₦airaland Forum

Zahra29:
Lol, when attempts at sophistry fail, resort to histrionics 😂

Relax, no one is calling for the waiver to be lifted (well, apart from you), just an acknowledgement that there are broad exemptions, as this fact always appears to be conveniently forgotten.

No one forgot you were the one bringing it up as an excuse that many were not paying for ihs as they claim when you indeed knew they reason they were exempted. The question is does it merit it or not? If it does then why is it an issue for you?

BankyGee:
I said EXACTLY this same thing on Twitter when Atletico Madrid were complaining that Ademola Lookman played against Iran and Jordan.

So make them useful for club come useless for country abi? Funny clubs.

No mind athletico make we manage Lookman for them but make dem no manage Lookman for us.

The players don’t play for both clubs and country for free they get paid even if it’s a friendly match na who allow them gaslight na im dem go gaslight

Meliforme:
Featuring a player for a combined 180 minutes in matches that are not that competitive is a schoolboy error.
Many may look past this, but i won't.

Just look at Ola Aina, until a player comes down with injury, you won't bother a substitution. You won't factor in variables that may cause injuries such as number of minutes, pitch surface, temperature and altitude, and physical signs of exhaustion. I could recall a game where Bright Osayi Samuel was exhausted, they still kept him without taking into consideration that physical exhaustion can make a player more prone to injuries.

These players are not managed well. This is both on the NFF and on the coach.

In the last AFCON, if Wilfred Ndidi was managed well, his injury situation couldn't have made made him miss matches.

So the players too don’t get injured when they play for their clubs? We will say the clubs are not managing them well too? Is it not injury playing for club that made osihmen miss some of our World Cup qualifiers?

This your point no enter as injury can occur playing for country or club. As the clubs protect their interests we too as a country has our interests to protect too. Atletico bought Lookman following a spectacular performance at the last Afcon.

mekabuachi:
Like, I don't understand some persons trying to downplay the whole situation...
Last time we played a top 20 ranked team, Morocco (12), we couldn't win them in 120 minutes, this is the best time to see how your team competes against a top 5 team in the world, Portugal is currently no 5 in the world.
Last time Portugal played us (2022) they won 4-0, alot has changed since then, new coach and we've improved as a team too.
Seems like most people don't realize that the only time a coach can truly evaluate the true strength of his team are in high profile friendlies like this, abi is it in a competition or qualifiers a coach would know how strong his team is?
By then you go don go house na😂

It’s our way to always defend any slip up even when we know it will cost us in the future. We are a bunch of arrogant educated illiterates who always think anything goes.

I know how disappointed the Russian team felt when we played them in a friendly and osihmen was not available and the Russian team coach expressed his disappointment in an interview or press conference. How will I feel as a Portugal coach when an opportunity for my defenders to be tested against some of the best attacking players has been lost. Are we not laying a bad precedent for future games of this magnitude? Then tomorrow we will say nff has no plans to improve the team or our football, make we Dey play! Pure rubbish

Truidstarr:
I don't understand, what is all the wailing for? Meaningless friendly that only helps our ranking? Osimhen wants to sort his club situation according to Chelle and Lookman's club requested he be excused. Make Una clam down.

Meaningless friendly indeed, make I hear Una blame nff again when we fail again in the future.

traware:
Like i have said on numeous occasions,every african team can lose all their matches 99-0 in this world cup and nigerians should have no say in the results.For goodness sake,our world cup 2026 qualifier group was a lay-up/a tap-in and we still found a way to fudge it up with our usual in-fighting.Why should osimhen and lookman want to play training matches a.k.a friendly games when realistically,they should be preparing for the proper competition right now.Even if we had qualified for this event,we would still had issues with the players going on strike because of pay/bonuses issues etc...as usual.We nigerians have really got to start reflecting sombrely about our situation in every facet of our existence

How available and in form were both players during the qualifiers? Is it not their lack of form and availability that cost us the World Cup ticket or have we all forgotten so soon?

Zahra29:
You've written a lot without actually saying a lot.

You're conflating 2 different things and have completely missed the point of my original post.

1. The discussion was not whether or not a British national is currently a net -ve or +ve relative to a recent migrant. Of course a Brit born and raised would be a -ve starting out. This is true of EVERY nation that invests properly in its young people. Just as you also are/were a net -ve to your home country due to your government subsidising your medical training.

