₦airaland Forum

IslamVIRGINS:
Is there anyone caught in criminal act of sleeping and having sex with a 9year old girl in this period?

Are you for real? Do you deny reports of present time abuse of this nature? I am simply pointing you to the truth that the age restriction of regarding females under 10 didn't come before 1885. That the law exists doesn't mean it is strictly obeyed.

Do you deny the truth that some girls begin the onset of puberty at this age? Over half of girls worldwide experience the onset of puberty at ages as early as 7 or 8.

IslamVIRGINS:
Are you trying to justify the pedophile fake prophet of yours?

There's no need to justify anything. Check the lowest age of females at marriage. The fact that society has reviewed certain standards doesn't mean there are no outliers.

[/quote]

IslamVIRGINS:
What is this pedophile follower's saying??

See the age of Consent for females in Delware in the 19th century.

That isn t terribly long ago.
Historically, the age of consent has been much lower than it is today. In some American jurisdictions in 1899, for instance, it was as low as 9 years old.

Consider the number of times the temple of Jehovah was taken over idolatry.
idol worship overtook the temple through a combination of leadership failures, societal pressures from surrounding nations, and a gradual erosion of faithfulness among God’s people.

Is it so difficult to appreciate that at some point idolatry overshadowed monotheist worship in the Kaaba before prophet Muhammad pbuh corrected this?

TV01:
Thanks for your response.

None of this addresses the outworking of mutah and misyar as widely practiced in Islam today. Or the fact that they are both thinly-veiled means to sanctify illicit sex.

As stated, it informs my thinking that Islam has no objective morality, only the halal\haram notion'


TV

However you define and understand is your entitlement.

Temporal or arranged marriages is part of human existence from history to date despite what is commanded against it. It is one of many points of mankind's arrogance at temporal gain or pleasure.

Sahih Muslim 1406 h
Rabi' b. Sabra reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle pbuh prohibited the contracting of temporary marriage.

That some will twist and misinterprete the directives is not in any way strange, alas! At the end everyone will know and be rewarded

[/quote]

IslamVIRGINS:
What is this pedophile follower's saying??

See the age of Consent for females in Delware in the 19th century.

That isn t terribly long ago.
Historically, the age of consent has been much lower than it is today. In some American jurisdictions in 1899, for instance, it was as low as 9 years old.

TV01:
The verse below refutes most of your claims. Claiming "gender-neutrality" as posited, would actually suggests that same-sex marriage is a thing in Islam. Most mainstream Muslims would consider this heretical.

As for the point about "abolition of slavery in Islam", that is ahistorical at best. Saudi Arabia reluctantly ended slavery in the early 1960's forced by the British. Slavery is still extant in parts of the Muslim world. And please, spare me the the "society not religion" trope.

It's hard to see this response as anything more than an attempt to massage or whitewash the true meaning and intent contained within the Islamic scriptures. There is no true sense of classic vs. contemporary positions in Islam. Certainly not in it's mainstream beliefs and outworking.

Understand the desire to present the religion in the best light possible. I find most presentations of Islam are based on unfounded assertions and trumped up claims. The Koran, hadiths and narratives often contradict, with great effort spent to explain the differences.

بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
١ قَدْ أَفْلَحَ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ1 Successful indeed are the believers
٢ الَّذِينَ هُمْ فِي صَلَاتِهِمْ خَاشِعُونَ2 Who are humble in their prayers,
٣ وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ عَنِ اللَّغْوِ مُعْرِضُونَ3 And who shun vain conversation,
٤ وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ لِلزَّكَاةِ فَاعِلُونَ4 And who are payers of the poor-due;
٥ وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ لِفُرُوجِهِمْ حَافِظُونَ5 And who guard their modesty -
٦ إِلَّا عَلَىٰ أَزْوَاجِهِمْ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ غَيْرُ مَلُومِينَ6 Save from their wives or the (slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are not blameworthy,
٧ فَمَنِ ابْتَغَىٰ وَرَاءَ ذَٰلِكَ فَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْعَادُونَ7 But whoso craveth beyond that, such are transgressors -

TV

Would you say the verse refers exclusively to males?

In classical Arabic, the masculine plural is used to refer to groups that may include men and women. This is a common grammatical feature in the language and does not mean gender identification unless this is clarified by context.


