₦airaland Forum

sonmvayina:
They used several sources like the writings of Josephus and ancient tales about Marduk....

I don't think Paul was a real person too. The works attributed to Paul are all works of Apolinius of tyna. It was edited probably by John chysostom.

Interesting. So where does all this leave Christianity because I have seen scholars claiming that Jesus himself never existed. You may like to express your views on this thread please.

I have written here that Paul's letter were written several years before the gospels which were written by nameless persons. It was the early fathers, elders and leaders of the early church that in their infinite wisdom that choose to affix these names to these books. It was by this same wisdom they decided which of the uncountable gospel stories floating around at this period in time made the cut and were included in the Bible.



It is of importance to note that Paul's missives that preceeded these nameless gospels (and I say this because Paul's name is attached to his letters.). Paul NEVER mentions very important points which are reflected in the gospels.
Paul never mentions :

1. The virgin birth ( mentioned in Mathew 1-2/ Luke1-2)

2.Paul never mentions the baptism of Jesus by John the Baptist. (Mentioned in Mark.1,Luke3,and John1)

3.Paul never mentions Jesus being tempted by Satan in the wilderness(mentioned in Mathew 4:1-11,and Luke 4:1-13)

4. Paul does not mention the Sermon on the mountain and rarely mentions Jesus' parable and teachings.( mentioned in Mathew 5.

5.Paul never mentions the feeding of 5,000 people, nor Jesus walking on water,nor the raising of dead persons.

6. Paul never mentions any triumphant entry into Jerusalem on a donkey.( mentioned in Mathew 21,Mark 11,Luke 19,and John 19.)

7. Paul never mentions Jesus trial before Pilate.

8. Paul does not mention the empty tomb or the women at the tomb( mentioned in Mark 16:1-8. Mathew 28:1-10,Luke24:1-12,and John 20:1-18)

So where do all these stories included in the gospels and regarded as cornerstones of Christianity come from??

Paul formerly known as Saul at around AD33-AD36 had an epiphany on the road to Damascus.
Acts 9:35

At this point in his life Paul realised
1. Jesus is his Lord.
2.Jesus is alive
3. Persecution of believers is persecution of Jesus who is his Lord.

4. Jesus is the son of God risen in power. He is not just a messiah,he is also a son of God made more powerful by resurrection.

5. Jesus is a crucified saviour.
1st Corinthians 1:23-25.
Romans 3:24-26.
Galatians 2:20

6. Jesus is a cosmic creator.
1st Corinthians 8:6
1st Colossians 1:15-17


7. Jesus is the new Adam.
Romans 5:18-19.
1st Corinthians 15:45

8. Jesus is the mediator and intercessor.
2nd Corinthians 5:19


Paul's view of Jesus which were later copied and embellished by the nameless writers of the gospels were the following facts;
1. Jesus is the risen son of God.
2. Jesus is divine Lord.
3.Jesus is a crucified saviour.
4. Jesus is a cosmic creator.
5.Jesus is the new Adam.
6.Jesus is a heavenly intercessor.
7. Jesus lives within every believer.

Be informed that the way the books of the New Testament appear in the Bible is not in any chronological order. In fact it is better in my opinion to read Paul's letters first and to understand his concept of Jesus before proceeding to read the gospels of Mathew,Mark, Luke and John because the undisputed letters of Paul were written several years before the gospels.

Timeline summary of Paul's letters vi's a viz the gospels.

1. AD48- AD 62; The undisputed Pauline letters(Galatians,Romans,Corinthians)

2. AD50-AD67: The disputed Pauline letters(Ephesians, Timothy)

3. AD 65-AD70- Gospel of Mark.

4. AD70-AD85-Gospel of Mathew.

5. AD80-90-Gospel of Luke.

6. AD90-100-Gospel of John.

Timeline Summary above shows which books were written first.
Jesus Christ himself wrote no books of his ministry. Paul wrote letters to the early church members. It was based on Paul's writing that the gospels were written by later writers and embellished.
Readers are free to do research on these issues raised in this thread.


