₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
You are one trying to claim reality is not real which makes whatever you say moot.

I never said anything about reality. I only said you said a bunch of things you have no way of knowing for sure

Celestialsword:
There's no need to leave, since the use of devices(laptops and mobile phones)are allowed.

But on a second thought,the examination looks like a test on students honestly and hardwork

If you fall for those freebies, you've failed the exam

Nope. It is just to have them do it the way it happens in real life. When you're given a project in real life they don't tell you not to consult people!

Celestialsword:
This is not a project,it's an indoor examination to be taken by students.

In an examination setting those things stated there are aberrations and not the norms.

Of course it is a project. A special 6-hour project meant to test performance under real life conditions

DeepSight:
You want me to provide a historical record regarding gravity? You surely are kidding. Try jumping off your roof tomorrow, it will be on record.

As regards your attachment -

All of that is unproven experimentation which ranks with all sorts of psychic claims everywhere. You still will not find a historical report saying that on such and such a day a psychic message was delivered from X to Y and that led to Z. You will only find that in the realms of speculation and conspiracy theory.

I am trying to teach you here: understand - the fact that anyone can produce a report of someone practicing juju is not the way Historical texts are written. Juju is simply not acknowledged as real even if it can be reported that someone practices it, you will not find a report saying that an airplane was verified brought down on X day by juju.

That all this is in a bid to classify the mythical aspects of the bible such as talking snakes and donkeys as actual history is tiresome.

Do you know of Homer's Ilad and do you regard all the events therein as history?

Let me try to help u further. Does prayer exist as a practice in the history of the world? Of course it does. That is proper to say. So it can be historically recorded that people pray.

However in an academic historical record, you will never see a statement such as - "The British by prayer defeated the Germans in the second world war, their prayers having been heard by heaven, from where magical armies assisted."

That can be anyone's belief but that is no historical record.

So what do you call this below? By what power did Constantine triumph? And if this is not history, what is it?

DeepSight:
You will find many historical events which record the activity of gravity and scientific work. That is the point. You will not find a record referring to magic as a historical event. You cannot for example, find a historical record saying that "On the 4th day of June 1914, the PM of Great Britain sent a declaration of war by telepathy to Germany, and thus started the second world war."

You are not in a primary school. I am really being patient here.

But you can't provide a single one but you want me to produce telepathy. And when I do you shift the goal post! The first shot below is from CIA

DeepSight:
Those are descriptions of religious beliefs not of historical events.

It's like googling about Juju or voodoo and sending me what you find about such practices and beliefs and then saying that such are actual events in history.

Let me help you. You need help..

So what you need to do is find a Historical Text which has been academically produced by Historians which says something like this -

"In the year 43 BCE, Julius Caesar was murdered by voodoo which was activated through the telepathy of Marcus Brutus, and so ended his Dictatorship, leading to the civil wars resulting in the emergence of the Empire."

That is what such being recorded as historical events would look like.

I hope you understand.

Why not find one that says

In the year 43 BCE, Julius Caesar was murdered by gravity which was activated through the science of Marcus Brutus, and so ended his Dictatorship, leading to the civil wars resulting in the emergence of the Empire."

DeepSight:
You said the Son is God.

If he was, he would know everything.
He said he doesn't know everything.
This simply means he is not God.

Secondly the Trinity actually teaches that all these parts are the same person. If they were indeed the same person, then again the son would know everything.

End of.

He is NOT the Father!!!! One of the Father's job is to know that date and hour. God Jesus doesn't concern himself with that

DeepSight:
You can't be helped.
There isn't telepathy in historical texts.
Just as there isn't magic in historical texts.
Just as there isn't Juju in historical texts.
Just are there aren't mermaids in historical texts.
Just as there aren't unicorns in historical texts.
Just as there aren't fairies in historical texts.

However if you look for research into any of these, descriptions of the lore of any of these, philosophical ideals of any of these, you will find plenty material.

That does not mean that historical texts record any such things as real.

Historians do not.

However I know already you can't grasp this.
I am convinced you are not alright.

I can't believe this! History texts with telepathy abound. See just some below

DeepSight:
These alone disqualify Jesus from being God since he said himself he does not know everything -
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father - MATT 24 V 36

End of debate, yet again.

See lack of understanding. This is why people keep arguing what they don't know.
"God" comprizes the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God knows everything. The Father has some functions that the son doesn't and vice versa. One of the Father's functions is knowledge of the day or hour

DeepSight:
You are giving me definitions of the term? Meaning and studies? Are you joking? I am wasting my time with you.
Next thing you will produce studies on magic and the definitions.