Saudi Arabia is the custodian of the two holy mosques in Makkah and Madinah, Saudi Arabia holds a vital position in supporting Hajj and Umrah while also safeguarding Islamic heritage. Nonetheless, the country's socio-political choices, modernization initiatives, and interpretations of Islamic law are shaped by its distinct historical and cultural background, rather than serving as a definitive representation of Islam.

There is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab, nor a non-Arab over an Arab, nor of a white person over a black person, nor of a black person over a white person, except by taqwa (piety)." (Musnad Ahmad, Hadith 23489)

Quran 49:13 O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted

The best of you are those who are best in character" (Sunan At-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1162).

TV01:
This may not be definitive, but a starting point - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misyar_marriage - one thing is clear, it is still much debated and nowhere close to being settled in the Islamic world. Happy to be enlightened further.


Is Islam not valid for all peoples, everywhere for all times? As misyar is practised in the present day, slavery does not appear to be a driver, or even in view in any meaningful way.


Concubines aka sex slaves? If these temporary arrangements are "temporary in application", why are they still extant in various guises and the subject of much debate to this day?


Noted for discussion purposes, but without backing, assertions at best. Further, this does not present an "objective morality", or show that both these practices and derivatives are anything more than "slip roads" make sex available.
TV

Do a lot better than Wikipedia.

Islam is real and practical. At the time of Prophet Muhammad pbuh an effective means of correcting social ills is seen. It wasn't draconian. Consider the stages to forbidding consumption of alcohol as an example.

The term sex slave implies coercion and abuse, which is categorically forbidden in Islam. Captives who made up those whom the right hand posses often became integrated into families, were treated with kindness, and were eventually freed.

Those whom your right hands possess in Islam was a regulated system meant to provide rights and dignity to captives, not to exploit them. It was a significant step in reforming pre-Islamic practices and ultimately led to the abolition of slavery within Islamic societies.

Ma Malakat Aimanukum should be understood within its linguistic context as encompassing various forms of relationships and possessions rather than being narrowly defined as referring only to female slaves. It
is gender-neutral and can refer to both male and female captives.

It can be understood as referring to individuals who are under one’s rightful possession or care. While classical interpretations have leaned towards slavery, contemporary scholars argue that this should be viewed through a lens of marital contracts rather than ownership in the traditional sense.

Lisan-ul-Arab by Ibn-Manzoor Vol. 13 also details this phrase to mean to marry.

TV01:
Really? How? In outcome they both make sex available - primarily to men, where it should be forbidden.


Hadith are not revelation. In round terms barely 1% of the written hadith are accepted, and even these are not universally agreed - within or between sects. They are typically deployed as a convenience or denied as suits. I find the whole notion of "hadith science" questionable at best.

And note the hadith quoted. [s]Allowed in the past, forbidden then, but to be re-introduced later - not objectively moral[/s].


TV

Please learn more about the Misyar you brought up.

This was tied to the socio-economic structure of slavery in historical societies.

Surah Al-Mu’minun (23:5-7) and Surah Al-Ma’arij (70:29-31) highlight that sexual relations are only allowed within the framework of a permanent marriage or with those whom your right hands possess. Those whom the right hand posses refer to concubines in that historical context. Temporary arrangements such as Mut'ah are not included in this allowance.

Relations with those referred to as whom the right hand posses were not time-bound. The relationship was not temporary like Mut'ah but part of the larger context of slavery, with provisions for eventual emancipation.

UncleAyo:
Here are examples of mentioning of idols in the quran.

1. Surah An-Najm (53:19-20)

The Quran mentions three among prominent idols of pre-Islamic Arabia:

"So have you considered Al-Lat and Al-‘Uzza? And Manat, the third—the other one?"
(Surah An-Najm, 53:19-20)

Al-Lat, Al-‘Uzza, and Manat

2. Surah Nuh (71:23)

"And they said, 'Never leave your gods and never leave Wadd or Suwa' or Yaghuth and Ya'uq and Nasr.'"
(Surah Nuh, 71:23)

Wadd, Suwa', Yaghuth, Ya'uq, Nasr.

You referenced 9 and present 8.

