Myer:


Jesus came to save the israelites from the yokes of the Pharisees and Saducees with their doctrines of men.

He clearly won't worship in most of the churches today since they've been overiden by doctrines of men.

The things Jesus preached against are being exalted in these churches- Titles, Love of money, Hypocrisy, etc.

How do you know God has not set Kobojunkie on this path?
You have preached to him yet the Holyspirit has not convicted him about it.
Don't mistake the written scriptures and the working of the Spirit. Is that not why the Pharisees/Jews persecuted Jesus and his disciples?

I'm not saying he's right or wrong. Just your back and forth on this issue is becoming distracting.

Bro, you must have a conviction. Dont be a fence sitter. When you cant say if he is wrong or write or if i am worng or right, then you dont have a conviction on this topic.


Secondly, i have told you to stop generalizing things.

He clearly won't worship in most of the churches today since they've been overiden by doctrines of men.

The above is a bogus statement.

How many churches do you know
How many have you worshipped in
How many do you know practice all you listed above.
How many places do you even know as a person to use the word MOST CHURCHES.

You carry so much assumptions in your words as such. A Christian dont exaggerate. Exaggeration was the root of murmuring and disobedience in the wilderness towards Canaan. It is godly to be concise and reserved. It is call being truthful.


Lastly, i know God didnt set Kobojunkie on this path, because you wont find God in a system that seek to destroy and scatter but in honor to authority and His church. You dont need a research to know this Bro.

HedwigesMaduro:


Can the Bible teach a topic and still go against the topic by the events which depict the topic?

The bible cant but YOU can. Yes, a PERSON can misinterpret either the teaching or the events or both. This is the reason i asked you to explain bible teaching on this.

But why taking it long. Arent there teaching in scriptures? All i asked for is a teaching that support your interpretation.

So, does the teaching of tongues in the scriptures support YOUR interpretation of the event you pointed or YOUR conclusion on tongues? If yes, show the teaching and explain. That is all i asked for.

Kobojunkiee:
I don't stand against my Master's teachings ... I stand instead against the doctrines and traditions of men, which my Master declared were lies told to deceive and steal that which ought to belong to my Master.

God declared that in His New Covenant, He alone is Shepherd/Teacher/ Master/ authority over all those who belong to Him. Jesus Christ, the New Covenant, came teaching the same Truth.

Bro, the Master is speaking to you, harken. You aren't practicing what he practiced. A disciple will mimic his master. Mimic, means to become a carbon copy of your Master. How he speaks, walk, act, react, relate etc. But you are relating your own doctrine. This is not Jesus way.

Kobojunkiee:
Open that book to the 4 Gospels and read it for yourself so you learn the truth of God from the lies you have been fed by the fraudsters posing as shepherds anointed by God.

Ezekiel 34, God declares Himself against them. If you use your head, you will reason that it God is against them, then nothing they do in His name is true.

Bro, it is your teaching that is against God. Your teaching intend to put to naught that which God seek for. I have told you before, you have to repent from this. A servant doesn't stand against him Masters practices. You are standing against that which was seen in Christ and God all through the scriptures.

HedwigesMaduro:


Point I can't defend? Did you understand your post at all. I gave you an event in the Bible which showed speaking in tongues involved human languages, and you said I couldn't use an event to prove it, but a teaching. In case you don't understand what you're hitting at let me help you: you were insinuating that the teachings in the Bible are contradictory to the practical events that happened based on said teachings. I don't know how you expect me to take you seriously with that notion.

Please go back and read what i wrote not what is on your mind. Sometimes we end up reading our mind because we arent properly reading what is written.

I said give me a teaching in the Bible. You started speaking for me on contradiction of scriptures. Did you see that in what i wrote?
Why is it hard to point to a teaching in the Bible on tongues?

---

Does the bible teaches tongues? YES
At least we have 5 different chapters where tongues was taught, we have at least 4 different chapters mentioning tongues as events. 8 chapters never had such explanations or teaching of tongues as human lanaguage.