Here's what u said verbatim: Where have you seen telepathy in a history book please.

It turns out history books are full of telepathy!

DeepSight:
Where have you seen telepathy in a history book please.

See below

LordReed:
If I don't know then neither do you so again your argument is defeated.

I have not definitively said anythimg is false. You're the one saying things are false

Boomark:
You are having a wrong thought. You need to redirect your thoughts to the truth and not on man-made doctrine.

Show me at least one scripture that called God omniscient and what it means.

Please don't borrow any info from anywhere. Focus on the scripture.


How do fortune tellers know more than God? This one is not even an issue.

Jeremiah 1:5 is something like this:

Before you cook beans you know. If you want to use the beans to drink garri or fight pest, you know. Then you will send your word to that beans and tell it Your Will. Shikina. That's if you have powers.

I never even saw this until you just reposted it to FxMasterz. I have so many mentions, I always miss some, plus I don't think some appear on my mentions at all.
Now I've seen this, here's my answer to you:

The Bible consistently describes God as possessing infinite knowledge, which is the meaning of omniscient. Many verses highlight God's comprehensive knowledge and awareness of past, present, and future, as well as His deep understanding of all humans and their thoughts and actions:

*God knows everything:
Psalm 147:5 says, "Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit."
*God knows our thoughts and hearts:
Psalm 139:4 states, "Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O LORD, you know it altogether."
*God knows the future:
Isaiah 46:9-10 says, "declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things not yet done."
*God sees all:
1 John 3:20 states, "for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything."
*God is the source of wisdom and knowledge:
Job 28:24 says, "For he looks to the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens."
*No creature is hidden from God:
Hebrews 4:13 says, "And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account."
*God knows our needs before we ask:
Matthew 6:8 says, "For your heavenly Father knows what you need before you ask him."

These verses, among others, consistently point to God's all-encompassing knowledge (omnisciece)

DeepSight:
Because they dont contain the sort of supernatural fantasies I listed for one thing. They could be inaccurate, that's for sure, but show me one history text that mentions a talking snake, and I will drop the matter.

Talking in a sense akin to telepathy NOT literal talking

LordReed:
Here you come again with this nonsense of arguing with reality, shooting yourself in the foot.

I humbly submit you really don't know

Janosky:
God is not the son of himself

You just dey read the Bible upside down.

How can God have son when there is no mother? Did you think of that?

Janosky:

God commanded animal sacrifice in the past
Oga, did God command you to continue animal sacrifice?
God CHANGED that.


You go still dey shout say your God is Unchangeable CHANGER.
Don't mock JW's.
Abeg dey reason with your brain.

The question is, will they apologize to all the people whose lives they ruined or mitigated and families torn apart, and will they also henceforth stop saying it is God telling them things - because we all know God doesn't change like this!

DeepSight:
Alas, you have mistaken the Bible for a History Text Book.
It is full of a lot of myth, legends and Jewish lore / fantasies. Alot there was also borrowed from much older cultures and traditions mainly to the East.

How many of these do you consider events that we can take as history -

1. That a snake spoke to a woman in a Garden called Eden

2. That a donkey spoke to a prophet while on a journey

3. That angels slept with women to produce giants

4. That a man slept in the belly of a fish for three days

Do you regard these as historical events for which we can say, yes, we hold them true and we can use as evidence of truth of your claims?

How are you sure your history textbooks don't also contain myth, legends and lore? The Bible has NOTbeen proven false!

LordReed:
1. The so called prophecy in Isaiah linked to the Messiah was not written by the Prophet Isaiah.
2. There were no 3 Kings.
3. What Jesus purportedly said was not written by any first hand witness.
4. The Nicean Council was centuries later than the time of Jesus so it is irrelevant what the decided as they are not first hand witnesses.
5. Which other prophets are you talking about? They don't have names?
6. None of the apostles penned down what Jesus said as first hand witnesses.

You have provided nothing in the way evidence as all you said has been refuted.

How do you KNOW all this, and how do you KNOW what you read in most books are true? How are you sure some historical figures really existed? Why do you believe black holes, dark matter, trillions of galaxies, etc exist?

Gabrielshow24:
From the product of the internalization of your circumstances

When circumstancial facts and evidence are dismissed by you, then definitely any further engagement is futile.