Particularly Wadd, Suwa', Yaghuth, Ya'uq, Nasr are mentioned in reference to the people of Noah.
Were they in Mecca?
Is there convincing proof that these idols were amongst those in the Kaaba?

UncleAyo:
Except you've not been taught by your quranic teachers that Muhammed (while still young), his father, his grandfather and his Quraysh tirbe (among other beduoin tribes) were 100% paganist and idolator or you're just trying taqqiyah on me whether it will work. Now go back and read what you wrote slowly and logically with the new info that they are %100 paganists and idolators.

Indeed most of the Quraish tribe before prophet Muhammad were polytheists, worshiping multiple idols and associating partners with Allah, some individuals among them held different beliefs or practices.

There were notable exceptions, such as the Hanifs and those influenced by Christianity or Judaism.

UncleAyo:
Infact, Illah is what the Arabic call God and not Allah. Allah was one of the diety been worshiped before the invention of Islam. That is why muslims will say something like "la ilah ila huwa" meaning Allah is one Illah (God).

Arabic has a general term for God, "Ilah", Muslims specifically use "Allah" to refer to the Creator of the heavens and the earth. The name "Allah" embodies all the perfect attributes and qualities of God as outlined in the Quran.

In Islam, Allah is the specific name for God used solely to denote the one true deity deserving of worship. Unlike a generic term for God, Allah uniquely identifies the Supreme Being in Islam.

UncleAyo:
Islam Is Idolatry And Paganism?

Historians like Vaqqidi have said. Allah was actually the chief of the 360 gods being worshipped in Arabia at the time Mohammed rose to prominence. Ibn Al-Kalbi gave twenty-seven names of pre-Islamic deities. From the Qur’an itself, we can name up to nine of these idols. The Ka’bah, housing many of these gods, has remained the temple of Allah and which Muslims revere and go to worship and kiss in the Mecca during the Hajj. It is significant to remind ourselves that even if a Muslim is not in Mecca, he has to face the direction of this shrine, Ka’bah, while praying every time. History says pagans in Arabia had been visiting Ka’bah on pilgrimage centuries before Islam started at all. Foreign merchants and Arabs faced the Ka’bah in prayer because that was where most of their gods were deposited. Many of the gods were brought by these merchants from their countries.

Interestingly, Muslims want to accept that Mecca was already being worshipped at this Ka’bah shrine in Mecca by Arabs and pagans before Mohammed came. They do not want to accept the fact that even the ways hajj was being performed in those days by the pagans: the shaving of hair, the running around the Ka’bah, the kissing of the black stone, the sacrifices, etc.

Some Muslims get flared up when they are confronted with these facts. But history is not on their side. Pre-Islamic
literature has prove this. In the Quran itself, we see that pre-Islamic pagan Arabs made their strongest oaths in the name
of Allah because they believed he was the most powerful of their gods (Surah 6:109), He was already regarded by the pagans as the creator, the lord of the shrine, the lord of Ka'bah, and the territorial god of the city of Mecca. Ka'bah was also known as "baithu'llah" ("house of allah". All other idol shrines in other regions in Arabia were also called "baitullah'. Mohammed said he had been called to worship "the Lord of this house (that is the shrine of Ka'bah)" (Surah 106:3; 27:91; 6:109). In that Surah 27:91, Allah was called "the Lord of this city (Mecca)". That means he was a territorial god. That is the reason for the pilgrimage, and the reason why every Muslim must face the direction of Mecca while praying. If he faces elsewhere he knows he is not facing Allah.

Apart from Allah, other major deities being worshipped by these pagans of Mecca are Al-lat or Allat (which is the Islamic goddesses, the feminine form of the word "allah". The other female idols being worshipped at the time are al-Uzzra and al-Manat (Surah 53:19-20), and they were all being worshipped inside the Ka'bah. According to Al-Tabari, the gharaaniq (female idols) were even regarded as daughters of Allah. Other popular idols were Wadd, Suwa, Yaguth, Ya'uq, Nasr, and Hubal which Muhammad's wife, Khadijah, too sacrificed to and worshipped because her sons to Mohammed were dying young (Surah 17:23; See also the book, The Life of Muhammad by Egyptian Islamic scholar, Mohammed Haykal (p.69).

