₦airaland Forum

LaClicKLaBenDin:
It's well with Nigeria! I just wish the youths would be more critical and discerning, instead of being partisan and sentimental. What we want is a better Nigeria; that's what we all want, but with the way this government is moving on with lies and deceit, I doubt if anything really good can come out of this government.

In recent history, I can't ever think of any government that has lied so effortlessly to the citizenry, like this APC led government. They lie without thinking and it sometimes becomes insulting. But how can we blame them? The masses who voted them into power, proved to them that they are sentimentalists and sensationalists: say anything to draw their sentiment and they will forget that there's anything called fact or figures. Sensationalise any news about the past administration, and you don't need any facts. That is how they rode to power and this is how they intend to continue. It's pitiable. I have lost my respect for so many people, especially here on nairaland, just because of the way they blindly support this government.

It's well with Nigeria.

You have spoken very well. Its just because hope is encouraged by our faith that we still believe its well with Nigeria. When you look at the way our youths reason even on nairaland which should boast of some of the smartest minds you still see the same things that brought us to this point from the generation of our fathers playing out. We cannot speak on an issue and come to a common agreememt based on the truth. The ruling class hav been capitalising on the fact that they can do what they want and the rot keeps on widening. If d youths r sensible wont they reject the rubbish govt keeps doling out to them. Real power lies with the people not govt.

As for the ruling APC they r jUST trying to hard to forestall the inevitable. Nothing can reverse d path of doom they hav set out for themselves from their very foundation.

It is well sha

LaClicKLaBenDin:
I was reading, and waiting to see counter attacks backed up by facts and figures, but was so disappointed with the attacks thrown at Reno. Does it mean that the truth is now characterised by the person who says it?

Those of the e-Zombies who always claim to be knowledgeable will avoid this thread like a plague.

One thing I have discovered about out APC brothers, is that they hate any argument that is based on facts and figures. They prefer sensational, sentimental and unsubstantiated arguments.

Fashola is continually losing my respect. I think these APC folks know that their followers are not knowledgeable enough to know the difference between facts and sentiments, so, they just say things that will stir up their sentiment.

You are right bro. The thing is most Nigerians are dull and easily misguided especially when you play to their emotions. That was d trick the APC used to ride into power. They had to blow out of proportion the bad side of the last administration and threw in promises of effecting total and positive change. That was enough to garner all the support they needed from the gullible masses who went out there in mass to vote them in.

Now that they are in and finished sharing the spoils of their victory they have realised that they are actually bereft of ideas to deliver on the promises they made. Now the scales have started falling off the eyes of some of the gullible followers (though some diehards would rather not) and they r entering into panic mode. Their best idea to cajole the masses back to their good side is to keep on heaping the blame on the last govt.

So I'm not surprised reading Fashola's comment above. He is just joining in with the rest of his team. Haven't we heard similar statements from the likes of amaechi, Lai mo and even the President himself.

Well let the wise continue to discern for themselves.

LaClicKLaBenDin:
And that's why the e-Zombies here cannot attack these facts and figures; they're busy attacking the messenger instead of attacking the message.

Of course some people will still curse and attack because they may have some hidden agenda d rest of us are not privy to. What no one however has been able to concretely dispute r the facts he brandished in the write up.

Its rather unfortunate that a minister of Fashola's caliber and intellectual status will stoop this low to make such claims about the outgone govt when what we expect from him is stellar performance even if its only on one of the three ministries he has accepted to joggle.

The difference between the assertions made by both Fashola and Reno is that whereas that of the former can be best adjudged as bogus and unsubstantiated the latter's is well backed up with facts we cam all relate to. Good one Reno!

Who does this in this modern day and age?

raphieMontella:
prominent scientists dispute the bigbang?
Who?
Kent hovind?

If you know the big bang theory well you should that despite the fact that its model provides an accurate explanation of how the universe began in time it still has its problems or mysteries it fails to explain. Have u heard of the horizon problem or the flatness problem associated with the theory.