2. The point, dear reader, is that it is a false claim that a recent migrant has paid more into the NHS (by paying the IHS) than his British peer. Using your example - if you came into the UK at e.g 28y/old and assuming you paid £3k IHS for an initial 3 year visa - it is ridiculous to think that this payment matches or exceeds the cumulative contributions of a 28 y/old junior doctor who has been working since he was 23

It's a very simple, obvious fact and no lengthy writeup can change this.



Erm, the bottom line is that since 2015 the government's position (including the current Labour government) is that it is reasonable for recent migrants to make some level of contribution towards the health service in order to access it in exactly the same way as nationals who have been paying in for years.

Many countries do not give newly arrived migrants comprehensive access to their health service on exactly the same terms as its citizens and residents. The only difference is the model used - most EU countries, AUS etc impose mandatory private insurance fees while the UK has chosen a flat fee model.

You should consider becoming a member of Parliament to effect the changes you desire from within. If "anchor baby" Kemi (as you love to denigrate her) can do it, so can you. Plus you already have nairaland votes to get you started.

Your issue is you just want foreigners or migrants to pay more for the healthcare system to continue to subsidise Brits even when they don’t use it as frequent as Brits.

😂 Just keep robbing Peter to pay Paul as quoted from Wikipedia ‘ to take resources from one person or cause to pay off a debt to another, which only shifts the problem without solving it. It generally refers to a short-sighted or ineffective solution that leaves you just as in debt or in trouble as before’

😂 they don set this man up chai

realpoacher:
As it stands, we may have to start a campaign on Twitter to force Gala and Athletico to release Osimehen and Lookman.


I can't stand not watching our full squared against some of the best teams in the world

It’s not worth the stress dear but I will never advocate for both players again nether will I blame nff anymore if we don’t get such high profile games in the future.

Meliforme:
Ademola Lookman played a combined 180 minutes in the friendly matches against Iran and Jordan.
If this is not poor management of a player, then what is it. Friendly matches are not that competitive.
I will not blame Athletico Madrid for deciding against releasing him.

Victor Osimhen is injury prone. I am not even sure if he has recovered from his arm injury.
Exposing himself to a system were players are poorly managed with a coach that is not discerning enough is risky.

I won't blame some of these players when they make decisions like this. Many of these players honour their call ups with unresolved injury cases, and are still not managed well by coaches that are desperate to get results.

Some player risk their club careers and still not get minutes to play, only to get back to their clubs and find themselves at odds with their club managers.

We can’t win major tournaments this way if they are injury prone or their clubs will always have their way then it’s time perhaps to move on without them.

It also means this is the true strength of our football and we have been living fake life.

Zahra29:
1. No one is advocating for the waiver to be lifted.

2. I know what the exemptions are and why they were introduced in mid 2020 during the peak of COVID. The govt came under a lot of pressure to do more to support healthcare workers -also including porters, cleaners etc- (beyond us clapping for them every Thursday) because they were literally in the frontline, putting their lives in danger while the rest of the country shielded at home.

3. Prior to 2020 healthcare workers were being charged IHS despite "competition from other G7 nations".

Am tired of the contradictions, let the govt go ahead and charge them now so folks like you stop grumbling and we can rest.

Ppogbae:
It is just a pair of friendlies. People are looking too much into things. Let's us build a squad that does not hinge on Osimhen, Lookman nor any single player. It'll serve us well in the future.

Games like these are not for building it’s an opportunity to play against some of the best sides on the planet and have a feel of what an intense opponent looks like especially European teams, the last two games in the unity cup are the ones for building. Poland and Portugal are not using these games for building it’s for them too to have a feel of what a strong African opposition will look like in the World Cup.

The way we continue to play down little details like this is the reason this current eagles may never win any major trophy like the Afcon. This team cracks in the face of an intense opposition where our supposed stars fizzle out. How do we fix this if they don’t get to play bigger teams in world football.

jedisco:
The ever-revolving circle of British migration.
It's easy to think this is all new but it's not. Every excuse has been given before.
Was doing some reading yesterday and stumbled upon some gory facts of what migrants who came earlier faced.

The odd thing is that many of these kids faced a lot when growing up. I knew a doctor who recounted some gory details of what she and ber brother went thru. She sometimes would breakdown in the middle of work when she has flashbacks.
The more one knows about the British society, the more you see thru most of the loud-mouthed ones.

