₦airaland Forum

mazaje: The slaves of allah are here again with their koran is perfect nonsense. . .. If it's perfect, why have generation after generation who have been steeped on it and fully applies its principles and laws not built perfect societies through its teachings? And why are there so many errors, contradictions and absurdities in it? And why does it need to be reinterpreted most of the time?. . .make wuna carry go jare. . .

me i no too like background noise. person go just siddon for one corner dey yarn anyhow.

wetin be "so many errors, contradictions and absurdities" ? make you begin dey list am one by one make i see.

(just to be clear: shey you be pagan, ba?)

Logicboy03: What nonsense are you talking about? So you now apply and dont apply wherever you want?...

we apply where applicable and dont apply where not applicable.
how difficult is that?

part of your problem, logicboy is intellectual lethargy. you just parrot, whatever charge you hear against Islam without any further research.

otherwise, you would have known that whoever came up with those examples as proof of some numerical inconsistencies was actually ignorant of islamic laws of succession.

stop it please! you're embarrassing yourself

Logicboy03: And it just doesn't add up: Sura 4:11-12 and 4:176 state the Qur'anic inheritance law. If a man dies and leaves three daughters, his two parents and his wife then they will receive the respective shares of 2/3 for the 3 daughters together, 1/3 for the parents together [both according to verse 4:11] and 1/8 for the wife [4:12] which adds up to more than the estate available.

A second example is, that when a man leaves only his other, his wife and two sisters, then they receive 1/3 [mother, 4:11], 1/4 [wife, 4:12] and 2/3 [the two sisters, 4:176], which again adds up to 15/12 of the available property

first example:
4:11 deals with the case of a man who leaves behind one child. in your example you have three daughters. so the provision doesn't apply

second example:
4:176 the allotment here apllies where a man leaves neither parent nor offspring. here you have a mother. thus if you use 4:176 in this case it'll only show your ignorance.

Logicboy03: You have to play the strawman of step brothers to make sisters equal? Dont you feel foolish?

The only time that women get equal share is when they have step bros? So the sisters are not equal to their full brothers? Retardeen logic!

she's still a FEMALE ! she can get the same, she can get more, or even inherit when males get nothing.

Logicboy03: Furthermore, the numbers do not add up from the Quran. Even muslims agree on this one. It is as simple as googling this fact. The Hadith and other sharia injuctions (from where?) have to be used to make the numbers add up in certain cases

like when?

@logicboy

when you find allegations against the Qur'an, you ought to do a little reasearch before you begin to parrot it and embarrass yourself.

1- the numbers add up!

2- i already told that women get half what men get is only 1/4 true:

F00028: that's only 1/4 true there are other instances when:
-they inherit as much as men,
-they inherit more than men, and
-they inherit while men don't

and i gave you an example:

F00028: A BIG FAT LIE!!!
e.g:if a person dies leaving one full sister and three half-brothers (by the father), the full sister gets half the inheritance, and the other half is distributed equally among the three half- brothers.

https://www.nairaland.com/1076844/africans-confused/1#12612258

solbil: tbaba, all of your long arguement become weak when you come to realise that jesus is not human. Yes, by the power of the holy spirit he became man only for about 33 years....

if that's your argument then Jeremiah occupies the same position.

God says He knew Jeremiah before he was in his mother's womb and had even appointed him a prophet. see jer.1:5

solbil: The quran agrees that Adam is the son of God...

say what?! where does the Qur'an agree to this ?!

Logicboy03: What nonsense are you talking about? Polygamy is backwards....

SAYS WHO?! by what objective standard do you declare it so? or is it 'cos white people don't like it ?

Logicboy03: Laws are made for rational people...

laws are also made to protect the weak, deter mischief and remedy wrongs. obviously your better system is failing in that department.

Logicboy03: Furthermore, the law is that the husband and wife split the estate 50/50 (without a prenuptial agreement). He cant will everything to his mistress as long as he doesnt sign a prenuptial agreement. There is also child support for underage children etc.

so, to leave wifey out of it i just need a prenup?

well, thats reassuring.

Logicboy03: Lets look at your islamic law...

why according to you, you have a better system.

Logicboy03: 1) Polygamy is not allowed in any civilized western country. We arent savages....

well, look who's a uppity lil' negro?!
(sorry. but you asked for it)

is the west all you care about and can cater for. cant your atheism provide universally applicable, practicable solutions??

you mean say nothing for your black, traditional, polygamous atheist brothers? abi dem must all come live for england?