One other proof that Allah was already being worshipped as an idol in Arabia is the fact that Mohammed's father was called Abdallah or Abdullah, meaning "the servant or slave of Allah", and yet he wasn't a Muslim! He was an idol worshipper, and was named after that idol.

Some have taken this to mean that Allah must therefore be almighty God. But What this can only prove is that Allah was alread known in Arabia to be a supernatural being. It is NOT a proof that he is God Almighty


TO BE CONTINUED

____________________________________
Book reverence: Who Is This Allah?
_____________________________________

Also, previous Threads:
1. Mut'ah: A Divine Prostitution
2. Kaaba Of The Bedouin Tribes

I wonder if you are seeking peer review or poking fun.

Did you substantiate that 9 Idols are mentioned in the Quran or blindly copy to paste?

Al-Waqidi’s works focus more on the Sirah (biographies of Muhammad) and early Islamic conquests rather than on pre-Islamic theology.

Waqidi does not explicitly state that Allah was one of the 360 idols in the Kaaba, as one might envision the physical statues and idols worshipped by pre-Islamic Arabs. Instead, he implies that Allah was among the deities revered by the polytheistic Arabs, but not in the same manner as idols like Hubal, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, or Manat.

While Al-Waqidi's writings mainly concentrate on early Islamic history, they have faced criticism regarding their reliability. Some of his narratives may be shaped by later theological views or misinterpretations. There is no clear and widely accepted assertion from Al-Waqidi that Allah was an idol; such a statement would contradict the core monotheistic message of Islam which denounce idol worship and promote belief in the One God.

The claims that Al-Waqidi suggested Allah was just another idol among many, must be a misunderstanding or oversimplifying his work.

Waqqidi acknowledges Allah as a major deity within a wider polytheistic context, without equating Him to lesser idols. He highlights Allah’s importance as a primary deity worshipped by certain tribes, especially the Quraysh. He points out that although many idols were honored in Mecca, Allah was distinct as the creator and sustainer.

His writings illustrate how various tribes honored different idols, while also noting that some people called upon Allah for particular needs or in times of distress. This reflects a nuanced relationship between monotheistic beliefs and polytheistic practices.

TV01:
Mutah is practiced mostly by the Shia sect. Although widely condemned by the majority Sunni' faction, they practice something similar called misyar. Is there evidence for "abrogation"?


TV

Misyar however it's seen is clearly different from Mutah.

Ali reported that Allah's Messenger pbuh forbade Mut'ah and the eating of the flesh of domestic donkeys on the day of Khaybar."
(Sahih Muslim, Hadith 1407)

The Messenger of Allah pbuh said: 'O people! I had permitted you to contract temporary marriage with women. But Allah has forbidden it until the Day of Resurrection. So, anyone who has such a woman in his possession, he should let her go, and do not take anything of what you have given them.'"
(Sahih Muslim, Hadith 1406)

UncleAyo:
In Summary: The thread discusses Mut'ah marriage, a temporary union in Islamic tradition allowing a man to marry a woman for a specified period in exchange for money, without formalities like witnesses or registration. Historically practiced in pre-Islamic Arabia, it was later permitted by Prophet Muhammad, as referenced in Islamic texts and supported by some scholars using Surah 4:24. Critics argue that Mut'ah complicates Islamic laws on adultery and prostitution, undermines Sharia, and contradicts even Biblical moral teachings, raising questions about its divine approval. The practice remains controversial and widely debated within and outside the Muslim world.

Glad you started with the truth but diverted in later discussion.

Mut'ah did predate Islam and was initially permitted, it was ultimately prohibited by the Prophet Muhammad pbuh as part of the comprehensive reform of pre-Islamic practices.

istamtaʿtum in the verse 4:24 is often understood as referring to the lawful enjoyment of marital relations not temporal marriage

The journey of the Israelites from Egypt to the Promised Land, as described in the Hebrew Bible, features several notable instances of idolatry.

The spread of idol worship from Israel to areas such as Syria and Yemen can be linked to trade routes and military conquests. As the Israelites engaged with neighboring nations through trade or conflict, they exchanged cultural practices, including religious beliefs. For example, the worship of Baal gained popularity in both Israel and its neighboring regions due to its allure as a fertility deity.

Amr ibn Luhay is credited with bringing idolatry from Syria to Arabia.
According to traditional accounts, he journeyed to the Levant, where he encountered idol worship among the local inhabitants.