I'm not in any way trying to undermine the big bang theory. If you ask me the proponents did some ground breaking investigation which leaves so much to admire. I also appreciate the fact that d theory explains the timeline of the universe accurately from the bang to how life began on earth.

However I cannot put all my faith in such a model and discard my belief in God. That will be foolish of me considering the fact the the big bang has not provided all the answers.

My point is science has really done well in addressing our physical challenges but what can science do to address the moral and philosophical questions that bug man. How can science answer the question "why are we here?"

raphieMontella:
how can a parent build a duplex home..and keep kids alone at home..knowing fully well that they can fall off from the gatter?

This your analogy doesn't follow. God didn't leave mam handicapped against his environment. Man has everything he needs to take of this house left to him by the house builder/owner.

Lennycool:
That is why we try to know more, to get a better understanding of the universe

The physical part of creation is what you are relying on science to elucidate on. What about the spiritual aspect. Do you also think you can apply scientific methodology on that as well. You do know that man is composed of body and spirit right.

Lennycool:
A small portion mostly biased based on religion

The fact is that its acceptance isn't universal. So what good is it when it hasn't answered all the questions its supposed to. You must agree that life as we know it today goes beyond your scientific theories. Your bing bang for example cannot explain the first cause, the events that took place before the Big bang. There r also loopholes here man.

@Lenny God the way u defined it doesn't have a nature so doesn't exist.

God made all of creation so that everything will give glory to him. He made man to dominate every created thing. The universe as vast as it is can be subdued by man. He desires that man in turn seeks him out to know him, love him and serve him in this finite world and in the end be happy with him in the infinite world to come.

God is holy and just. He is loving and good. He is Almighty and nothing is impossible for him. He is worthy to be worshipped because of his powerful might. Due to his righteousness he reigns supreme. There is none like him.

He is not just d God of the Jews but of every humam race. The Jews are mainly a conduit through which he chose to reveal himself to the rest of the world.

God is love and his image on earth is our Lord Jesus Christ who is also uncreated but begotten of the father before time began. He has the same substance as God the father. He took on himself willingly like a lamb the mission of redeeming creation from the cruel effevt of unrighteousness and death that came with it.

That is the God we serve. Glorious in holiness, awesome in his works. Look around you briefly, pause and behold everything that has been made. How can you not love he that has made all this to be. How can u just give up and accept that this wondrous being is too difficult for you to comprehend hence u cower with false beliefs that he doesn't care about what he made and has vanished into nothingness. How can you feel too big or important to worship such a mighty one whem you cannot even create a simple lifeform. Its in your very nature to seek the Lord. That is how you are made. From the inception of time mankind has always sought God in one way or the other. Hence the proliferation of religion on earth.

I can keep going on but you need to do some deep thinking on your own. You have to put your faith in something, the question is, in what shall it be?

Lennycool:
And who is the creator Yahweh?

God is a supreme spirit who alone exists of himself and is infinitely perfect.

Lennycool:
Yeah everything presented is presented with evidence.
The big bang, evolution e.t.c

And you conveniently skipped the part I talked about eyebrows raised on these theories even among prominent scientists

@Lenny you need to umderstand that if there exist such a thing as a creator it must have a nature. Its in the description of the nature of the creator that different religions and belief systems diverge.

Coming to yours, how can you describe its nature if its action (of igniting creation and then vanishing) doesn't portray that it has any nature. It can't even be said to be a being. It sounds more like a random spark Dan a living being. For it to possess a nature it must have formal and final causes. There must be some goal it seeks to achieve. Some end its actions play at. Take for example an orange tree starts as a seed....complex biochemical and physiological processes take place in the course of its lifespan and in the end matures into a full orange tree that produces fruit that bears seed which will be dispersed by animals to continue its specie. That final end is d cause to all the years of its germination. That's d nature of the orange plant. What can you say is the nature of your deist creator?

