₦airaland Forum

Donbrig:
I don't just know why some people like to inflict others with their fears. Naira is temporarily weak at the moment like every other world currencies is not enough reason to spread fear that would later deepen the weakness of our local currency. The more we buy dollars and invest in foreign currencies, the more naira will depreciate, not just oil prices falling is the main problem to naira. Naira is not just weak, but because Nigerians and their politicians are weakening naira by dollarising our economy.

Hahahahahaha. So you think buying Tbills will help the naira? You lot are very funny.

How many of you support Nigerian businesses? Or invest in a friends business? Or even buy stocks? The answer? Few of you Tbills people are willing to take that risk. So don't use the strengthening the naira angle, because Treasury bills does not in any way strengthen the naira. If anything it weakens it.

You are all here because you want to make money and preserve your wealth. If Tbills is safe for you and with your scope of understanding, by all means do it, no one is forcing you. What is annoying the most is we are all adults here, so how can someone's opinion on the internet you have never met influence your decision or scare you? Except if they are right, and that is a truth you don't want to face. If they are not right, you should be happy and keep investing in your Tbills. Infact you will probably make more money in naira if less and less people do not subscribe to it, so why are you worried?

If you want to strengthen the naira, invest in Nigeria's businesses especially businesses that create goods and services that can be exported. If you want to support the naira, why not find a way to do a job where they pay you for services in forex? With that you make forex less scarce in the country, you increase the supply relative to a lower demand. The naira will increase in value. Don't start spouting theories you don't understand because you are biased about Tbills.

The sooner most of you understand what money is and learn more about finance the better. Some of you think money is value, you don't know it's basically a debt instrument.

Yayira:
This is like the second time you post that..
Let me ask you a question, If you bought a company that performed excellently in Q1 and suddenly their performance dropped in Q2, 3 and 4, would you continue buying ?
Let’s use oando as an example..
Someone who bought @100 naira when the company’s game was on point should still be buying now at 5 with so many stories dancing around the company?

Oga you never really see things change over night.. and I no wish make you see am..

So long as you don’t sit on the board, you completely blind and deft.. the only “conclusion and solution” is selling off as fast as possible.

So you use Quaterly performance/short term performance to analyze companies?

Since you feel you know this market well to sell quick, and I lack the experience to see a change between 2 quarters as a problem. I think you should keep doing you and whatever works best, remember this is my opinion. For all you know I could actually be a Board Member that knows a thing or 2, or a paid mercenary to spread FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt), or someone who doesn't own any stock and just comes here to have fun, or someone who is learning a thing or 2 about the other people he/she is trading against. I could be anything, hence why should you follow my advice?

Why should you follow anyone's advice here? But you could look at the logic and gain a thing or 2. Point to note, I said the logic or the effect of said logic (for example, someone posts something and everyone agrees to it, that's a positive effect, but a full blown knowledge and opportunity could come if you think said Logic is flawed, that's a negative effect on only you, maybe you know something others don't? Or experience? Whatever it is, you have gained from it).

I can't teach you how to value a company, you will have to figure that out yourself and how it works for you. It is hard, but if you find a way around it, it helps. With that said, many might agree with your logic, but then again not many are making money in this market. I mean, how many people sold during the euphoria of the Bull market earlier this year? I am guessing a few. How many are selling now in this bear market? I am guessing many have. Many of you always forget that the main difference between a Bull and bear market is the rate at which people are selling or the rate at which people are buying. This psychological seasons are not dependent on how good companies are. That should tell you something, or make you understand my mindset about this things more. I will be worried if many agreed with my logic, because that will mean the current market prices has already factored it in. As it is now, I have said enough, before mr market factors in my logic and the market becomes more efficient than it is. You have to be defensive with your money, Invest with a margin of safety. You guys are even lucky there is no shorting for retail investors yet, things would have been worse.

Disclaimer - I am not an expert and you probably shouldn't listen to me. You should probably play it safe and do what everyone else is doing.

Many here are too emotional about these stocks. Lol.

What would a man gain to win an online argument temporarily and lose money in real life?

I still don't understand the mindset behind buying something up at 1 naira, then panic selling when it drops to 80Kobo, when everything about said company has always been the same.

