₦airaland Forum

donjazet:
First of all, what crimes have homosexuals commited?

*Criminal law* Read up on it, understand it before replying. . I don't have time for ignorant argument this period

Ibime:
All humans have rights. Criminals are punished for denying others their rights. I don't think half of Super Falcons team should be arrested and thrown in jail for ten years for being lesbians.

You still haven't come up with any tangible reasons why criminalization of Homosexuality is human rights abuse.

DontBullshitMe:
He was actually saying the same thing.

You posted that : " Criminalization of homosexuality is not a human rights abuse".

He, Ibíme responded that : "I guess Homos are not humans?" which means that If "Human rights are inalienable rights enjoyed by every human", Criminalization of homosexuality denies gays what should be a human right to them.

So, for you to argue in favour of the fact that Criminalization of homosexuality is not human rights abuse implies that you mean gays are not humans. He was basically questioning your post.

Now tell me the difference.

Dontbullshitme: Criminalization of Rape/murder is not a human rights abuse"

Godx: I guess rapist/murders are not humans?


So, for you to argue in favour of the fact that Criminalization of rape/murder is not human rights abuse implies that you mean rapist/murderers are not humans.


I am giving you back exactly as you wrote it.

Greatihex:
since making the rule, why has there not been any clamour for penalty or any penalty for a player non aggressively touching a ref until this Aguero incident that involved a female?

Double standards. Men will always do foolishly things as long as a woman is involved. I watched a video on youtube about domestic violence, the woman was punching and beating the man in public everybody was just passing by no one said or did anything. The man was continuously screaming "stop harassing me " yet nobody said anything or even questioned the woman. But the second I repeat "the second" the man tried defending himself and pushed the woman away, everybody rushed the man and almost beat him.

DontBullshitMe:
The actions of murderers and criminals threaten other people's freedom and rights. So, it's not a human right.

I will respectfully say your argument is weak.

Nigga I was not making an argument. I was showing him how daft it was to use the " homos are not humans" line. Every Freaking body is human.

Ibime:
I guess because homos are not humans?

I guess murderers and criminals are not human?

Ibime:
The ENDSARS list of demands has expanded into all sorts of demands about good governance beyond policing. I actually see nothing in the new demands that fit better with the original demands of the protest than challenging a law that enshrines the abuse of human rights, of which Police are the first arbiters of justice.

Jumping from #EndSars to asking Buhari to resign or NASS to take paycut is more of a leap than addressing a human rights issue which ENDSARS is primarily all about. The criminalisation of homosexuality and the 10 years penalty for it is more related to the human rights abuses that underpinned ENDSARS than the subsequent demands for Good Governance, which are not human rights issues.

Criminalization of Homosexuality Is not in any form or shape a human right abuse.

rationalmind:
Well said. I see people do this all the time and I find it really annoying. The moment I see things like last 6 matches, last 10 matches, I just know someone is trying to push an agenda.

How is using a player recent performance in 8, 10, 15 and maybe 18games to gauge his output an agenda? Let say you striker starts the season scoring 10 goals in 10 games and then proceed not to score in the next 10 games, if a person points out the striker hasn't scored in his last ten games so he is not performing, is that agenda or facts?

joviegghead:
Messi is declining? Yes!
In terms of goal scoring? Yea.

Should you be surprised? Nope. The world expected it. We expected a time when Messi will revert to a play making role. Why the hell is it such a big deal? His assists and chance created stats have risen recently, as we've anticipated years back.

Messi himself said that he is less-obsessed with goals. Still the man takes shots in matches to get goals for team, like we saw yesterday.

So what's the basis for the criticism? He should be benched? Okay. Name the most creative player in the team. Nobody! Except Messi!

As for his seemingly lackadaisical attitude. Not surprising. Dude has seen all that can be seen. I've said that he seems changed. Maybe competition somewhere else will bring out that fire. But for now all we can do is enjoy what's left of the genius and hope barca can come with a strong team.

He is not our problem. The team(some players) , the management are.

And maybe no fans to make his head swell

*If Messi doesn't want to be here then he should have been sold. That's a potential 150M Barca could have gotten from Messi sale to improve the team.

