₦airaland Forum

freeman67:
For those that would want to know which is performing better between the investment houses... All you need to do is to open account with the houses you which to compare.. Deposit same amount with them for at least 6 months - 1year you will know which is better.

As for GIF and MMF.. To me MMF is more reliable... 2016/2017 I had to transfer my funds from GIF to MMF because of a sudden and serious drop on my interest.

I later started a little GIF when share price started going up late December 2017 and the interest was appreciating fairly and constantly. This days the interest in almost stagnant... MMF is movement is gradual and constant but GIF is not.

Exactly what I was saying, it seems another bear market is coming again. So I will advise to be wary with GIF for now.

yinkaoke:
Thanks so much you made lots of sense; but let me say this, why I may not agree with seeing their high rates as being desperate. Do you know that mico finance bank serves majorly the grass root people and do you also know how much they give out loan to their customers, their loan interest to their customers is mostly 60% annual, so a fixed deposit fund of even 25% is still ideal for a well functioning micro finance Banks. their interest on loan is far higher/expensive than that of the Banks and also easy to access.

I completely accept with your advice on doing my due diligence before engaging my fund. I am on top of that just need someone with experience to share and some brain thought through experts

In the financial world, I have learned the hard way that the higher the return promised, the higher the risk. The reason their loans are that high in the first place is the risk factor. Trust me if you want to sleep with your eyes closed, you don't want to mess with some of this stuffs. Only with one you have seen their books.

freeman67:
There is more to Nigeria Microfinance banks than meet the eyes most time.. I do not know how stiff their regulation is especially because the little interest I have with died in my first attempt to to check them out...

If you were ardent reader of this thread before now you will see where someone here said his friend invested in one and was not able to get back his capital as when due...

Also, usually with regular commercial banks depositors funds is the safest. At least we see Skye bank just had issues and CBN took over and sold it to polaris bank. Same with other banks. With Microfinance banks there is actually no guarantee with that. Lots of Microfinance banks have closed shops without the depositors knowledge and them getting back their deposited funds and nothing has happened. You may not have heard about Trim Microfinance bank before, it went under with people's money. Even the depositors couldn't not get back their money and nothing happened.
You can open the thread below for a testimony of another Microfinance that went under last yes..
https://www.nairaland.com/3805249/femaz-microfinance-bank-abuja
The list of some closed by NDIC
http://ndic.gov.ng/closed-microfinance-banks/

So you need to thread carefully... If you must invest in them take time to research on the one you want to use.. Most of them are good in luring investors with big offers without ability to deliver... They will pay you interest till its time to get pack your capital then you will see the ponzi side of them.

Exactly. Hehehehehe. Your point on the ponzi term was funny but true.

Yayira:
I want to ask you a question on the bold PLEASE it’s just a question oo.. I’m still learning..

Where was money used in purchasing an asset gotten from ?
Do you know how much it was bought?
Think you need to first find out if the money used in buying such asset was taken from a profit that was declared.. if not then they have every right to consider it a profit after selling.
And btw they’ve got to be a profit from the sells of any asset which should be declared.
Take diamond bank for example, such asset in such country can’t be sold at loss.. whatever was made on it should be declared..

Just Incase i no make sense lol ignore this post all together..

I recently saw the list of collateral lands Diamond bank wants to sell. I was just laughing, except they see a rich big buyer, they will sell most of those things at less than their face value depending on how fast they need liquid cash.

You all keep forgetting that the stock market mimics the normal market. That is why when traders have a product on shelf for a long time they can decide to even sell at a loss just for the cash.

It's like someone who has 10 million shares of a company that sells daily on an average of 1 million shares, but he needs liquid cash asap, what do you think he will do? Of course he will probably be crashing down market prices to sell ASAP.

Perspective people. Perspective.

bigjay01:
... and someone is bidding @75k
tomorrow they'll start telling stories that touch

Hahahahahahahahahaha.