To be continued.

First of all,none of the names on the four gospels in the Bible are the names of the writers of those books!
Mathew,Mark,Luke and John are not the names of the writers of those books. These names are pseudonyms of the unknown writers of those books.
None of these nameless writers were witnesses to the gospel stories they wrote about nor were they followers of Jesus.
Jesus himself did not write a single word in any shape or form about his work.
The writers of these gospels simply relied on oral traditions, myths, and the letters of Paul formerly known as Saul to create the content in their stories.

A saddening fact about Christians is a blatant refusal to search the origin of their religion. It is as if Christians have a morbid fear that researching the origins of stories they have held dear to heart will shake the foundations of all their beliefs.

On this thread we are going to attempt to research the origins of Christianity. If you are offended and not interested in knowledge you are free to stop reading at this point. If you are not offended and wish to gain a little knowledge then you are free to follow me down the rabbit hole.

Whatever is written in this thread can be freely cross checked and researched independently.

Lucifyre:
Nah they're not allegory, seeing as your first statement reflects the facts especially through critical textual lens, I'm surprised you're saying they're allegory.

P.S : While typing I think I found the answer to your view of allegory, correct me if I'm wrong. You're obviously a xtain who for some reason also accepts the facts from scholarship through textual critical analysis but you also need to make sense of your xtain beliefs ergo allegory.

I am not a Christian. Stop assuming things. Explain how you came to this conclusion and retrace your steps to read and understand my posts.
This is the issue I have with that Kobojunkie lady,always jumping in and assuming things. Never doing any research!

Meanwhile the earliest Pauline letters was written between AD 48 -AD50.(The epistle to the Galatians)
This information is everywhere but because of obstinate dogma of Christians they keep on spreading ignorance all over the place.

Dtruthspeaker:
Saul aka Paul had to first learn before he could preach. So the Bible's sequence is correct

The main problem I have with Christmas like you is the propensity to spew ignorance and falsehood as the truth. The Internet is free. Books have been written by scholars on thrse issues but Christians are scared to seek the truth about the origins of their religion and the Bible.
It is just embarrassing.
Just goggle the date the first letter of Paul was written vis a viz the first gospel was written.





While there's some debate about the exact dates, scholarly consensus points to Mark being the earliest. Several sources suggest that the Gospel of Matthew and the Gospel of Luke were written later, drawing upon Mark as a source, along with another hypothetical source called "Q". The Gospel of John is generally believed to be the last of the four canonical gospels, written some timebetween 90 and 110 AD.

Naaa waaa ooooo!!!!
How many monikers do some people have?
Is this not against forum rules?


😆🙃😂🤣😃😀

A sincere word of advise:TAKE ANYTHING PETER OBI SAYS WITH A PINCH OF SALT. HE HAS SEVERALLY PROVED HIMSELF TO BE THE FATHER OF LIES AND FALSEHOOD!

1. I have never met Abacha in my life.

2. I have never met Abacha,until that day.

3. Abacha banged his hand on the tabla,and pointed his finger at me,that I should be included in the task force.



Three different and divergent accounts of the same story by one person. Which account is true now?
The simple fact is that Peter Obi is an unrepentant, pathological liar. He tells so many lies that his memory fails to remember lies he has told before.
The fact is that Peter Obi was a military rule apologist and a military rule benefactor. While others were fighting for democratic rule,he was cozy in bed with General Sani Abacha. A confirmed money launderer for General Abacha.

Kobojunkie:
YOu made an unsubstantiated claim without even a lick of backing, and that is your answer? 🙄🙄🙄

Abeg, I am not in the mood for this nonsense today! Waka pass me! 🙄🙄🙄

Madam,
Retrace your steps up this thread. You engaged me first. Now because you hate the truth or because the truth does not tally with your beliefs and obstinate dogma, you are behaving like an ostrich.
I said do a research on the two questions I raised and you will discover that Paul's letters were one of the sources that Mark used to write his gospel before Luke and Mathew copied him and themselves.
Once again I advise you to do research.