---

So, why cant you show me one of the teaching as human language? Is it hard to show or it wasnt taught at all as human language. So, why creating issues with this.

I asked again,
Give me a teaching that taught tongues as human language in all the teaching of tongues in the Bible, you dont need to create issues with that. Why cant you point to a single teaching if bible teaches tongues. Or does that mean you already know there is no teaching on human tongues? So, what was taught then? This is what i asked you do to. Dont rush to conclusion of contradictions. Its your thought not mine.

So, where does the scriptures teaches tongues as human language in all its teaching. This is simply what i asked you to do, we dont need a forth and back argument, just point to a teaching and explain please.

Kobojunkie:
From the passage below, explain to me how by using the word "church", Jesus Christ in fact means Jesus Christ commands a literal gathering of people like what you have in your churches today as you continue to suggest?

You are the one who has an explanation to make Sir.

Jesus says tell it to 2 or 3. I am sure you know he isnt talking about gossip but a people coming together to handle issue.

He said "tell it to the church".

He said what 2 or 3, or the church, shall AGREE.

Vs 20 shows you how that agreement happens.

He said "where 2 or 3 ARE Gathered IN MY NAME.

---

Pay attention to this .

What is the gathering for?
To agree, to do, to act on the same thing. A unity of purpose, not a gist squad.

Why do they gather?
To bear witness, witness of the same thing, same purpose, this applies same to witness of Christ. Christ work was affirmed, in the mouth of 2,3, other gathered. The 2, the 3, the church is a gathering of Jesus witness.


Bro?
Was there a gathering? Yes. And his presence among us.

Did Jesus called it His Gathering? Yes. IN MY NAME.

Are we to gather In His Name? Yes. To agree, to have same purpose, to affirm what is right.


Was it the same gathering as we have today? You are the one to explain this as you know where your feet has taken you to, to see what is not Christ gathering.

As for me, I only know of the gathering of believer in different places all around the world, in agreement of purpose, to serve, to witness.
Whether they are 2,or 3 or many. Christ among us.

Kobojunkie:
Your churches, your pastors, your gatherings are not of God. I already made it clear to you that Jesus Christ commanded none of it and since God is not a man that He should lie, neither the son of man that He should change His mind, I will continue to believe God in everything.

Instead of rambling on and on and throwing accusations here and there, why not bring yourself down and actually engage, meaningfully, if you truly believe what you have to say holds ground where scripture is concerned.

Jesus Christ is the New Covensnt Law Promised us by God Himself, the very Law /contract we have from God where the Kingdom of God is concerned...His teachings, the Truth of God and the standard by which we are all to be Judged. If you have a problem with that, then I can see why you would have a problem with me and what I say. If you do not, then you should be able to intelligently counter my claims of His teachings, and need I add, without trying to impose your interpretation on what is stated in scripture.

Bro, stop moving around in circle.

I have asked you to point to instruction in the scripture that abhor Christian gathering. Arent you seeing your disobedience. It's sad it isn't obvious to you.

A practice so loud in the Bible. so practiced by your lord, and you are confident in standing against it. And still have the boldness to call yourself Jesus disciples. Do you know who a disciple is at all.

Something is influencing you Bro.


Do you even know what the word 'church' means in itself as used in Bible. If you do, you will know God's mind to gathering,

You see words like:
Disciple
Church
Two and Three witness
Etc

Matthew 18:15-20 showed you a pattern of how a believer handles issues, he mentioned a gathering of 2, 3, tell to church). Was Jesus refering to party gathering.

You saw all these and you can't even know it's import or implication.


Shey é nka Bible shá or you are just strong will to stand against God's will. Bro repent jor.

HedwigesMaduro:


Ok. I got your point. Let's throw away the events in the Bible as they are irrelevant. Only teachings should be focused on. Thanks. But no thanks.