Logicboy03: 2) The will is the will. A man has the right to spend his money how he feels like. That is why it is in all cultures that parents must be respected. I'm an atheist but I dont go around debunking my christian pops like how I debunk religious peeps here.

Only a sick parent would want his child to suffer. The kind of parent that will disown his or her child because she marries a kaffir

yeah well, what happens in the case of "sick parent" who leaves evetything to his dog? is there any recourse in your better system open to his human dependants?

what if he leaves the bulk of his etate to his mistress and leaves poor wifey and the kids with peanuts? would that be okay?

logic, you raise more questions than you give answers.

Logicboy03: -The wife (or husband) as the next of kin gets the control of the estate if she is alive

what happens if he had more than one wife?
and dont tell me you dont know non muslims practice polygamy.

Logicboy03: -This is the fairest method rather than subjective measures by age or favourite child!

you said a will was the default position, and so it is subjective. he can favour one child to the detriment of other children. will there be no protection for heirs in such cases in your system?

Logicboy03: The default position for inheritance is the will of the father (or mom)
-It is his money/property and he will share it as he damn pleases.

so if a man decides to leave to the girls a quarter of what he leaves to the boys that should be alright then?

Logicboy03: I wonder how Islam works with numerous wives and chidlren

oh, we do just great!

our system "comprises beyond question the most refined and elaborate system of rules for the devolution of property that is known to the civilised world." - prof. rumsey, Moohummudan Law of Inheritance. (1880) Preface iii

Logicboy03: An example of where islam is vile and fails is in the area of inheritance. If I follow Islam, I deserve twice of what my rich father leaves behind while my sisters get half of what I get. This doesnt make sense because my sisters are older and have taken care of my dad for a very long time. All I do is blow his money.

well, if you are a no good, irresponsible, selfish, spoilt brat it doesnt mean we all are. (hypothetically speaking of course)

Islam builds a cohesive society starting with the family unit. in our system who gets what isn't the most important thing. though i know that may hard to accept from your materialistic and individualistic standpoint.

Logicboy03: A better non-islamic solution is to share the inheritance according to who has worked for it the most. simple

fine.
who determines the inheritance?

what will constitute "worked for it"?

if he leaves an infant child who hasn't "worked for it" does he get nothing?

what happens when a man dies suddenly and didnt need any care?

and, where is this system of yours being practiced that's working better?

Logicboy03: What? Are you kidding? The same Quran that calls unbelievers "blind", "fools", "wicked", "damned" and so on?

Is there anything really worse than believing that someone else will burn forever? Have you ever thought about burning for just one minute, not to taqlk of forever?

yes, but should it matter to you?!! you dont believe in God, or hell.

take me for instance, i will never accept Jesus the Christ as anything other than what the Qur'an says he is and for that many a chriastian has condemned me to hell. it doesnt bother me why should it bother you?

except....you having doubts, logic?

Logicboy03: Furthermore, Islam and some other religions deserve mockery because of their vile and archaic doctrines. Atheism only asks for evidence...

tell you what, give me a specific exmple, show me how it's so, and give me atheism's credible alternative.

Logicboy03: Can you see yourself? You dont care because your religion has made you heartless to the unbeliever. There is a reason why many Westerners refer to some muslims as sadistic animals."

your westerners have long lost the right to call anyone sadistic.

Logicboy03: It is not a threat. Just a recommendation. It is a bad pr for your religion to be hostile

gotcha..........but it sounded like a threat.

Logicboy03: When you and your Quran condemn unbelievers, you expect me to take it on the chin but when it is your turn you keep malice and treat us atheist as lepers.

have you heard of anywhere in the Qur'an where the objects of worship of those "unbelievers" are referred to in profane vulgar terms like you guys do to what muslims hold sacred?

and do you see us whining about how "unbelievers" dont love and share a joke with us?

Logicboy03: How many times does the Quran state that the unbeliever will suffer?

you're an atheist! why should that matter to you?

Logicboy03: I dont take these things too seriously because I see the human before the religion, just like many christians here.

like i said, you guys were made for each other.

Logicboy03: You guys better change this your hostile attitude

or what?

Logicboy03: No one thinks I am a darling here. The difference is that many christians here put the human before the religion...

maybe they need look at the bible's pisition on blasphemy a little more closely.

Logicboy03: Your Quran even acknowledges this as well- it calls unbelievers mockers because it knows that people who dont believe in a religion will never take it seriously. Go and read.

just 'cos you dont take something seriously it doesnt mean that when you denigrate it, people who do take it seriously gotta just sit there and take it or even think is funny.

