₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
As you wish.

You've lost that one. Leave that and tackle why
all-good, all-powerful God allows evil - something
Gabrielshow24 brought up like he has the definitive answer, then shied away when asked to present it!

DeepSight:
As you wish.

Jesus has to be God Son of God because people over centuries declared him so. So you can't say they came together and conspired to name him so. The three kings who worshipped him as an infant did not know Isaiah who prophesied God was coming, and neither knew Peter who confessed him Son of the living God, etc

DeepSight:
https://www.nairaland.com/8456831/why-jesus-definitely-god/53#136265661

Thats what you listed.
I dont have your energy, whatever you call them, attributes oh, events that will convince you that someone is God oh, blessings that show one is God oh, na you sabi.

You lost the argument because you didn't take time to read what I wrote in the OP.
How can I assign attributes to God when I wrote clearly: You can't know him by logic, reasoning, or attributes.

Image123:
Freewill doesn't involve choosing your kind of brain but ability and will to make decisions. You can decide to listen or not listen, that's free will.

There is no "ability and will to make decisions" without your brain. There is no "decide to listen or not listen" without your brain. It all ends with the brain, the brain and it's programming that you had no hand in.
If I had different brain, genes, circumstances, and experiences (none of which I chose) I'd be a totally different person all together - maybe Dangote or an armed robber, which I'd not have chosen. Please, where's freewill hiding in all that?

DeepSight:
I cant waste my time this morning on you. You even asked me to show you a man with all the events that you listed and that you will agree such a man is God.

What really causes you to do this? Are you alright? Seriously. Its very worrying. You might need help.

Ad hominem attack - sign of having lost an argument!
Again, MENTION ONE ATTRIBUTE I SAID GOD MUST HAVE!!!!

DeepSight:
Ressurections are not in the normal course on nature. Extra Ordinary Claims require extra ordinary proof. Same way if someone wrote that a woman turned into a cat, it would require extro ordinary proof. Not just it being said or written by some people - which it has been - many many many times over.

Stop denying you gave a list of attributes. You dont have the exclusive right. We too can list our own and nominate Buddha as God. Do you know how many prophecies surround the Buddhist culture?

Your existence is NOT in the normal course of nature. By all logical parameters you shouldn't exist outside my head, yet I believe you exist due to circumstantial evidence. So also black holes, dark matter, quantum mechanics, and a multitude of other things you read about and believe!

So mention one attribute I said God must have. I even said clearly you can't assign any attribute to Gid

Gabrielshow24:
I will leave that to the reader, since you can't see how😅.

😅Cop out.
Ill kindly let you save face

DeepSight:
Dont worry, I will notice all that happened to anyone I like, say that those things render that person God and leave it there.
I have noticed for instance that I am -

1. Conscious and
2. Mysterious and
3. Weird

I have concluded that I am God.
Bow down and worship.

Your list is meaningless.
Do you know what others can come up with?

You are talking about a man you cant even prove existed. Nor can prove ressurected. And adding so many meaningless things like his word is alive today. Are the words of Prophet Muhammad not alive? You even said a dove hung over his head as if you were there. And confidently creating lists of this and that that makes you believe.

Look, it still amounts to giving attributes to God. Once you say that because x, y, z happened to a man, then he is God, it means you know the attributes of God.

Worse than that, you demanded that I should show a man who same things happened to and you will believe. This simply means you know all that has to happen to a man for him to be God.

Ergo, you know the attributes of God.
A thing that you denied.

Wow! This is definition of STUBBORNNESS!!
Ok, I don't have foggiest idea who John is or even what he is like. People start saying John is coming in 200 hundred years, someone comes just before he comes to say John was indeed coming soon. John finally comes and says he was indeed John and was different from anybody else. John says you'd know he's John because his words would never pass away. 2000 years later people are still discoursing the coming of John and his words have never passed away.
WHAT ATTRIBUTE HAVE I ASSIGNED TO JOHN BY OBSERVING ALL THIS??
You keep asking for proof, what proof do you have that anything you read about actually happened? Were you there? Did you witness the experiment you believe? What proof do you have any historical figure existed? What proof do you even have that I am a real person, not AI. Everything is circumstantial evidence my friend. Jesus and his ressurection won't be the exception!

