₦airaland Forum

Nigeria shall be great again

Arresting her is not an issue here. We know the imposter is not Buhari's wife.

Fayose digs his grave beyond six feets. He is killing his political career the more he answers and throws allegation around.

Na to jejely tell my boss that her money is not safe with the bank anymore as they aid laundering and could possibly finance terrorism. A bank that laundered money and finance politician is not a safe place to keep money.

I did it with Sterling Bank. . .and will do it now with Zenith bank. - 1 customer tomorrow.

Tell that to the court on Monday

Wish Aisha Buhari, the wife of the President can sue Fayose for Libel

The Immunity clause covers the President and Governor from prosecution and not investigation. Fayose's account was closed under investigation. You wouldnt want him to move money out and stall investigation.

On the other note, Adamawa state Account under governor Nyako was CLOSED during an investigation process during the reign of Jonathan.

Smiles return to the face of old pensioners

LadyExcellency:
There is dignity in Labour and a Labourer deserves his/her wage

The Ministry did not owe everyone on their payroll salary or wages. The Minister made it clear that they are only owed June salary which is not yet due.

What the workers are fighting for is extra cut. Payment of this cuts is illegal as it is not appropriated for in the ministry budget.

If they are not ready to work, they should resign and move elsewhere. I believe their position will be filled within some weeks by peple who will collect payment for the job done only.

Aisha and her Children should come together and sue Fayose for libel and defamation.

Can Mrs Aisha Buhari please sue Fayose.

Someone need to put a stop to his madness. He thinks he is opposing the president but ignorantly digging pit where he will be buried. President Buhari should come in and protect his family. He belongs to his family and has every right to protect his family from any attack just like his responsibility to protect Nigerians. If Fayose can not restrict politics to government affair and policy, Buhari should sue his a s s.

dblackninja:
Chai! Alright I believe you have learnt something

I wish Rey can learn like you do.

dblackninja:
Which part of your definition is broad? Or are you using my own definition??
You said:' "This is why another dictionary define religion as an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods"

I defined Religion as bond between man and the Sacred.

Now, let me help you fuse the above definition into the other one you draw here.

What is the bond? The institution or system which is the foundation of belief, ceremonies and rules.

What is the Sacred? God or whatever. . ..

If religion is the bond between man and the sacred; it is the samething as defining religion as a system of belief, ceremony and rules (bond) used for worship (man does) a God (sacred).

We dont have problem here.

dblackninja:
And I said it You are now using my definition as your own. You were the one asking me whether football is a religion and I replied.
https://www.nairaland.com/1412636/non-christian-chatbox-sticky/144#46438363
Macof come and see what your senior brother is doing.
Chai! Chai! There is Orishaooo! There is Orishaooo!!

Now you wanna use it to buttress your own point
It only shows that what I was teaching was sinking but you are just adamant in other to win (don't worry, I'll still find that trophy).

I was the one that questioned if devotion for football team is a religion https://www.nairaland.com/1412636/non-christian-chatbox-sticky/144#46436668

lol

dblackninja:
Now since I've seen that you learn quickly but forget easily (or maybe you're doing that on purpose), let me give you some well deserved definitions of spirituality.

Spirituality
1.The quality or state of being spiritual--spiritual in the sense of: (a)Of or pertaining to the spirit or the soul.
(b)Of or pertaining to spirits; supernatural.
(C)Of or pertaining to God or a place of worship; sacred.
This (c) now leads us to the second and equally important definition of spirituality.
2. Appreciation for religious values.

Edit: Saw a site that gave a detailed explanation to spirituality better than mine. Do well to visit it
http://matadornetwork.com/bnt/what-is-spirituality/

The site is superb. It support my argument

dblackninja:
And you extricated yours from religion! I know why I gave that definition. It doesn't mean I don't know what you were talking about, that's why I gave room for other definitions of it by saying there's no single, widely accepted definition of spirituality. I just wanna help you widen your perspective because I know you have a war against religion (not even knowing that you're still deep rooted in religion). My definition of spirituality still stand till tomorrow no matter your opinion of it. All you need to do is widen your perspective.

You are even admitting your definition is one sided. So why did you raise alarm that I rejected flawed definition?

dblackninja:
If we haven't reached a common ground then why am I seeing religion all over your post above?
Why not say Non-theistic spirituality? You know all these yet you're still arguing blindly. You can still go back some pages and find the 2 definitions of religion I gave you.