Prior to the rise of idolatry, many tribes in Arabia adhered to a form of monotheism that can be traced back to the teachings of the prophets Ibrahim (Abraham) and Ismail (Ishmael).

Isn't Israel key to idolatry?

Hubal was a Moabite deity imported into Mecca.

In ancient Near Eastern cultures, it was common for people to bow or prostrate themselves before kings or deities as a gesture of respect and submission.

Bowing serves as a physical gesture that conveys submission, reverence, and worship. In the ancient Near Eastern cultures, including that of the Israelites, bowing was a widely accepted way to show respect to gods or figures of authority.

Moses: In Exodus 34:8, after receiving God’s commandments, Moses immediately bows down to the ground in worship.

David: In 1 Chronicles 29:20, David instructs the entire assembly to bless the Lord their God, prompting them to bow down and prostrate themselves before Him.

Solomon: During the temple dedication in 2 Chronicles 7:3, Solomon guides the people in bowing their heads and prostrating themselves before the Lord.

In Exodus 20:5–6, God instructs His people not to bow down to other gods but to serve Him exclusively.

This provides a strong warning against idolatry, emphasizing that bowing should be reserved for worship and loyalty to Yahweh alone.

Should there be any problem if reference is made to any part of the Bible that carries a theme emphasizing the supremacy of the almighty God above all?

MaxInDHouse:
This is a lie!

That's why you can't find it in any scriptures of the Hebrews where they are praying for dead people because it's the works they did while they are alive that will continue to be their lot afterwards, it's paganism that allows praying for dead people because they don't know what their gods could do about the dead.
If someone has been blessed by the Almighty God neither your prayer or curse can have any impact in the judgement of such a person.
You see this is the reason i found it really difficult to wrap that religion over my head because it makes no practical sense!

You say Muhammad has been blessed but there is no proof, he died through poisoning, all his children were killed in his life time, his followers later began fighting and killing one another after his death.
Please which of all these proves this Arab man had God's blessing?

You're free to close your eyes to the truth but you can't compel right thinking individuals to join you in your delusion there is nothing to write home about that man or his god.

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob declared that this people are blessed that's why the whole world including those Arabs wants to relate with them by force!

Peak of hypocrisy.

MaxInDHouse:
Please i will love short and straightforward answers

MaxInDHouse:
Yet you are all praying for him and his family!



Ọmọ if this Arab man doesn't need prayers then why are you always praying for him when you go for salat nah?

Indeed you didn't understand before and are still incapable of understanding. Whether you send prayers to him or not he is already blessed.
We however do not exaggerate praising him as you have done with Jesus. How many people actually saw him when he returned to establish the Jehovah witness?

MaxInDHouse:
You're lying to your own soul!

Davido gave Chioma his assurance before the whole world now how would you describe someone who feels like begging Davido to stick to his promise which he made publicly to Chioma?
Even Chioma can compel Davido to grant the request of someone else because of the love he has for her.
That's imperfect humans but you are saying God whose words has the greatest of all guarantee that you still need to continue pleading for Him to grant what He Himself assured His beloved prophet. Who are you and what pedigree do you have to intercede for God's prophet? Shouldn't it have been the other way around?
Ọmọ Muslims praying for Muhammad shows your faith in Islam is futile if you're still praying for the prophet who brought that religion!

Pathetic comparison because I expose you of being just a claimed Muslim who never new Islam?
Please show proof that prophet Muhammad pbuh is in need of our prayers.
You may take this up elsewhere let the OP have the honour of maintaining his actual thread.

MaxInDHouse:
So Muhammad who pleased your Allah and got assurance from your Allah still needs the prayers of people who are supposed to look up to his example for salvation!

Well that's not respect but lack of faith in your Allah Jehovah assured those following Jesus {Matthew 17:5} and Jesus assured those with him! Matthew 28:18

It's clear you people are taught to pity your prophet but Jesus doesn't need anyone's prayers neither his disciples because they've been assured of their salvation!

For someone feigning concerns about non concise responses. Regardless of wheher prophet Muhammad pbuh is prayed for or not he is assured.

MaxInDHouse:
I'm as calm as ever!

So if Muhammad pleased Allah throughout his life and Allah assured Muhammad then why do Muslims have to pray for Muhammad and his household?