My conclusion is that buy low sell high is easier said than done. And why? Because people don't properly vet their investments. If they did, they should be happy to buy more at a drop in price. The only reason I wouldn't buy a bag of food, I usually buy at 10K for less that price is probably because even though I have the money I have a feeling that bag of food is low quality or not good at all.

My conclusion is the bear market will continue for a while. There might be small Christmas yanga/short term bull but this bear will still cover it up.

zamirikpo:
We were almost lynched....

Including me... hahahahahahaha.

We are still in a bear market, things will probably get worse, and I suspect it will start with capitulations upon capitulation.

People are still optimistic, so no bull anytime yet.

Sorry to all those who this might hurt, it's just my opinion, please don't think too far in it.

jidobaba:
The way you people go on about these mythical ROIs on lands sef.
Unless your family owns swathes of prime land or you're a Surveyor who gets equity? Tread with caution. Been there, done that.

I can't emphasize this enough. Well said sir. From what I can see on this thread and other places, real estate in Nigeria is in a serious bubble.

OBAGADAFFI:
Remember FMN was once in the same huge debt position as WAPCO, due to acquisition and expansion, today they are improving.

WAPCO will get out huge debt sooner that expected.

This big companies alway find their way out huge debts.

NB- I don't have any unit of WAPCO for now, but i am fully prepared to enter when the i get the signal.

So you are basing your buying in on hope that they will recover? You don't have any tangible evidence or anything that they will?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.


The bear market has definitely not ended, there is a high chance things will go worse, buying into companies riddled with debts and loss, is like eating with the devil with a short spoon, infact it's like eating with the devil with your hand.

Except you know something we don't, then by all means go on, but if you are basing this on hope, chai....

Mcy56:
Diamond is 73k 76k now. 2.4M bid against 14M offer.

Lol. I honestly wish the NSE had a way we could short some stocks, or probably something similar to a Credit default swap against them at least. Chai... NSE is heaven, optimism yapa.

OBAGADAFFI:
Price-to-earnings ratio = stock price / earnings per share

P.E = N18

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Bros! This calculation you are doing like this, lol!

kolaish:
for me, WAPCO has no fair price for now because of their debt burden, only Sentimental, Emotional and Solidarity Price

cc: currentprice

You sir, perfectly understands.

swilo:
What can turn around the predicament of Diamond Bank from bad to good?

Increased profits is the only thing, but looking at their history and current way of handling things, I don't see this guys in profitability anytime soon.

Infinitisi:
https://nairametrics.com/psb-licence-industry-sources-reveal-dmbs-worrisome-over-mtns-application/

Banks are worried they may lose customers to MTN
By Damilare Famuyiwa - November 26, 2018 4
MTN Mobile Money, CBN,


Nigerian Deposit Money Banks (DMBs), according to industry sources, are nervous following the recent announcement by telco giant, MTN of its readiness to apply for a Payment Service Bank (PSB) licence and launch mobile banking in Nigeria by the second quarter of next year.

As other telecommunications are also billed to go into mobile banking, the banks are worried that the MTN announcement, which came in the wake of the Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) release of guidelines on PSBs, would make the business environment, which was already tough for lenders, even tougher.

A senior industry player said with a PSB licence, MTN’s subscriber base of over 50 million clearly gives the telco an edge over banks.

UBA
“IN FACT, MOST OF THE MAJOR TELCOS CAN EASILY PROVIDE MOST OF THE SERVICES BEING OFFERED BY BANKS.”

The industry player further stressed that compared to banks, the telcos have a bigger budget and better technical know-how to drive mobile banking.

Nairametrics had last week, reported the MTN Group’s plans to apply for payment banking license in Nigeria and launch a service in the country by the second quarter of 2019.

The success story of mobile money in East Africa, pioneered by Kenya’s Safaricom, has convinced investors and the industry that financial services are the next growth area for telecoms to offset falling prices for basic services.

This is one of the greatest problems we have in the country, just because it works for others doesn't mean it will work for you. Focus on one thing and be better with it, mba they won't. Instead everyone will rush the same thing and turn it into a bubble and the next thing you know it crashes.