You defined religion as the belief in God. That is wrong as that statement is a definition for Theism. There is a wide difference between theism and religion. One can choose to believe in God without being religious. Another can be religious without believing in God. These are two different grounds. You need to come out clean.

One need to go back to the root; etymology of a word before one can arrive at the actual meaning of it.

Religion originates from the latin word "Religare", which means "to bind". Therefore, from it root meaning, religion can be define as the bond between man and the sacred.

My definition is broad and cut across many angles. Meanwhile, the other definitions you provided are too narrow, exclude many belief systems. They are too vague and ambiguous.

Ex...Football is a religion. It does not entail belief, not to talk of beief in one non-existing God. But football can be sacred to fans. There can be some piety/relious devotion to football player. All in all, this definition applies to all dimension of religion.

dblackninja:
Spirituality is about appreciation for religious values

Break Spirituality down etymologically and help us with how you arrive at the definition above.

dblackninja:
I thought we are already done with religion where I gave you 2 widely accepted definition of it and you at last accepted the term. It seems like it's this Buddhism that you just got hold of since we started discussing about spirituality that is making you change your perspective. Tell me how does Buddhism preclude from both definitions of religion that I gave you?
Hmmm!

Buddhism is very popular and I knew you will be familiar with it than Yoruba spirituality.

Your definition of Spirituality is one sided. You cut it from religion perspective. This angle is diluted, corrupted and irrelevant in this debate. Note the word especially in your definition. Especially is used to single out one person, thing, or situation over all others.

Even from the water and Gulder analogy, one know water can be defined as a liquid substance esp in Gulder. But does it end there? Nope. Does this give real picture of what water is? Nope. So why cant we go above conditionality and picture a term in it original form?

The words "esp in religion" throws your definition of spirituality out of the window. There lies critical loophole.

On a little way further, where we have spirituality (feeling of awe) of atheism. There are lot of atheists out there who have confessed they feel connected with natural world. Logicboy in his days agreed to spirituality in atheism. He is connected to music and art world. This does not make them religious but spiritual. Here is another loophole.

Therre are lot more but thes two should make my rejection understandable.

On religion, we have not make a clear ground. W only agreed on worship. . . We have lot of religion which do not have room for God. They are called Non-theistic religion. God are not rule out but are basically not revognised. Like in Buddhism and Taosim. They tend to be more spiritual than been religious. I only wish you can come forward with a better definition, better argument and rebut my own position.

Samething can be dig out from Aborisha. Orisha are gods but not necessarily supernatural beings. Divinity could be the best translation of Orisha. Orisha can mean selected consciousness. Why we tend to know oursleves and connect with other connect with other Consciousness, this is spirituality - connectedness in ONENESS.

Spirituality is about connection.

Religion is about binding.

dblackninja:
Hmmm do you know the problem you normally have? You only accept a definition that suits you and then turn a blind eye to other connotations of the same word.
Spirituality also relates to religion whereby you'll be talking about the supernatural, spirits, God, sacred places etc. Like I said before, there's no single, widely accepted definition of spirituality. It is a broad concept.

If you still go by the opinion that spirituality has nothing to do with religion, then you are wrong sir.

Your wishes and opinion have no relevance here.

The point we were arguing is that religion and spirituality are different things. Even though religion adopt some spiritual act, spirituality stands on it own. I even used a water and gulder analogy. There is always a tasteless, colorless, odourless and pure spirituality. This stand above religion.

You aint making sense when you defined religion as believe in God or some crappy supernaturals controlling power. Your definition is not acceptable when there are facts that some religion do not have room for believe in God or supernaturals.

I did not simply reject your definition. I found some loopholes therein and throw it back at you. The reason I dont buy most definitions from people is because what they submit is incomplete, one sided and fallacious. How do you want me to accept a definition from religious perspective? How do you expect me to accept a definition of religion that holds that it is a believe in God when religion like Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism and many imperial cults do not recognise the existence of God?

Wishes can never drive your point. Come forward with strong rebuttal if you have any problem with my submission.

Reyginus:
We worship for a purpose. When we worship a nature we belief(by deism) is not conscious of our worship doesn't that bring us a gap closer to schizophrenia?

If I believe that water is the urstuff or the uncaused cause that caused it all, and also that it's no longer active, does it make any sense looking into water and exclaim:'How beautiful and sweet you are'?