Yeah since the end of the second world until now it’s same cycle, bring them in and use them for political propaganda to either retain power or grab power

The same Powell noted for the famous rivers of blood speech was the health minister when foreign doctors were massively brought in from India in the 60s.

TheSuperNerd:
And anyone mad about Osimhen's absence has a right to be mad. This is Poland and Portugal in a WC Year we did not qualify for, not Eswatini and Barbados.

It is well.

We are not a serious people and we want others to take us seriously? I just wonder how the national team coaches of Poland and Portugal will feel hearing this trash, we well so?

yinkeys:
Let’s see if we can actually play competitive games without Osimhen & Lookman
I can’t believe people are complaining of his absence
Someone that plays like he’s going to keeel himself when he plays for Nigeria
Is he the only player we have in the country
Let us give other players a chance too
All these people talking Trish have never made any sacrifice for Nigeria o
All they do is destructive criticism
In my opinion, they should reserve these guys for serious tasks like the qualifiers or AFCON
Im not saying anyone can just walk straight into the team though but we should have competent options readily available
These friendlies will really be a true depiction of our football level globally
Do we have solid Iwobi & Ndidi replacements ready too for the future ?
Competition will make the team better

Games against Poland and Portugal are not just for trial and error, it’s an opportunity to see our own best players against some of the best players in the world currently. This is a missed opportunity mhen, no excuse

lbrichman2:
Confirmation
Be like Mourinho don contact Galatasaray
Omo

The comments on this post are not funny
See people roasting Osimhen and Lookman like bole

It's well
People are disappointed

It’s understandable the disappointment from fans I too am not happy cos these are grade A friendly games and you need all your best players available, even the opposing teams will be hugely disappointed as the purpose of these games is also to test their squad against the very best. We blame the nff for not organising top friendly games but what then is the purpose of these games if our supposed talisman is not available, I no gree for this one at all o. Next time I will never blame the nff again if we don’t get such opportunities.

Again this is how mismanaged our prior successes after another good Afcon outing just like 2024. We need to be getting better and all our players must be in alignment

jedisco:
I'm not surprised that the term 'Boriswave' and the denigration they've received gives you joy. Do remember that an overwhelming majority would ultimately become Brits like you and me. Sure, they do have their wiki page just like the Windrush boat arrivals do- it's the recurring story of British immigration which you should know.


Like I've said multiple times, I still don't get it.
At what point in the development of some migrant kids does their thinking deviate?
At what point does the child of a Windrush boat arrival start seeing themselves any better than tax-paying folks migrating today? Or is it folks like Kemi who is a product of birth tourism or is it Priti Patel the daughter of refugees? I just dont get it.

To be clear, I don't need/expect them to support migration today. That's an individual decision. However what I dont get is how they see themselves/parents any different from the 'Boriswave'

Here is the answer again 😂

Mujtahida:
Chelle wants to create a large pool of players who can be deployed anytime. Football is unpredictable. An injury here or there and your whole team comes undone. But with a large pool of players who understand your system, you can have some measure of assurance even when one or two players are out with injury

Where have you been? You just vanished, always good reading your thoughts

minfelix:
see as Chelle use this team C carry unity cup, something we laboured hard on penalties last year….These set of guys knock ball around so calmly…even when the Jamaicans seems to wanna do some gra gra, our boys were so calm…
It was like that year when we played spain at the confederation cup where mikel was spreading passed and attacking the spanish team, but thw spanish team showed us that they are way way technical and better than us..we were biting Spain once a while but they wey patching us with clean goals

Onazi and victor Moses were a major miss at the confederation cup, if those players we’re available, just perhaps

lbrichman2:
Broo!!!
My belief in Chelle and this team is over the roof!!
How he improves players is his biggest strength in my opinion..

He brought back Alhassan and platformed him greatly
Dude be looking like a solid EPL midfielder
See that second goal na??

His scouting is also topnotch!
His game management and team building is excellent

Painful we missed the WC
We should be winning the next 2 AFCONs

Give Chelle a 5 year contract!
Pay his salary and allow him work!!

Dude loves Nigeria to pieces he’s been long I saw a coach who truly loves the eagles this way even some of our local coaches in the past no like eagles reach Chelle and it shows in the way the team plays.