I am not sure how you read my quote, but I hope it's not right to left because I am wondering where your response point to.

But if that's what you got, I am not responsible.

But next time don't raise point you can't defend from the scriptures.

Thank you Sir.

Kobojunkie:
I am going to assume that by bringing in Jesus Christ command there, you are in fact addressing sin and not some silly human issues here.

So, Jesus Christ's command to His followers is " Be ye holy even as your father in Heaven is holy/perfect". So, if a man who claims to be a follower of Jesus Christ has yet to do what Jesus Christ commanded of him, why should anyone listen to whatever he has to say?

Was Jesus Christ off Hia rockers to commanding that all of His followers BE perfect?
Did Jesus Christ give a false statement there?

If No, then why do you suggest that people even listen to and forgive a man who is meant to teach the Truth of God but has himself not be set free by the same Truth of God -assuming we are actually speaking of sin here ?

Why are you willing to lower the standard set by God (assuming you realize that holiness means living above sin) Himself just so people can be pacified in this?

On the issue of righteous, only those who accept and obey the teachings of Jesus Christ can attain that level of worthiness, and no one still struggling with sin gets there. John 8/14/15.

Bro, it should be obvious to you that you are the one proclaiming what the Bible never teaches. And this had gone round in your views and explanation. The OP may not have presented a perfect explanation but his words are clear enough to show you God's desire from the scriptures.

The more you stay this narrative of yours, you aren't in obedience to God's word as I have told you before now.


A walk in the spirit cannot bring scattering but a gathering of believers. There is so much wrong that you will need to sit and relearn on this.

You can't be pushing a self desire and then select scriptures to support such wrong attitude.

The church, the gathering of believers are God's instructions and practices of the Bible. In fact, it is God's wisdom for believers growth.

There is so much to miss if you continue this track Bro.

Myer:


You obviously don't believe the Bible.
A person says he's a follower of Christ yet you're not satisfied until he's a follower of hoopernikao right?

If you believe the Bible you will leave him for the Holyspirit to convict. Or can you do the work of the holyspirit more than the holyspirit?

But we both know your intention is not to minister but to always prove you're right and everyone else is wrong.

Bro throw away your emotional blackmail, it has lost relevance this days. Focus on what is stated. Because soon now you will be claiming you are being judge yet you carry the septre of judgment everywhere you go.

Bro, please focus and stop throwing emotional stick.


So focus on below.

---

Does the Bible teaches against Christian gathering. This is what is important.

I never in any of my post says Kobojunkie is a believer or not, i call him brother for a reason not a loose word. Yet Bible did not teach that you leave those who preach error in doctrine to the holy ghost to handle. It's a lazy way of neglecting reality of the Bible.

A disciple of Christ will practice all that Christ do. That is what discipleship means. And that's what I pointed him to. Are you having challenges with that.

The disciples of Jesus didn't leave the early error doctrine preacher to the holyghost they correct them, gave instruction to withstand some, and to avoid some. So, I expect your unease when challenged on a doctrine you front but doesn't have foundation in the scriptures.

BassReeves:






Matthew 4:19
'“Come, follow Me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers of men.”
Jesus called out to them, “Come, follow me, and I will show you how to fish for people!”'

John 6:2
'A large crowd was following Him because they had seen the signs (attesting miracles) which He continually performed on those who were sick.'

John 6:26
'Jesus answered, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, you have been searching for Me, (i.e. follow Me)
not because you saw the signs (attesting miracles), but because you ate the loaves and were filled.'

Not all who follow or followed Jesus are disciples. People, multitude, persons etc followed Jesus for respective and different reasons

Can I know the implication of this Sir on my quote?

HedwigesMaduro:


From the book of Acts of the Apostles:
2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

You were saying...?

Is this a teaching or an event?
Events aren't teaching, we can learn from it but lessons from events must be guided by what was taught and explained. So when disputing doctrine (teaching), teachings must explain teachings.