This is simply a sign of respect and love for him, as well as acknowledging the significant role he played in propagating the message of Islam

MaxInDHouse:
Please i will love short and straightforward answers because that's what no Muslim has ever given me back in Islam instead they often turn to stories which can't blur my sense when i'm inquisitive about something.
So answer these questions without delay!


[1] Did Muhammad seek Allah's pleasure?

[2] What assurance did Allah give Muhammad?

Calm down.

1. Yes, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh upon sought Allah's pleasure throughout his life.

2. Allah provided several assurances to Prophet Muhammad pbuh throughout his life and mission.

Allah reassures Muhammad pbuh of the great reward awaiting the believers in Paradise with him having a distinguished rank amongst the believers.

MaxInDHouse:
Back in Islam i was taught to believe that God can't be pleased no matter what we do even if we obey all His commandments that's why Muhammed couldn't guarantee the salvation of Muslims hence he told them that Allah can do whatever pleases him leaving faithful, sincere and honest hearted Muslims at a cross road but from the day i read Jesus' last words to his disciples i began seeking more information about this Jesus of Nazareth.

I wonder how you resorted to this.

The pleasure of Allah represents the ultimate aspiration for His creations. The essence of religion lies in obeying Allah and striving for His pleasure. This emphasizes that seeking Allah's pleasure is both the core principle and the ultimate aim of faith.

Does this view of yours not contradict these versea if you actually came across them as a claimed Muslim of the past.
Quran 98:8
Their reward with Allah will be gardens of perpetual residence beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever, Allah being pleased with them and they with Him. That is for whoever has feared his Lord.

Quran 5:119
Allah will say, 'This is the Day when the truthful will benefit from their truthfulness.' For them are gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever, Allah being pleased with them, and they with Him. That is the great attainment."

Quran 2:222:
Indeed, Allah loves those who are constantly repentant and loves those who purify themselves

And the Hadith:
Allah is more pleased with the repentance of His servant than one of you who finds his camel after losing it in a barren desert."
This powerful analogy illustrates the overwhelming joy Allah feels when a sinner repents, emphasizing His mercy and willingness to forgive.

Copied

Firstly, the verse you provided and the hadeeth you provided from Bukhari speak of two different veins or arteries when looking at the Arabic text (the Qur’aan uses “al-wateen” while the hadeeth uses “al-abhar”). This alone disproves the claim; however, why allow an opportunity to completely obliterate this claim to go to waste?

Now if we are to understand the verses you have provided correctly, they actually reinforce the truthfulness of prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as found in numerous other verses:

“By the star when it descends, Your companion has not strayed, nor has he erred, Nor does he speak from [his own] desires, It is not but a revelation revealed” (Qur’aan / An-Najm 53:1-4)

“Indeed Allaah shall fulfill the true vision which He showed to His Messenger in very truth…” (Qur’aan / Al-Fath 48:27)

“Truly, you are one of the messengers” (Qur’aan / Yaa-Seen 36:3)

“Nay! he has come with the truth and he confirms the messengers.” (Qur’aan / As-Saaffaat 37:37)

Furthermore, with regard to this verse:

“And then certainly should have cut off his life artery (Aorta)”

This is to be understood (according to both tafsir ibn Katheer and Tabari) that if anything/any part was false or forged, it would have been a swift punishment or occurrence of having the aorta cut, which would cause instant death. It would not be delayed until after the message had been completely delivered, and in this case, perfected as Allaah later revealed in the Qur’aan:

“This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.” (Qur’aan / Al-Maa’idah 5:3)

Allaah did not cut the aorta of the prophet Muhammad (PBUH), plain and simple and the prophet (PBUH) did not hve his aorta cut!

And a few fitting return questions to you then would be:

1). why would Allaah Send Blessings on a false prophet?

“Allah sends His Graces and Blessings on the prophet …” (Qur’aan / Al-Ahzaab 33:56)

2). why would Allaah say that Muhammad (PBUH) is surely a messenger and is true, if he was false?