DeepSight:
Think away. Creating a list of qualifications for something you say is unknowable. Joker.
I have my list as well.
And i can make it fit anyone.
Go and sleep.

I DIDN'T CREATE ANY LIST!!!!!
I simply noticed what happened with him!!!
You can do so also with anybody!!!
Noticing is not the same as creating!!
Jeez!!

DeepSight:
Let me indulge you. What gives you the right all the same, to produce a list of what happens to a person as a result of which you call him God?
Remember you asked me to show you any other person with same events.

That means you already have a list of what must happen to a person who is God.
Who gave you this right?

I can produce my own list.

Please don't let me think you're dense. That he's unknowable doesn't mean you go blind. You pay attention to circumstantial evidence! Jesus ALONE has it ALL

DeepSight:
Can you see the problem here?

1. You have assumed there is anything like the Son of God. (You even call him "God the Son of God" weirdly.)
2. You have assumed that God will try to convince anyone that one Jewish man is his special Son.

Yet you say God is unknowable?
You obviously have created your own GOD.

Here's what I wrote that you obviously didn't read:

5) So how do you know God? The ONLY way is the way it happened with Jesus. ANYONE that all those things happened with is God the Son of God. You can't know him any other way. You can't know him by logic, reasoning, or attributes. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY!!

DeepSight:
Are you joking? Didnt you produce a list and ask who else in history has them and that you will believe such a person is GOD?

NOT a list of his attributes but a list of what happened about him!!! Mention one attribute

DeepSight:
How do you know this when you say we can have no foggy idea of the nature of God.
What if God does not do anything at all?

I can equally tell you that you are only creating your own human ideas.

That includes not do anything at all.
That of course is from human perspective - God to us basically means one who can do or not do anything he wishes

DeepSight:
Ensure you attend to this post, especially the red.

I DID NO SUCH THING!!!
Mention one attribute I said God MUST have.

DeepSight:
See above. Who made you the creator of a list of God's attributes when you say no one can know God?
I can create my own list you know?

I DID NO SUCH THING!!!
Mention one attribute I said God MUST have.

Let me ask two questions
1. What would it take to convince you that Son of God is visiting the earth
2. If you were God what would you do to convince people that the person visiting is truly your son.

Study everything about Jesus and you'd get the answers

DeepSight:
Take it one at a time. If God can work through his creation, why cant he be working through an ant right now?

As to fundamental nature of man, we said that man is not the creator of all.
And indeed he is not.

You simply are trying hard to say that one specific Jewish man is the creator of all simply because you have been indoctrinated.
Same claim is made by Olumba Olumba Obu right here in Nigeria.
Same claim is made by Abd Ru Shin, the writer of the Grail Message.
And countless others.

God can do anything he wishes to do. You're trying to understand him from human perspective

DeepSight:
Take it one at a time. If God can work through his creation, why cant he be working through an ant right now?

As to fundamental nature of man, we said that man is not the creator of all.
And indeed he is not.

You simply are trying hard to say that one specific Jewish man is the creator of all simply because you have been indoctrinated.
Same claim is made by Olumba Olumba Obu right here in Nigeria.
Same claim is made by Abd Ru Shin, the writer of the Grail Message.
And countless others.

READ what I wrote! Do you read at all? READ!!!
Who prophesied Olumba for hundreds of years as God comming, which worldwide has worshipped him for 2000 years??

DeepSight:
I cant teach you history. Or theology. All these have been said of many people.
And I repeat, how do you know anyone ressurected?

Who else has been prophesied as God comming hundreds of years before he came, when he came said he was God, and has been worshipped as God for over 2000 years!
No one even comes close

DeepSight:
All of these are claims also made by and about many other figures.
PS: You have no proof of any ressurection.

This is a blatant lie. Only Jesus has all this happened with and if it happens with any other person I'll also believe the person is God - God the second Son or such

DeepSight:
OK, so why dont you also call an ant God?
Remember that you are not attributing GODNESS to all creatures. You are attributing it to ONE specific man.
Basically because someone told you so.