Acts 2 events won't mean a different thing from other teachings to establish a doctrine. So explain a teaching in the Bible in that light that taught tongues as human language.

So, I asked you to point to a teaching in the scriptures on tongues as human language.
Tongues were taught in the Bible, examine all the teaching and point to one that taught it as human language.

Kobojunkie:
Again God's word decrees that no man add or remove from His Law. So where God has give no command, no man has authority from God to go around telling anyone to do that which God has not commanded.

The very contract we have in Jesus Christ is between individual man and God Himself. The only people in that agreement is God and the signee..no third parties involved. Jesus Christ by not commanding gatherings in to the Terms and conditions of the Contract He represents further made it clear to all concerned that truly this relationship is between God and individual man.

Let that sink into your head for next time you come about hawking the lies that you carry around which are based on doctrines and traditions of men you have yourself been fed by other men.

Bro, you are in disobedience, remember Adam, Cain. Nah so e dey start small small. Leave argument, you are walking in disobedience. Even Satan can quote scriptures to defend his act. Disobedience is disobedience. It's cure is obedience. Repent from your ways. Remember Lots wife, don't wait till you turn to salt Bro

Kobojunkie:
To the first issue... Jesus Christ gave no commands against my asking you whether you are blind nor my calling you a "son of a biatch" either. Now, following his example, I choose to do so.

Where there are no commands given, you are not to add one- it is a sin to do so. So when you find that Jesus Christ never provides a command for anything, it means He leaves it up to individuals to choose.

For example, Jesus Christ didn't have a problem with the drinking of Alcohol, but I don't currently drink it, even though from His example there is nothing wrong with it, and my reason is simple- I have no taste for it yet. Does that help you?

Again, I am not an idiot that you would attempt to con me with the so called scriptures you claim mandate gatherings. The fact is Jesus Christ never mandated such and again, even thought he was found gathered with people and understandably so in His case, does not then mean that I should go ahead and do that which He never commanded me to begin with. Like everything else, it is a choice each person has to make on their own.

Those who have taken it on themselves to create a law mandating gatherings in the name of God, where God Himself has declared no such law, do so against God.

And by so doing heap curses on themselves, curses which follow those who also bow to their commands, as Jesus Christ declared of every person who yields to the doctrines and commandments of men.

You chose a liberty to do what Christ didn't command you to do because there was no commandment, yet those who chose to gather are heaping curse in themselves. Are you listening to yourself?

You don't have a defence Bro, you only doing what pleases you not what Jesus came for nor what God's desire for his church is. You only want to do what pleases you and that is disobedience.

But the church will keep going stronger and stronger in gathering and coming together, in different places, in small groups, larger groups, in tens, hundreds, thousands, millions, his spirit at work in our midst as we get better and better for it. The church in gathering will continue to receive edification and built up to a spiritual house unto God with our gathering reflecting his glory and character.


False teaching as such that you presented has always failed and will always fail. It's the church of God, the gathering of saints that will continue to stand the test of times till eternity.

Repent Bro, and do it now.

HedwigesMaduro:


If tongues were not human languages how come many non-Jewish visitors to Jerusalem heard the disciples speaking in their own dialects after being baptised by the Holy Spirit? Except if you're telling us those visitors were spirits.

Show me a teaching in the scriptures that taught tongues as human language. Or was tongue not taught in the Bible. Show me a teaching that affirmed tongues as human language.
That is where to start from.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ never commanded His apostles to gather in any way or form leaving that decision up to individuals to decide on their own.

Where God has given NO COMMAND, no man has a right to add one on His behalf.

If you have a problem with me exercising my freedom in Christ and my telling others the Truth as Christ Himself declared it, I suggest you take it up with Jesus Christ, the one who maybe forgot to add a command mandating a gathering in each of our contracts with Him.

I am bored with this back and forth, and moving on now.

