₦airaland Forum

Reyginus:
Simple question. Is Orisha a Supernatural?

I need clarification.

What is supernatural?

I am an Orisha. . .am I supernatural?

Reyginus:
Lol. I've seen things today. Deism is simply the believe in a God that doesn't interfere with the universe. So how is this the same thing when I worship or venerate Orisha?

Eledumare does not interfare with the world

Reyginus:
Is this deism?

Yes

Reyginus:
Deism? With all that worship? Or is it meditation for enlightenment? But now your brother says this God is not real but only a kind of raising of our consciousness, can it still be deism?

As in, a belief that raising my consciousness to the highest or higher level of awareness is a belief in a supreme God that doesn't even interfere in my daily affair?

Eledumare does not interfare in the daily affair of anyone.

You have your own divinity in Ori. That is what you engage everyday.

Everything has been set in motion by Eledumare and cares not if you are tormented, you have the capacity to free yourself.. . .that is if you engage your sense

Reyginus:
Lol. I understand with the Buddha reference but then why should I believe your version? Does Orisha has Supernatural Powers?

how do you define supernatural??

Guy you need to start reading up the philosophy of Ori. Get some books.

Reyginus:
Iseele? No longer Orisha? Lol. I'm hanging on Orisha before we begin another round of Twisting. We are getting somewhere. This is the definition of Religion according to Wikipedia:

' the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods'

This definition not making when impersonal Gods are component of a religion. E.g tao.

Reyginus:
And this is the definition of Orisha by Wikipedia:

'An orisha (spelled orichá or orixá in Latin America) is a god that reflects one of the manifestations of the Supreme God/ the All Father (Eledumare, Olorun, Olofi) in Yoruba religion. There are a total of 401 orishas'

Orisha is consciousness.

The inner personality.

That we call it God does not make it god in Chirstian sense. Orisha is like buddha.

You see it as God, your headache. I see it as spark of consciousness.

Reyginus:
Are the definitions above wrong? If they are not wrong how then is your Orisha worship not a Religion? And don't try to sneak in that Iseele like you are trying to do. My argument is on Orisha. Don't confuse yourself. Honesty is a virtue.

Technically wrong sir

Reyginus:
Lol. Such mischief. I don't need all these irrelevancies. Is Orisha a Religion is the question? Let me help you with the definition of Religion:

the belief in and worship of a superhuman
controlling power, especially a personal God
or gods.

Orisha is not a religion.

Your definition of religion is incomplete. There are religion in the world who do not believe in personal God. Taoism, zen buddhism and lot more.

I am saying it in an umpteen time. Iseese is spirituality and not a religion

macof:
folykaze abeg how can this boy be helped from his cognitive problems?


you are telling me what I've been telling you @ emboldened.

lemme give you another analogy. ..

Fanta is liquid but Liquid is not Fanta

Belief: A feeling that something is true/exists
Dogma: a belief held by a group or organization which others are expected to accept without argument

I swear if you still come back to tackle this issue of belief and dogma, you need to go for therapy

The guy na die. I thought he is an intelligent person. He fall my hand like kilode?

This guy claimed Iseese was founded. Founded for a purpose which could be religious, social or educational.

I feel like slapping sense into his head when I got to "founded". Founded by who?

He thinks Iseese is like Christianity and Islam that have a founder.

He is arguing like a baby.

Reyginus:
Anyhow you want it. You know I can tell you backward means forward and you'd have no option than to accept it. I don't have to show it logically. Lol.

Movement sa matter

Reyginus:
Lol. So heaven and hell make things Religious? Smh. Your worship is divine and has beliefs but it's not a Religion. You need self examination. Or better still ask Orisha for the gift of self disgust.

Your problem now is divinity?

Let me for the sake of other readers address that.

I will employ you to read from this webpage on what spirituality is . http://m.dummies.com/how-to/content/exploring-the-meaning-of-spirituality.html

Now, on divinity, dictionary put it meaning as a state of being godlike or divine.

