₦airaland Forum

SIRTeee15:
The Prophet Muhammad said: “The Koran was revealed in seven dialects, all of them are right and perfect.” When Uthman banned whichever he banned from the Koran, and burned whichever he burned, he banned passages Allah has revealed and burned parts of the Koran which were given to the Muslims by the Messenger of Allah. He appointed a small group of Sahaba (close friends of Muhammad) to rewrite the Koran and left out those who heard the Prophet and memorized what he said. When Ibn Massoud objected to the burning of the other codices of the Koran, Uthman had him taken out of the mosque with violence, and struck him to the ground, and broke one of his ribs. (Hussein, A-Fitnato Al-Kobra [The Great Sedition], pp. 160-161, 181-182)

These are your own Islamic sources providing historic evidence that there was serious disagreement amongst the Sahaba about what should constitute the Quran, they couldn't even agree.

The idea that preservation of the Qur'an can be traced to Muhammed is a lie. It's a claim not supported by your own Islamic narratives and sources.

TenQ is already justice with the textual variance of different Quranic manuscripts.

SIRTeee15:
After Uthman had him beaten and got his ribs broken? That sounds like intimidation and oppression- what gangsters will do to have their way.

The authenticity of the Qur'an has sparked quite a bit of scholarly discussion, especially when it comes to the actions of Caliph Uthmān ibn Affān and his interactions with key figures like Ibn Mas‘ūd. One claim suggests that Ibn Mas‘ūd was against the burning of personal mushafs and that Uthmān even assaulted him, leading to broken ribs. However, historical evidence largely contradicts this narrative. Reliable sources, such as Sahih Bukhārī and Sahih Muslim, don’t back up these reports of violence, indicating that the stories about Uthmān's aggression likely come from weak or fabricated hadiths often found in Shia literature or Orientalist writings.

Another claim suggests that Surah al-Ahzab originally had 200 verses, referencing narrations from Aisha (RA) and Ubayy ibn Ka‘b. While these accounts appear in Musnad Ahmad, they face scrutiny due to their weaker chains of transmission. Most scholars interpret these references to additional verses as relating to abrogated content rather than a genuine reduction in length by Uthmān. Historical theology recognizes the principle of naskh (abrogation), where certain verses revealed during the Prophet’s lifetime were removed by divine will, a concept that classical scholars accept.

In addition , the idea that Ubayy ibn Ka‘b had a different mushaf with extra surahs doesn’t imply wrongdoing on Uthmān’s part; these differences reflect early teaching methods rather than any corruption of the text. Overall, the narrative that seeks to undermine Uthmān’s role in the Qur'anic compilation lacks solid evidence and overlooks the agreement among the Sahabah, including Ali ibn Abi Talib, who backed Uthmān's efforts to standardize the text. Therefore, what might seem like inconsistencies or omissions are better understood through the lenses of abrogation, dialect standardization, and the preservation of oral tradition.


You will do better in scrutinizing the authenticity of the claims that Ibn Masud was beaten up to forcefully accept the standardised Quran.

Did Tenq show how the core meaning of the verses were lost? Did he prove any wrong or faults in the transmission chain? No!

Or is it how honesttalk21 dismantled his reliance on a pronounciation of words in one verse that is easily explained by dialectic difference you refer to?

SIRTeee15:
One of the greatest reciters approved by Muhammed himself, Ibn Masud called the Quranic script compiled by Uthman a corrupt work and rightly rejected it.

When ibn Masud protested the burning of his own Quran he personally compiled, he was beaten, his ribs broken and thrown out of the mosque on the order of Uthman

Abdullah Ibn Masud said, “I recited from the Messenger of Allah (saw) seventy surahs which I had perfected before Zaid Ibn Thabit had embraced Islam.” (The Codices of Ibn Mas'ud and Ubayy Ibn Ka'b, – Ibn Abi Dawud’s Kitab al-Masahif, p. 17)

“I acquired directly from the Messenger of Allah (saw) seventy surahs when Zaid was still a childish youth - must I now forsake what I acquired directly from the Messenger of Allah?” ( Ibid., p. 15)

When Uthman's agents came to Kufa to burn all the variants, Abd Allah Ibn Masud hid his copy of Quran from them and told his followers to do the same. He justified his own version of the recitation by reminding people:

"I recited before Allah's Messenger more than seventy suras of the Qur'an. His Companions know that I have a better understanding of Allah's Book than they do; and if I were to know that someone had a better understanding than I have, I would have gone to him." It was said that nobody could find fault with Abd Allah's version
(Sahih Muslim, Book 031, Number 6022)

Let’s closely look at the situation with Ibn Mas‘ūd, who initially had some objections that are often misunderstood.

His Main Concerns were that he felt left out of the conversation, especially given his status as a senior reciter.