Are you reading what you write at all.
The Apostles gathered at their own discretion and decision? You are coming home gradually.

The apostles are doing what their master and savior did. That is what is called a follower. Not someone who pick only part that he wants and still hide behind God's name.

Secondly, you dont have any freedom in Christ to act outside Christ. That is not freedom, it is disobedience. And you can't be walking in disobedience and act as obedient child. The only truth here now is that you keep away that your freedom which is not in Christ and embrace Christ way of living and practices. That is the way out for you on this unchristian doctrine you fashioned for yourself.

Kobojunkie:

What has your rambling here to do with the speaking of tongues mentioned by Jesus Christ, the one who declared He and He alone is Teacher to all those who belong to Him?

What is wrong with asking if you are blind? And what part of Jesus Christ's teachings leads you to assume you cannot do that? Recall that the same Jesus Christ called the Pharisees White-painted-Sepulchres".
John, the Baptist, even called them "brood of Vipers " which in our today's speak translates to something like "Sons of Bi-tches"..
The same Jesus Christ commanded that all of His followers become Perfect just as the Father in Heaven is perfect, and He even explained how exactly all can become so.
As for gatherings, I never suggested I was looking anywhere for a gathering, let alone a perfect one. So, again, stop with the ramblings and learn instead to focus on the issue/topic.
Look, If you have nothing meaningful, it is ok to just move on.

Your insincerity already coming in the open.

You asked "are you blind".
I asked
"did Jesus command you to act like this or say such words"

Your response
"Jesus called pharisees...."

But I am sure he didn't command you of such but you do it because you saw him do.


Now below.

I asked
"why do you argue against gathering of believers"

You responded
"Jesus didn't command such"

I showed you from the scriptures, that Jesus practiced this severally.

Your responses,
"it wasn't commanded"


Do you see your insincerity. You only pick things as suited to you. You can practice one because you saw it in him but can't practice other e en though it's more emphatic in Jesus practices.

You aren't following Jesus o in this action. You only picking and feeding on selfishness and insincerity. I hope you change and change fast.

Kobojunkie:
How can I deny discipleship when I myself am a disciple of Jesus Christ? And I have made it severally clear to you that we are called to go preach the very Gospel of the Kingdom of God to the world, just as Jesus taught us to do, baptizing those who believe ? You really aren't making any sense to me in this tirade of yours.

The practices of the early churches, my personal distrust of gatherings, resentment to believers? What am I supposed to do with these ramblings of yours?

What you are supposed to do with the above is to allow God's word to rule you. If you do you will know that the kingdom of God is not in isolation but edification. And edification of others, hence the coming together of people of same mind.

Holding unto a practice of yours that has no basis in the writings of Moses, prophets, psalms, four gospels and epistles is not just a man's doctrine but a devil's trap against the work of the holy ghost in man.

Kobojunkie:
A disciple, like me, is a follower of Jesus Christ. Those who follow Jesus Christ submit to His teachings, accepting and obeying every commandment that He has laid down.
A disciple is one who loves His Teacher and Master, Jesus Christ, the Truth of God, and in whom the Spirit of Truth lives.


Sure, a disciple seats at His teacher's feet, and in this case, Jesus Christ is the one and only Teacher as far as His disciples are concerned. All of His followers are merely servants expected to teach that which the Teacher has taught them and nothing else.


I am not against Jesus Christ(His teachings and examples to us); Instead, I am against that which men do which is in direct disobedience to the teachings of Jesus Christ and His actions. I have said this several times to you.
A follower of Jesus Christ who lives by the examples and rules set by Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ, did not mandate a gathering since even on occasion, Jesus Christ taught some without the presence of a gathering... e.g. the woman by the well.
Jesus Christ instructed His followers to go preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God to the world.
I get the sense that you are looking for specific answers which you are likely not going to obtain from me. So why not move on at this point knowing that I will never see this the way you do.