They have not finished providing good internet/data services that are reliable, or even affordable. Their voice call strengths are not yet powerful enough, yet they want to jump on banking because of greed. #Nonsense.

mendes911:
Anybody can fall mugu in this our market. Leave all these turenchi. It takes a second only for all those valuations to turn sour!.

The question here is knowing when to count your losses and run.

Business strength valuations just don't go sour overnight. But can price go sour overnight? Yes!

It's why Warren Buffet said, if you say bad things about assets I own and they go down in price, I will happily scoop up more. What he means is that he is confident in the intrinsic value of that stock, and if it goes below it he will scoop up more. Many here are too emotional for this market, my recommendation - mutual funds will be far better for them. I have been in far worse markets that were just speculative, and it's why I said this place is heaven.

I am not trying to be right here, I have no reason to be. What is the use of being right without making money? This is just an advice and an opinion. I will try not to say too much again though, I can see many are doing things differently, that is definitely good for me. To each his own.

mendes911:
I told you then that you wouldn't touch it if it gets to 80k.

Sorry Ma. That's NSE for you. We have all passed through one baptism or the other.

It is well.

But it's what I have always told people. If you were happy buying something at 1 naira, you should be happier x 2 to buy more at 50 kobo. If you are scared to buy, then it means you are not confident in the valuation you did to buy at 1 naira, it also means you have no confidence in that company again or it's ability to do better than now. My recommendation for anyone in this situation is to sell, because your holding it is only dependent on hope, and this is something I have learnt the hard way, hope is not a strategy. Guessing that something will be better is not a strategy.

I feel many here do guesswork and don't screen this companies enough. Why do people get MBA's? CFA's? Higher degrees? Why do people learn communication skills? Interview skills? Why do companies screen people to get the best ones to pick? Why don't people behave like that when picking this assets in return? Companies see their people as assets, and go to lengths to screen them, you should do the same too when you want to pick them as assets. Give them your own exams to write, your own interviews. Satisfy yourself and get that intrinsic value. If I wanted my company to be the best, would I allow all my workers to be given to me with just recommendations? Wouldn't the wise thing to do be to test them with things similar to the actual job?

I want to say more... I honestly do, but I will leave it at this for now.

mendes911:
Agba is there, trying to recover from his near death on CFD trading. He will soon talk.

Hahahahahahahha.

Blood everywhere. Chai. Horror movie.

ositadima1:
I heard these three countries; America, Russia and Saudi Arabia produce more barrels per day than other OPEC countries combined.

Does it mean these 3 countries now control crude prices? What are the implications on the Nigerian economy going forward? T.bills nko?

Tbill rates won't be the problem here, as it could get higher to attract foreign investors and hence more FX. But this means more inflation and more pressure on the buying power of the naira since majority of the country's income is from crude oil. This could also mean less dollars for CBN to use to save the naira. All in all, my advice is to hedge against it.

Many people talked about timing the market, my advice don't! Why not always split how much you put in Tbills and how much you put in Forex or USD? Slowly and gradually? To avoid a huge risk on both sides?

Also a way to earn Forex in GBP, EUR or GBP will be helpful.

That's my 1 kobo on this. Remember do not rush and throw large sums in USD or Something. Look at the long term, not the now. You are trying to preserve your buying power or make it better.

Hahahahahahahahaha....

I don laugh tire, even Bonanza gang is quiet.

I have a feeling this bear market will last for a while tighten your seatbelts guys.

OvaSabi1:
This is serious. And here I was, thinking the FG was thinking out of the box to finance their budget. Not knowing that they're thinking us into a box to sell us.
What do you think is in it for the customer? Will people be withdrawing their money from commercial banks and depositing into PSBs anytime soon?

I honestly don't know, but time will tell.

OvaSabi1:
I have an important question. Now that CBN has started granting PSB (payment service bank) licences to telecos and supermarket chains, how will this affect the discount rate on treasury bills? You will be asking how these 2 will relate, but if you go through the exposure draft, there is a requirement to maintain a deposit liability of at least 75% in FG treasury bills. And the minimum capital required is N5 billion. Just imagine several of these companies coming up and taking up treasury bills. Will this affect the discount rate?