“These are the Verses of Allah, We recite them to you in truth, and surely, you are one of the messengers.” (Qur’aan / Al-Baqarah 2:252)

“How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their belief and after they bore witness that the messenger is true and after clear proofs had come unto them? And Allah guides not the people who are wrong-doers.” (Qur’aan / Aal-’Imraan 3:86)

“O humankind! Verily, there has come to you the messenger with the truth from your Lord, so believe in him, it is better for you. But if you disbelieve, then certainly to Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. And Allah is Ever All Knowing, All Wise.” (Qur’aan / An-Nisaa 4:170)

3). Why would Allaah Command the believers to obey the messenger numerous times throughout the Qur’aan if he was false?

3:32 / 3:132 / 4:42 / 4:59 / 4:69 / 4:80 / 5:92 / 24:54 / 24:56 etc.

Finally, it should also be mentioned that the statement uttered by the prophet (PBUH) about his aorta being cut was a common idiom used by Arabs in that time when referring to death in any form and is not necessarily to be taken literally.

SIRTee15:
We both saying the same thing.
Allah warned he will kill Muhammed by sliding his major blood vessel- life artery, if he's ever caught lying.

And that's exactly how he died. Muhammed groaned his aorta- life artery was being severed.

Do U get it now.

What lie did he tell?

MaxInDHouse:
Books are meant to unite people in their thinking but our God's given brains is what we use to distinguish between what is inhumane and what is virtuous.

So i don't subject my brains to anything found in books when it's of no practical benefits because i know the true God won't ask people to gather and do what won't benefit them as an assembly of intelligent beings.

If any God can't resolve disparities among the worshipers such a God is worthless, useless and hopeless and there no reason to trust in whatever anyone says or write about such a God!

Has this belief of yours resolved disparities?

Are you feigning disagreement with my practice and position about Islam?

Has your belief prevented the Israeli-Hamas war?

SIRTee15:
Come let me slize your carotid artery since it's not the aorta.
Let's see if the outcome will be different from cutting your aorta.

Now you try to get it.

Once humans bite the dust they sure will push up daisies since the heart stopped

MaxInDHouse:
All what you're quoting in your book becomes useless when sincere observers noticed that it's just to bow towards a stone that matters most in your religion after all people used to bow towards metals, stones and other objects before now so what makes yours special?

Is it because Arabs wrote a book to back it up?

Do you derive a lot that guides you from the doctrine of JW and the Bible? What have you mostly been writing here on nairaland?

Do you support these with material from documented books?

SIRTee15:
So both al wateen in the Quran and Al abahr in hadith denotes blood vessels. Then what's the difference!!!!

I even thought they would mean different organs with different functions. Not knowing is same blood vessels for both words.

So a questionable medical expert says there are no differences in blood vessels?

You don't know that blood vessels in the human body come in various shapes and sizes, each with distinct structures and functions? Grasping these differences is essential for understanding blood circulation and the impact of different conditions on vascular health.

Al-Wateen as used in the Quran refers particularly to the aorta while al-abhar can refer to the aorta or other major arteries.

Al-abhar is used metaphorically as in the hadith metaphorically expresses the intensity of pain or a life-threatening condition.

The term al-abhar within Arabic language is used to describe a state of severe pain or suffering. In medical discussions, especially in traditional and alternative medicine, “al-abhar” can refer to conditions seen as debilitating or even life-threatening. It metaphorically connects to the concept of deep, penetrating pain that can impact a person's overall health and well-being.

SIRTee15:
Did U read the link I sent U on poisoning or U started your crazy unsubstantiated argument again.

Don't worry, just swallow a sip of industrial acid...just a sip. Since it's just a sip, I'm sure u will overcome the initial toxic effect on your system.
Only that we will make good money out of U treating your chronic esophagitis and gastritis till U die.
Shebi U want to prove stupid to extricate Muhammed.

Regarding what your prophet did with cupping, your answer is here...
Once again kiss the truth unless U want to tell me U know better than muhammed's companions

Bringing the same unfounded logic can 2 people sip industrial acid with one experiencing the effect immediately while the other takes years to feel it? How? Is this medically defensible?

Narrated Ibn Abbas(R.A): (The Prophet (SAWS) said), "Healing is in three things: A gulp of honey, cupping, and branding with fire." But I forbid my followers to use branding with fire.

