sarai to help him get him (satan) his own unholy family that would also have roots in God. This is what I did not want to say in full

“No wife would agree” isn’t a statement from the text; it’s a modern assumption being read into Genesis 16. The passage gives Sarai’s motive as childbearing custom, not Satan. Ishmael’s genealogy traces his descendants, but it doesn’t show that Catholicism doctrinally comes from him. The specific textual link between Sarai’s act and Catholicism still hasn’t been demonstrated.

Eniitankorede:
When they call someone saint, I thought his body is preserved in the grave like we have in Islam. Any dead body eaten up by soil can never be a saint. They are deceiving themselves.

That isn’t quite how Catholic sainthood works. A person isn’t considered a saint simply because their body is preserved, nor does the Catholic Church teach that every saint’s body must remain intact to the best of my knowledge. Canonization concerns the person’s holiness and their relationship with God; relics are a separate matter.

So, a body being consumed by the earth does not, by itself, determine whether someone is a saint. The more relevant question when considering Quran 9:31 is whether venerating religious figures crosses the line into giving them an authority that belongs to God.

Dtruthspeaker:
I think you have it mixed up. In response to me saying that islam and Catholics come from the same person, you responded saying "can the created subject of God the creator spoil the latter's plan?" Which is what I responded to with Satan, Eve, Adam..

So, it means the bold up was what you wanted to ask.

And my reply is that it is known that ALL evil and wrong doing comes from Satan. For textual references.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

Genesis 3:1–4: Details the serpent (Satan), introducing sin to mankind.

And a look at both islam and Catholic's you would see they have a lot of similarities

1) Both use beads for prayers and are inbeded in pagan practices. (Juju)
2) Both are authoritarian, strict and restrict/resist contrary and opposing views.
3) Both restrict individual freedom.
4) Both believe in violently conquering other people's lands which is trespass.
5) both believe in absolute control of their subjects.

All of which violate one Law or the other that He Who is Good and God had Commanded that they should not be done.

And all of these same things were done by the pagans of old

These are just a few mild personal observations of my own and this guy pointed out more in his thread. https://www.nairaland.com/988029/similarities-islam-catholicism#11405455

So, these are my textual and real eyeity based reasons for my comment.

Perhaps, I understand your clarification somewhat better. I was specifically asking whether Satan, Eve, Adam, and Israel could spoil or frustrate God’s plan, so your examples were directly addressing that question.

However, that still leaves the separate claim that Catholicism and Islam come from the same person who caused Sarai to spoil God’s plan needing to be demonstrated. The five similarities you listed may support an argument that there are parallels, but similarities alone do not establish a common origin. To establish that claim, you would need to show the specific textual connection between Sarai, Catholicism, and Islam.

Mubiola360:
Quran 9:31 (Surah At-Tawbah) states: "They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah, and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him."

Exactly. That quote of the verse is my point. 9:31 condemns treating scholars, monks, or the Messiah as objects of worship or as having divine authority alongside Allah.

MICHEALADEX:
Don't be foolish

Genesis 6:6-7 states that God regretted making humans on Earth and felt deep grief in his heart because the world was full of evil and violence. This led to the decision to send the flood, while sparing Noah and his family.

Genesis 6:6 describes divine grief, not God’s plan being defeated. In Islam, human disobedience never overcomes Allah’s will; 9:31 addresses religious authority, not God losing control.

nairalanda1:
So do the catholics...they say the same thing about their religion too.

Do Catholics face one direction in prayer? That's new to me. Where exactly do they face? Then is there a way 'the catholic reverred figure of mother of God or saints' can be destroyed afresh after their death?

Dtruthspeaker:
You were the one who raised your Quran 9:31 in saying whether "can the created subject of God the creator spoil the latter's plan?" So, i do not know what your Quran says but definitely that question can be answered even without the Quran.

And since the Quran is technically built from the Bible, then you ought to have no issue with me calling on Satan, Eve, Adam and Isreal for they are indisputably settled.

Neither have I stopped you from citing your Quran 9:31 to back your point for us all to see whether it truly validly and reasonably stands

Perhaps you should review our conversation.
You’re shifting the question. Quran 9:31 isn’t asking whether humans can spoil God’s plan; it condemns treating religious authorities as having God’s authority. Then if you claim Islam and Catholicism come from the same source because of Sarai, then show the actual textual basis. Saying Satan, Eve, Adam, Israel, or Sarai prove it doesn’t establish that conclusion.

nairalanda1:
Okay, so if it gets wrecked, or destroyed, all is good then, no need to worry then, eh?

Plus why do you have to bow down in its direction, eh?

Apparently you have this mixed up. Its destruction would not harm Allah or Islam; the Stone is not divine. Facing the Kaaba unifies prayer direction. Muslims worship Allah alone, not the building or a stone associated with it.

