₦airaland Forum

nateevs:
Do you really think they will come back under JM to the team? You've seen Pasalic haven't you? Do you or do you not think that this dude can definitely do 30 mins here and there without compromising the overall quality of the team?

Under JM, these guys will all suffer the fate of Tomas Kalas.

I've seen those ninjas play and I believe they're good to stay with us.

The club deserve the blame here. They know Mou isn't a proponent of youth integration yet they brought him on board.

So unless there's a mandate by the club to Jose to develope our own talents, there's no way we would blame Mou for what's happening to the youth, he has never been a fan of youth integration.

For the records, I'm following the progress of Ake, Christensen and Pasalic.

I see Monaco's, Gladbach's and Watford's games cos of the lads.

nateevs:
You have not been paying attention obviously. We are no going to win the league. Neither would we win the CL. We will most likely be bundled out of the CL at the first serious hurdle. So no revenue coming in.

We are going to need to spend close to £100m to make this team finish in a decent spot. Amortize £100m over say 5 years' contract for whoever is bought and that alone is already a £20m deficit this season (or not, because it's mid-season purchase but some will be due).

Next year, many will consider even the £100m not enough (especially if Jose is allowed to spend it - you can bet he blows it on only Pogba and Stones) and there will be need for even further spending.

Now imagine the fact that we not have finished in the top four. That means no CL revenue next season. And another £20m amortizaton fee is due, plus whatever we spend more. This is perspective man! Real life football. Not this fantasy you guys are perpetuating! Like. . . We are financially sound without considering the FACTS!

Good thinking sire but too many Ifs.

nateevs:
But with your own logic, you fail to realise that someone is actually bank-rolling it to the tune of £1bn. And that the logic by itself is unsustainable without the injection of some major funds and the rather extraterrestial benevolence emanating from the young Russian.

How would you define this 'commercialization to stay relevant' if Roman did not wipe off over £700m of debt? Do you think you will be here telling me I don't know the impact of commericials on success?

Mate you cannot tell me about the financial side of the game. Thousands of arguments have happened here between Coogar, Myself and Ibime over the years about the commercial side of the game.

I think you don't really understand the position we are in. You guys have either forgotten or were not aware enough to understand the impact at the time of occurence. We should be eternally grateful to Roman.

Let me tell you how financials work in real life and not in the Chelsea bubble. Conside a Chelsea that hardly makes profits and then we have £700m worth of debt hanging over our heads and we need to service that debt, do you know how much we have to pay annually at only 4% of interest? Ibime will tell you. He's the CIMA guy.

You will be the one offering to drive the 'inexperienced kids' to Stamford Bridge and then returning home to your TV, screaming at it, wondering why the kids have not made it yet.

So when I tell you that your POV is only propped up by our fortunate stance, BELIEVE IT!

Oga we're financially sound, so do spare me this wall street retreat.

Roman's early approach to running Chelsea was reminiscent of Jay Gatsby's approach to throwing a party but that's all history now. We're grateful that he had to offset our standing debt, but that's also history now. So I don't see the need to bring up the man past benevolence in a discourse that concerns the present - a present we're dealing with nicely.

We don't need to fill the team with youngsters just to curb our spending, instead, a continuation of a savvy transfer policy and a seeking out of more lucrative sponsorship is the way to go.

Our last year's summer transfers was certainly more nuanced than a manic splurge on the biggest names, we even recorded an £18.4m profit.

We've been frugal and you know it. Except there are other reasons why you so much want the integration of the youth, I don't see this as a reason.

Here's a piece of goodnews for all ice-cream loving Chelsea fans.

Zola has got something creamy on sale for y'all in Bromley.

So anyday you find yourself in south london, just know the cafe to be.

According to Marca, Ronaldo has admitted he's open to working with Mourinho again.

Metro on the other hand has it that Higuan would be joining us in January.

Something is ticking.

coogar:
of course, he woulda enjoyed some success over the years but it doesn't mean keeping the youths wouldn't have gotten him success too if he had gotten the mixing right!

the "groom & keep" policy didn't contribute to arsenal's poor run. wenger never got the team balance right. besides, his tactics, his goalkeeper blind spot, etc all contributed to his failure.

remember arsenal were building a stadium & they had to be prudent for many years. relying on youth was inevitable. the only issue was wenger overrelied on them.

I can't help but think that the claim about inbalance is mere conjecture.