From the definition, you should be able to see that divinity is not an entity but a state of the mind which can be experienced.

What is godlike?

Godlike is a evolved level where a person transcend beyond materiality, worldvie and is capable of seeing reality as it and not what the mind create it to look like.


A Godlike person connects and relate with his inner self. Evolve outside the material world, experience reality in it purity, listen to his intuition and commune with Iponri.

This level of experience is godlike.

A spiritual person has an immediate experience of the divine or of some higher power. To achieve this, they have to connect with their inner self.

Spirituality brings one to that state of being divine.

Iseese brings you to the state of being divine.

Religion throws one in mental bondage.

Reyginus:
And it's not an established Practise? Is it not founded for purpose, whether social, educational? I'm done pretending there's sense behind these statements.

Educational what? Iseese is not school or established for educational purposes.

Social? You think it is party things? It is more personal.

Religious purposes? We no get heaven or hell.

What else do you want to say?

Reyginus:
Better for you. You better remain stagnated than flow backwards.

I wish I can push back the hand of time.

Call it backward. I like that

Reyginus:
Another distraction. How did Iseese become Orisha?

Orisha worhip is Iseese.

Reyginus:
I wish you same too. I'm not ready to pretend something illogical makes sense.

I hate stagnation. Just shift abeg.

Have been repeating same thing, answering same question all long.

Make I rest abeg Rey

Reyginus:
English is a really a problem here. What's an institution? Lol. Let me answer before he twists it.

Wikipedia where are thou:

'1. an organization founded for a religious,
educational, professional, or social
purpose.

2. an established law or practice.

3. the action of instituting something'

So your orisha worship or whatever you call it is still not an Institution

Mr, show me how Iseese is an institution.

Reyginus:
So how then is your practise not Religion?

I am not ready to go in an endless circle with ya.

You can enjoy your own ride by yasef

dblackninja:
Did I detect yeees? Oya take am...Eeh where my cup? No worry, will provide another one chaa.

was souting yeeeeee. I expected you to know all these.

dblackninja:
To borrow your line I'll ask, how can you relate that to Zen Buddhists

The essential element of Zen Buddhism is found in its name, for Zen means meditation. The essence of Zen Buddhism is achieving enlightenment by seeing one's original mind (or original nature) directly; without the intervention of the intellect, monk or book. This implies that all human beings are Buddha, and that all they have to do is to discover that truth for themselves.

This relates with spirituality as it is the search for the vital principle of being.

Aborisha are more spiritual just like Zen. The spark of human consciousness is called Ori. It is called Buddha in buddhism. In Yoruba, the essence of life is tied and can be sorted out with the help of Ori. . .the inner self.

The quest is, how can you identify your inner self?

What does your Ori inu (inner self) tells about your life outside? (purpose or essence of existence).

Every other problem can be solved easy when you connect with your inner self.

This is what spirituality is all about. It has nothing to do with religion and your god garbage.

In spirituality, there is a self. We call it Ori. Japanese call it Buddha. Ori and Buddha also translate to God or divinity but not in a monotheistic sense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ori_(Yoruba)

In religion, human are selfless puppets. We are under the watch of one non-existing God who control us through hs managers.

To know your self is a task and if you succeed then you will become saint.

dblackninja:
Well am exausted now will modify later.

Pele tie

Reyginus:
Another attempt at deception. What's a dogma?

I do not remember telling you there is a problem with the definition you provided for the word "dogma".

You are supposed to tel us how belief equals dogma

Reyginus:
Lol. English Language problem again. What's a dogma? Does Orisha relates to the divine? A simple Yes will redeem your integrity.

How many times do you want to ask this same non-relevant question?

Reyginus:
I prefer Orisha who's name we are about.