He believed that his own personal mushaf, which he had written under the guidance of the Prophet, deserved a place in the final compilation.

He had some disagreements regarding a few surahs most notably, he didn’t include Surah al-Falaq and an-Nās.

Importantly, there’s no authentic hadith or historical record that states Ibn Mas‘ūd labeled the Uthmanic Mushaf as "corrupt" in terms of alteration or fabrication. That term tends to pop up in more contentious or revisionist discussions, rather than in the works of mainstream Islamic historians.

In the end, Ibn Mas‘ūd did come to accept the Uthmanic mushaf.

He ceased his objections once the Ummah came together around it.

You rather base your stance on the hadith regarding 70 surahs and label the remaining 44 as false? Please identity these surahs for better scrutiny.

There’s no evidence to suggest he promoted an alternative Qur'an.

Imam al-Nawawī noted:

“The correct view is that he (Ibn Mas‘ūd) withdrew his opposition and aligned with the consensus.”

SIRTee15:
I don't believe the Quran is perfectly preserved right from the mouth of Muhammed. There was serious distortion and manipulation with the Quran development during the caliphate of Uthman.

He complied the Quran of his own wish and desire and burned the ones he didn't like.

The Sana manuscript is clear evidence of the discrepancy in Quranic compilation and tradition is early islamic era.

The Sanʿa manuscript is an essential piece for grasping how the early Qurʾān was transcribed and preserved. Its palimpsest nature shows a practical solution to the limited availability of parchment, rather than any theological disagreements. This common practice of erasing and rewriting over older texts doesn’t suggest that there were different versions of the scriptures; it simply highlights the logistical hurdles that early scribes faced.

Additionally, the differences observed in this manuscript, like variations in spelling, shouldn’t be confused with actual textual differences. Changes in spelling, word order, or missing diacritical marks were quite normal and didn’t change the meaning of the recitation. The later standardization through iʿjām and tashkil represents a move towards clarity, but it doesn’t mean there was any initial inconsistency in the message.

It’s also crucial to remember that the integrity of the Qurʾan has always been rooted in oral tradition. The dedicated memorization efforts by the sahabah and the Prophet Muhammad’s pbuh interactions with Jibrīl during Ramadan reinforce this oral tradition as fundamental.

Finally, even respected scholars like Michael Cook and Francois Deroche point out that while early manuscripts shed light on the preservation process, they don’t undermine the established consistency of the ʿUthmānic Qurʾān. Therefore, the Ṣanaa manuscript enriches our understanding rather than challenging core beliefs

SIRTee15:
I don't believe the Quran is perfectly preserved right from the mouth of Muhammed. There was serious disruption and manipulation with the Quran development during the caliphate of Uthman.

He complied the Quran of his own wish and desire and burned the ones he didn't like.

The Sana manuscript is clear evidence of the discrepancy in Quranic compilation and tradition is early islamic era.

It will be most valuable and sincere if you can clearly state what constitute the serious disruption and manipulation with the Quran under the caliphate of Uthman.

A blanket statement without substance is of no value.

TenQ:
1. Because he knows the answer Mohammed did not yet know.
2. The set of questions never existed either I. Judaism or Christianity. Only in Islam did we see the question being asked and the answer given.

Again, my TWO Questions:
1. So, is Abdullah bin Salam a prophet of Allah or Mohammed?
It seems every prophet before Mohammed knew the answer except Mohammed until Jibril told him!
2. How come Mohammed was a prophet but he didn't know the answer till Abdullah bin Salam asked him?

That bin Salam understood the hypocritical behaviour of his people?

You also are far from aware that in
Talmud – Niddah 31a (Babylonian Talmud):
If the woman emits seed first, she will give birth to a male. If the man emits seed first, she will give birth to a female.

This version inverts the genders compared to the hadith.

But it still links order of climax/ejaculation to child’s sex.

It’s unfortunate that there seems to be a misunderstanding regarding the preservation of the Qur’an. Allow me to clarify the matter:

1. Preservation Does Not Mean Every Revelation Was Included

The presence of abrogation or references to lifted verses does not compromise the perfection of the Quran’s preservation. Rather, it affirms that the Qur’an was preserved exactly as Allah intended through divine selection of what should remain recited and recorded, and what was to be lifted. The Prophet pbuh personally oversaw this process, instructing where each verse belonged.

It’s important to distinguish between different forms of revelation:

Qur’an (recited revelation )– Recited as scripture.
Hadith Qudsi – Sacred but not part of the Qur’an.
Abrogated Verses – Once revealed, then lifted.

The Prophet pbuh received many revelations, but not all were meant for permanent inclusion in the Qur’an. As Imām al-Qarāfī noted in al-Furūq, preservation was never about including every revealed word, but preserving what Allah intended to endure.