You and nateevs are only pushing this b'cos you two think it is how it should be. Nateevs' claim that one ready made defender and striker coulda struck the balance.

Now Is there any evidence or even a case study to prove that is true?

Most championship winning sides were made up of established stars with one or two graduates in the mix, how it's the other way round amazes me.

Coog let's go extreme with logic.

coogar:
you are making nateevs' point!

wenger's "over reliance" is the problem not his reliance. wenger didn't get the right-mix of youth players and the ready made players - that's one of the reasons why he's failed.

I admit that i'm making his point there.

In event where the entire team was made up of established stars, don't you think Arsenal coulda enjoy some success over the years?

If yes, don't you then think that the claim 'groom and keep' policy contributed to Arsenal's poor run is valid in this discourse?

Unfortunately, the Nigerians that fly the first class aren't into snapping pics.

Hehe

Two things are for sure, she isn't going home with the artiste neither is she going home with me.

Heck I'm single too.

nateevs:
I am not a huge fan of Arsene Wenger but this 5h1t must go down as the most perpeutated myth in the whole world. Wenger did not get youth policy wrong. What Wenger failed to do is balance. One will be mad to say Wenger's trusting of Fabregas at the time didn't yield a world class player. What he failed to do is go out there and get a ready made Defender and striker for the much needed balance.

Isn't it funny that when folks want to shut down the Youth argument, they turn to 'Wenger's failed policy?'

And to the question 'why do we need youth?, I repeat again. Count yourselves lucky mate.

No offense but you young and new folks are supporting Chelsea with the 'new money' so I can understand this pride that goes with a seemingly annoying sense of entitlement; the one responsible for the "we need ready-made material" statements. Because just like the half-baked analysis with Arsene Wenger, folks just somehow forget to realise that Roman has covered losses for up to a decade to the tune of over £1bn. And that in another life, with another owner, much of the injected funds will not have happened. Then we will be forced to plug that hole somehow yet still compete. How do you plug the hole? By doing what other clubs do - giving youth a chance. And yes I mean even the inexperienced ones.

Why do we need youth? You folks need to get a proper dose of reality. I hope Roman refuses to spend money for 3 years.

The question, 'why do we need youth', was asked to illustrate a bigger point, I hope you see through it.

Being a young fan doesn't negate the fact that commercialization is the order of the day in football and that you must spend to win laurels, any vet who's yet to grasp that has a lotta work to do saving himself from himself.

Look, we'd all be glad to have some graduates in our first team. Neither Nihilist, Ibime, Lalaboy or myself is against that integration. The one question that has gone unanswered is, how ready are the lot that must be integrated?

It's nearly silly to be clamoring for the integration of lads who lack good work ethic, character and unrivalled skillset.

And yeah, I don't care about what you think but I strongly believe, Wenger's over-reliance on unseasoned chaps is the major reason he failed to land a major silverware.

coogar:
the FA is the real issue with academy kids and stuff. the entire structure in england is rotten and it should never be compared to spain or germany.

for instance, the kids in barcelona(barca team B) play in the second division. in england, it's called a reserve league where the quality of football is substandard.

you can imagine chelsea kids playing in the championship league, by the time they play 44 league games in one season, they would be super ready for the premier league.

Healthy perspective.

PietroRico:
Young players come with a lot of baggage and can very likely be too costly for any team serious about challenging for trophies
And they are best brought GRADUALLY, a few at a time when there's a considerable amount of stability in the side
Those advocating for them to be thrown into the deep at this point in time for Chelsea don't entirely understand what they are asking for...

The best 11 of the players whom many of you are so convinced are ready ( Solanke, Baker, RLC, Christensen and all the other names u keep bandying about ), will struggle against a half decent championship side

U can't be comparing your youth to that of Barcelona
Those ones play real football, with real clubs in the Liga adelante, not some crappy u21 set up

Thank you.

Bimffo:
You don't just become experienced over night. To be a good player, You need playing time. You have to play and play. Not just sit on the bench for 5 weeks and when we get play C1C, You get to play. It doesn't work that way.

The loan option is your answer, and I believe we've been giving it the best of shots.

You don't test-run a new engine on a busy highway. You don't test a microphone in the middle of a rendition. Brah you don't test a player amid a title chase.

Bimffo:
Dont bring RLC and Mikel into the same statement. Mikel never played Top football at 19. When he got to Chelsea, He was already 25. RLC just needs to work on his defensive side and he needs time, He has the pace.