Logicboy03: ...and he/she mocked your god?

that's the line right there. dont be crossing it and start whining how muslims cant take a joke.

if christians will still think you're a darling after insulting the heck outta God and Jesus then you guys were made each other.

just dont bring it here or you get what you're gonna get.

you have to understand a people, logic before you can change them if that's really your objective.

white people dey madt, i swear!

@logicboy
i dont really abuse you, do i, logic?

"We have taken this step, and we wish the Church of England 'God speed' as they deliberate this week,"
-Cape Town's Anglican archbishop said.

The Anglican Church of Southern Africa has consecrated its first woman bishop in Africa.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-20408199

.

Logicboy03: I have debunked the best apologist on Nairaland on this topic.

Maybe you dont know but.....

[size=18pt]
I'm a boss[/size]

then i'll be waiting...boss

@logicboy, wiegraf

yawn!..

hey logic, if you ever grow real kahunas we may continue the discussion. but leave the sidekick at home.

Logicboy03: I have given you a satisfactory answer.

Read throughout the Quran...

Logicboy03: I should have known that you are very silly. I gave you a satisfactory answer about being moral as a human being...

sigh...i never met an atheist that wasn't intellectually bankrupt

we are not talking about the Qur'an. i repeat:

F00028: ...you're here, you're an atheist. why is slavery wrong?!

plain, simple english, no acrobatics, please

Logicboy03: I am not moral because I am an atheist, I am moral because I am a human being (and a humanist)


Please read my topic on the evolutionary basis for morality
https://www.nairaland.com/1104194/evolutionary-basis-morality-lesson-christians

that wasn't my question!

and am not reading up anything. you're here, you're an atheist. why is slavery wrong?!

(and you say anony is dodgy. mtcheeeew)

wiegraf: I spend a lot of time criticizing religion, not xtianity. You'll rarely find me in xtian only threads. Only in those addressed to atheists or those dealing with religion in general, not xtianity. You guys packed up to your caves a while back probably because you enjoy sleeping on goat skins. I bother you bunch because you're particularly hypocritical, and when talking about religion, that says a lot. Look at this silly thread for instance, it's a d1ck swinging contest more or else. And you guys have shown with something like 2 inches are thumping your chests proudly. It's ridiculous

And your puny, bigoted brain is mildly amusing. Is that supposed to be an insult? Has my manhood now been questioned for all time? Would you feel threatened by such an assumption I wonder? Hmmm

edits

you have a very exaggerated estimation of your nuisance value. you don't bother me at all.

word of advice my insecure, dysfunctional atheist friend: when you try to meet your needs of validation by insulting others, it wont always work because in the real world you meet people who:
a- dont care what you think, and
b- will insult you right back.

...and what is it with atheist and se.x.ual metaphors

ps: i meant come out of the closet as christians not as ho.mo.sexuals

wiegraf: I am? Really? I'm touched? Regardless, so?

either criticising christianity is your exclusive preserve or you two should come out

Logicboy03: I got causght lying about the Quran? Lmao!

The Quran lists punishments for adultery and stealing. Where is the punishment for Slavery?

What your right hand possesses abi? Slave religion!

this hardly seems like the thread but am curios. as an atheist, what makes slavery wrong?

wiegraf: Serious topic? Anyways, he's the only one who bothers with you guys, so think carefully about that first...

not so. as usual when logicboy is deflecting criticisms from christianity by muslims, you're usually not far behind.

.

deols: They werent all of one colour Bilal bn rabba is a good example. He was black,a companion of the prophet and one of the best of Muslims.

Najash was an Ethiopian king. Ethiopia is an African country and their language isnt arabic(as that would av made them arab). Najash was a christian b4 reverting to Islam and he offered d Muslims assylum for sometime.

wahshi wasn't an arab and neither was barakah, ibn salam, raihana or lubainah. salman was persian as was fairuz, qais was pashtun...really, its a long list.

Logicboy03: Do you thinK that I dont read the Quran?

am pretty sure you read about the Qur'an but you don't actually read the book itself. that's why you always get caught lying against it.

Logicboy03: The people of the book then were Jews and christians, who mostly Jews also

i repeat, in islam "people of the book" is not a racial group. and far as islam is concerned race and lineage do not distinguish people.

Logicboy03: The muslims at that time were all Arabs

"all" ? logicboy, you're either ignorant or you're a shameless liar.

Logicboy03: Jizya

Fight those who believe not....

i suspect you know better, but:
"those who believe not" and "people of the book" are not racial groupings.

Logicboy03: You are the best nation...

"you" refers to "muslims" period. black, white, yellow, and brown.