Lennycool:
Your confusing my idea of God(deist creator) with God(religious)
The deist God only provided the spark needed for the beginning of everything, he didn't create man or trees or animals.
All that is thanks to evolution. And please don't start to argue about it. I don't care if you accept or not.

I understand you perfectly well Lenny but I would wish you could apply some critical thinking to your belief. How can a creator just initiate creation and then disappears afterwards. Do you really believe everthing came to be as explained by the big bang, evolution and other scientific theories? There has been a lot of eyebrows raised on these theories even within the scientific community.

I want u to prod further on these questions. Why did the creator create? To what purpose is creation?

Lennycool:
I repeat all religious Gods do not exist. That includes Yahweh. The God I might accept is real would not care to show himself to anyone. It would not interfere.

If God exists then what is his nature like. Why did he create you and everything else that exist (both seen and unseen)?

hahn:
Your last paragraph is just ......

Good night

Hahaha...bonne nuit Mon ami

hahn:
I am only referencing to the "idea". That is what god is. An idea. And a very primitive and savage one at that.

It is

Incompetent - Destroyed earth twice because of sin but sin still exists
Confused - Check the first point
Sadistic/genocidal - Drowning, burning innocent kids for no reason

if this is the best anyone can come up with for the characteristics of "God" then it is a real shame

In your opinion God is an idea but its just your opinion at the end of the day. Truth however is what it is irrespective of what anyone thinks.

From your write up u believe Gods flooding of d earth was to eradicate sin but dats wrong. The earth was flooded to punish the people of the time and not to eradicate sin. The antidote to sin lies in Christ Jesus. God is not a sadist as u pointed. Even we sinful humans met out capital punishment as justice for crimes commited against d state how come I've never seen u campaigning against organized society for being genocidal?

There r two tyPES of atheist. The sincere ones who are actually lost souls that r confused and genuinely searching for salvation deep inside and then there is the second class who know d truth but r only out to deceive gullible people into disbelieving in God so that in the end their souls will be damned. The latter set are agents of Satan their father and will employ any tactic to achieve their aim. Which of these class do u belong to Mr Hahn?

[quote author=hahn post=50823243][/quote]If u truly believed God was imaginary u wud never have used words like incompetent, confused and sadistic to describe him.

sonmvayina:
O

it is God that is responsible for everything..both the good and the evil..both dont happen until God says so...if the devil thus exist, his duty is to obey the will of God..before the devil thosr anything, God must approve it..if the devil disobeys God..i bet you, he will be decommisioned imidiately...there is nothing the devil will do that God will not know about..your salvation is knowing why God allowed it to happen and save yourself from it....stop making God look like somebody that can not control his creation....read Lamentation 3:38, Isaih 45:7,...explain them to me...

You r confused bro. God allowing evil persist doesnt make him responsible for evil. He has told us that in future he will put all his enemies under his feet. So we know that in d grand scheme of things the reign of evil is only but temporal. The ways of the Lord is far from ours in every aspect. Yes God allows evil for a short time but its to serve his JUST AND RIGHTEOUS PURPOSE. You sir do not know the mind of God(I dnt claim to either but I trust in his unfailing righteousness)....stop transcribing biblical text literarily.

hahn:
What part of "it is confused, incompetent, sadistic and imaginary " don't you understand?

The fact that u can use those personal adjectives to describe 'it' betrays your belief in the non existence of God

Lennycool:
It is my personal conjecture and you're not forced to accept it. I believe that if there is a God he doesn't interfere in human matters no those he care about our acknowledgment or worship. I believe all religious Gods do not exist. They are all have human emotions and their books are flawed.

I respect your beliefs bro. Thank God u are not extreme to say God doesn't exist. Just have an open mind. I'm certain someday God will reveal himself to u and u will know d best way to serve him.

Hope u had a nice day my guy

Lennycool:
Sure man whatever

Lol

Lennycool:
God does not exist.

What is your proof to that claim? Convince me.