2. Abrogation Was Part of the Revelation Process. As Allah says:
We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth one better than it or similar to it.
(Surah al-Baqarah 2:106)

When companions like Zayd ibn Thābit or Aʾishah mention certain verses that were once recited, they are not implying anything was lost rather, they’re affirming that some verses were revealed and then divinely lifted.

3. The Prophet pbuh personally supervised the Compilation as he

* Called scribes to write specific verses,
* Arranged them in precise order,
* Instructed that certain revelations not be recorded as Qur’an due to abrogation.

Thus, what remained in the Qur’an was only what the Prophet pbuh affirmed and this is the essence of true preservation.

Furthermore, the compilation of the Qur’an under Caliph Uthman was done with the full consensus of the companions. None of them, including those who narrated abrogated or lifted verses, ever claimed the Qur’an was incomplete. Even scholars from the Ahl al-Bayt affirmed its authenticity.

Imam al-Baqir: No one can claim he possesses more of the Qur’an than what is in the muṣḥaf.

Imām Jaʿfar al-Ṣādiq: The Qur’an is one, revealed by One, and confirmed by the Prophet.

The Qur’an we have today is complete not because it includes every word ever revealed, but because it includes everything Allah *willed* to remain. This view is upheld by both Sunni and Shi’a scholars, including Tusi, Tabrisi, al-Suyuti, and Fakhr al-Din al-Razi.

It's sad you are unable to comprehend and accept that:

1. The presence of abrogation and reports of lifted verses does not mean the Qur'an wasn't perfectly preserved. It affirms that the preservation was carried out exactly as Allah intended i.e with divine selection of what should remain recited and recorded, and what should not. The Prophet pbuh himself instructed what verses should go where.

Preservation ≠ (doesn't equal) Inclusion of Every Revelation

Revelation comes in many forms:

Qur’an (mutluww)

Hadith Qudsi

Abrogated verses (once recited, then lifted)

The Prophet pbuh received much revelation, but not all of it was meant for eternal recitation.
Imām al-Qarāfī, al-Furūq

2. 2. Abrogation Was a Part of the Revelation Process
“We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth one better than it or similar to it.”
(Surah al-Baqarah 2:106)

So when Zayd ibn Thābit or Aʾishah mention missing verses, they are not saying “we lost it,” but rather:
“It was once revealed, then Allah lifted it.”

3. 3. The Prophet pbuh personally Supervised What Went into the Qur’an.
He would:
Call scribes to write specific verses,
Arrange them in specific order,
Tell companions not to write or recite some things as Qur’an (because they had been abrogated).

This means that only what the Prophet pbuh confirmed as Qur'an remains. That is preservation.


The mushaf of ʿUthman was compiled with consensus of the Companions.

No companion said: This Qur’an is incomplete.

Even those who reported lifted verses (like Zayd and Abu Musa) were among those who affirmed the authenticity of the final mushaf.

Also;
The suspicion raised about the integrity of the codex of the Qur’an was dropped.”
– Study Quran commentary on Shiʿi exegesis

Imām al-Bāqir: No one can claim he has with him more of the Qur’an than what is in the muṣḥaf.

Imām Jaʿfar al-Ṣādiq: The Qur'an is one, revealed by One, and confirmed by the Prophet

The Qur’an today is complete, not because every revealed word remains, but because:

Everything Allah willed to remain has remained.

The Ahl al-Bayt and Ṣaḥābah never doubted the preserved core.

Scholars from both Sunni and Shi’a traditions Ṭūsī, Ṭabrisī, al-Suyūṭī, Fakhr al-Dīn al-Rāzī affirm the integrity of the Qur’ān’s preservation.

TenQ:
TWO Questions:
1. So, is Abdullah bin Salam a prophet of Allah or Mohammed?

It seems every prophet before Mohammed knew the answer except Mohammed until Jibril told him!
2. How come Mohammed was a prophet but he didn't know the answer till Abdullah bin Salam asked him?

Why would you think question 1.

2. Please enlighten me about other prophets being asked this question and their answers

honesttalk21:
Why bother with this guy. I have addressed his incorrect perception and misconceptions of evidence for. The Quran is well preserved as it was initially transmitted.

He is trying to water down the reality of his error

Yes I agree with you.

You clearly showed him that

1. Jam‘ al-Qur’an refers to both the memorization and the written compilation of the Quran.

2. The Prophet pbuh had scribes who recorded verses during his lifetime.

3. Abū Bakr’s team followed strict guidelines, requiring written proof and two witnesses for verification.

4. ʿUthmān focused on standardizing the dialect, not altering the content.

5. The Qur’an has been preserved through widespread memorization and manuscripts, with no changes to its doctrine.

6. There are no lost surahs, no additions, and no editing councils involved.


No other scripture boasts this level of preservation. Let’s be real about the evidence.