Understand that we are discussing the fundamental nature of man, and saying he is the creator.
You will thus be saying that fundamentally, each man, each creature is GOD.

Thats not a Christian idea.

I don't know what you're talking about. Please read the above carefully then come and repeat what u said clearer

DeepSight:
The red and the blue are contradictory.
If we cant ever have the foggiest idea of what GOD is, how can you then know that it can be known through Jesus.
What is the evidence that GOD in fact did so?

As for the green, the total cannot be encapsulated in a minuscule infinitesimal part. Also what does it even mean? How can you say you have no idea what GOD is, and then claim that the source of existence can reduce or drop itself? That means you know its nature already. The idea is also absurd. The ocean cannot empty into a teacup.

Aside frm this, anyone can claim so, as many have. I am sure you know Jesus is not the only one who that has been attributed to.

In general, many question remain. Why cant I say i am the one God temporarily dropped his divinity to reside in? Any one can claim so. Its nothing beyond a fantasy very common in the world.

As for your first line I never claimed I believed any of that.
I have only been using the presumptions of Christians to combat their logic. I dont know that there is any place called heaven.

Face it - God, if IT exists, is completely unknowable.

I guess you didn't read the first part of the original post. Here it is. Read it and say if you still think any other person in human history has been like Jesus.


Reasons why Jesus is DEFINITELY God the Son of God:

1) Thousands of years before he was born prophets prophesied that God was coming to visit us. Old Testament (OT) is full of references to his coming.
No other person in the history of mankind has this happened with.

2) Before he came a mighty prophet was sent to prepare his way. John the Baptist (JohnTB) said that was all he came to do. And that he (a mighty prophet) was not fit to untie Jesus' shoe.

3) At his baptism a dove descended on him and a voice from heaven (identified as God the Father), proclaimed, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased," (Matthew 3:17)

4) When he finally came, he himself said he was the long-awaited God and did things God would do - he was after people's souls not money, he forgave sins, accepted worship, raised people from dead, and said he himself was the truth, the life, and the righteousness, and no one came to his Father except through him.

5) He said you'd know he's truly God the Son because his words would never pass away

6) He said he'd raise himself from the dead, and did just that and in such a way that the wrappings used to wrap the body were NOT disturbed

7) Thousands of years after his death he's being worshipped as God and his words have never passed away - exactly as he said!

8} He is worshipped interchangeably with the Father. No other person has been so worshipped
in human history.

9) The Father has been pleased with his worshippers and showered them with blessings. They also worship and call on the Father constantly and he accepts their prayers.

10) He is alive and active in people's lives TODAY!
----------------

DeepSight:
Men are not the creators of the universe, men are not eternal, men are not self existent.
Worst of all, men are not born by Holy Spirit knacking.
Neither is it like them to be any such thing.
Good night.

And the creator of the universe doesn’t have the power to do all things or have a part of himself do all those things. Wehdone

DeepSight:
This Trinity indoctrination is a serious problem.

For two millenia, supposedly educated people twisting themselves in knots to say why "full man" is the creator and "full God" is the created!
Explaining why it is human to be the creator of the universe!
And why it is divine to also be a created being!

And why it is human to be perfect and eternal and self existent!
And why it is divine at the same time to be imperfect, and contingent!

Just because someone told them God knocked up a girl in Judea!

Yet you believe God is in each one of us and everywhere AND at same time localized only in heaven! And you believe God can listen to a billion prayers at once. But you can't believe that God has the power to temporarily reduce or drop his Godness and that he can have manifestation or offshoot of himself visit earth!

Maybe you should revisit this below from the front page of the thread:

Before you dispute any of these remember:

1) You don't have the foggiest idea what God is like, nor can you imagine what he is like.

2) You don't have the foggiest idea what God's attributes are. So forget all the attributes you have in your head - they were assigned by man. You simply don't have the foggiest idea what God's attributes are or are not. So forget all attributes you assign to God!

3) If God is explained to you as straight forward and quite uncomplicated, you can be sure they are giving u man's version of God, NOT God as he is.