Orisha is not God ni?

dblackninja:
Do you actually know that since we started this discussion that you haven't answered a single question of mine?
How can you help tear it down when you haven't told me how you came about your claim that Zen Buddhists are not religious but spiritual?? This is not the folykaze that I discussed with before. If you want to be triumphant in this one just tell me and I'll willingly award the trophy to you

Yeeeeee!

Who are you? What is your original moniker pls?

Let me quickly come in, Spirituality is a state of being spiritual.

Spiritual

. . .Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not material or supernatural.

Spirit

not as in ghosts, but as in the essence of being human - your soul or your inner life. A spirit is vital principle or essence of being.

Putting the particles together, Spirituality can be defined as any kind of practical activity through which a person seeks meaning, purpose and essence of their existence and environment.

Some may find out that their spiritual life is linked to association with a church, mosque, temple or synagogue. Some may pray or find comfort in a personal relationship with God or a higher power. Still others seek meaning through their connections to natural world or art.

Spiritual path is about question our being, finding answers about our existence, purpose in life, why we are suffering and philosophy of life generally.

Now, let me bring it down to difference between religion and spirituality.

In Spirituality, one is concern about the vital principle. In religion, it is all about faith and belief.

In spirituality, the questions are: where do I personally find meaning, connection, and value. In religion, the questions are: what is true and right?

Religion is for those who are in. . .those outside are sidelined. Spirituality is about connectedness putting everything into one basket called Ultimate.

Religion creates many world (sect and doctrines), Spirituality creates a united world.

Religion creates fear and hope for blissful enjoyment, Spirituality create experience and eimination of burden.

Religion is founded. Spirituality is inbuilt.

Religion contain rules and regulation. Spirituality is about open mindness.

Now tell sir, do you understand Spirituality now and it differences with religion? Any question?

dblackninja:
Mmmm *nodes* okay
Well I asked of yours because you rejected or are you telling me in another sense that you have accepted it?

You've been pushing down Zen Buddhists down my throat, how sure are you that I've even heard the word, or knew what they practice? How did you arrive at the point that they are not religious but spiritual??

Google no dey?

Quickly read it up online.

I have not accept your definition, I want to help you tear it down.

Are you accepting your incapability to align your sourced definition with Zen buddhism or "SBNR"?

dblackninja:
Of course a simple definition will suffice so that I can see how you came about that statement. Leave the fact that I demarcated the post. Am actually asking the same thing in both of them.


You know before this can become healthy, we have to establish some bases first. I have given my definition of spirituality with the sources which you outrightly rejected, yet failed to give yours..isn't that awkward?

Please give me your own definition even if na ojukokoro one and you're the endtime authority, just write am send. Even if you wanna use pen, just write am down snap and send.
From there we can actually know how you wanna link or unlink spirituality from religion.

chai. What has my definition got to do here? We are still analyzing your sourced definition.

So you cant link your sourced spirituality definition to Zen buddhism?

If you define spirituality as appreciation of religion value; and Zen Buddhists who are not religious but more spiritual have no foot in your "defined spirituality", isnt that enough to accept that your definition is inaccurate and should be thrown into trash bin?

dblackninja:
You're still dancing around the same statement without telling me how you came to that conclusion.

What path to my conclusion are you looking out for? Aint people spiritual without being religious? That tells you there is fence between religion and spirituality.

Now that I am asking because you seem confused, tell us what you think spirituality is.

And if that piety crap you sourced out is what you think is right, apply it to a state of being spiritual but not religious.

dblackninja:
Am not evading your question because I know I asked you a question first. I have defined religion..have give the sources (pictorial and link). I asked you for your own definition and source...the 3rd time now

Heaven help those who help themselves.

Pls help by trying to align or apply your sourced definition with people who are "spiritual but not religious".

I have made example using Zen buddhists who do not believe in God, supernatural or any divine being controlling power and are in no way religious but are very SPIRITUAL.