TenQ:
We can come back to this later.

So, Tell me sir,
What is wrong IN this hadith about Mohammed's answer and can this hadith show that Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

I don't see anything wrong with the hadith.

The truth was spoken about Jibril

TenQ:
According to him and the hadith, `Abdullah bin Salam accepted Islam.

Has it come to your view that `Abdullah bin Salam could be the greatest liar amongst to Jews?
I believe you've heard of deep cover spies before!
LOL!

He said: ask them about me before they know about my conversion to Islam!

Even though, this is not the issue at stake, Can you please answer this YES or NO question
When`Abdullah bin Salam became a Muslim, did he cease being a Jew?


Then we can go back to the hadith

So, Tell me sir,
What is wrong IN this hadith about Mohammed's answer and can this hadith show that Mohammed was speaking the truth about Jibril or not?

The statement about Jews that they are a people of falsehood, is more about a specific situation than a blanket statement about all Jews in Islam.
In Islamic teachings, there’s a deeper understanding that recognizes the diversity among Jewish communities. Some individuals who betrayed the trust during the time of the Prophet Muhammad in Medina were rightly criticized for their actions, while others were acknowledged for their honesty and integrity

TenQ:
Hello my friend.
It's a long time.

You are wondering that what is the trick in the hadith I just posted!? `Abdullah bin Salam gave the trick question not me!

My claim with the hadith is that there is no Jibril anywhere and every claim about Jibril is certainly fraudulent!

Very well and not unexpected from you.

Whoever is an enemy to Allah, His angels, His messengers, and Jibrīl and Mīkāl, then verily, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers."
Surah al-Baqarah 2:98


You know Abdullah bin Salam accepted Islam

TenQ:
This is what I am stating!

It is amazing that as a Muslim, you did NOT see the problem with the hadith. The question was a trick question that both Mohammed and your Islamic scholars and then you have fallen for

Long time troublesome Tenq.

What is the trick?

TenQ:
I always show you proofs from your Islamic literatures.

Denying the truth is your nature: it's not a surprise!
Burying your head in the sand doesn't change then truth!

Explore2xmore:
Audacity of a liar TENQ to talk about truth.

Do you deny your lies that hadith contradict each other or is it one another?
Once caught you shifted to hadith contradicting the Quran even despite your ability inability to understand either the hadith or Quran.

No more time for clowns like you

Your proof of misplaced, misconstrued interpretation an understanding.

TenQ:
If you have a question, open a thread and I promise to join you.

Truth with Knowledge is the only weapon against Islam

Audacity of a liar TENQ to talk about truth.

Do you deny your lies that hadith contradict each other or is it one another?
Once caught you shifted to hadith contradicting the Quran even despite your ability to understand either the hadith or Quran.

No more time for clowns like you

TenQ:
Stop crying!

Consoling yourself or this is some sort of psychological psychiatric compensation?

Matthew 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.

Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God

Luke 18:25 Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.

Please explain if the Camel actually goes through the eye of a needle.

Will you understand a metaphorical statement like I will rather take out my 2 kidneys than drink poisoned wine?

[quote author=TenQ post=133849616][/quote]The clown has lost control again.

TenQ:
Since you have nothing else to say by the gross conflict of directions between Allah and your prophet, you can call it a day.

You remind me of Hamas, after beating them blue-black, they will come out shouting that they won the fight!
SMH!

The final kick of the dying donkey?

A LOW DOWN DIRTY SHAME.

You say the hadiths of different scholars contradict then I ask you to show this.

You then rephrase and contradict yourself that the Quran and hadiths contradict each other without understanding what the hadith means.

Just as the proud peacock you cannot ask for the explanation as you rather stick to your faulty prejudice of Islamophobia that suits your condescending self.

Read Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25) and Luke 18:25 and probably you can get a hint.

How the joke Tenq the clown contradicts himself

TenQ:
I am just showing you that Islam is a chronic collections of contradictions.


How does one need explanations from scholars for things that are clearly presented by other scholars?

Are people like Bukhari and Muslim not scholars?

And Quickly went to:

TenQ:
The contradiction is between the Qur'an and the Hadiths.

[/quote]In the first place is the Quran a recitation composed by scholars or the hadith?

Furthermore he doesn't understand the hadith by scholars but quickly says they contradict the Quran.

Simply too slow on the uptake

TenQ:
I am just educating you from the Bible on the meaning of kunfayakun because you seem not to know that it is creation by the power of command ALONE!


Allah claimed he created Adam from the mud with his two hand!
How can Allah also claim that he created Adam by his command?

I actually doubt you know the meaning of contradiction.

It is an irreconcilable contradiction if you don't know.

Of course you must express your prejudice and bias.

Do extremely well to explain to yourself why the Bible which is not one revelation to one person should be the benchmark for the Quran revealed to one person?