Looool! Scary stuff people do here, even worse than the cryptocurrency world. Lol! I am beginning to think I will fit right in here. Awon TA, keep TAing...

Godlylifeoneart:
@GonFreecss1
This is the message I have been preaching on dz forum. traders have misled investors by incorporating the Concepts of TA and FA which does not reflect the true status of >60% of listed companies in NSE.
Who can tell us the true capital inflows of 50% of the listed companies? Many of the companies declared money realized from assets sales as profit, dz builds up the inflow and subsequent alter the true PE ratio, and dz mislead investors in anticipating higher growth for the affected companies.
If it were not the Nigeria factors, A company like sky bank should have had PE ratio of zero before the suspension (medicine after death)
A bank like diamond should have a zero PE
The bank is now on a mission to sell assets and declare the proceeds as profits to investors.
NSE has defiled all known fundamental principles of investing and financial independence.
In my view, winners don't quit, quitters don't win either.
The way out is to ignore all the emotional and confusing analysis by the so called Wisemen that know everything about NSE.
Keep investing in companies that are well structured (management)
Companies that have the interest of minority shareholders. Such institutions will deliver at the long horizon.

Thank you very much. I used to think people in the cryptocurrency world are pure speculators, but coming here has shown me that speculators are everywhere. Of what use is TA, if an announcement or rumour about a company good or bad news comes out? How will TA help?

If a company is making money or a good business, I don't care how bad things want to get in the stock market, it's the smart thing to buy more.

I mean does it make sense? A company averages 50Kobo EPS when it was 2 naira. Then it becomes 1 naira, and still maintains the 50Kobo EPS. Lol! Of course I would fucking buy more if the other metrics are okay.

I will say this again, perspective is your friend. If land was sold like stocks on a screen, people would behave the same way they behave with stocks. Emotion, especially fear is a very funny thing. Greed and elation is another funny one. Lol, everyone quotes the Warren Buffet stuff like it's easy. (Be greedy when others are fearful and be fearful when others are greedy), but the truth is it is easier said than done. The problem is many of you invest your whole life savings. How will you sleep well when you do that? The best time to have invested was in that 2016/2017 period, beginning of this year was a bad time. This same thing happened in the cryptocurrency world, they kept warning people, but they never listened.

The truth of the matter is people are more comfortable investing their money when everything is going up, but get scared and sell when everything is going down. Typical buy high, sell low.

Forget all the TA stuff. People who make money here are the emotionally balanced people. Not people who react to fear or greed, or people who follow the crowd or trend. You will never make money doing what everyone else is doing.

There is a reason Warren Buffett is one of the richest guys out there. He was not a trader, he is an investor. Has he made mistakes? Yes, but he has consistently beat the market overall.

yinkaoke:
I appreciate your response and would be more grateful if your response is constructive.

do you know that some of the Banks own shares in some of the Micro finance banks, some is even fully owned by some banks, So?....

and they are equally regulated by CBN as someone rightly said, so please I need someone with an experience and or a logical reasons why I should or should not.

I would say it depends on the micro finance banks. The only Microfinance bank I can trust is NPF, and that's because I can see their books and know how much assets they have, profits and other things so they basically look strong and don't seem like the type that can go burst anytime soon. With that said, putting your money in a micro finance bank you don't know their financial standing and liquidity is a risk. My advice is to research the bank well, and if you are satisfied... go on and do it. Another thing to note is, such high rates means they are desperate. You only have to look at the primary market to see how much CBN is selling the original thing. If Stanbic and co have lower or equal rates, why should a small Microfinance bank have something higher? There are so many stories that touch with micro finance banks. Do your proper research and after you are satisfied with your findings make your conclusion... but my own conclusion is those deals even though they are juicy, reek of more risk you don't need for a few extra %.