Football age aside, at 19, Mikel was the subject of a protracted controversial transfer between Chelsea and Manyoo, RLC is nowhere near that headline.

RLC's work ethic is in question, he's shown that over and over again. I can't rate such kid.

Bimffo:
I agree with this. But a Club like Spurs operates on a groom and sell economy. Why cant we operate on a groom and keep economy.? I can't just imagine How much Kane will cost after 5 Years if he is not hampered by injury.7

Groom and keep policy is the sole reason Arsenal haven't won the league title in god-knows-how-many-years.

Now why do you need the youth?

If we're grooming the youth to win us laurels, there are proven players out there to do that. If we're grooming the youth to resell them for a bigger fee, then we have the loan option to help us out, we have good instances of how efficient the loan option can be in Lukaku and KDB.

Bimffo:
Ozil, Sanchez, Cech started as Kids! They developed.

Oezil won nothing massive at Bremen, Sanchez won nada massive at Udinese, Cech won nothing massive at Rennes.

So there you are, elucidating my point.

Bimffo:
Not all your Youth players will make it to the 1st team but some of them will. Barca may has digressed but they still fields Munir, Sergio Roberto and Batra. Bayern has not stopped giving Youth a chance.

We need to be on a satisfactory level before prioritizing youth integration. Barca and Bayern are on that level, are we?

Bimffo:
Agreed. They are over hyped. But Not all.

We can count the real talents England has got.

Bimffo:
We cant make transfers till December, I say give me those Kids abeg. If the older ones dont want to give their all. Give me Traore, RLC, Kennedy. I think I will love to see Chelsea lose under these players than those Older nonentity.

This is you fantasizing. No pragmatic under-fire manager would look up to the unexperienced lads in times like these.

Bimffo:
We cant get transfer till January.. Fabregas, Hazard, Costa should sit the hell down! I will rather use my Young inexperienced motivated players, than Old lazy fãgs that dont care about the batch.

I refer you to my last post.

sephia:
A brave general should deploy his less experienced soldiers when losing a war and especially when his more experienced soldiers have chickened out.
What do we have to lose? We lose almost every game these days so it couldn't get worse.

A lot of people would be disappointed in Jan. I don't see Roman splashing out any reasonable cash. We still have one of the best squads in the league.

Oh Bluediva which war movies have you been seeing? You're better off working with the yellow fever team

You can't mastermind a tactical victory by sending out your less experienced wards when u're in a losing position, any general that does that is not brave, he's naive.

When u're losing both in football and in war, you'd need character to bounce back, sweetie such character doesn't lie with the less experienced bunch.

Even if as a commander-in-chief you refuse to surrender when u're losing, you'd still need your best men to help you roll out a siege warfare.

If we consider fielding less experienced chaps like RLC and Kennedy in these torrid times, then that might just be us opting for a nuclear option that would see us move from bad to worse.

We need to start grinding out results with what we have now, [siege], till January, when we splash out again [frontal attack].

sephia:
I agree with you. The logic behind buying youths outside and neglecting yours is silly.

Kennedy and Loftus Cheek are far better than a whole lot of first team players at the moment.

It's not entirely silly. When your position in the strata of football places a demand on you to keep winning titles, you 'temporarily' drop the idea of youth integration and snap up that which have been developed by an average side who don't get the pressure to keep winning laurels.

It's a sad thing and I feel bad that we have to keep repeating the ugly circle, but then again, this is what comes with trying to establish yourself as a big football franchise.

Bimffo:
Dele Alli of Spurs is 19 and he is playing an impressive role at Spurs right now but No, RLC is too Young and inexperienced.

What is Ramires doing in the starting Line Up that RLC wont do. RLC can even do better passes than Ramires.

But I wont talk. Nah. I won't complain again.

Brah you need to slow your roll on this RLC matter.

When the ninja was given the opportunity to perform and stake a solid claim for a first team place, he graciously fluffed it.

We saw him start against Westbrom and Liverpool last season, and we also saw him constantly getting overran by the opposition players and how he made Mikel look like Usain Bolt.

Clubs like Spurs who give playing chances to young fellas, operate on a ''groom and sell'' economy. They buy these kids who ofcourse wins them nothing, at a cheaper price, feature them in a couple of games, and have their transfer value sky-rocketed.