Why Kun fa yakun in Arabic has no basis with the compilation of books you call the Bible rewritten and collated in different languages? Don't leave out the review of the group in deciding which is and which isn't Canon and should not be Included.

TenQ:
Why do you enjoy convincing yourself of untruths?

It is either Allah created Adam with his hands or he spoke Adam into existence. QED!!

Let me give you an example:

Gen 1:1-3:
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."

Let there be Light and there was Light!

There was not additional thing God did on the Light that he spoke into existence.

Or

Gen 1:11-12:
"And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

There was no additional thing God did on bringing out vegetations.



But Mohammed the copycat, he mixed everything up because of lack of knowledge and understanding.

Too bad!

God created many different things.

Did he create them all alike?

Does light have a spirit like mankind?

Will the account of light, water and all other created things be like man's?

Do these things have freewill like mankind?

TenQ:
I am just showing you that Islam is a chronic collections of contradictions.


How does one need explanations from scholars for things that are clearly presented by other scholars?

Are people like Bukhari and Muslim not scholars?

Perhaps you should first show the contradiction in the Hadiths you shared

TenQ:
Apart from
Riyad as-Salihin 432
Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah said, "On the Day of Resurrection, Allah will deliver to every Muslim, a Jew or a Christian and say: 'This is your ransom from Hell-fire."'

Your prophet also said it in Bukhari
Sahih Muslim 2767 b
Abu Burda reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle said:
No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire. 'Umar b. Abd al-'Aziz took an oath: By One besides Whom there is no god but He, thrice that his father had narrated that to him from Allah's Messenger

Is imam Muslim also a liar?

Here is another one

Riyad as-Salihin 432
Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
Messenger of Allah said, "On the Day of Resurrection, Allah will deliver to every Muslim, a Jew or a Christian and say: 'This is your ransom from Hell-fire."'
Another narration is: Messenger of Allah said, "There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with sins as heavy as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them".



If indeed Quran 6:164 is correct and everyone will pay for their sin, coupled with the hadith Riyad as-Salihin 432,
Can you tell me why Muslims (who did not repent before their death) with sins as great as mountains would NOT bear the consequences of their sins?

I am waiting!

I didn't ask you to go collate similar narrations but get understanding of what the narration states. If you need assistance let this be explained to you by those who understand.

Do you have problems comprehending that or you just cannot comprehend?

TenQ:
All this verse has shown is that there is a BIG contradiction in the Qur'an.
It is either Allah created Adam with a command or Allah created Adam with some Actions.

Again
Is it false that Allah created Adam with mud?
Is it false that Allah created Adam with his hands?
Is it false that Allah breathe his spirit into Adam?

If these are false, then we can agree that Allah created Adam by a command of "BE" and Adam was!

Wonderful! The jester is in circus again giving some boring clown show.

It's a shame you do not realize that there are no contradictions but complimentary.

All your questions are answered in clear statements in the Quran however the limit of your human thinking cannot fathom how they go together.

You are limited within the limits of your thinking or your jest in condescending bias deprives you of seeing different.

The creation of Adam from clay, along with the divine command "Be" (Kun), illustrates the harmonious balance in Allah's creative process. Adam's formation showcases Allah's wisdom in shaping humanity, underlining the material side of existence. The command "Kun" represents Allah's ultimate authority, enabling creation to occur instantly and without limitations. This duality emphasizes Allah's omnipotence and sovereignty, shedding light on the intricate relationship between wisdom and power in the act of creation.

TenQ:
I stated with evidence from the Bible that Jesus would be our RANSOM from the fire of Hell all I wanted to know is WHY it makes sense for Christians and Jews to be your own ransom from the fire. Does it make sense to you?
Why is it that Christians and Jews will be your own ransom as Muslims from hellfire?

Christians agree that everyone is liable to his sins, but the problem is that it's consequence is impossible for anyone to bear. This is why the repentant person gets from God the Father the One who can carry the justice of God on our behalf as our RANSOM from the fire (for according to God, a sinner must be punished)

If your claim is that you are solely liable for your conduct, why did your prophet say:
Riyad as-Salihin 432
Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah said, "On the Day of Resurrection, Allah will deliver to every Muslim, a Jew or a Christian and say: 'This is your ransom from Hell-fire."'

Why would Christians and Jews pay for the judgment of Fire on the Muslims?

You will note that as a Christian, we don't have any problems in EXPLAINING how or why we believe the Scriptures. But not so with you Muslims. Because Islam is a randomly copied religion devoid of reasons for most of your copied actions.

Are you certain you are not a terrorist?

This your ransom position and a lot of what we hear/see going around. Can a ransom be given to one who has it all?

Study Riyadh saliheen very well and if you don't understand better ask.