Kobojunkie:
Are you simply here to go around in circles with me or something? 🙄🙄🙄

I already answered these questions, so why are you struggling to answer my one question?

Madam,
I have answered your question. You are the one dancing around into a cul-de-sac. The questions are simple. You are the one refusing to go down the rabbit hole.

Kobojunkie:
1. Where do you get this notion of yours from? What evidence do you have of this claim of yours?

2. I never had such thoughts, and I don't see what relevance they are to this discussion you have opened up.

I am asking you to re-think all you thought you knew. I have challenged your beliefs. There are two questions I have placed before you.
1. Are the names on the gospels the real names of the authors of those books?
2. Which came first: (a) Paul's letters OR (b) the gospels of Matthew,Mark,Luke,and John?
Do your research. It is not a difficult task.

Kobojunkie:
Sigh! 🙄🙄
I answered your question. Now proceed to answer mine.

What makes you think your ideas regarding the man named Paul came before the Gospels? Let's start with that instead.

Paul's letters had been circulating amount early Christians years before the Gospels were written. I understand that it is very difficult to adjust your mind from what you learned from your youth.
I will ask you another question,do you think the gospels were written by the persons whose names are attached to them as authors?
Do you really think those books were written by persons named,Matthew,Mark,Like and John?

Kobojunkie:
Who wrote first? The evidence we have points to the Gospels(at least one or two) being written before Paul came into the picture as a preacher.

What year were the gospels written and what year were Paul's missives written? Forget the sequence in which these books appear in the Bible.
Do proper research and don't rely on the misinformation you have received since childhood.

Kobojunkie:
What makes you think your ideas regarding the man named Paul came before the Gospels? Let's start with that instead.

Answer my question first.
Who wrote first?
Paul's letters or the writers of the gospels?

Kobojunkieee:
Did you bother to read his post at all? OP already confirmed in his writeup that he reads backward like you do.

Reading a book backwards does not boost comprehension; it instead fuels confusion. A parable is a type of allegory, but not all allegories are parables.

IWhy not disregard bibliography and tell me which came first?
The true Pauline missives or the gospels?

Good day.
If you really want to understand the Bible I suggest you read backwards.
Start from the seven confirmed Pauline letters of :
1. Galatians
2. Romans
3.1st Corinthians
4. 2nd Corinthians
5. Philemon.
6. Philippians.
7. 1st Thessalonians

Then

Mark.
Mathew.
Luke.
John.


Most of these stories are allegory.
Once you accept this everything else falls into place.

Godjone:
Tinubu crippling people's businesses with his anti-business and anti-peoople policies. The Baron is only good in sneefing coc and looting in trillions

Are you saying a debtor should not pay back the loan he took from a bank or are you just ignorant of the facts of this case?

Afrobasic:
You are absolutely right. This country is for SW and North. SS and SE are outsiders.

One day sha. This contraption would eventually collapse.

So in your wisdom a person should loan billions of Naira from a bank and refuse to pay back?
Tomorrow if the bank where you kept your small change folds and liquidates and your money is lost you will start blaming the Federal government. You will forget that the bank folded and collapsed because your towns man took a loan from the bank and refused to pay.
Ignorance that stems from rabid tribalism.

Peter Obi has always been a pathological liar. Let him tell the people about the PROFESSIONAL IMPORT DUTY ADMINISTRATORS(PIDA) set up by General Abacha to duplicate the functions of the Nigeria Customs Service.
These PIDA group were in the sea ports on a Decree to wait for the revenue from import and export duty collected by the Customs and then extract a large percentage for themselves on behalf of Abacha.
Obi certainly has a lot of questions to answer on how he aided General Abacha's looting spree in the sea ports.

Christistruth03:
Too many lies

No be Peter Obi be this?