* Messi position is a big problem for Barca set up and for any coach.

The question is where does one play Messi?

He can't play as a #9 as his movement is poor and has no aerial/physical presence, can't play as false 9, he doesn't have the pace nor workrate nor stamina to play at Right wing, he doesn't have the workrate, stamina or positional discipline to play in midfield.

I just don't understand where you can play a player like that without destroying the entire teams shape. we used to get away with it as he'd bail us out 9 times out of 10 but this isn't the case anymore.

tesppidd:
I posted that Messi had declined yes but its a natural phenomenon at 33.
But you're amazed that he's declined.

Even at that, his all round contribution to the team still beats every other player but obviously what you were trying to preach all along was that he should have been sold.

What you displayed was selective amnesia and cherry picking stats.

I have never seen where someone picks 18 games across 2 seasons and judges a player based on that.

Normal people do it season by season but out of mischief you judge by 18 games across 2 seasons. Bleep!

We all know that Messi got 25 goals and 21 assists last season 2019/20.

This season is just getting started!

You don't even have any player who posted better stats than that in your team yet your nagging like a house wife.

Niggar GTFOH.

K

khingTony:
You shouldn't be arguing with that guy, he doesn't leave any post that criticizes Messi unattended to.

Usually I don't answer Messi fanatics who can't take Criticism of Messi it's always tiring.

tesppidd:
I tried to explain why the entire team including Messi was struggling then you brought in the word decline.

And to justify your use of the word decline you kept on insisting on open play.

If you really think that you should judge him solely on that open play crap then someone has to check u.

Carry your myopic analysis out of here.

You didn't try explaining anything that made sense. I even went further to clearly show you Messi struggles didn't start this season so that excuse won't fly. Through out 2020 he has been terrible in finding the back of the net. If you like accept or not that's on you and any other mental gymnastics you want to apply to believe Messi has not decline.

tesppidd:
[s] Look at our attackers this season.

Griezman 1 goal
Coutinho 1 goal
Dembele 0 goal
Brathwaite 0 goal
Trincao 0 goal

Yet Messi is your problem.

All these anti Barca fans in disguise sef. [/s]

This is not related to my post in any way.

tesppidd:
For starters if You're talking about a "decline" and your definition of a decline is strictly when a footballer is not scoring goals from open play then that is absolute bullshit.

You remove freekicks, you remove assists, you remove chances created especially for a footballer who plays basically a free role, again that is a load of horseshit.

I did my research for the last 18 games.

And he scored 1 against Mallorca, 1 against Osasuna, 2 against Alavez, 1 against Napoli.

And a total of 11 Assists across them 18 games.

It's your own cup of tea if you don't want to talk about assists.

He is not a striker so when you restrict your assessment to goals from open play then you're been very myopic.

In his last 18 games he's been directly involved in 20 Goals for Barca.

Let that sink in.

If you wanted to add assists and chances created then you should not have quoted me. You are the one turning the discussion to an area it doesn't concern. My initial post below stated clearly the area of concern I have about Messi.

Godx:
When are we going to talk about Messi struggles and inability to score from open play?

We should have cash out on Messi this past window. Most teams would have payed 100million for him. We could have potentially save close to 200million from his transfer and wages. Bartomeu is an idiot.

tesppidd:
Okay;

In Messi's last 18 matches for Barca, he has scored;

*5 Goals,
*4 Penalties,
*11 Assists.

This is summarily 20 direct goal contributions in 18 matches.
I bet you still better than 99 percent of all the footballers in the world.

It's a decline from Messi's standards alright,
but if this is what you're alarmed about a 33 year old then you're being unfair.


Make of this what you will. I don't know where you got your figures from;
probably lifted from an anonymous page.

Not talking about assists. Specifically talking about Messi scoring from open play.


* In 19 la liga matches last season from January to August he only scored an open play goal in 4 matches

*1:0 vs granada
*5:0 vs eibar 4 goals
*4:0 vs mallorca scored in 93rd mins
*5:0 vs alaves. Scored twice last game of the season.


All other goals were penalties and one freekick. In the champions league too he scored only one goal from open play in 3 matches (vs Napoli). 19+3=22matches

When we add the 3 league games this season that means he has scored from open play in only 5 of his last 25games for Barca.

tesppidd:
I said it here from the beginning; our opening fixtures for this season are fire!