KyleBrry:
... Was cannabis the TREE OF KNOWLEDGE??

That thing that makes you guys slow and dull

Lennycool:
No my friend yours is. I was once like you trying so hard to interpret the bible and God in good light. I blinded myself to how illogical it seemed as you do now.

You cant ever be like me same as I cant be like u. Each and everyone of us have a different life pattern to lead. If u have led my life probably u will have strong conviction that God is real and is good and worthy of your worship. Prolly if I led ur life I wud have given in to my unbelief. What is true however is that you were never like me bro.

Lennycool:
No my friend yours is. I was once like you trying so hard to interpret the bible and God in good light. I blinded myself to how illogical it seemed as you do now.

The flaw in your arguement is that u keep ascribing the faults of the created beings to the creator. Do u think God erred by giving these beings the @bility to think and choose freely?

Lennycool:
So because the knew everything would turn bout well he created the devil?
Every pain inflicted on every human was allowed by God then.
The starving children all around the world that die each they because of extreme hunger is because of God.
All the terrorist attack like 911 was because of God.
All the natural disaster and disease that has killed millions was caused by God.
All the people that are supposed to go to hell and burn for ever was because of God, as Satan was the one responsible for the first sin.

How is this God supposed to be loving?
You say it will be better in the future, but that does not take away the very real suffering countless people suffer around the world all because he created the devil.

Your thought pattern is flawed my friend. Id throw light on this later

modified: The way u r erroneously blaming God for all the evil in the world makes me wonder if by some experience u feel God has failed you hence your anger at him. It doesn't make sense if you apply the concept of freewill to hold God accountable for the actioms of his creations. Its unfortunate that evil came into the world but that should not make you lose your faith. Do not make yourself an enemy of your own maker. There are many mysteries about life that you and I do not understand but everything about our human nature points towards a higher plane of existence. That we are created beings. Do not deny this part of your nature. God still loves u bro

Lennycool:
Don't you see that the story itself is very flawed.
Why did God create the devil in the first place knowing fully well what he would do?
Reason.

In the order of creation angels were created before man. They were spirit beings with tremendous power. Lucifer was an angel but his pride made hm fall from glory to being the devil. Its d same abuse of freewill that led Lucifer and his minions to rebel against God. Try to understand d concept of freewill first and u will stop having all these misconception about your creator. The omniscient power of God has made hI'm know that in d end everything will turn out well. Do u know how all this will end?

DeSepiero:
The writers of the Bible needed man to commit a 'sin' against God, so that's the best they could come up with.

Very funny

You and I weren't alive to have witnessed the level of depravity on earth that made the Lord decide to reset creation with a deluge. But as a xtian guided by the holy spirit in me, I trust that it was a just and righteous call. In matters of religion u never can take away the place of faith. Even the choice of unbelief requires a level of faith

Lennycool:
Sorry my friend but you are wrong.
God knew everything man would do after creation, yet he cursed man for eating the apple, he sent a worldwide flood to destroy man and even regretted creating them. Does this seem like an all knowing all loving intelligent God?

My man I dnt think u r being fair in your critcism of your creator. U agree with me that man was created with d power to determine his destiny. Are u otherwise stating that free will given to man is not a good thing. Why hold God responsible for the bad choices man has made for himself.

Lennycool:
The story its self is filled with plot holes.
If God knows everything then he knew Adam and Eve would eat the fruit before he even created them.
Adam and Eve didn't know good from evil so how did they know disobeying God was bad.
Sack the writer

That is why he is God. You know just like u he has his own personality. He can also choose to take any line of action that is pleasing to him. He knows that despite man's fall he can still be saved. For the devil and his followers, there is no sabing because in his omniscience he has seen that their hate of his authority is eternal. The beautiful xtic of God is that in all his choices he is righteous, fair and just. He decided to go ahead and make man because he knew that he will reconcile him to himself again. And the new man will be far better than the first. Amd every event will in the end serve his purpose.