......No one will reap except what they sow. No soul burdened with sin will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you of your differences.
Quran 6:164

TenQ:
Exactly the same way interpreted that Jesus is NOT the Messiah. And they interpreted that Jesus was not born of a virgin. And they interpreted that Jesus was a sorcerer. Do you agree with them on these?

Reconcile with them as they are the people from which your Jesus is from. I sense a Pharisees and Sadducees like difference in your opinion. What I feel is irrelevant as it is you and them to resolve.

TenQ:
I m NOT a Muslim as the question is strictly for you Muslims.

TenQ:
All I ask is WHY?
Why according to Islam is Jesus the ONLY one who has not died and is with Allah according to your prophet?

You now remember you are not a Muslim but in your delusions you know more about the Quran and Islam than Muslims?

You say only Jesus but cannot account for every single person that lives in your street talk less of the world and specifically all that have existed through thd many millennia to know who else is with Allah despite haven not died. You now have full documentation of all humanity since the inception of mankind?

Where did you get your statement about only Jesus from?

TenQ:
Doesn't your prophet agree that every son of Adam is a sinner?
Mishkat al-Masabih 2341
Anas reported God’s messenger as saying, "All the sons of Adam are sinners, but the best of sinners are those who are given to repentance."


Do you disagree that Isaac (Abraham's Son) is a son or descendant of Adam?

Another assignment for you. What is the validity in terms of authenticity of what you reproduced despite proudly sharing you are ignorant to provide reference as you are not muslim?

If all descendants of Adam are sinners please what are the sins of Abraham's son in relation to your faulty belief in human blood sacrifice for redemption or reconciliation with God?

You see how deeply pagan your belief is?

From sacrifice you change to test? Please I know you clown a lot but these turn around contradictory jokes make no sense.

TenQ:
Is this because you want me to believe that Allah created Adam with a command while EVERY evidence in the Qur'an go to the contrary. The only way out for this is to conclude that it is FALSEHOOD that Allah created Adam using the Mud and it is also a FABRICATION that Allah claimed to have created Adam with his two Hands.

Is it false that Allah created Adam with mud?
Is it false that Allah created Adam with his hands?
Is it false that Allah breathe his spirit into Adam?

If these are false, then we can agree that Allah created Adam by a command of "BE" and Adam was!
[/i]

So I see you accept some verses of the Quran and reject others. Why? Just as the Pharisees and Sadducees have selective acceptance of scripture?

Is Verily, the likeness of ‘Isa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: ‘Be!’ — and he was.[Al ‘Imran 3:59 a part of the Quran or not?

See how it answers your silly questions?
Does it affirm the honor of Allah creating Adam with his own 'hands' from dust?

Does it Affirm breathing into Adam, Adam's soul/spirit?

Does it affirm the saying [b][size=14pt]Be[/size][

---

/b] to Adam?

Do you not see the nonsense of your stance?

After shaping Adam, Allah commanded him to Be, and he became a living being. This illustrates that the process of molding Adam was part of Allah's creative act, but it was His powerful word, Kun (كن), that granted life and existence.

The command Be emphasizes that all creation relies entirely on Allah’s will, surpassing any physical processes or materials involved.

The significance of Be indicates that, despite the Molding Process, it is Allah's Divine Power through the command "Be" that brings forth life, existence, and animation. The molding from dust served as a precursor, but it was His word that granted life.

The physical form made from dust or clay highlights humility, while the command Be represents the honor Allah conferred upon Adam by breathing spirit into him: "And when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My [created] soul, then fall down to him in prostration." (Quran 15:29)

The creation of Adam exemplifies Allah's absolute control over all things. He selects the means (dust/clay) and the method (the command Be, showcasing His creative power to bring life from non-living materials.

TenQ:
All you have successfully succeeded in doing is to assert that Allah did not create Adam by any command.
We can see Allah breathing
We can see Allah molding clay
We cannot see Allah saying "BE!"

Again you see what you want and go blind to other. Do you read this clearly or your eyes, hearth and brain are blind?

Explore2xmore:
As you surely cannot disappoint. You didn't review the verse mentioned.

Quran 3:59
Indeed, the example of Jesus in the sight of Allah is like that of Adam. He created him from dust, then said to him, “Be!” And he was!

TenQ:
All I ask is WHY?
Why according to Islam is Jesus the ONLY one who has not died and is with Allah according to your prophet?

Please show proof of this statement of yours.

TenQ:
Because Isaac the son of Abraham to be sacrificed was also a sinner and thus is not qualified to be a RANSOM for Abraham AND it was a TEST of Love and devotion of Abraham to God.

Do good to explain what the sins of Abraham's son were or withdraw your unfounded assertion.

TenQ:
Isa 53:10:
"Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he has put him to grief: when you shall make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand."