We know our consciousness states as Conscious, Subconscious and Unconscious. If whatever Deism recognizes as that which exists but have no effect on the world is conscious and alive he must exhibit any of the above and have effect on the world. But it won't because deism says it doesn't interfere with the world.

If doesn't interfere with the world then isn't prayers or worship to it's properties something different from Deism? Why? Because like you put, your Orishas are have panpsychism. Isn't it so?

Refer here https://www.nairaland.com/2520043/what-makes-god-god .

Lot of your questions are treated there

Reyginus:
You have a business with making sure I understand how. Isn't that so?

Are you going to pay me? I need money o.

Supernatural is a natural unexplainable phenomenon.

My life is a natural unexplanable phenomenon.

Do the math

Reyginus:
If I sound incomprehensible it's because the matter is become incomprehensible. We can reduce it. You lead the way.

Start with this
http://mysticcurio.tripod.com/orisha.htm

Reyginus:
Forces? Elements? From You(Orisha) or outside You(Orisha)?

You are not making sense again. This has become a mockery.

Start by understanding what an Orisha is. Tell me can talk

How much do you supply 30ltrs keg of Palm oil?

Where is your supply base?

Jow many kegs can you supply?

Reyginus:
Pardon the method I'd employ here but you are free to examine it. You can puncture it and tell me why it shouldn't cone up, why it changes or whatever point or loophole you can spot in it.

An Adjective is nothing. It cannot stand on its own. An Adjective cannot exist on its own. A noun can exist on its own. Blue can't exist on its own. White too can't. These adjectives are dependent on Nouns to make any literal or logical sense.

YOU exist together with Orisha as a Supernatural. I am wrong. You are Orisha and a Supernatural. But then supernaturals in the adjectival form need a focal point, a noun, a base to sit and YOU(Orisha) by being Supernatural too(in adjectival form) need something to make meaning.

Am I missing it? If yes, what then is the basis for which or rather the basics for which an Orisha(You) stand? If Orisha is always becoming(note adjective) can we then say that it ever really is? If yes, in what way?

Guy we are not in an english class. I am a supernatural being.

Simple

Reyginus:
It's your mind working tricks on you with what you fed it. I don't remember or see framing the above question with a Religious idea tied to it. No sign of it. Why Christian? Why not Islamic?

Are you not a christian?

Reyginus:
You have to start seeing everything here as Products of your revelation. I question everything. And when a thing sounds religious-like you must also learn that it mustn't be Christian.

I thought you are a christian

Reyginus:
To our problem. If there's nothing like God worship in deism, which I accept, but there's a worship to your Orisha, which you've shown, what sort of worship can one then have for the Universe (the sort you have) that would make their Position Deistic?

There is veneration of nature in Deism.

Feeling of awe nko?

Acknowledging worth of natural environment?

Never knew there is a rule in deism that stop one from acknowledging the worth of the beautiful nature.

For your info, Orisha are mostly natural substances. They are Orisha because we believe that everything is conscious and alive. This make the Yoruba people Panpsychist.

The Orisha worship or spritual practice is a way of relating with the consciousness of nature.

Reyginus:
Tap into what? You are both Folykaze and Orisha are you not? What spiritual are you now tapping into or you call this higher consciousness Spiritual?

Tapping spiritual forces and elements

Reyginus:
I don't think it has anything to do with my affiliation or Religion. With the Journey I've been on so far I think I can't call myself a Christian. I cannot be held back by something that has no hold on me in the first place.

You are seeing things from the monotheistic perspective or let me say western worldview.

This will only lead you astray. You are pushing an agenda or driving toward a point. You really dont want to know. This is why you see me defending and throwing away all your points.

Reyginus:
As I type now, I sit beside a Yoruba friend who gives me lecture on what some of these terms really means. On Eledumare, he told me it's no mental construct. That the Yoruba traditional practises are more pantheistic than Desitic. He sees no desim in any of it. That's an aside.

the guy is right to some extent. You can come up with anything from Yoruba spiritual practice. You can come up with philosophy. You can come up with culture. You can come up with spirituality. This has to do from the angle you coming from. And no matter what, you will arrive at the same point.

This cannot be said of coming from the western worldview angle. You will always arrive at the wrong side.

I have personally ask this question. What concept of God does Eledumare falls. I decided not to ask here because most who are vast about Yoruba spiritual practise are no longer on this forum. While some others are not visiting freqently again. So I need to look for my answers elsewhere.