Mfunkynation:
FBN offering 11 + for my M. the refuse to tell me the days .
when i turn the offer down, he was vibrating that 11% was good that i should take it.
i just jejely walk away

Lol. This is why I like Money Market fund. No stress. There is always that painful risk with Tbills you lose some bids. Though if you hit a nice bid it's actually quite juicy.

Mfunkynation:
grab it with your two hands now

When you guys apply for Tbills, how long does it take to accept your bids?

anori:
I said GIF is doing better right now. I invested the same amount in both funds and watched it for 3 months. the GIF gained more money and this excludes the dividend pay out. The Fund price goes up consistently and doesn't yoyo like MMF.

You don't understand me. Yes it goes up, but it's exposed to the equities markets. Which means even if your capital is guaranteed, your profits are not. All it takes is a bear market, to do the fund in. I am only trying to explain what you are invested in, I am not criticizing it. Like I said it's perfect for those who don't have an exposure to the stock market and want to mix their Portfolio up without stressing themselves buying equities themselves.

Jejebabaa:
Looks like you forgot to include this quote by the same Warren Buffet
1. Market can stay irrational longer than you can remain solvent.
2. Investing in an emerging markets (Nigeria inxlusive) is highly risky.

Oh! True. That is why it is never a good idea to invest in more than what you can't afford to lose.

Also instead of timing, investing slowly once you believe something is undervalued is a good idea.

But the truth is this, investing during the bear markets is a good way to make money. That is the best time to buy good companies at a fair price. No matter how good a business, you don't want to pay too much for it.

I have learnt a lot from Warren Buffet and Benjamin Graham. With a few quotes, I understand that it is not easy, but investing to make money can be simple. The problem is all this over analysis syndrome.

I have played with a little bit of forex as a noob and went on to play with cryptocurrencies, I am still standing tall and I am green. Was it easy? No, but the basics was simple. If you remove emotion, you will make it. What people consider loss in this NSE makes me laugh though. This is the easiest space to be in, trust me. Easy to understand the intrinsic value, unlike where I come from. Warren Buffets dislikes cryptocurrencies, but the irony is what I learnt from him helped me there. Funny right?

Never ever forget the basics. A good business will always have a good stock. Are there bad businesses people are making money from? Yes, but if you don't like losing money you shouldn't invest in bad business, because one day time will catch up to them.

From what Benjamin Graham taught, you have to have a margin of safety, but many people confuse this with Book value. Most stocks with low price to book value are value traps, as can be seen with other metrics. What I mean is the fact that people still invest in Businesses with large assets and low net profits relatively to other businesses. This is a bad idea. Just look at the junk that is now GSK, and it's not even still below the book value. ROA is a very important metric, too much debt is also not good.

Buy stocks you plan to hold for a very long time as they become less risky the longer you hold them. See this stocks as owning part of the business and not a lottery gambling ticket or all this speculative stuffs most of this traders do.

Also, trust me if people could see the volume of land sold daily and the volatility people would say the same thing they say about about stocks directed to land. They will say it's volatile. Does it make sense to sell your 1 plot of land you bought for 1 million naira because another person sold his for half a million? Perspective! That's what people need in this market.

As a final 1 kobo, if you have done your homework and believe an asset is undervalued, then you should be happy to buy more if the value drops. If it's a good business and the value drops below it's actual value, you should be very very happy to buy more. Is that not why you all talk about Bonanza here? Buying stocks at cheaper prices? I agree, easier said than done, but this is not cryptocurrencies, the volatility is still much better. Far easier to do evaluations, there are even regulations, though not perfect but trust me coming from the crypto world this place is heaven. I feel so safe here. This place feels like buying Treasury bills compared to where I came from.


With all this said, I will leave you all with some powerful quotes to back some of what I have said up...

"The stock market is filled with individuals who know the price of everything, but the value of nothing." - Phillip Fisher

"In investing, what is comfortable is rarely profitable." - Robert Arnott

"Every once in a while, the market does something so stupid it takes your breath away." - Jim Cramer

"The individual investor should act consistently as an investor and not as a speculator." - Ben Graham

And my most favorite of all, that people always forget time and time and again even though we all know it and quote it...