Believe what you want to believe, even against reason, and I will believe in the coexistence of both systems! bye👋

Can you please elaborate?
Example: when Adam's brain decided to eat the fruit, could Adam have overridden it? If so, what is that thing he would have used to override it, and where is it located?

Gabrielshow24:
I didn't raise any question. You raised such in your bid to render the prayer of Paul useless. You posted that question and I have answered you scripturally, I even surmised that such should have been taught to you in Sunday school!

I won't indulge you any longer, as it will only be a waste of time. I have referred you to Godel's refutation if my biblical exemplification was not enough—Possibly, with your Church's Sunday school lessons.

Your dogmatic stance even against direct, or circumstantial facts is appalling and riddikulus!

In other words you don't know.
Can someone please help us answer this question:
Why does an all-good, all-powerful God allow evil?

gohf:
1. Scripture states God was coming to judge not die shed his blood for sins.

2. John the baptist never declared Jesus to be God. He declared Jesus to be the son of God stating that the one who sent John revealed it to him

3. God called Jesus is son, a product from him. If he were god like you claimed the truth would be God declaring that this was him in the flesh

4. Jesus never said he was the or any "long awaited" God. The things Jesus did were the things God has been doing through his servants but much more was done through his son Jesus Christ.

5. Jesus is God's son and not God the son, for there is only one true God, his father the Almighty creator of all.

6. Jesus did not raise himself from the dead, God did, God gave him the power to lay his life and take it up again. He could do nothing without God's power and permission.

7. Jesus being worshipped by God is by the deception of the devil, that brought in such corruption

8. Jesus is worshipped as our Lord, the Christ anointed by God, as commanded by God. Men have been worshipped as kings, as fathers etc

9&10 sound like things made up to make it up to 10

1. Isaiah 53 abd Psalm 22 foretold this

2. God can't have a son because there is no mother. So son here is not son as we think. Son means an offshoot of God, a "manifestion" of God which is also God

3. See numbe 2. Jesus is part of God. God!

4. Jesus said if you see him you've seen God, accepted worship unlike anyone else in the Bible, was after souls not money, said he was Alpha and Omega, said he'd come into people's hearts, etc

5. God can't have son without mother. "Son of God" can only somehow be God himself

6. When Jesus said "destroy this temple and I'll raise it in 3 days" Who did he say would raise it?

7. You're making God out to be totally powerless

8. No other person in the history of the world has come close to being like Jesus

9. This is very powerful. Yahweh would NEVER allow anyone worshipped with him or in his place unless he approves

10. Testimonies of Jesus as active in people's lives abound

gohf:
What does freewill mean to you?

If it means freedom to do whatever a person desires then isn't that more of an illusion than "freewill" as even if you believe you can fly while jumping off a mountain would you, meaning you are not free to fly.

Why not show us what and how you understand freewill is.

By the way Jesus said this in John.8.36, So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

Do not assumed that humans have some sort of freedom we are under the bondage of the flesh sin and death and only Jesus can give us freedom.

God did give us a choice to choose that freedom, John.3.16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

So it doesn't matter where a person is born or the kind of brainwashing they have undergone, if they choose to obey God and follow his son Jesus Christ they will be truly free and no more bond by those things you listed above, by their flesh and carnal reasonings and all.

Thanks for your response. Free will means you're the one responsible for the processes within your brain that led to a decision.
Example: when Adam's brain decided to eat the fruit, could Adam have overridden it? If so, that thing he would have used to override it is the reservoir of freewill

LordReed:
Eleventy billion wrong people are still wrong. Their vast numbers don't make them right.

Not with the way it happened with Jesus (over thousands of years and by unimpeachable people).
See a list of who has to be wrong:
*Isaiah and other prophets (prophets who were never wrong)
* John the Baptist
* The 3 kings who worshipped him as an infant
* Peter and other apostles
* Jesus himself who said he was the Alpha and Omega and the "I AM"
*The 300 bishops at Nicea who were almost unanimous
* Etc

Gabrielshow24:
You based your entire thesis on using pre-determined systems to disprove the existence of free will. When present circumstances defeat you already—that's intellectual dishonesty.

I acknowledged every single special pleading you could ever cook up under the set of choices under physical constraints but yet you have in no wise disproved that the complementary set, is not your own— The set of choices not affected by physical constraints.

This is my submission to you. If you both can't see the coexistence of both systems then you both are intellectually dishonest.