Dtruthspeaker:
I don't know Quran. I know the Bible and real eyeity and in the Bible, Eve, Adam, Isreal did not claim to be like God. It is God Who Said that He was going to make us to be like Him. And man's living has confirmed that a human being is not a robot.

Yet you answered sure to me asking if you grasped what Quran 9:31 says. How do you choose to stand when you can easily have even searched what it was if you actually don't know. Obviously we are not having a meaningful conversation if you choose to just flippantly answer. Where did God say he will make us (I believe you refer to mankind) like him? Is that your yardstick of differentiation from a robot? The bestowing of free will?

nairalanda1:
Sounds like what the catholics do with relics. Infact a catholic told me word for word the same thing you are saying, only they were talking about their saints and Mary.

Exactly. The key difference is invocation. Catholics may ask Mary or saints to intercede, whereas Muslims neither pray to the Black Stone nor ask anything of it. Kissing it is an act of Sunnah, not worship.

Hope you know better now.

abidem4real:
Abeg! What's the difference between the administration of both religions? They are both a scam - a menace to peaceful co-existence of humans.
One should just serve whoever or whatever he believes in the best way he can.

If by administration you mean religious leadership, note that Islam has no Catholic-style central hierarchy or pope. Scholars interpret and teach; they do not mediate salvation. Calling both religions a scam is a verdict, not an argument you can justify. Disagree with beliefs, but distinguish doctrine from its misuse.

nairalanda1:
Ha, just like the Catholics then who regard those things they are holding as sacred objects too. Thanks.

The difference is simple as in Islam Muslims do not worship the Black Stone. We honour it as a relic associated with Ibrahim’s House, while worship belongs to Allah alone. Comparing reverence for an object with worship is precisely the error you make here.

nairalanda1:
You guys that venerate a meteorite that apparently is sacred because it fell from heaven or something?

Mocking a sacred symbol isn’t an argument. Quran 9:31 actually warns against elevating religious authorities beyond or equal to God.

Please share the translation of the meaning of Quran 9:31, so we discuss it.
Specifically the characters you name claiming to be like God are definitely not God or able to do what the almighty does.

Dtruthspeaker:
Sure. That is what it means to be like God. Satan, Eve, Adam, Israel etc prove that. A human being is not a robot.

Dtruthspeaker:
Catholicism and islam come from the same person who caused Sarai to spoil God's Plan

Truthfully, do you grasp what Quran 9:31 says then seriously can the created subject of God the creator spoil the latter's plan?

Isn't this close to the veneration spoken of in Quran 9:31?

As the wheels of time roll the truth reveals discernably more clear.

Endinjustice:
Nigeria was doing relatively well with so much growth and development potentials in all sectors until tunubu and his evil party came and destroyed everything with reckless abandon.

I like the comparative praise you include late Gen. Buhari in. Could you list some of these growth and development potential changes between the last of the general and Tinubu please?

eejo:
cbn allow naira to fall then let nigerians start buying made in nigeria goods period

Are Nigerians ready to buy truly Nigerian made goods branded same? Not goods made to look like Nigeria made as the true project owners are foreign exploiting the market size

eejo:
Nigerians are suffering at the moment and public services are not working properly. Youth unemployment is at the Highest level and Nigerians overseas are coming under heavy anti migrants campaign. Nigeria must rise to prevent Africans going back into slavery. Am unveiling my movement in Abuja in ceremony soon. For my Nairaland followers my organisation will need representatives from all the local government of the federation. My five points agenda are as follows
Community civilian JTF with official vehicle in every community all over the country

Free Education for primary to University level

Free Health care services for all Nigerians through NHIS

Transfer of Technology to our population to build our industries

Make Nigeria the next World power after China rise.
We will make this a reality and finally wipe the tears of our Ancestors who suffered untold hardship defending our lands from invaders.

Quite commendable and lofty ideas. You may relook at the free education because to some degree a fair number of Nigerians are academically educated but there's the disconnect between transferring this knowledge to good practice. Bare in mind that education is most useful where it translates to good visible use. I have seen quite some persons that are commendable in practice even when they don't know the reason or science behind what they are doing. Let's learn from a time where many industries existed eager to take up graduates even from teacher training and technical institutions unlike what is now seen with more supposedly educated graduates with few industries to engage.

It should go a long way if more people could read, write and keep records of goods, services and transactions. There's huge pool of jobs and services in the not too highly educated space besides learning ideally never fully stops. Imagine amassing groups of people including experts with a given goal to develop a region with target production ends. This should spread into storage, semi and full processing to various degrees. The number of more idle hands has encouraged insurgency some of which encouraged by frustration but no excuse for bad character.