"I will tell you how to become rich. Close the doors. Be fearful when others are greedy. Be greedy when others are fearful." - Warren Buffett

There is a reason this is last. Think about what is currently happening guys, think. This foreign investors leaving problem is not a problem. It's a an advantage you should be happy about.

TGIF! Happy weekend in advance guys.

ajeleomo:
We all knew Wenger was a good manager but when his time past there was need for change and now Arsenal has gone 13 games unbeaten.
It is time to change from Stanbic, for the past 3 months those who use Axa mansard can testify that stanbic rates have never been higher with all the reinvestment claims.
Know when to tell yourself the truth, Why should i go for less?

Lol. You just said it yourself, for the past 3 months. What then happens when Stanbic becomes higher again? You change back? Lol.

Look at their historic rates. Compare it. I am not saying you should change to one Investment bank or the other.

Guys I know we all want to buy cheap stocks, but you have to beware of value traps. They might have low price to book value, but it's very important you look at how much money they are making, net profit and profit margin etc, EPS, dividends, ROE and most importantly ROA, compare with other companies in that sector and overall. Don't just go and buy cheap stocks...

Lol. Guys easy, I have been reading through all the fights and jabs and I can say there is seriously no need to attack each other. Isn't this place to help each other? Or are you guys competing with each other? Just be chill guys, same way you don't get emotional in the stock markets, you don't get emotional on a forum page. Let's just all take deep breaths, cyber hug each other and let things just die out.

Chibuking81:
On this question, you will ask yourself, how many times in a months did people consume product produced with sugar, like beer, mineral, tea, etc, the level of consumption was affected greatly by recession.

For instance, I don't buy insurance companies stock, because It will be difficult to convince me and many others to insure, not because it's not good, but because of stories of those whom had negative experience with Nigeria insurance companies.

So how many times did you consume product manufactured with Dangote sugar before in a month, and how many times did you consume it now, did it increase or reduce?.

Lol. I will be frank, it has reduced. You are right though.

And you are also right about insurance, Nigerians are wary of insurance companies, lol! I always stay away from insurance stocks.

Hmmn... this is a big lesson though. You can't force good economy in a country, strategy and good policies are what we need, but we lack that in the country, thinking about it now, if things continue like this, it might get worse. Unemployment is on the rise, salaries are poor... lol! This country en...

Another question... does FCMB have people who do Market Making for them specifically? Their volume is quite large.

What do you all think about the future of sugar though? It has too much hate, even though I know better, that doesn't mean other people do.

All in all, I am asking what do you all think about the future of Dangote sugar? Is it bleak?

tritritri:
Is this bloody ? go through 2016-2017 data and dat wat i call bloody.

I understand, but I meant this for myself. My portfolio is red, the scary thing is I am happy and I want it to drop more so I can buy more.

Bloody November, a day to remember.

BullBearMkt:
...To have a robust model, go through NSE, and not a third party platform. Since it will be monitized, then be ready to part with some money too & don't rely on free things. Best of luck.

Well said.

Yayira:
I use MorganCapital.

Nice. Heard they are cool too.

sellydion:
No further need.If that is your only purpose. A number of sites have that even in Nigeria

Lol...

Frawzey:
Its a project that aims to see the trends in the NSE. There are a lot of these abroad but none in Nigeria. So I hope to create one.

Thanks.

Hmmn... an interesting idea. Will you be monetizing it?

Agbalowomeri:
NSE should introduce shorting
Meat everywhere

Lol. Things will definitely be interesting if they do. There are some companies I feel need to be shorted out of existence.

