₦airaland Forum

kenturkish:
From all your posts it's obvious you hate Jon snow, how do you expect the wildlings to just follow him? Someone who has been their enemy for thousands of years, Jon snow was elected Commander of the watch after sam sang his praises and reminded every one how jon snow Led them @ the battle after ser aliser Thorne was injured. He does what he feels is right and he stands by his decision, jon snow is seen as a legend in the north your beloved ramsay even said so himself.

I think he is arguing just because

oyetpel:
You just gave me an example of what am talking about. What you wrote above is a good example of a real time travel am talking about.

gj22:
It didn't start this season.
In season 1, think about when the imp traveled from winter fell to the wall and back to kings landing and how catelyn traveled from winter fell to kings landing and to the vale. This time line discrepancies have been established since season one. You just didn't notice it then.

The time line on different plot point elapse at different rates.

Nihilist:
Mate Jon Snow is a terrible commander and if you've been paying attention, you will notice that nobody seems to trust him as a leader....well, except for Tormmund and that little girl.

At Hardhome, despite the threats of the whitewalkers, despite the intervention of Tormmund who personally beat one of their leaders to death, the majority of the wildlings refused to follow him.

At Castle Black, some of his own subordinates consider him a traitor and kill him, and in the meeting where Aliser explains his logic to the members of the watch, we see that majority of the nights watch agree with his killing. Again, Jon has to rely on Tormmund to prevail on the members of the watch so that he could take his revenge.

When it came to the time to fight the Boltons, the major lords refused to trust him. Sansa refused to trust him. Tormmund had to remind the remaining wildlings about how Jon had to literrally die for them. Even the Lyanna had to be talked into backing Jon by Davos!

It is important to note up until the battle of the bastards, literally nobody trusts in Jon as a leader. Tormmund is loyal to Jon as friend and not as a leader. Tormmund has described himself as not being clever, and was ignorant of battle tactics as seen during the discussion with Jon and Davos.

Davos himself stressed how important it was to stick to the plan. Sansa told him that Ramsay would act in the way he did.

We can see that at almost every stage of his journey, Jon's judgement has (rightly)been questioned by many of the characters he interacts with. Even his own babe called him an Olodo.


So this is exactly why, I'm not judging Jon in hindsight. Everybody knew he would fuckup. This guy has constantly and consistently been one of the most idiotic characters in the GOT universe. Which is why I find it exceptionally galling that none of the Nothern Lords noticed this post-BoB

All your points are made totally out of context.

How do you want the Wildlings to fight for him when they don't know him? He was a crow and they literally have just met him for the first time. How are they supposed to know What type of commander he is?

The other lords didn't want to fight for him because the feared the Bolton and also knew that he had an army made up of Wildlings whom they hate. They didn't know what type of commander he was.

Wait, nobody trusts in Jon snow as a leader yet he was elected lord commander of the nights watch? Now, i know you are just arguing for arguments sake

An0nimus:
That's one very long time skip

It doesn't matter if nothing screen-time worthy happened in the time period.

codedguy1:
First of all we all agree Ramsay is a mad man.

After he killed Rickon he signalled his archers to shoot, that made Jon charge forward because he was now a stting duck out in the open.


Rickon running zigzagardly would mean nothing if Ramsay unleashed his archers just to killed him. The arrows got him even when he was dead on the floor right after jon charged forward.

His calvary went after Jon before he signaled his archers.

Jon charged forward without thinking. He let his emotions cloud his judgment. It was after he charged forward that Ramsay sent his cavalry.

Or am i remembering wrongly?.

oyetpel:
You don't understand nobody expects them to characters traveling or when they sleep and wake up. The shit started this season.

It didn't start this season.

In season 1, think about when the imp traveled from winter fell to the wall and back to kings landing and how catelyn traveled from winter fell to kings landing and to the vale. This time line discrepancies have been established since season one. You just didn't notice it then.

oyetpel:
No need to talk with you, alright?? Why flash and Varys meme online?

It's a joke. It's just a meme.

Nihilist:
My point is actually not based on hindsight at all.

The Lords of the North had the foresight to realise that Jon Snow was going to lose to the Boltons, and decide to preserve the lives of their men by abstaining.

Sansa had the foresight to know that Jon would lose, and deliberately refused to enlist her forces under his leadership.

The only person to keep faith with him was a child who naturally isn't mature enough to fully understand the consequences of enlisting her men in a war they couldn't win.


This bit is particularly crucial because they all knew that this guy didn't have the men, the parentage or the acumen to take on the warden of thr north(by royal decree no less)

So what happened?

They fought, Jon lost, and was rescued by forces who he had neither summoned, nor had under control.

Does it sound logical that when he was shouting 'we fought, we won etc', that not a single person there would point out that he actually had to be rescued from his folly?

So Baelish just sat down there and let Jon share the credit, especially when littlefinger didn't even come to the battle for Jon?

my point has been simple, Jon has been making some pretty bad decisions, and his only backer up until ep 10 was a child....so why has no one called them out on this?