You aren't coherent in your explanation.
You sighted Jesus teaching a woman as evidence but neglected many examples of him teaching a gathering. Arent you cherry picking.

You can't deny the fact that you are neglecting a practice you saw in your lord, a practice so loud in the scriptures and seen in your savior is what you are neglecting. Do you know more than your savior.


Secondly, your definition of disciple is still incoherent. I affirm it to you again that you can't practice discipleship as commanded by Jesus in Matthew 28 and yet reject gathering. It's obvious you either denying a fact or you dont know what discipleship mean.

Jesus words were written in Greek, go and Che k it as I have once told you a Greek man will mess up your explanation of discipleship as you truly don't understand it in all your explanation.


Lastly,
a practice you saw in your lord (gathering and discipling)
A commandment given by your savior (discipling nations)
A practice you saw in early church who received direct instructions from Jesus

Is what you now see as doctrine of men.

See, a smart follower or disciple will look intently not just at his leaders words but characters, practices, actions and reactions and use them to build his own practices and lifestyle.
When a follower start seeing things differently from his Master, it's either he was never a follower as claimed or he is not just as smart as he should or he thinks.

Kobojunkie:
Are you blind or something?

So much from a man following Jesus commandment.

I hope your "are you blind" is drawn from your 48 commandment of Jesus.

You are only walking in your own desire and using scriptures to twist and pursue a selfish purpose or undo a wrong experience you selfishly acquired.

No one is responsible for that, you are. So, if you haven't seen a true gathering of believers than your self entered experience that troubles you, no one will heal you of that until you take the healing available to you. Sadly God's healing for that is what you are rejecting which is Christian gathering.


Christ didn't die for a perfect people, he died to perfect people his church. Hence, looking around for a perfect gathering is deception in itself.

Bro, it's obvious in your utterance, you aren't following any Jesus commandment but yours mixed with some scriptures to support your purpose.

Kobojunkie:
Again, Jesus Christ, as part of His New Covenant which includes about 46 commandments NEVER included in there a commandment stipulating that His followers gather among themselves in the way that you do in your churches in this world -Not a single commandments suggests or even mandates such a gathering. So, I am not sure what you keep harping at when it is made clear in the teachings of Jesus Christ that no such mandate was given His followers.

Only God knows those who belong to Him and only He can and will make them gather onto Him. In Matthew w5 vs 31 -46, Jesus Christ tells of such a gathering to take place when He returns to us.

The very foundations of your world churches were laid on the doctrines and traditions of men, lies that Jesus Christ declared were against Him and the very power of God. So why you proclaim they are of God when they are built on that which is against God is beyond me.

So, again, I don't understand why you think you can force your ideas in this when God Himself never commanded any of it.

Your statement aren't sincere.
You are only trying to wrestle with the scriptures, and hide behind uncertainties.

You denied discipleship, is it not Jesus commandment? You denied gathering, a practice you see the one you called your lord engaged in.

A man who deny such is almost denying his faith. Such doctrine is worst than man's doctrine, it's working towards the desires of God's enemy.

If you can't see that the practices of the early church written in Acts were drawn from all Jesus commandment to the Apostles, then you aren't sincere.

Your personal distrust for a set of gathering will not undo the work of God in the gathering of his people.

Simply put, the root of your resentment to believers gathering is not driven by the scriptures but self distrust drawn from wrong experience. Yet a man experience cannot negate God's plan and purpose.

The action of a believer neglecting his gathering is rooted in either selfishness and ignorance, I am still trying to know your category in this.

Kobojunkie:
You asked how I teach, and I told you that I teach the same way I am doing it right now.
Actually, I do know what Jesus Christ meant when He said to go "make disciples" of the world. Jesus Christ meant we go teach to the world the very same undiluted Gospel of the Kingdom of God that He taught to us. I am not sure what meaning you are looking to add to what Jesus Christ said but be warned that you curse yourself by adding your ideas to His teaching by that.
And the same English should let you know what I have been saying all this while.