Yayira:
I have an account with them too but did not fund it because the site got too much ceremony .. I like simple things jare..
Till date I still can’t navigate the site lol

Lol. You mean Merristem? It's actually basic. You won't need to do most of the things you see. Lol. So which one do you use?

ajeleomo:
abeg forget Stanbic mmf joor, with all the reinvestment being done yet the interest still not good, where Axa mansard is doing 12.3% stanbic cannot even achieve 11.1%. I am taking my fund out of there joor

I used to use First bank too, for a while noticed theirs was higher than stanbic, but there was a time stanbic was higher. The problem is most of you are looking at the now, compare pre-historic rates of all of them, you would see jumping from one to another is not needed. Just stick to one you are sure know what they are doing and have a high chance of getting your money back (cannot be closed down easily). Then you are set.

anori:
I have mentioned it before. GIF is definitely more consistent if not better than MMF. I rebalanced my portfolio to GIF.

[s]Please can you give us more info on this Guaranteed Fund? What instruments do they invest in? [/s]

Just read up on it, 75% money market, government bonds etc and 25% equity. Principal is guaranteed, but not profits, I think money market is sill better, depending on your portfolio. For someone like me who already invested directly in equities, I think the money market fund is still better to reduce and properly balance my exposure. This fund I think is perfect for those who need a little exposure to the stock market.

stcool:
I don't like a company that hates to listen... I will not because of 0.5% you want me to save and then risk millions. I since ported to meristem.

Perfect. I use Meristem too. Their mobile app is really cool. They have an okay volume and liquidity too.

Someone told me UCAP (UBA) app is cool too, though for now I am sticking with Meristem as their volume is okay.

tolajay:
Interesting!

If you may, could you highlight the superior advantages of Money Market over Tbills.

By the way, isn’t Tbills a sub-component (an instrument) of the Money Market?

I will start with it being an open ended fund. Meaning, you can keep adding money easily. You don't have to buy certificate 1, then Tbills certificate 2 etc. You can just add money anytime you like, you can add as low as 5k. Anytime you have any money playing around, you can just add this to the account quickly. And the sweet thing is you can also withdraw your money easily without penalty so far you have allowed your initial amount stay for 1 month.

But the main icing on the cake, the sweetest deal is the compounding. Tbills even if you decide to roll over or compound matures every year or 6 months or 3 months, depending on what you are doing... but money market matures continuously. Stanbic gave theirs 1 month, what this means is your interest from the first month can start compounding to get you new interest. Let's assume the money market rate is 10%, and I put 1.2 million naira. This means I will get 120K after a year, this also means I will get 10K per month, the sweet thing is those 10K i get per month will immediately be rolled over and start compounding too. Also you have advantage more than people waiting to compile their money to 1 million by the end of the year. You can start adding as low as 5K from the beginning of the year and the compounding can keep you ahead.

I hope you all understand?

Remember the rates are lower than Tbills for now, could be higher in the future or be the same, but the flexibility is what is going for it.

tolajay:
I see! That could just have been the error point.

Please share the recent interest rate on your portfolio with Stanbic.

Thanks

Currently, Stanbic Money market fund is at 11.55% per annum. The rate changes daily or weekly, depending on the distribution of the market instruments invested in, and the change in rates of those instruments. Since money market is low risk it focuses on low risk instruments like Treasury bills, Commercial papers, bankers acceptance etc.

Treasury bills might have a sweeter rate, but I think Money market has an advantage over Tbills.

tolajay:
Money market?

At the current market of Tbills, money market doesn’t seem like a better offer.

At my last enquiry at FBN about mutual funds or so, the attendant told me it was a 7% interest rate.

I was disturbed considering that I’d gotten about 13% profit on Tbills.

Perhaps, there’s something I don’t know about money market in general.

First problem. Did you call their investment house (FBN Quest)? Or first bank themselves?

Some of this customer service operators don't know this things sometimes.

Or it could be the person thought it was Fixed deposit fund instead of money market fund.

If you go to the FBN quest site (not first bank), you should see the money market rates.

Left for me, I use Stanbic IBTC. They are better at this things than FBN quest. I.e. I can add money easily from the app and withdraw my money easily too.