Of course. If the fund is oversubscribed, CBN will have to do the needful by cutting rates to accommodate more funds. It has happened before, can happen again.

Though what I don't understand is why telcos want banking license. They have not finished creating seamless fast internet networks, good voice call strengths and affordable plans, they are running to financial systems. This is part of our problem in the country. Instead of focusing on one thing and doing it well, they become jack of all trades and a master of nothing. Just look at GT bank wasting their time with all the other nonsense they do. That is why what we call banking in Nigeria ends up not being the actual banking, childs play banking.

Mcy56:
Lol. See as the guy over-serious in his response.

He swilo'd me well.

DeRuggedProf:
At times it is very difficult to even be sure of what you own on NSE....
Why you own it should always be replaced with "I own you never to go below MY STOP LOSS, else, I disown you"
There are no good stocks anywhere, except those that rise....

Hahahahahahaha. Okay.

Infinitisi:
That na old school analogue investor. Modern day investors monitor their portfolios aggressively even if they are in for the long term.

Exactly! This is a solid point.

"Know what you own, and know why you own it." - Peter Lynch

mendes911:
So WAPCO was N115.00 just 4 years ago.

This business self.....

So a hardcore "investor" that bought a million units at N115m will be coming back now to meet his investment at mere N14m (before fees oooo).

KAI!

Lol. What did people expect? Buying something at x multiples it's book value and earnings potential. I am worried for people buying Nestle at this current price.

currentprice:
dont worry yourself brov, Swilo was only joking. moderator have much work to do than monitoring your post. what happen to you is just Auto-ban. check that word used before the ban, might be the cause

ah! dammit! I really entered this one! Swilo nice one (expect payback bro... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha), he swilo'd me well. Thanks for the heads up bro, so it's basically just bots? sigh I was swilo'd hook, line and sinker.

swilo:
Ok,

We will temper justice with Mercy56.

Just that 4 different moderators have been assigned to monitor you alone. So it is not my fault.

4 different Moderators? Why? Hahahahahaha

I must be doing something seriously wrong or something seriously right.

I repeat again, I want proof that I promoted c****o, or advertised it, or sent links to people, or told them to contact me or tried to get monetary gains on it. (Noticed I can't even write the name fully?, yes saying it can get me banned again!)

If this cannot be tendered I deserve an apology. This was done to me 3 times. All because I gave my opinion and some were so pained with it, that I needed to be banned. Is that not abuse of power? That is unfair to me as a person. Or don't the mods understand English language? Or what promoting something means?

In one of my post before the ban, I touted the NSE as heaven, and pointed out how c****o ruined people's lives and savings, how risky it was and how the NSE was very safe and heaven like. Is this the character of someone promoting something? There is clearly moderator bias, and there is nothing more counterproductive than a biased moderator. Like I said I have experience moderating myself on a larger scale!

Nigerians can argue all day long about the unfairness in the country, but alas if you look deeper you will see there is no difference between Nigerians in power and Nigerians that complain, even I am probably guilty, but partaining this case, I have been wronged not once but thrice.

BiafraIShere:
You just said my mind! The other poster that is contemplating whether to sell his property and invest in TBills and the insinuations some people made about TBill offering a better prospect made me consider my own situation and I discovered that property investment is better. In my own case, I bought a land @ 1.2 million in 2013 I.e 5 years ago and with sundry expenses like agent fee, ego omenala (tradition money) and power of attorney, everything amounted to around 1.5 million. Today, the market value of that same piece of undeveloped land is 3 million and I just leased it to a small branch of RCCG church to be paying 60k annually. So, if I had been investing in Treasury Bills since the past five years at say 14% interest rate, the maximum I could have gotten probably won't have exceeded 700k plus capital 1.5m which together is still significantly less than the 3m. So, I guess TBills is a great investment but property is better.

In this case, Tbills would have been far far better. You didn't think of the compounding of Tbills. That is a big mistake.

I will explain the truth about this real estate many people keep hyping.

Real estate is a risk in Nigeria, many of you just don't know it yet. Because you have been lucky with land doesn't mean others will be.