You are wrong. If the houses had backed him, he would have won most likely. Have you forgotten the battle against the Wildlings? With barely a hundred men, he defeated an army with giants and they were being attacked from both sides. No one had the foresight of anything.

The kid knew she had to fight for snow but still didn't want to risk her men so she gave 62. Can you see that she was actually smarter than the remaining houses?

Also, how can you call Jon a bad commander after he led the battle at the wall? He had a chance if not for Ramsay using his humanity against him.

Gbola5:
Yes, its an illusion. So how can power be power. What is power in the first place ?

Power is not an illusion.

blackjack21:
I honestly don't know, and neither do you. i can only assume so can you, and our assumption might be right or wrong. since we can't be sure then, we can't use our assumption to judge the situations.

all the questions you asked there are paradoxes.
we cant know for sure what, but certainly lady Mormont isn't of military age for her to be able to lead her forces into battles, but certainly she can lead them in battles just like the way little finger, who can barely wield a sword led the Vale' knights.

Aye, wars are won by fighting men, but they need the leadership, they need that speech that will give them a tumncent glow: and they have lady Mormont.

And she also has aides to guide her until she is of age

Gbola5:
Cersei was wrong. Power is not power

She was right from a philosophical stand point. Power is power. Knowledge might be powerful but it isn't power. Power is power.

Something is what it is, no other thing than what it is.

oyetpel:
"Like seriously, some people want all scene to be shown,
like what Danny ate in the morning, who prepared the
breakfast, how the went to market and bought things.
What ship lord Vary traveling in, who was the captain,
did vary eat in his cabin or on deck? if thing went that
way, will still be in S01E01 :\
na waw for some feefu."
Si i put it in your fu¢king face.

What is insulting there?

Nihilist:
Jon didnt win the battle, Vale knights did.
Jon has no men, the Vale boys do.

It makes no sense that the lords of the north would trust their men to a reckless commander who had to be rescued by another house.

I mean, if even Sansa can't trust the dullard, how on earth are the nothern lords so eager to trust him...especially after a disastrous battle?


Surely, this point I'm making is pretty obvious no?

It's not, because you are talking in hindsight and you know what they say about hindsight

Gbola5:
Joffrey didn't attend council meetings because he never felt the need too. If he wanted no one would stop him. Well she's to young to be in the real fight, but that doesn't equal crouching behind her mother's
skirts. If you can come up with a scenerio in which she was queen, would there be a Battle of Blackwater ? The events that lead up to it would be changed in that scenrio.

Couldn't agree more. I don't really get the guy's argument. We have already seen that she is capable of ruling. She is wise. She was obligated to answer the call and gave only 62 men. If it were Ramsay, he would have murdered the other lords for not answering.

semitunde:
Good points. But you also have to admit that was the direction of the writters. Margery probably had a better plan than Jon but we'll never know...

The writer hinged Jon's win of the bastard battle on one thing, luck.

That wasn't really luck. We knew right from time that Sansa might summon the Knights. They were always going to come so far Sansa asked. It's not like they just showed up uninvited

oyetpel:
Was frustrated when the guy said should they write 3 months later like naija movies, and another one saying some people want GoT to be showing them when Dany wakes in the morning, eat breakfast and other sh!t to i got to replied that in their face. But my point is even if there is no dialog during road travel or characters going to other places, they should just depict it somehow. Can you imagine someone here even said the Iron Island (Pyke) is not far from Meeren, and that's how Yara and Theon got to Meeren so fast. Another thing is if you watch closely lack of reportage in time travel started in season 6. So maybe its because they didn't have G.R.R.M book 6 and they were also twisting and doing hollywood on characters

Oga, there is no time travel in the show. It has already been talked about here that the timeliness are not concurrent. They don't happen at the same exact moment in spacetime. It has nothing to do with GRRM. It's just budget issues most likely. People have been complaining about it even from the beginning so, your GRRM point is invalid. How do you want them to show it? They are practically squeezing in months of real time into 45 mins.


The timelines are not concurrent, plain and simple.

semitunde:
For you guys questioning nihilist's prognosis; can any of you picture lady Mormon and battle of widlfire? Will she be with the imp motivating people ( and ultimately fighting), or with her mother, couched up under her, right before tywin opened the palace doors?

Would she even be allowed to go negotiations ala battle of bastereds ( she wasn't in the real fight).

What role would she have played had she been a queen in westeros during the battle of wildfire?

Also, consider the situation when tywin held a meeting of the small council in his office instead of the council chamber and didn't invite joffery the king; in spite of joffery's protestations and weyrey; he was still made to understand- in more eaye than one that he's also just the grandson, and probably a foolish one at that.

If Lady Mormont was in this situation, what would have happened differently?

Cc.blackjack21, gbola5

I didn't want to pitch in at first but y not...

When Robb went to war, who was lord of winterfell? Bran right? Was he not a kid?

The truth is that leadership is learned. She was probably groomed into the position from a very young age and also she had 2 men beside her to make up for what she lacked in maturity and experience. There is nothing wrong with her ruling.

goxx:
kindly go to IMDb, check top rated TV shows of all time and get back to me. I no fit shout.