Jesus become cursed because He carried the curse of sin of the world upon Himself. Here what prophet Isaiah said about Jesus.
Isaiah 53:5-6
"But he (the Messiah) was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and YHWH has laid on him the iniquity of us all."

Isa 53:10 is interpreted differently by Jews to refer to a metaphor regarding Israel.

Contradicting laws Jesus in your book says he came to fulfil and uphold? No word of God will go unfulfilled.
Deuteronomy 21:22-23 in the Bible, which states:

If a man has committed a sin deserving of death, and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his body shall not remain overnight on the tree, but you shall surely bury him that day, so that you do not defile the land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance; for he who is hanged is accursed of God

So your God accursed himself going by you equating Jesus to God? Interesting contradictory dynsmics.

Interesting too that your god bruises his beloved and is too powerless to forgive man without blood sacrifice similar to traditional or pagan worship.

TenQ:
Why is it that Christians and Jews will be your own ransom as Muslims from hellfire?

(Note: Jesus Himself is the Ransom of a Christian from the fire)

Laying foundation for another prolonged dispute of no value. Check tge hadith on jews and Christian ransom to understand that everyone will get fair judgement as Allah is the most just.

Superhero fairy tales. No superman is saving you. You are liable to your conduct!

TenQ:
All you have successfully succeeded in doing is to assert that Allah did not create Adam by any command.
We can see Allah breathing
We can see Allah molding clay
We cannot see Allah saying "BE!"

Again you see what you want and go blind to other. Do you read this clearly or your eyes, hearth and brain are blind?

Explore2xmore:
As you surely cannot disappoint. You didn't review the verse mentioned.

Quran 3:59
Indeed, the example of Jesus in the sight of Allah is like that of Adam. He created him from dust, then said to him, “Be!” And he was!

TenQ:
Why is it that Christians and Jews will be your own ransom as Muslims from hellfire?

(Note: Jesus Himself is the Ransom of a Christian from the fire)

Laying foundation for another prolonged dispute of no value. Check tge hadith on jews and Christian ransom to understand that everyone will get fair judgement as Allah is the most just.

Superhero fairy tales. No superman is saving you. You are liable to your conduct!

TenQ:
In Christianity, it is NOT unique that Jesus alone left this world without dying. Jesus died; isn't it. Then resurrected; isn't it? Enoch and Elijah never even died.
As I have said, Enoch doesn't help your case because Jesus is NOT the only one in Christianity that wouldn't die.
1. Enoch is one who didn't see death
2. Elijah is one Elijah is another who didn't taste death
3. All Believers in Christ at His second coming

The question had been:
My Question was strictly about ISLAMIC teachings:
4. Why is it according to your prophet that Jesus is still alive with Allah since 2000 years ago?


Can we take it that NO ANSWER exist in Islam for the question



Is the Qur'an an eternal word of God when it contains stories of Mohammed and Zainab that happened in the 6th century etc?



Please show me from the Arabic the word My Created Soul
Why are you correcting the words of Allah?
Don't you think Allah knows the difference between soul and spirit?



So, your revered scholar Ibn Kathir concurs that Allah did not create many from any command. I have attached Ibn kathir's interpretation and it didn't even have the RUH not to speak of NAFS (soul). Attached.


Are the power and knowledge of Allah created is the question ! I am not comparing them with man's own




So again, I ask you the questions you dodged.

1. Are angels spirits?
2. Is the spirit a being OR Is the spirit an attribute?
3. Prove from the Qur'an that the spirit is created!

Nice attempt again but it seems you skipped a lot of Quran studies. Oh I forget there wasn't any save the sensational clip misinterpretation of verses by you and your islamophobe apologetics.

Indeed Ibn Kathir relies on verses of the Quran to adequately interpret others. See attached.

Then you sure never cane across Surah Araaf verse 11.

The creation of Adam alaihis salam as depicted in Surah Al-A'raf and other verses of the Quran offers a deep insight into the connection between the physical and the spiritual realms. In Surah Al-A'raf 7:11, Allah describes a step-by-step process: first, the essence of Adam is formed, then his physical body is shaped, and finally, the divine command is given for the angels to bow down to him. This progression highlights the significance of both aspects in redefining humanity's place in the universe.

Additionally, Surah Al-Hijr (15:29) and Surah Sad (38:72) confirm that the spirit, or ruh was breathed into Adam after his physical form was completed. This act represents the remarkable nature of human beings, distinguishing them from all other creations.

What is the essence of mankind other than the soul/spirit?

Deliberately misinterpreting again for your skewed objective. When Allah was telling the angels was he necesarily seeking their opinion or permission? Was he stating in words what he was doing?

Why then is the verse stating Jesus being like Adam, emphasises on the command/word to be?

Explore2xmore:
As you surely cannot disappoint. You didn't review the verse mentioned.