The Prophet Muhammad (Peace And Blessings Be Upon Him) said: The finest medicine is Hijama cupping; it eliminates blood, lightens the back and sharpens the eyesight. Sunan al-Tirmidhi 3053

In Saheeh Al-Bukhari and Saheeh Muslim it is reported that Anas may Allaah be pleased with him narrated that the Prophet, sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, said: “Hijaamah is the perfect medical treatment.”

How many of my classmates sipped acids during secondary school practical decades ago and are still living healthy today?

advocatejare:
Carry your frustration to go and meet Sahih Muslim.

Muhammad also said that the poisoned food caused the sickness that killed him. Are you saying that Muhammad was not sane when he said that?

Referring to yourself for not understanding what you chose to post? You feel your brother, father or other people's uvula on their behalf? How did you connect your nervous system to it? By special leeching?

MaxInDHouse:
So all races on these planet are worshiping the god they know as your Allah nah.

The funny thing about you is the way and manner you will start quoting your book as if other worshipers aren't worshiping your Allah based on what is written in your book but now i'm quoting what Jesus said in the Bible for all his disciples to OBEY Instead of reasoning to understand that anyone ignoring this order is not worshiping the God that sent Jesus you're saying killers are Christians simply because they claimed so.
Why not accept that all worshipers of God/Gods are doing so for your Allah irrespective of what your Allah says in your book?

Quran 29:17: You worship idols besides God, and you fabricate falsehoods. Those you worship, instead of God, cannot provide you with livelihood. So seek your livelihood from God, and worship Him, and thank Him. To Him you will be returned.


Quran 31:13 ......, do not associate anything with God, for idolatry is a terrible wrong

When you channel your worship towards an intermediary rather than directly to God it becomes an idolatrous practices as those intermediaries overshadow the direct worship due only to God.

You practice your faith based on 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus but end up magnifying the mediator above God.

This amongst others has inadvertently led to practices that blur the lines between reverence for Christ and veneration that resembles idol worship.

Muslims pray to Allah directly as he is extremely close to us.

SIRTee15:
I think we done here - I hate it when people reject evidence because it goes against their claim.
If U want to reject your hadith, that's your business.
hiding behind medical pathophysiology to extricate your Prophet would not safe him.

Muhammed knew what killed him and he voiced it out while dying. The hadiths confirmed it.

Your hadith is clear- MUHAMMED SUFFERED FROM THE POISON EFFECT RIGHT FROM THE TIME HE INGESTED IT TILL HE DIED.
LEARN TO KISS THE TRUTH.

Now if you want us to deal with the actual pathophysiology of Muhammed's poison effect, I will educate U but first answer my question

Was Muhammed wrong to say the poison was still in his body during his terminal illness 3 yrs after consuming the poison.

Was Muhammed wrong to have attributed his terminal illness pain to the poison effect still in his body.

If the poison had left his body as U trying to claim, why did Muhammed groan that he was dying as a result of the poison effect still in his body.

Answer the questions and I will give U a proper teaching on the poison pathophysiology U confused about.

Reject evidence?

Did prophet Muhammad pbuh practice cupping for sickness?

What proof is there that all cupping done after the Khaybar expedition was for poison effect if he practiced cupping for other ailments before this?

So all bacteria as an example are equally sensitive to the same type of antibiotics? Is this how you practice medicine?

I didn't state unequivocally the poison had left his body but ask you to find medical evidence of singular exposure to food poisoning lasting for years before killing the subject and you are having gargantuan delusions. Keep silent so you don't convince people you don't know.

Obviously you have nothing unquestionable to prove your case. Make sure you know what you are talking about before making statements.

SIRTee15:
Ok I found answers to some of your questions.

It looks like the effect of the poison on Muhammed was chronic and progressive as he used to fall ill as a result of the poison.

So your argument that Muhammed's terminal illness couldn't be as a result of the poison holds no ground.

He had recurring illness all through his last years on earth as a result of the poison.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/32762

Desperately looking for a means to validate your error or uphold your claim to medical expertise? Please do much better.

Which is correct please? The prophet was well enough to go on long journeys, hajj, fasting or he was persistently sick due to the effects of poisoning?

Cupping was a well-known treatment endorsed by the Prophet pbuh so you cannot authoritatively say you have conclusive evidence linking it directly to his response to the poisoning incident at Khaybar.

Please do a thorough job and don't rush back to post to reveal yourself.