Among the big teams in la liga we had the touchest opening fixtures;

Sevilla
Villareal
Getafe
Celta

It's been a very tough start for Barca.

For a team that's undergoing rebuilding, we have not done badly.
With all Messi went through before the season, he's played very well.

The 'new' team will blend and Messi will score goals.

Even Griezman that is missing one on ones for fun should be given time.

it didn't start from this season Bro. Messi decline has been showing since the start of the year and most fans are beginning to notice it at other Barca forums. Messi only has 3 open play goals In his last 18matches. He has only scored from open play In 2 of his last 18 matches. On top of that he has no position and just do whatever he likes.

When are we going to talk about Messi struggles and inability to score from open play?

Melvyn11:
Greatihex I have an interesting question to ask, Was Kepa/ your defense bad under Sarri or he/it became bad when lampard took over?

Lampard is the issue with Chelsea. He is an attacking coach with Zero capability of organizing the defensive parts. Chelsea record under lampard is 63goals conceded in 43epl games.

IKON360:
Thank you.
But Barca Messi is still Argentina Messi. Argentina isn't a club, they never had the players like Barca did. But they did extremely well in 2014 World Cup, coming 2nd with Messi the best player. So I think Messi has been very crucial and influential not just in Barca but for Argentina.
Remember they did his miracle to even qualify for 2018 World Cup. And there was no Xavi and Iniesta nor Guardiola. Messi has been phenomenal I tell you. Heck he has reached 3 finals with Argentina, 2 at Copa America and 1 at the world cup and he was the best player or among the best players for these tournaments. So I think Messi is that important.
Of course Xavi and Iniesta elevated that Barca side but Messi was extremely crucial

Well I disagree on the bold. Barca Messi and Argentina Messi are very different bro. Maybe due to lack of players,world class coach or proper system but Barca Messi is very distinct from the Messi I see in Argentina. Argentina have never utilized Messi properly and apart from one competition which was the Copa America he has never light up any tournament with Argentina like he does regularly in the champions league.

IKON360:
Nah, Guardiola would always been known for coaching and creating one of the greatest teams of all time AND the greatest player of all time. You can't mention Guardiola without mentioning Messi and you can't mention Messi without mentioning Guardiola. Heck Messi won 4 Ballon d'ors under Guardiola's tutelage and shattered record after record under Guardiola. Guardiola was in charge when we had the best versions of Messi

I would rather say Guardiola brought out the best version of Barca Messi. It's refreshing to see a
fellow Barca fan that's rational unlike others that are quick to tag other people posts as "trash and nonsense".

joviegghead:
Oh dear! So you're saying a Messi-included man city/Bayern team wouldn't achieve anything. Damn!

I think I know the problem. You're just another 'i-am-not-a-messi-asslicker' fan. Trying to prove nonsense.

K

joviegghead:
It's your opinion. But This claim of yours has expired.

But again, it's your opinion. Take out Messi from that team and imagine what will be left.

See the thrash you're spewing. "If Guardiola had the prime trio at Bayern and City he would have dominated more than he did" . Just wow.

Just give him Messi. That's all.

I am not making any claims, I am speaking facts you are just blinded by sentiments not to se it but it's ok bro. We had Messi but have been disgraced the last couple seasons in the champions league. Your theory of just give him Messi is already down in dust.

IKON360:
Well you have point, because the midfield without Messi won the world cup and two Euros. And Messi without that midfield hasn't won an international trophy. Even though these were awesome players.
But I still think that Messi was instrumental in taking that midfield to the next level of excellence. If you watched some of Spain's matches in that 2010 and many of Guardiola's matches without Messi, some resolute teams have proven extremely difficult to break down. From Madrid, Athletico Madrid for Guardiola to Germany, Netherlands etc for Spain.
But I still think that Guardiola is known today, not because of his work with the best midfielders in the last 10 years but because of his work with the best player ever

Well put but at the bold bro Guardiola is well known today for creating and coaching one of the greatest teams of all time not Messi.

joviegghead:
I'll totally understand you trying to downplay Messi's influence in barca's success.
You said Messi's performances with argentina proved his over reliance on the midfield trio during Pep's era. How about his performances after that?

