₦airaland Forum

Xposed2020:
Let's learn to discuss without attributings violence to each other.
Because the evidences on the net are so damning.
All our deeds we shall account for them someday. Whoever kills an innocent soul, is as he has killed the whole of humanity, likewise he that saveth a soul.

That quote was whn islam started and Mohammed was. Peaceful. In his later years he started Jihad and killed several. All these are in your books. They are in the deeds of Mohammed. Just say the truth and stop sugar coating it

Xposed2020:
Was is Muslims that are fanning the flame of racism in America & Europe?
Hell No.
They are mostly Christians. But was that Jesus message?

Judge by the founders. Did Jesus own slaves did Mohammed own slaves? The followers of Jesus shld behave like Jesus followers of Mohammed shld behave like him. If Mohammed was peaceful his ppl shld be, but was mohammed a peaceful man?

Xposed2020:
. . . whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. . . (Qur'an 5:32)

Just as you have bad people in every tribe, country, religion (esp the pope you just denounced)so its universal.

I told you your prophet started peaceful then later went violent. Its a fact. Its in your books

Xposed2020:
But you will agree with me that Christians have killed more than Muslims can ever kill from historical facts & evidences.

Isolated cases of Muslims is attributed to Islam, while that of a Christian is not.
Was it Muslims that killed George Floyd or his Christian brothers?

Just cos a man is white does not mean he is a Christian. A Christian according to the bible is a born again disciple of Jesus.
So tell me was the police man born again? Again like i say judge the religion by its founders. The people following can make mistakes

Xposed2020:
This is the stereotyped doctrine we are talking about.
Read the Qur'an.
And come back let's discourse.

I have read the quran, I read a copy at a library

Xposed2020:
Read the Qur'an to understand, and not have a stereotyped mind.
I like you as a person though have never met you.
He was persecuted.

I have read the quran online and physically. I have read the hadiths too. All i am quoting are deeds by your prophet. If they were just words one could excuse mis-interpretation

Xposed2020:
Was that Jesus teaching?
Are you defending massacre done by Christians and opposed to those done by non Christians?

I told you the muslims attacked everyone and the crusades were there to stop them. Jesus never practiced or call anyone to kill. It was the roman catholic guys that led the crusades, if you see all the benefits the pope promised the guys that fought you will see its not found anywhere in the bible

Xposed2020:
This is what my Qur'an tells me;
"Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors (Qur'an 5:32).

So what of the part that tells to attack the Jews and Christians?
Mohammed was gentle at the start of his religion, he wanted followers and he even said everyone will goto heaven, when they asked him for a sign or miracle he did not have any to show. Later he turned violent, attacking his city and then attacking his neighbors

Xposed2020:
Jesus pbuh from the word go, was complicit by error or commission of all the violent acts in the Bible.

How can one exonerate Jesus pbuh as an accomplice from the heinous acts, genocide & crimes against humanity that one condemns Muslims & prophet Muhammad pbuh to have committed?

Remember Prophet Muhammad pbuh spent less than 100 years in his ministry while Jesus was right from Genesis till manna comes.

600 years of violence perpetrated in the name of Christianity before Islam coupled with Christian crusade and killings by Western Christians during slave trade, Evangelism, colonizations & conquest, invasions of different nations in the quest for dominance (Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Chile, Kosovo, Bosnia, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, etc.) Out ways any killing by any other religion other than Christians from now till manna comes.

So can we now have a fruitful discourse devoid a violence?

Violence is part of islam, its in your books, your prophet was violent. the crusades were a response to the jihads. It was a push back to stop the jihad.
Show me proof that Jesus killed anyone, give me a biblical refernce, and i will show you several by mohammed. Cruel killings that you have to wonder what sort of person he is. Splitting someone in half, driving nails into people's eyes

Xposed2020:
You see whenever a Muslim is having a discourse with a Christian & the Christian is not comfortable, the next thing to do is to introduced violence as the sole property of Muslims.
But no matter how one tries to explain that in Islam, self-defense was as a result of enemy attacks. For violence was the brain child of Jesus.
For 600yrs That Christianity was older than Islam you can imagine the calamity that befall non Christians.
Just recently, Hitler a Christian massacred "6 million" Jews.
Stalin of USSR also a Christian, committed genocide in which 15-20million people died.

Let us judge the religions by their founders, not the people who practice as they are fallible. do you agree?

Xposed2020:
Never accepted that

Ok, what if i show reference from your hadiths?

Xposed2020:
Ahaaaaa!
So when God does his will, why do you have problem?
But now you have seen that who ever must come to equity must come with clean hands.

Tell that to God

Xposed2020:
Am just quoting the Bible for you.

"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"
(1 Samuel 15:3)

I made the statement first, agree then i will explain the Amalikites for you

Xposed2020:
From Jesus' testimony, he was a violent "God" (Luke 22:36; Matthew 10:34).

So you agree with me that mohammed was a violent man, he even tempted one of his men to join in the jihad with blonde ladies

Xposed2020:
He did not spare Sodom & Gomorrah for exercising their civil rights & expressing their sexual orientation.