4) God exists in a dimension you can neither visualize, explain, nor comprehend.

5) So how do you know God? The ONLY way is the way it happened with Jesus. ANYONE that all those things happened with is God the Son of God. You can't know him any other way. You can't know him by logic, reasoning, or attributes. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY!!

Gabrielshow24:
Your posts contradict you! 😂

Go ahead, say how.
You can't because what I said was 100% true!

Gabrielshow24:
🤦🏾‍♂️ This reminds me of that meme from naked gun 3, where the audience hit their heads in unison😂. My bro, I don tire for you. Kindly take clay and make one yourself. Even if such organ existed, you will still contend you had no free will!

See whatsoever you want to see! As for me, I see a union! You can prefer to see chaos at this point, I care less. For the reader, your brain is a predetermined system that helps you interact with everyday life and circumstances. From these, you form decisions, beliefs etc that help to decide your outcome.

Not whatever propaganda 🤨 my christian brother hoped to achieve. Infact, he is currently exhibiting his free will😂. Good night!

I'm not exhibiting any free will at all. If I had different genes, circumstances, and experiences, I'd be a different person all together - and not by choice!

Gabrielshow24:
The context warrants decision-making systems in the brain. Nothing more, nothing less. The brain is a complex system. This was what I meant by that although I didn't put it in the clearest of terms!

Irrespective of all these, your brain comes to reasonable decisions on various subjects. We have stretched this argument far too long.

Now you're being honest - your brain comes to the decisions! If only we had another organ we control that can monitor and override the brain!

Boomark:
I don't discuss with dishonest and deceitful people. Pretending they didn't see what is required of them.

Bye

Poor guy don vex. Please tell me exactly what you find "dishonest and deceitful" and I'll apologize and correct

Image123:
Gathering info and thinking is freewill. Ever been in a class where a smart student decided not to assimilate anything? Even on this thread, we're not all gathering all information provided. Some choose just to brush through, skip a bulk, a pick what they want.

But that is still due to the type of brain they have, which they didn't choose, and it's conditioning over a lifetime, which they also had no hand in

Gabrielshow24:
🤦🏾‍♂️ refused to be intellectually honest? I am not concerned with your specific propaganda of "no free will". I am more concerned about seeing the picture in full. The coexistence of such!

Be it internal or external, I have summed them up under physical constraints. Apart from these everything else is from your volition. Simple as that. Both you and your colleague can't disprove this. Fin.

If you were intellectually honest you'd see that everything ends with the brain with it's programming - a programming you had no hand in. And even if you were to influence it, you'd still influence it with thoughts that originate in the same brain by a process you neither understand nor can influence!

DeepSight:
I know. Its just that even where he wrote a clear admission he didnt know it. Then wrote a second admission and still didnt know it. That i cant handle.

Talk of refusing to see something starring you in the face!😅

Gabrielshow24:
So my absence was taken as evidence that you were right🤨? Make it make sense. I was offline, I came online a while back and started engaging mentions. I didn't even see that... Now that you have brought it up let me address it.

Nope, choice is dependent on circumstances. You choose from options available in a circumstance based on the internalization of the said circumstance!

Your brain is automated to assist you with some functions while core decisions are left to you. This doesn't negate free will. It just shows the coexistence of free will with predetermined systems! We have been through this already.

All the specific pleadings that you can ever bring up are a set of circumstances under "physical constraints"! This doesn't negate the intrinsic ability of "internalization" that results in decision making!

"Your brain is automated to assist you with some functions while core decisions are left to you."

This is about one of the funniest of things to say!😅
So what is the "you" that will make core decisions?
And with what brain will it make it??
There is no "you" without your brain and the conditioning it received over a lifetime, going back to even before birth!

You can ONLY make a choice with your brain - a brain you didn't choose and had no hand in programming. A brain whose workings you'er hardly aware of, talkless of understanding or influencing!

Boomark:
Please don't say things I didn't say.


I told you to show me the scripture where you got omniscient from and what it means.

So I agreed with you, God is not omniscient! Soo why do they say Jesus can't be God because he's not omniscient - because he said he didn't know when the world would end??