Lots of arsenal fans will die and resurrect many times today 😂

TheSuperNerd:
I warned about Arteta's Defensive Haram Ball to be activated again in this Final. With Arsenal 1-0 up, it is in full effect. Lol

PSG have not made a shot on target for 42mins. A Whole PSG attack.

This is the Garden Wall of England.

😂 if e reach your turn go Dey play tiki taka for champions league final body go tell you

The motto is bring the cup home to mama any way any how

Oga no overdo yourself o 😂 think am well o

Zahra29:
Newsflash: That's how a tax or insurance system works.

Do you know how many millions of people have paid into the NHS for decades and have not/ barely used it in that time? Tax contributions that amount to tens of thousands of pounds for a service they've not personally used, but they keep paying. That's why the service exists for people who do use it.



So do adult Brits who live in England 🫤
This isn't a migrant issue. The same rules apply to everyone.

The system you are advocating for is a completely private one where you pay out of pocket at the point of use. However:
1. £2k wouldn't get you very far in such a system. One GP consultation alone is £250, if you need blood tests and a CT scan or MRI - your money has finished before they even start talking about treatment or further investigation.

2. That's not the system that the UK has chosen to adopt and this has been widely known since the IHS introduction in 2015.



Actually, a significant proportion of migrant families - i.e. main applicant and their dependents - don't pay. And it is a government decision to continue to extend this COVID era waiver. It's just funny that this exemption is never mentioned whenever migrants complain about the IHS or the evil UK government. Even those who don't pay the IHS join in the complaining 😂



This Labour government has significantly increased funding into the NHS and introduced cost saving measures to tackle waste. There is always more that can be done but there isn't a magic money tree in Downing Street.

No one is blaming migrants, but it is reasonable to ask migrants to make a contribution towards a health service which they can access on Day 1 on exactly the same terms as a British citizen or resident who has paid into the service for several years and decades.

The exemptions you keep talking about are those who work in the healthcare sector again the maths is simple let the uk govt start charging healthcare workers ihs and let’s see how they will fare and compete with other G7 nations. It will be interesting to see where doctors even in Australia can get refunds on their house rents.

The other group exempted are asylum seekers and refugees who at the initial stage can’t work (I wonder how they will pay) until they get their refugee status I will also suggest after refugee status have been granted let ihs also be charged and let’s see again how that will go perhaps that would be seen to be fairer but again how does that comply with international norms and conventions. But for some of us who have been contributing from day 1 till now to always be made to feel we are not contributing our fair share is an insult to our sensibilities especially when we do very little or no visits to the GP.

Mcleo007:
Exactly. The last time I checked, tuition in Germany is largely free, even for international students. When you compare that to the UK, it’s not even close.
That contrast alone says a lot. In one place, the system is set up to make education accessible. In the other, it often feels like a barrier you have to figure out how to climb, especially as an international student.

The biggest catch in all of this for the uk is faster turnaround in the visa application process just imagine the uk is like the us that does interviews for visa applications (though they do in rare cases but how much sef) how many students will they see? That’s why Canada at a time had to improve their visa processing time for students exclusively to Nigeria to compete and now for even Germany to compete they had to outsource their visa process to vfs the same organisation that also process for the uk and Canada so they are all in business and once any of them try to make things harder the next available country is there to take advantage. People will aways have their money to study no matter all this agenda of proof of funds and what have you, the question who is more serious to do business?

Mcleo007:
How do you mean people are not overpaying?
You’re paying about £2k or more for an 18‑month period, and in that time you might only see the GP once or twice. How does that not show that you’ve paid a lot for something you barely use?
The way you’re putting it makes it sound like every migrant uses the NHS in the same way, and that’s just not true. There are people who have been here for four or five years and have only been to the GP maybe twice. And even then, they’re still paying for their medication out of pocket.
The bigger issue, if we’re being honest, is the government underfunding the NHS. The population has grown, but the system hasn’t expanded to match it. Instead of taking responsibility for that gap, it’s easier to point fingers and blame immigrants, especially the legal ones who are actually paying into the system.
And yes, some dependents don’t pay the Immigration Health Surcharge. But whose decision was that? They didn’t set those rules themselves. If the exemption wasn’t there, do you really think they wouldn’t pay?
It just feels like people are focusing on the wrong problem.