RUWACH:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvoGTp3T-a0

Perhaps for an investigative security record a completely non-invasive postmortem examinations could be done. This preserves the body and includes tests such as an external examination, CT and MRI scans, X-rays, ultrasound, photography, and 3D imaging. Together, these methods form a virtual autopsy (virtopsy), which can identify many injuries and diseases without dissection. Needle biopsies and fluid sampling are considered minimally invasive.

Mrexcell:
Am talking about the mega infrastructures that the federal govt built in lagos with nigeria's common wealth and not the monthly allocations there's no oil producing state that u will find infrastructures like the third mainland bridge and the murthala muhammed international airport.

Those projects were built when Lagos was the nation's capital and were funded from the federal purse as national assets, not from state allocations. That historical context is important. At the same time, recent fiscal trends and federal investment patterns show Lagos continues to receive significant attention. The aviation minister has also stated that revenue from airports like Lagos, Abuja, and Kano supports smaller airports, reflecting a deliberate policy that channels major investment toward high-traffic hubs.

Mrexcell:
Yes other states do also collect federal monthly allocations but can't be compared to what lagos has received due to it's former status as nigeria's capital, some of the states in the niger delta where the resources are coming from are even heavily cheated by the nigerian state that only gives them 13% of the proceeds of their God given oil and gas resources while the rest 87% is used to develop places like lagos and abuja, only an ingrate will completely dismiss federal govt massive contributions in the infrastructural development of lagos state.

Even if at just 13% derivation the question to ask is how the benefitting states have utilised these specific earnings.
Lagos state is one of the least dependent on federal allocations as its funds itself overwhelmingly from IGR being a commercial hub.

Really though how does Margaret Obi dancing at an event tramslate to political news. Is this a political event or random other social gathering.

It is wrong to treat apostasy, hypocrisy, and wartime treachery as the same. They are distinct categories. Qur'an 9:73–74 addresses hostile hypocrites plotting against the Muslim community, not everyone who leaves Islam. Qur'an 4:89 must be read with 4:90, which exempts those who withdraw and seek peace, showing the context is armed hostility. Qur'an 88:21–24 states that the Prophet is only a warner, while Allah administers the ultimate punishment. The hadith is where the legal debate begins as it has been understood in the context of apostasy coupled with rebellion and political betrayal, not merely a private change of belief.

Whatever the case it is good for the victims and the country that they are now free from ransom detention. Then the unassociated divergence to PO isn't whether Peter Obi is a Forbes billionaire or whether the Pandora Papers proved theft; they didn't.
The questions are about disclosure and public office. Obi became governor in March 2006 but resigned his UK company directorship only in May 2008, around 14 months after the period required under the Code of Conduct. Gabriella Investments was incorporated in 2010, several years into his governorship, so it wasn't established before he assumed public office. Does this raise questions about his preferred fringe public earnings?
Legally, the concern is about asset declaration and compliance with the Code of Conduct, not proven embezzlement or theft. No court has convicted him, and no corruption charge has been sustained against him. Ethically, however, undisclosed offshore structures and delayed compliance sit uneasily with a public image built on transparency and good governance, even if the underlying funds were lawfully acquired. His wealth itself is not implausible given his business career before politics. And describing him as a billionaire usually relies on converting an estimated dollar net worth into naira rather than placing him among the world's billionaire class.

Simply stating you said nothing or blaming AI isn't an argument. If you think the point is wrong, identify the factual error or flaw in the reasoning instead of criticizing the assumed source.

Stephen0mozzy:
In the end, you said.... NOTHING.

shortgun:
The prompt must have been trashy for your AI to generate this much garbage

spiSeyi:
Read the bolded again and listen to yourself
You just shot yourself the foot what's modern technology and what's Western education? Where in the Quran is AI mentioned or don't you know that AI , drones even the communication gadeti they use and anything technology is a product of research and development from the byproduct of Western Education. Anyone who is using any form of modern day technology is operating under the context of Western Education

You're conflating technology with the philosophy behind its development. AI, drones, and smartphones are products of scientific research, but using them doesn't mean accepting the entire educational or ideological framework from which they emerged. By that logic, anyone who wears factory-made clothes, uses household appliances, drives a car, or flies in an airplane has adopted Western education as a worldview. Using a product isn't the same as embracing the philosophy of its makers. That's the distinction I am making.

Amotolongbo:
Western Education and Knowledge is sacrilegious but they could utilise it to execute their aim and believe.
Why didn’t they use their quran verses and hadiths which they believe in to build AI or execute their plan?

It’s all about politics of stealing people’s land

Boko Haram was never opposed to knowledge itself. Its ideology rejected Nigeria's secular political and educational order, not every useful technology. Like many extremist groups, it pragmatically uses modern tools including AI, encrypted communications, and social media whenever they advance its objectives. Using technology does not imply acceptance of the educational or political philosophy from which it emerged; it reflects a willingness to use any available means to pursue ideological ends.