If you define religion as a believe in god or group of god (this is even wrong as it is definition for theism),

and define spirituality as the appreciation of religion value,

what then is the correlation between the Zen buddhists and the definition you have there?

Zen buddhists do not believe in god or group of gods.

Zen buddhist then can be regard as non religious.

Zen buddhist are rich in spirituality.

But your definition of spirituality does not apply to them.

So dear, you can either apply your definition with Zens spirituality or try to cover the larger picture in a new definition.

Where are you turning to?

dblackninja:
Of course I know that but it doesn't yet answer your claim.

Religion contain some form of spirituality but spirituality in it purity has nothing to do with religion.

Let me bring Zen Buddhist here. They are not religious. They dont believe in God or supernaturals. They dont congregage to worship any deity. But they are spiritual.

dblackninja:
You know it's a foreign word and the dictionary helps us to understand foreign words.

You haven't helped me yet. I asked for your own definition of spirituality and your source

Stop evading my question.

You are convinced with your sourced definition that spirituality is rope with religion. And I am asking you to apply your sourced definition with people who are spiritual but not religious. How does your definition applies to Zen Buddhist who does not practice religion but are more spiritual.

dblackninja:
Who told you that?

Gulder contain water but water is not samething as Gulder. Copy that?

dblackninja:
Is Advanced Oxford Learner's Dictionary not reliable?
What of mine that I snapped? Not reliable also?
Spirituality means: appreciation for religious values.
You can also give your own definition and source

Chai.

This is the reason I dont buy definitions from the dictionary. It is usually one sided and do not capture entirely the real picture.


Let me help you to some lenght. There are some folks who are spiritual but not religious https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_but_not_religious . Can you tell us how your definition applies to someone that is not religious or belong to any religion?

dblackninja:
Hahaha I expected this that's why I was laughing after presenting that definition. Well sprituality has no single, widely agreed definition. It connotes a lot of things. Advanced OLD defines it as:

spirituality noun
BrE /ˌspɪrɪtʃuˈæləti/ ; NAmE /ˌspɪrɪtʃuˈæləti/ [uncountable]
the quality of being concerned with religion or the human spirit. http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/spirituality

For my own definition, check the image below

Religion adopt some form of spirituality. But spirituality in it purest form have nothing to do with religion.

So come clean and stop looking for non reliable onlice dico for definitions that suit your agenda.

What is spirituality?

dblackninja:
You guys too like this orisha Maybe one of you can produce a video of the worship and send to us. Would love to see it. You really want to exempt it from religion..okay it's other idol worshippers that are religious if am to hold you to your statement.
Anyway spirituality can be said to be appreciation for religious values

Can you put reference to your definition or you just feel like cooking things up here?

dblackninja:
K. Hope you won't play [devil's] advocate anymore lol.

Charge Rey to stop lying around.

dblackninja:
Yeah we agree that it's not an institution as you have explained what it means and have also attested that Aborishas are religious. [because orisha is an element of worship in a religion]

You agree that it is not an institution but thinks any act of worship is a religion.

Can you pls define spirituality? And pls extend the ground with the differences between spirituality and religion. Let see how you will dig this out.

dblackninja:
So the trend now is, dogma is a belief and belief not a dogma discuss? Lol.

leave that to mac and rey. They will sort it.

Reyginus:
Lol. So how is his definition and description of Orisha escape the term Religion?

Orisha is not an institution set aside with rules, code, ethics, doctrine and dogma.

Reyginus:
Says a man who's willing to defend that a thing that looks and acts like a thing is not the thing.

May the Gods help me through

Reyginus:
How am I twisting it? Didn't he accept that Orisha relates to the divine? Didn't he say Orisha is a belief? But then I have to agree that even though his answers match religion it is not Religion. Is this the Logic of the ATR?

He didnt say belief is a dogma. What he said is that dogma is a belief.

He didnt say Orisha is an institution.

Keep the lies coming