Quran 3:59
Indeed, the example of Jesus in the sight of Allah is like that of Adam. He created him from dust, [b]then said to him, “Be!” [/b]And he was!

I mention Idris who was raised to a high station agreed upon as paradise.

You mention uniqueness repeatedly in questionable fashion. Do Muslims not consider all the things Allah does as his majestic signs?

Clear question is

1. Abraham was to sacrifice his child to God in worship but this was stopped why then will God accept this later of mankind by his 'acclaimed son" may all not be smitten by this?

2. If the "son of God" is as God why then need he be cursed to be cursed and crucified before being able to go to hell to salvage the condemned and be a means of others going to heaven? If he is all powerful as God why can't this just be done or commanded?

The way God exhibits his knowledge is far different from man.

His power to control the universe is beyond man's or is man able to make the sun rise from the west, north or south instead of the east? Has man gone to the sun and returned?

Mankind is nothing like God though he had granted us some abilities similar but different to his.

TenQ:
Gen 5:21-24:
"And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him."

Heb 11:5:
"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."

Answering your question: According to the two scriptures above, Enoch did not taste death but he disappeared from the earth because God took him.

As I have said, Enoch doesn't help your case because Jesus is NOT the only one in Christianity that wouldn't die.
1. Enoch is one who didn't see death
2. Elijah is one Elijah is another who didn't taste death
3. All Believers in Christ at His second coming

The question had been:
My Question was strictly about ISLAMIC teachings:
4. Why is it according to your prophet that Jesus is still alive with Allah since 2000 years ago?


Do you have any evidence from from either Allah or Mohammed that there is another person who did not die?

Great attempt.

He was taken by God. Taken where or to where?

God translated him to what? Another language or entity?

If he was not to taste death then where is he or was he taken to alive.

Note that he pleased God so much in your text that he didn't taste death. Didn't Jesus please God enough not to taste death at all?
You will sing your usual illogic that he was to die for restoration of mankind please how?

Abraham's son too was soared death in sacrifice how then your almighty co-equal to God Jesus?

Is non dying anything special? Those that will be alive by Judgement day will die first before Judgement according to your Bible. Stop please. Kai!

TenQ:
Is the Word of Allah created?



There is nowhere in Islam where the spirit was created.

Allah created Man with mud Qur'an 38:71-72
Allah created Jinn from fire Qur'an 55:15
Allah created Angels from light Sahih Muslim 2996
Tell me,
How did Allah create the spirit and with what material?




Let me enlighten you with the word of Allah

Qur'an 38:72
So when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My spirit, then fall to him prostrating.

Qur'an 15:29
So when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My spirit, then fall to him prostrating.

Qur'an 15:29
So when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My spirit, then fall to him prostrating.

Qur'an 32:9
Then He proportioned him and breathed into him of His spirit, and He made for you hearing, and vision, and hearts; little are you grateful.

When Allah says رُّوحِي (ruhi): My spirit
Or
When Allah says رُوحَنَا (roohana): Our spirit
Is he not speaking of his attributes?



What if Allah had said:
My knowledge: would it mean Allah's knowledge is created?
My power: would it mean Allah's power is created?
My will: would it mean that Allah's will is created?
What then happens whenever Allah says My Spirit ?
It's just that your Muslim scholars must rewrite the Qur'an to suit their satanic agenda of misleading Muslims.


Of course, if Mohammed doesn't know what the spirit is, how can any Muslim in the world know what the spirit it?

Qur'an 17:85
And they ask you about the spirit. Say, "The spirit is of the command of my Lord, and you have not been given of knowledge except a little."




So again, I ask you the questions you dodged.

1. Are angels spirits?
2. Is the spirit a being OR Is the spirit an attribute?
3. Prove from the Qur'an that the spirit is created!

Again you cannot understand.

There is the eternal word of God and the word of God created as spirit by God in his creation.

Will you say Sahih international's translation of the meaning of the Quran is wrong in Chapter 38 verse 72?

Sahih International
So when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My [created] soul, then fall down to him in prostration.

Please explain by your non speaking arabic expertise why it is wrong compared to the one you shared!

Ibn-Kathir
71. (Remember) when your Lord said to the angels: “Truly, I am going to create man from clay.”

72. “So, when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him.

Run and criticise this as how many hundred years after he makes explanation.

Ibn Kathir's Tafsir is an important contribution to Islamic scholarship, recognized for its careful methodology and trustworthiness. It focuses on interpreting the Qur'an using the Qur'an itself, drawing on authentic Hadith and insights from the companions of the Prophet. The perspectives of the Tabaeen further enrich the discussion, and Kathir's dedication to historical context helps prevent speculative interpretations. His orthodox approach is in straightforward language and ensures it is accessible to a broad audience.

I see you mention knowledge and power of God. Please say where man's knowledge and power is compared to God's.