The likes of Spurs don't mount a serious title challenge cos they don't have the materials to do so. You don't chase a title playing with pack of kids. Wenger have been trying that for aeons and have been failing woefully at it hence the recent acquisitions of Sanchez, Ozil, Cech etc.

Barca now trusts the MSN more than any La masia's graduate. Bayern would still splash cash to acquire Vidal and Costa, when they could have easily promoted a CM and a winger from Bayern II.

I sincerely have nothing for most English talents, they're usually products of hype who fail to live up to billing at the big stage.

Moreover, I don't think this is the best period to agitate for kids' integration.

We're in a dire position and we could use some notable signings in the winter transfer window, the kids can't do nada now.

You don't deploy your less experienced soldiers when you're losing a war.

Nihilist:
Where you missed it is comparing to Chelsea to Barca, Manyoo, Bayern etc.

In terms of trophies won, those guys are the elite of the Europe.

They can afford to sacrifice a few seasons as the cost blooding in new youngsters.

We don't have that luxury. You must not forget that these guys are the benchmark. They are who we want to be.

We are the ones chasing the sheer amount of success they have achieved.

What you're suggesting is the equivalent of a O-Level holder taking a break in his education because he saw a PhD holder doing so.

We cannot afford to do that. Ignoring our poor position on the log sef, we are competing with City, Arsenal, PSG, and co to be seen as the leaders of the new school.

Arsenal that was the most pro-academy team in the EPL has only 1 genuine academy in their first team.

No stories at this level my G. If Arsene Wenger can forsake his philosophy, then the youth theory is dead. RIP

P.s Bamford is not even 3rd choice striker at Palace. They sold Glenn Murray and Bamford is still rooted to the bench. Pardew prefers a 9 goal a season beanpole up front. Bamford can play on either flank too...but he's behind a championship level winger on the bench too.

I don't want to say I told you guys so but...sorry Bimmfo_rd

A bottle of Guinness for my niggi someone.

nateevs:
And how would you have known this if someone somewhere did not decide to give them that chance at some point? Answer is NO WAY!
I think that just summarizes Bimfo's general point.

You're missing the point sir. I'm not saying these lads don't deserve a shot at the big stage, what I am saying is that it's difficult for Chelsea to find a good environment where these chaps would go to hone their skills.

If Aina or Colkett were to spend a full season on loan at Barnet - a conference side, would you deem them good enough to feature in our plans for a new BPL season?

The top sides who're willing to accomodate these inexperienced ones aren't always knocking on our door 'cos it's a nuclear option. Chelsea as a franchise on the other hand want the best for these lads, hence we don't entertain every loan offer that come our way.

The likes of Christensen, Ake and Pasalic are fortunate enough to be where they are today. It's a matter of who's willing to have an unproven Aina or Colkett in his plan, it's a matter of 'where is the somewhere'?

Bimffo:
I say we loan Musonda out for now.

We should not do the mistake of selling him.

In fact, 80% of our boys from Baker's set should be allowed to fight for a shirt. Those boys are good. Baker, Aina, Collket, Abraham, Boga, Mosunda, Solanke. Just give them a chance!

Not every club is willing to bring on board an inexperienced lad on loan. They'd rather buyout his clause and groom him to their own satisfaction.

So it's nearly difficult for us as a club to find 'reputable' clubs who're willing to have these inexperienced lot on loan, it's just difficult.

Lest you forget, not every prospects makes it to the top. Most of these chaps look impressive now 'cos they're up against their mates, pitch them against their superiors and watch as they saulter (we have a good example in RLC).

So if you're looking at giving some kids playing time at Chelsea, you should be looking at chaps like Christensen, Pasalic and Ake, chaps who are holding down first team shirts at average good sides like Monchengladbach, Monaco and Watford.

Aina, Colkett et al are just names.

Musonda is a wanted man.

Who's paying Monaco to annoy Chelsea?

Willian player of this disappointing season already for me.

nateevs:
Actually I will be treating it as just another game. We will never get that much space in the opposition back line in a PL game. JM is still bent on fielding Ramires and that means a whole lot of wayward passes.

Plus Diego is drifting to the left still. WTF is that about?

That must be one hell of an annoying pre-match instruction.

He's a big centre-forward who's supposed to remain in the box and provide the physical presence that'll unsettle the defenders. It's akin to watching Drogba working the channels.