Boko Haram cannot be adequately explained by any single factor. The movement was driven by a fringe Salafi-jihadist ideology rejected by mainstream Muslim scholars. Conditions in parts of northeastern Nigeria such as poverty, youth unemployment, corruption, weak institutions, and poor governance created opportunities for recruitment, but similar challenges have existed elsewhere in Nigeria without producing an equivalent insurgency. Likewise, ideology alone cannot explain why the movement emerged when and where it did. Its rise resulted from the interaction of extremist ideology, local socio-economic conditions, influential leadership, and the state's response especially the 2009 crackdown which transformed it into a sustained violent insurgency.

PlasmaTV:
I thought boko haram are against education. Why, then, are they using AI?

Bunch of jokers. Death to all terrorists!

spiSeyi:
Western Education is haram in the mud , another flimsy excuse for the clueless guy in Aso rock and defense ministry . AI or no AI this guys have a network of highly connected scientists and engineers who works for the Taliban. But the main worry here is how LLM like CHATGPT is been used to police the world. This post should be an eye opener for all

Stephen0mozzy:
Well, isn't that the definition of Hypocrisy?
But then again, can we expect any form of morality from a sect that's morally bankrupt.

shortgun:
They are using Western education knowledge to fight against western education.
Very senseless beings

Good you put up many verses. Let's read and review what they say. The biblical passages you have cited are:
Psalm 37:29 — The righteous will possess the earth, and they will live forever on it. This establishes the righteous inheriting the earth. It does not mention a second class of saved believers with a separate heavenly destination.

John 14:1–3 — Jesus says he goes to prepare a place and will return to receive his followers.
This speaks about Jesus receiving his followers, but it does not explicitly state that this creates a permanent class of exactly 144,000 who are eternally separate from other believers.

Revelation 14:1 — the 144,000 are shown with the Lamb.
The passage identifies the group, but it does not explicitly say that they alone go to heaven while all other saved believers are permanently excluded.

Revelation 7:9 — an uncountable multitude appears before God.
It identifies a multitude, but it does not state that this group has a separate eternal destination from the 144,000.

Revelation 20:5–6 — speaks of a thousand-year reign.
A thousand-year period is a defined timeframe, not by itself proof of two permanent eternal classes.

Zephaniah 2:2–3 — calls people to seek righteousness and humility.
It gives a moral instruction, not a division of the saved into two eternal categories.

Everything else added around these verses presented as ideas about a specific heavenly class, earthly subjects, false religion, or a complete framework is interpretation and theology built around the texts. It will be most remarkable if you left out the core direct verse or verses.
The question is not whether interpretation exists; it does. The question is whether the verses themselves explicitly state the two-class system being claimed.
You've claimed on this forum to have once been Muslim, and your own words distinguish being born into error from knowingly remaining in it. If that claimed background is real, it should show in argument with substance beyond what anyone could find with a search and so far nothing here has demonstrated that. The requested verse still has not been produced: one clear passage stating that saved believers are permanently divided into two eternal groups with separate destinations.

MaxInDHouse:
When you are born into a false religion it's not your fault the same happened to billions of people across the world but when you discover yet stubbornly stick to it then it's no longer someone's else fault but your's.
The purpose of life is not to live for some time on planet earth and later go to heaven that's the teachings of false traditional religions throughout the world. God never created Adam and Eve in heaven they were created here on earth so earth is their permanent abode rebellion led to their death therefore when God promised to forgive their descendants He added that they will live forever on planet earth which is the place He created for that purpose. Psalms 37:29
The issue that led to all these problems is sovereignty or who's right it is to set standards God or human so God allowed humans to do that for thousands of years to prove that they can't succeed doing so while He is making arrangements for His only begotten Son and those who are trained by His Son to rule for a thousand years {Revelation 20:5-6} then obedient mankind could become perfect under that condition.
Jesus promised his future corulers that he is going to prepare a government house for them in heaven. John 14:1-3
Therefore those going to heaven with Jesus will be numbered {Revelation 14:1} unlike their earthly subjects who can't be counted! Revelation 7:9
Nobody will force this truth on you with weapons it's a free gift for those who are humbly seeking the righteousness of God! Zephaniah 2:2-3
Farewell and may you have peace!🙂

What the verse directly says. That can't be so hard or is it?

MaxInDHouse:
Verses you demand to be written in your own way shey?😂

Still no verse!

MaxInDHouse:
That is where your answer is!🙂

If you don't know where God purposed for humans to live till eternity then you can't understand why the Bible speaks of two destinations. So first figure out where God created for humans to live we can then progress to what kind of life there is in heaven!🙂

Terribly poor substitute for a verse. Bring the verse for 2 classes of saved people

MaxInDHouse:
Where did God purpose for humans to live forever?
Heaven or Earth?

The Bible verse in support of your 2 class claim of saved people.

MaxInDHouse:
For what?🙂