GOT was 9.2 before battle of bastards and winds of winter and breaking was 9.4.

Looks like you edited. But still, GOT is 9.5/10 from over million reviews while breaking bad is 9.5/10 out of 860,000 reviews.

Not even factorin in the fact that GOT is still ongoing.

oyetpel:
Guy you need to think, nobody said they should be putting 3 months later. GoT manage time frame and time travel from season 1 to 5. Season 6 was just were writers intend to put characters wherever they like and also put in some elements of surprise, like Arya serving at the twins. Arya's journey to Braavos for example, we all saw how she boarded a ship to braavos. Ned and King Robert entourage we all saw as they went through king's road and how dramas ensued. Transportation of Tyrion in a box to pentos. But season 6 some characters were just placed wherever they want them to be without accounting for time travel. Please if you no get wetin i dey talk just shut up and dont quote with your shiit that do i expect them to write 3 months later.

Lol.

You are the one who thinks the characters are teleporting yet, i am the one who needs to shut up?

OK bro

goxx:
what?! Kidding me? Breaking bad is even slightly rated above game of thrones.

I doubt this.

Nihilist:
I'm not exactly sure why my integrity is being questioned...

Ignore me, was just trying to talk like Ned.

dablazor:
Breaking bad is that good?

It's strictly drama. Of you are one of the people who like action, you might not be able to watch it.

JhyMedex:
kinda disappointed on D Queen margaery's death...
She was suppose 2 av a game plan..
Recall D rose she gave her grandmother?...
I guess we'll neva know wat it was...

She probably did but cercei was just...cercei

Gbola5:
Yeah true. Asha and Theon traveled continents in two episodes. Arya as well. But Sam travels from the Wall to the Reach in 10 episodes.

The time frames Re not concurrent. Tho they sometimes overlap

oyetpel:
Guy, GoT is a great show but their time travel is shit. For example look at Sam's journey, had it been that they have more roles for him, he could have arrived the Citadel library since episode 3, but they delayed his arc because no real story on his journey. The fact is since season 6 they start placing characters were they need to be not accounting for travel time. We all saw the long journey Brienne and Podrick undergo to reach the north, what about when Varys and Tyrion were traveling to locate Daenarys. But season they just drop characters were they need to be, doesn't matter tge location, whether its far or near.

Like someone else said, do you want them to be putting 3 months later? This is a show not a film, different arcs may or may not occur in different timeframes. It's just the way it is.

Also, does it matter? So far you can understand. I mean, were you really thinking the battle of bastards took 20minutes? Or varys traveled from dorne to mereen in 2 minutes?

It's just one of those things we have to ignore.

Also, in Sam's case, you can use the baby as a frame of reference , that's what i did.

mach7:
I dont think Margaery is dead. Just a hunch though

Lol.

she dead bro

Nihilist:
She's not mature.
She's a child.

She lacks diplomacy and tact, and speaks too openlu because...well, she's a child.

Take her decision to back Jon Snow from the onset, for example. That was a very daft and tactically naive decision. All the other Lords of the north who could see the play knew that Jon Snow did not have the men and political goodwill to take on Ramsay...and they were right to abstain.

The vast majority of Snow's men were butchered.I wonder how many of the Mormonts survived that battle. If not for the Knights of the Vale, which that kid did not know about when risking her innocent men's lives, Jon snow and his men would be dead...and the Mormonts would have a target painted on their backsides.

The only reason her men listen to her is out of an obligation to maintain the servant -lord/lady relationship. I'm just baffled as to why.

Do you not have a shred of honor?

They were obligated to answer the call. If they had, it would have increased Jon's chances.

We know no king than the king in the north whose name is stark.

UjSizzle:
The look on Sansa's face when she looked at Little Finger...
Was she scared of something? Baelish had a smug look on his face. I don't understand how you guys interpreted that as disappointment or whatever.

Nah, it was definitely disappointment and Sansa's was smug. In my opinion tho

Graviton2:
I think White Walkers might be susceptible to Dragon fire, just as they are to Dragon Glass. I see the Khalessi actually saving the day.

They quench regular fire but i don't think they will be immune to dragon fire. Although, i am open to the possibility.

jmaine:
Jamie is seriously pissed with his sis, but duty to family and love will see to his demise defending Queen Cercie

I think Jaimie can be reasoned with. All he needs is a Lil talk from a sensible person like tyrion

iykmora:
The three major deaths of the Red Wedding were, in order:

1) Robb’s direwolf Grey Wind, shot by crossbows;

2) Robb, stabbed in the gut by Roose Bolton; and

3) Catelyn, whose throat was slit by a Frey.



The three major instigators of the Red Wedding were

1) Tywin Lannister,

2) Roose Bolton and

3)Walder Frey...who died in consecutive order by crossbow bolts, a knife to the gut, and a slit throat.


Say something about coincidence??...

Yes, coincidence.

Gbola5:
But it made more sense to leave him in Westeros, don't you think ? And have the others join up.

I agree. Maybe they just needed him in that 10/10 shot or he had something to report back.