Let me tell you all a single fact, real estate normally should increase in value based on inflation, supply and demand. Guess what is affecting the price of real estate in Nigeria? Inflation is there, but it's definitely not demand. It's money laundering, especially in Lagos. Where do you think politicians and people with questionable jobs put their money in to avoid EFCC wahala? They buy this things up priced in dollars. Which sounds good and all, but a quick question, how many of you are itching to go and buy land now? How many Nigerians are? Salaries are the same, inflation and foreign exchange problems is killing people's buying power, unemployment is on the rise, yet land is becoming more expensive? Hahahahahahahahahahaha
Who will buy this lands you guys keep valuating? Where is the demand for it? You would think with Lagos over population people would be buying every land available anywhere.

Go and look at banks, and see how many lands they have and want to liquidate but there are no buyers. Ask Diamond bank, they have experience in this problem.

If the demand was high, why is there aggressive land marketing here and there? Why are the commission fees for selling it high?

Is real estate cool? Yes it is. You can get lucky with it, but let me drop another final bomb. You know why people think the Stock market is risky? It's because of instant gratification. Seeing the value of your stock asset drop in value, can be really problematic for emotional people and most of us are emotional, but here lies the problem many of you don't know the stock market mimics the normal market, the real estate market does too. So what you all see as safe in real estate is an Illusion. If lands were represented on a piece of paper and on a computer like stocks, I am sure many people would have died of heart attack. When you see the illiquidity and low demand with excess supply, enlightenment will surely come.

swilo:
16. Don't promote shady investments like betting, HYIP, MLM, FOREX, binary options, and cryptocurrencies on Nairaland or else we will ban

you again and this time throw the key into the ocean.

When did talking about c****o become promoting it? I have never advertised about it or posted links about it or told people to contact me. I have never spammed about it, I only gave my opinion about it. Or we can't have an intelligent discussion about it? I see others mentioning it without getting a ban. Why me then?

There are people who advertise and never get banned. I feel it's a prejudice against me from the Treasury bills thread that moved on up here, all because I gave my opinion about something. I know myself very well and I am a very principled guy. So the people who reported or banned me, should at least point out where I promoted it or advertised. If they can't, I deserve an apology from whomever is responsible. Feels like abuse of power to me. It's really annoying and unfair.

I want everyone to weigh in on this matter, it's the most unfair thing I have gone through on any platform. I have experience on social media moderation myself, when did talking about terrorism make you a terrorist?

At last! I am back. Lol! I don't know what I have done or who I offended in Nairaland. They are always banning me!

One moment I was quoting someone, the next moment I was banned.

IrokoOluwere:
It’s not 9am to 3pm o .
But 10am to 2:30pm .

Thank you for the correction sir. All join.

feelamong:
You call NSE heaven compared to Cryptos??

Hmmmm!

Lol! It is. In crypto people lose their life savings in seconds. Very brutal! In the NSE at least you can see some warning signs before everything goes wild.

I will say this again, NSE is heaven.


Lol! There is even opening and closing time! Una get break time for NSE. I.e. breathing time. Hahahahahaha. Monday to Friday, 9 am to 3pm. In crypto it is 24/7 Saturdays and sundays included. You will be shouting Hallelujah in church and your crytpo asset has lost 50% in 1 hour.
In crypto the market is always open! You go to sleep rich, you wake up poor, become poorer once the Asians and Americans wake up and start dumping more. Volume is not even good enough to sell at the current price you have already lost 60% in. Trust me, with the small lamentations I have seen in this Nairaland, and the people who talk and pretend but never buy anything, I say NSE is heaven, or the Treasury Bills people who think Money market funds are risky? (Hahahahaha), some even can't near stocks. I will say once again, NSE is heaven.

I can see what most of you call bear market in NSE and I laugh. Think of all the bear markets you know in Nigerian stocks and even the US dot com bubble, it's not still as bad as what crypto does. But then again, that is why there is so much potential to be a millionaire there. I mean millionaire in USD. That extreme volatility, that can make you or break you.

Yayira:
4 % is for what ? Commission?

Total charges for buying and selling is almost 4%.

And Yeah, commission is the bulk of it at over 60%.