Are you now telling us he was lying against himself?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUCRQBkV0t4?si=q8UFpnVFbHPHR0zd

Peter Obi tells so many lies that he sometimes forgets them. He is a proven pathological liar.
I insist that Peter Obi was in charge of the group called PROFFESSIONAL IMPORT DUTY ADMINISTRATORS which operated under the acronym PIDA.
This PIDA was a body created by General Sani Abacha to duplicate the functions of the Nigeria Customs Service and they were then paid a large percentage of duty generated.
In other words this PIDA group headed by Peter Obi was a bureaucracy organisation of Abacha boys legally appointed by the go ernment to act as a watch dog to revenue generated by the Customs and then fraudulently take a percentage of the revenue generated . This is revenue that should have gone to the Nigeria government purse but was being scammed into private pockets .
Peter Obi was in charge of this fraudulently activity at Tin can Island sea port!

GothamCities:
Can you define robbery? If someone robbed somebody, is it the robbed that committed robbery or the robber?

Tamar rejected her brother's advances but being weaker, was forced and raped. How can you accuse her of incest when she didn't make the move or willfully engaged in it?

Mr Gothamcity,
Is this not you?
Or were you coming in from fighting The Joker,the Penguin and Batman?
I don't like talking to people who have very short attention spans. A written discussion that happened this morning is being denied by the same person this evening.
I have wasted enough time on you.

GothamCities:
Tamar was raped by her brother. She didn't commit any incest.

Gothamcities,
Is this quote not from you or were you just coming in from Gotham City when you typed this statement!

GothamCities:
Yeah, Judah. That was just an oversight.

Your too know attitude is appalling. Please stay humble. There's nothing praiseworthy in pride. My apology is a reflection of humility and not inferiority of knowledge. I've probably read the Bible cover to cover many more times than you do. It is not uncommon to have slight oversights.

Please humble yourself.

Shalom.

Says a person that jumped on my comment trying to lecture me about incest and its application in everyday usage in English language.....lol😁

Secondly your empty booast that you have read the Bible from cover to cover several more times than me is just an attempt to score cheap beanie points. It is not how many times you read but did you comprehend what you claim to have read. However from your attitude on this thread I seriously doubt this.
As I told you when all this back and forth began this is Nairaland.com where the wrong poster always claims to be right and you come across as a typical example of this.
It is no big deal to accept you do not know something because that is the simplest way to attain knowledge.Several times during this exchanges I posted Bible books,chapters and verses but in your know it all attitude,you refused to check these passages and kept on blundering all over the thread.
And as per your jibe about reading the Bible several times more than me,I just chuckle and laugh out loud because from your performance on this thread,I assure you that where your knowledge of the Bible ends is where my own knowledge begins.
My last response to you on this minute issue.

GothamCities:
Oh, my bad!

You're talking about the one that seduced Jacob her father-in-law, pretending to be a prostitute.

I apologize for the misconception.

Jacob keh!
Okay ooo.
I give up.....😆😆😆

The name of the father in law is Judah.
You need to calm down so you don't get these names twisted.
The story is in Genesis Chapter 38.

GothamCities:
Can you define robbery? If someone robbed somebody, is it the robbed that committed robbery or the robber?

Tamar rejected her brother's advances but being weaker, was forced and raped. How can you accuse her of incest when she didn't make the move or willfully engaged in it?

Oga,
Nobody is talking about the Tamar in 2nd Samuel Chapter 13 who was abused by her brother Amon.

The Tamar we are talking about is found in Genesis chapter 38 who disguised herself as a prostitute to engage in incestuous relationship with her father in law Judah.

Argument is NOT knowledge. Educate yourself please. The Bible is a vast book and many names are mentioned in different books severally. I expect you to read the different chapters mentioned and enlighten yourself and while at it try to understand the concept of incestuous relationships. Incest is not judged on guilt but sexual relationships between same family members.However I won't be surprised if you come back with more arguments after all this is Nairaland.com where the WRONG is always the RIGHT!