See bro, the midfield was important, but Messi was the man. He wasn't just the cherry on top of the cake, he was the X factor. He practically made the job of the midfield and attackers look easier.

The midfield trio thrived with Spain not because they were superhunans , but because Spain was bursting with talents. The Spanish midfield had xabi alonso and others who made things happen with or without them. Simply put, the Spanish team was complete from attack to defense.

Bro you are clouded by sentiments and it shows. Messi was the best player at Barca during Pep era no one is debating that with you but he was not the X factor. The X factor for Barca dominating teams and regarded as one of the greatest teams of all time was our Midfield trio spearheaded by Xavi. Without Messi, the trio also dominated Europe and the World. The base of our legendary team was Xavi, Iniesta and Busi. If Guardiola had that prime trio at Bayern and City he would have dominated more than he did. Check Messi performance for Argentina and Barca during Pep era and see the difference.

IKON360:
The front three had Messi fyi

And?

IKON360:
What of Enrique? He won UCL and the midfield was without Xavi...

This is about Pep's Barca not Enrique. Enrique Barca was built on our Amazing front 3 not Midfield.

FirstbornWds:
Bros. There's no gain proving what's not right.

Aside from the being the tactical genius and having a midfield trio that could press, who was responsible for scoring most of the goals, providing assists, splitting the defenses with dribbles that would cause even the defenders to commit frustrating fouls?

Messi or who?

Need I tell you that our most embarrassing moment in the Cl then to Bayern was basically because Messi was not fit.

The same goes for Jose's Inter Milan Semi-final against us. The cage was against Messi primarily.

I can go on to mention lots of matches that it took the exceptional brilliance of Messi to break through!

It was also during this period that he won the Ballon D'or back-back, with the likes of Iniesta and Xavi coming behind.


Mind you, I'm not downplaying the trio's contribution ( + Dani Alves too) to Pep best days... But placing Messi behind them is way not acceptable. Even Guardiola will rubbish that claim.


It's like not recognizing that it is what he wants to create out of Sterling even when it's obvious that KDB is the craftmaker at City.

Bro you still haven't said anything we don't know before. Pep Barca was built on Midfield domination. That trio was the essence of Barca domination under Pep especially Xavi which even Spain benefitted from. Messi was just the cherry on top,the finishing touch. Like I said before Messi performance for Argentina and Barca during Pep era proves it.

FirstbornWds:
Swallow this, please. Messi was the crown of Pep's Barca. There's no disputing that.

But then, we mustn't rubbish the midfield prowess then too.

Barca's dependence on Messi didn't start 5 years ago. It wasn't just so obvious because we had other players that understood when to complement him when needed.

There's no need to be economical with the truth here.

Messi was not the crown of Peps Barca and that's the fact. The midfield trio was the crown of Pep Barca. Without that Midfield trio there will be no Pep Barca. Messi performance with Argentina and Barca during Pep era proves this. You are the one being economical with the truth here.

IKON360:
After that how many times has he done it? Any way you look at it, Messi is the crown of Guardiola. Even Valverde has reached UCL semis.

The midfield trio was the crown of Pep Barca not Messi.

I still remember the argument about Tammy choosing England over Nigeria. I hope those who where in favor of his decision see how stupid it was now. Tammy was never good enough for England in the first place.

Elnino4ladies:
I will choose to play second fiddle in English team than to be a regular in Nigeria team

spillo1:
if you really look at the long term prospects for the players, their positions means sooner or later they will be second fiddle as long as certain players are in the England team. Why be a backup to a striker like Kane which means you won't even start matches and only by God intervention will you even play than be first choice in Nigeria. Is there any rational reason at all.

Swissh:
Leave the idiot Abraham. He can feck off to England. When Osimhen will be balling at the next world cup he will be watching on TV.

popizaino:
Yes.........and that's because officiating this days have been made to favour attackers than defender, and it's the same reason why present day attackers will just be breaking goal scoring records even without trying hard.

Maybe it's because they are better class of attackers around today. Faster, smarter, & more clinical.