You are still yet to address the key facts.

"Make disciples" means what.

Who is a disciple

I have seen you referenced the original words of text of scriptures in some of your arguments. Why don't you do that here.

A disciples, SITS, at his teachers feet, that is a continuous learning mode that can even take years. A teacher will have many disciples sitting under him all through the scriptures. Why are you avoiding that.

So, Jesus said MAKE DISCIPLES, we saw the practice and the teaching in him. In this we saw him gathered and te ah his disciples, why are you against this? Do you truly trust Jesus words as you claim or you have a different doctrine.

So please who is a disciple
How did Jesus taught his disciples without gathering?
What was Jesus instruction towards disciplining?

Except you don't want to be sincere, you already have your answers.

Kobojunkie:
Next time don't post these unvalidated claims in a forum where people can evaluate them for the validity of the claims contained.

You are the one Bro that is posting unvalidated claim about the church of God and Christ instructions. I have challenged you on this before and you have no clear cut explanation to your rejection of the gathering of believers. If you can't understand the importance and instructions in believers gathering, how do you understand what it means to edify one another as explained in the OP.


I repeat to you again, the scriptures has over 1000 verses that portrayed God's heart and desire for his people to gather. I have been asking you to give me ONE Single scripture that support your claim of not gathering. Till date non is seen.

The truth is, a fundamental element of God's worship is absolutely missing in all your claims, and that's what the OP is addressing: Edification of the body.

Though I want to believe you are part of the body but rejecting it's practices it's a fundamental gap in your theology.

Kobojunkie:
What teachings of Tongues?

Jesus Christ, the one whom you claim to serve said those who believe in Him will speak new tongues. That was the extent of His teachings on tongues but when you read what has been written of tongues, you realize that He was addressing men, He was in fact speaking of tongues of men as in languages and not gibberish!

We read in Genesis 11, that God set confusion on the tongue of men, an act which resulted in the creation of other tongues/languages of men.

In acts of the Apostles, we told of the Apostles speaking in different tongues/languages, languages which when spoken were understood by visitors, gathered in Jerusalem ar the time from different corners of the world.

You have a way of not answering question when you were asked. If you raise a point and you are questioned, it's on you to put up a defence of that.

The Mark 16 you quoted as Christ teaching, can you explain how this is referring to tongues of men. What I need is explanation of any teaching in the scriptures that point to tongues as human language. Kindly explain how Jesus statement means tongues of men with scripture and verse.

Kobojunkie:
Why didn't you attempt the points he posed. He told you, and I believe rightly that your praying in tongues is no different from praying in another human language, only in the case of tongues, it is an unlearned language, but all the same human.

Was tongues ever taught as human language from the scriptures. In all teachings of tongues in the Bible, was it ever taught as human language.

KingEbukasBlog:
All tongues are known natural languages . If you are speaking in unknown unnatural language , you are just blabbing : glossolalia - this isn't from the Holy Spirit . The primary reason for speaking in these known natural language unknown to the speaker was to help spread the gospel to people who would understand the language.

Praying in tongues is no different from praying in a natural language you are familiar with : you are still communicating the same issues to God but in a different known natural language .

Focus on possessing the other gifts of the spirit like love , joy , peace and stop this unhealthy obsession with speaking in tongues .

You mean he should neglect what the Bible teaches severally to covet and earnestly desire to have?

RichMediaSpace:




Stop deceiving yourself saying anyone is twisting the scriptures. It's you who should read the scripture with understanding. Prior to the revelation of Jesus, did you see him with anyone asides the issue of the temple at his young age?


Abeg e

You are dancing around pockets of scriptures.
You provided a list, and I corrected you that it's not true. You danced away from that to mention Jesus.

Was Jesus in isolation before, during and after his revelation. Hope you have your Bible to read.