See how concise my statement was? Refute it concisely too, possibly with a single word:
Where would that your freewill come from??

Gabrielshow24:
The question, you asked me. I have answered. You brought up the concept of evil, along with the supposed lack of awareness of God to his disciples, along with the need of multitude of prayers. I have given you the biblical stance, and if you seek another. Kindly look up Godel's refutation using modal logic.

I won't continue another futile conversation with you. We won't agree and also circumstances have refuted you already! 😂

As for that nestorian, your partner in chief—The one that proposes Jesus an hybrid. I wish you both good luck.

You didn't answer anything or you'd have simply restated your answer. Here's the question you raised again:
Why does an all-good, all-powerful God allow evil?

Gabrielshow24:
😂So intriguing that you can see stubbornness elsewhere and you can also acknowledge "circumstantial evidence"😂.

Bro, your posits are very disjointed! The both of you are perfect for each other🤣. Good luck 🤞.

It is NOT stubbornness to state an obvious FACT - that if you were given different brain, genes, circumstances, and experiences (none of which you chose) you'd be a totally different person - and ALL (ALL!!!) your decisions will stem from that and therefore no space for freewill whatsoever.

It IS stubbornness to keep saying it is a lie without offering anything that refutes it.
It is also stubbornness to keep saying someone assigned attributes to God when he clearly didn't. When he infact wrote: "You can't know God by logic, reasoning, or attributes"!

DeepSight:
Obviously it has never occurred to you that it is possible to deliberately fulfill a prophecy if one is aware of it, or to deliberately claim that it was fulfilled, or even write the prophecy after the fulfillment. I say this generally of prophecies, not of your Jewish Lord in particular.

How do I deliberately fulfill a prophecy? Simple. I know of it. It says one will ride a donkey into Jerusalem. So I hire the donkey and ride in deliberately. Prophecy fulfilled.

Look, even if all of those things were true, no, I would not believe that any man is God. They would at best mean that he was a prophet or messenger from higher realms.

Because for me, God is not personal.

IT remains beyond all existence.

I guess it all depends on what we and this our reality actually are (vs what we think we are) and what God actually is. Suppose it turns out this is actually a family project and Jesus happens to be the only member of the family who agreed to debase himself and visit earth to remedy some fundamental errors? It could be anything and probably something beyond our wildest imagination.

As for prophecy, of course anything is possible but some things are highly unlikely - "God with us" was prophesied, "Prince of peace" was prophesied, "atonement for sins of the world" was prophesied, so were birth in Bethlehem, Mighty God, birth in a manger, etc. Why only Jesus in particular, who was not known for faking things? Why didn't any other person try to do same.
ANYTHING can be doubted but, like I said, in this world we go by preponderance of circumstantial evidence, not proof!

DeepSight:
Perhaps you dont know me. I have many years of setting out the arguments carefully. I have nothing to prove to merchants of illogic.

https://www.nairaland.com/1341464/anony-deep-sight-verse-verse#16582813

Those are just some biblical points - both sides.

But fundamentally Jesus is not God because he was, if he existed, just another man.
If you think his life was incredible fine. Many have had incredible lives.
Its also absurd worshipping your fellow man, dont you know.

God is transcendental, ineffable, unknowable. Its absurd to point to any man and call him God.

I cant proceed with you though, as you say things like "good is not good" and you set out lists and say you didnt.
Its impossible to discuss.

Even LordReed agreed that if everything said about Jesus in the Bible were proven true he'd also believe he is God (if he were open to such belief). LordReed!! LordReed who is beyond atheist and is igtheist!!

You can't know better than all the generations of people who foretold Jesus as God coming, worshipped him when he came, and still worshipping him over 2000 years later!

DeepSight:
Abeg I need a break from your kind of illogicality. I should have learnt the moment you started saying "Good does not mean Good."

As for that fella, he must be your twin.

It is very tiring trying to refute a cogent, intellectually honest statement (example, my post above).
Simple: you're in no position to say: "Jesus can't be God because..." Now, if another person claims to be God and it's only them saying it, etc, I can dismiss them as liars

Image123:
i have decided not to reply you for a minimum of one week. That's free will. Good morning.

That's ridiculously NOT freewill at all. That's a result of the life-long conditioning from birth that made you who you are. If you had different brain, genes, circumstances, and experiences (none of which you chose) you'd be a totally different person all together - and ALL (ALL!!!) your decisions will stem from that. No space for freewill whatsoever!