Eledumare is the Supreme deity in Yoruba pantheon.

In Monotheism, he falls in here. Eledumare is Olorun. We have only one Olorun. Every other Gods are Orisha.

In Polytheism, he falls in too. We have 401 Irunmoles headed by Eledumare. There are other lesser avatars, hero, spiritual beings that fall below these 401 irunmole which are been worship.

In Deism, Eledumare falls in. He/it does not interfare in the physical activities. No one pray to him/it. There is no dedicated Shrine and there is this believe that he has set everything in motion.

In Pantheism, he falls in here again. Within the body of Eledumare, all things, both abstract and concrete, are cells. Each and every animal, vegetable, mineral, thought, feeling, idea, emotion and concepth as its own ashe (energy) and therefore contributes to the whole that is Eledumare. An Orisha is a selected consciousness within the great consciousness known as Olorun.

There is also another concept that talks about a God handling control of the world in the hand of lesser Gods.

All these make sense. It just depend on the angle you are coming from.

Reyginus:
There's a reason lawyers worship our judges. There's a reason the Yoruba children worship their parents. There's a reason the Yorubas worship their kings or anything. When you say you are Orisha and you worship it why exactly do you worship yourself? Who do you sacrifice to?

We worship something by giving worth to it.

Sacrfice simply mean Nourishment.

Abimbola is a renowed Babalawo. He said in his book Ebo is an exchange (paroparo). You give something tangible to someone or something and receive your expectations.

I am an Orisha because I have Ori and worth.

How effective this things are. . .I dont understand and cant really explain.

Reyginus:
In which of the senses are a A Supernatural? The Adjective or the Noun form?

Adjective

Reyginus:
So why the worship if it's deism?

No one worship Eledumare.

Worship does not make something religion. Worship simple mean acknowledging the worth of something or someone. I worship my dad and mum not because I see them as superhuman but that is how I was trained to show respect to them.

One friend is an Orisha. Do you think we worship our friends by taking Ebo to them? No. We are only giving respect and value to their companionship.

My mouth is an Orisha call Olubobotiribo. Does this mean my mouth is a super being? No.

Part of the bodies are sacred to the Yoruba people. The heart, the big toe, the chest and hands. . .they do give high value to this things not because they are superhuman.

Why think you are becoming dumb thinking worship is all about serving one imaginary God in a dedicated Church

Reyginus:
Why the rituals for Orisha then? And why exactly should I accept your idea of Orisha as against Wikipedia's?

Tapping into the spiritual

Reyginus:
This is Google's definition of Supernatural.

Adjective

(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

Noun

manifestations or events considered to be of
supernatural origin, such as ghosts.

I mean the above. Are you supernatural in any of these categories?

Yes I am.

The mystery of my life cannot be explained scientifically.

Even if the breathe is oxygen and it is everywhere, why do people still die?

No explanation. I am superfolykaze

Reyginus:
My question is why exactly is the worship done? Why exactly do you prepare your akara for Yourself/POrisha? Sacrifice to who?

the akara thing is tradition not ritual.

I will like to know if you are Yoruba or understand Yoruba traditional pratices that much. The point I want to bring out here is that you are seeing things from the Christian angle which makes you appear silly.

Religion in Yoruba is Esin.

Worship in Yoruba is Ijosin. No Yoruba person have ever claim to "josin" any Orisha. It is not done.

Yoruba people "bo" Orisha. This is why we are called Aborisha and not Ajosinrisha. "bo" in Yoruba mean veneration and also mean nourishment.

I can bo Aja "feed my dog". Bo Ogun "venerate Ogun". No one Josin Orisha.

Going by the definition of worship which is gotten from worthy-ship and mean giving worth those who deverse it. Yoruba people worship anything. We worship our parents. We worship kings, lil children and the world around us. That is simply cultural value and does not mean we are supernatural beings.

I think lawyers worship Judges in the temple of justice. Why aint you seeing that act of worship as religion?
By definition, worship

Reyginus:
Why the rituals for Orisha then? And why exactly should I accept your idea of Orisha as against Wikipedia's?

When you born twins, they are Orisha. You prepare a sacrifice with bean cake and pap. People eat it and not some invicible deity.

Reyginus:
So why the worship if it's deism?

Have you seen somewhere Eledumare is being worshipped?

We dont worship Eledumare.

There is no dedicated Shrine or temple for Eledumare.