It’s all gaslighting, the ihs thing is simply a crowdfunding thing. One thing I have noticed and I don’t blame anyone that much for some of these views is that they just see things mostly too directly and don’t understand the business and value chain behind many policies.

The immigration business and value chain is a multibillion dollar thing but when it’s reduced to culture wars and all sorts of agenda then it’s too easy to take a lot of things for granted and focus on the wrong problem as you have said

bigtt76:
The bolded - Not sure that is correct, the reason for allowing 20hrs a week work for students is to enable them earn for part of their upkeep and not primarily to pay their fees. Their fees are meant to have been covered by the proof of funds which also includes for their upkeep and that of their dependents.

That’s why dependents were also allowed to work full time as well and students themselves on holidays, see those who made the rules understood what they were doing and when they wanted reduce the influx or subscriptions they simply ban dependents, it’s simply a business decision based on credit system and not necessarily academics so It’s not black and white as we see it. See in the US dependents of students are not even allowed to work no matter the level of degree and there is no way the uk can compete internationally if they go that route so it’s competition and business hence the tweaks here and there.

Someone has suggested earlier the block fund system like Germany does, the question is why is the uk not looking into that direction? For me the answer is Germany sch fees is little or almost nothing for international students while the uk fees are astronomical so if you do block fund and also do astronomical fees again how do you compete? It’s left to the uk to do whatever they like sha in their own economic interests.

Zahra29:
Typical emotional response as usual.

To the bolded, you know that it is already free for many migrants. And for those who pay the surcharge, the government's (reasonable) position is that it is a fair contribution to access the comprehensive range of NHS services, compared to the private insurance model used by migrants in AUS and other countries which typically does not include coverage for pre-existing conditions.

I think you would find that private insurance or paying out of pocket would be far more expensive than the IHS flat fee - do you know how much an NHS birth and ante/post natal care costs? (Hint - A lot more than £1,035 especially if there are any complications).

But that they came at 40 is not emotional ba?

Even if the fees are increased to 5k it still wouldn’t satisfy folks like you! All we hear it’s to collect more from migrants and still bastardise them for causing heatwave! It’s all beginning to sound like comedy! Fleece people and still talk about fair contributions!

justwise:
You are making it look as if all Nigerians that came here with work or student visa came at the age of 40, many are in their 20s and 30s.

Yes British citizens are entitled to use the NHS because its their country just as migrants are also entitled to use NHS because their paid for it, i mean OVER paid for it.

The British should be the last country on planet earth to complain about immigration, the same people that went around the world shop lifting countries now have the gut to complain about immigrants that paid to be here.

People i have issues with are those who came here to commit crime and break the law, apart from those set of people ..the rest should enjoy what they paid for.

typical gaslighting as usual, pick a subset and use it to put everyone in the same basket. Let's even agree that some came in at the age of 40, what they are paying in should have been rejected na and kuku give them a discount or make it free.

This is even the best way to answer this right here below

Goodenoch:
Before, I used to be surprised too but I’ve realised that being fully aware of these things is the exception and not the norm, although I’m not sure why.

Personally I’ve been obsessed with early retirement following the FIRE method for a long time so have been particular about learning all I can about some of these things. it’s amazing how much opportunity there is to optimize one’s current and future financial position under the standard layer of work throughout your life, pay taxes, and retire when almost dead. I guess it’s good that these conversations crop up once in a while so that people can be sign-posted to learn more.

I think the cost of living is also what’s worrying lot of folks but like I’ll always say if the uk is not meeting up with your aspirations any longer then it’s time to have a rethink if you want to stay longer here instead of adding to your woes by giving up your pension. You pay more taxes, bills and you want to part ways with pension again? aaah

ehizario2012:
I'm really interested in this topic because I've been contemplating stopping my NHS pension. Is paying NI not enough? That extra 8.5% is somehow jare! Many immigrants in my trust have opted out but I'm still unsure 🤔

Just to add my 10 kobo, you won’t be young forever o and old age can be financially devastating, you may think the pension doesn’t make sense now until then.

If you’re going to stay in this country for the long term and not a mobile migrant like some of us don’t even dare opting out of any pension e get why o!

Still surprised this conversation keeps popping up.

Lexusgs430:
So, don't leave cash laying around in your cash isa....... Invest or withdraw...... 😂🤣

So my cash can’t breathe in peace again in this country 😂 can I know my offence?