God made the law he is the creator and has every right to do as he wills, he did not create anyone with perverse sexual preferences. What is civil right when you are confronted with your creator?

Xposed2020:
Jesus wanted to murder moses because of ordinary circumcision when "he" knows baptism will overturn it later.

So you agree with me that Mo' killed lots of people!

Xposed2020:
Who does the leader of the Vatican speaks for?
Muslims or pagans?

roman catholics, they are do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Xposed2020:
So Jesus pbuh did ask them to kill?

But i know mohmmaed asked his guys to kill, he even promised them heaven with sex and wine, just to ginger them

Xposed2020:
So Jesus pbuh did ask them to kill?

The crusades were wrong, but it was a response to the jihad undertaken by the muslims. The muslims conquered spain, turkey, italy until the crusades pushed them back. All these countries did nothing, muslims just fought them to expand their religion, Also the pope does not speak for Christians

yanabasee1:
Dude, phone's phone.... Whether transsion or Hi-Tech....

Nigeria is yet to produce a pin....Until you can even assemble and couple finished products... you don't even have rights to criticize.... All you have to do is buy what you can afford....

Nigeria yet to produce a pin? You must be living in the 60s

Xposed2020:
Are you avoiding answering me?

What is the question, cos i know you ignored me also

Xposed2020:
Similar to Christian crusade that over 1.5million innocent souls were massacred.
Or Israel after 1948 and the six day surprise attack against its neighbors.
But in Islam the POW is treated with dignity unlike Christianity & Jewish wise.

the christian crusades were a response to the islamic jihads. The muslims killed and enslaved much more. They burnt libraries all over, in india, Persia etc

Xposed2020:
Prisoners of War just like in Abu ghraib prison or Guantanamo bay but then it was more humane than what western Christians do now.

So part of it was to enslave the people and choose the girls as sex slaves (mohammed did these by the way). Also the muslims initieated these wars, just cos the other peoples did not embrace islam. What kind of evangelism is that?

Xposed2020:
Tasfir means preaching.
It depends whether the preacher is a hardliners, moderate just like in Christianity.

So Ibn Kathir was a radical islamist? or he was narrating what happened during the time

Xposed2020:
So if you already believed something, why ask me?
My Questions haven't been answered.

Do not initiate the Salam to the Jews and Christians, and if you meet any of them in a road, force them to its narrowest alley.) This is why the Leader of the faithful `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, demanded his well-known conditions be met by the Christians, these conditions that ensured their continued humiliation, degradation and disgrace

How about this? This is also part of the pact

Xposed2020:
Jizya was paid for protection by non muslims and if any one does contrary to that, he will be held accountable for his deeds on the day of resurrection.
I was waiting for Qur'anic verses and you brought tafsir

So the tafsir is wrong right?

Xposed2020:
Jizya is a tax paid by non Muslims for protection in a Muslim state.
When non Muslims accepts Islam, they don't pay jizya but must fight when the state comes under attack as all Muslims must fight to defend the state.

You mean after the muslims do jihad against a place, they will now force people to pay tax for protection of their lives. That is after the muslims have taken some of the people as slaves and sex slaves

Xposed2020:
quote author=fortran12 post=90419456]
[b]I said people who believe in God went to Abraham's bossom until Jesus came. [/b]So after Jesus died and rose John 3 vs 16 is applicable

Please explain these two statements.

After Jesus rose you need him to get to heaven , before him no one entered heaven cos there was no sacrifice.

Xposed2020:
So if you already believed something, why ask me?
My Questions haven't been answered.

This is the reason for the Jizyah

Allah said, (until they pay the Jizyah), if they do not choose to embrace Islam, (with willing submission), in defeat and subservience, (and feel themselves subdued.), disgraced, humiliated and belittled. Therefore, Muslims are not allowed to honor the people of Dhimmah or elevate them above Muslims, for they are miserable, disgraced and humiliated. Muslim recorded from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet said, (Do not initiate the Salam to the Jews and Christians, and if you meet any of them in a road, force them to its narrowest alley.) This is why the Leader of the faithful `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, demanded his well-known conditions be met by the Christians, these conditions that ensured their continued humiliation, degradation and disgrace."

https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/9.28

Its to disgrace the people muslims attacked and took over their lands

Xposed2020:
Those before Abraham went where?

Before Abraham people went to paradise and not heaven where God is. An example is when the thief was on the cross and accepted Jesus. Jesus response was today you will be with me in paradise. It was after Jesus died and rose that access to heaven became a reality.

Xposed2020:
Jizya is a tax paid by non Muslims for protection in a Muslim state.
When non Muslims accepts Islam, they don't pay jizya but must fight when the state comes under attack as all Muslims must fight to defend the state.

That is not the purpose of the jizyah. The pact of umar says otherwise

Xposed2020:
That's good.
From Genesis to Crucification of Christ is how long approximately?
So, how do dead people now accept John 3:16?

I said people who believe in God went to Abraham's bossom until Jesus came. So after Jesus died and rose John 3 vs 16 is applicable