A man frequent in temple, you still can't see reasons and importance in that.

Eka Bible yín nah.

RichMediaSpace:



Deceive yourself. My life took 1000% rise since I worshipped The Almighty without the problems human beings carry with their presence.

Mr rise,
Good for your life. I rejoice with you but don't twist the scriptures to support your unscriptural attitude or rise.

By the way, even an atheist can have more than 1000% rise in life without knowing God.

Hence, when such rise is your motive or determinant of judging your walk with God, then you are yet, not ready to know God.

RichMediaSpace:






Lies. Who says a person can serve God without..


Check Your scriptures check the lives of many many throughout scriptures


1. Job


2. Joseph ( Egypt )


3. Moses ( Egypt )


4. Samson ( Before Commissioning )


5. Jacob


6. Abraham ( Before Lot )


7. David ( Training a d Transitioning )


8. Elijah


9. Esther


10. Nehemiah

There is no one you mentioned here that is a lone ranger. Infact majority were used among "God's people". Notice that word. God's people, which each of those you listed are part.

No one is used or called of God to work in isolation. No one. It's devils imprint.

Vulcanheph:
I totally agree with everything the op has said and before you quote me just know that I was a Strong RCCG member for 7 years before my eyes were opened and I saw that the church is nothing to write home about and that they are only concern is to grow their numbers and make more money..... Infact I have given up on Christianity as a whole, I still believe in God but I've left religion behind.

So Sir, how do you fellowship now or practice your believe in God.

FreshGreen:
A proverb in Nigeria says, "When a plantain is spoiling, we say no, it is only ripping well" An unripe plantain is rich and contains several nutrients, and when it begins to ripe, it looses its nutrients but then it becomes finer, and sweeter; it becomes more presentable and attractive. The same thing is applicable with RCCG and many churches today. But the focus is on RCCG here. The founder of this church, Rev. Akindayomin, a man of holiness and righteousness, God called him and gave him a covenant church, that is Redeemed Christian Church of God - RCCG.

Then the church was unpopular because of its strict stand on holiness and righteousness. They were called "Gospel church" those who preached holiness and stood for it. They were not after materials stuffs, their sisters dressed godly, not flamboyantly, all of them were content with little and sharing with all. When their choir ministered, people bowed their heads in sober mood by the heavenly touch of the singing ministration, not like the jumping, shouting and crazy yelling with entertainment choir of today. Then companies were writing the church for employment because of the faithfulness and diligence of their members. I would not have joined them because of their standard of holiness since I was not saved then. That was the RCCG I knew when I was in Ilesha, Osun state in 1989 to early 90s.

But today, RCCG is more popular, richer and everywhere, in fact, they are proud of their parishes in every corner of Nigeria and many other countries, they are the fastest and still growing church, beautiful auditoriums everywhere. In Abuja here where I live, RCCG is like the richest church. But where are their godly virtues of old? They have exchanged their spiritual riches for materials and financial riches, they boast of financial riches while they are spiritually miserable. I lived in Redemption camp for full 6 months in 2010, and with what I saw in the dept of RCCG - the corruption, sexual immorality, unfaithfulness, etc. among the core leaders to the least members, I can categorically say this church is spiritually poor. A church where a music director wanted to sleep with a sister choir before permitting her to sing praise and worship at the Holy Ghost night? And God cannot open the eyes of the G.O to discern or detect sins among people close to him and rebuke it openly as Apostle Peter did in Acts chapter 5, the G.O can only discern blessings and upcoming prosperity?

Why has RCCG changed to opposite of where they stood before? Or why did Pastor Adeboye changed the landmark God gave to Rev. Akindayomin, which he upheld till he died? And you, you who were saved and brought up in the old faith when you were young, in secondary school and university fellowships, now you have joined the modern church system and worldly dress and have abandoned your beginning, seeing it as old school?

The Bible standard has gone elsewhere because of crave for population. If you are a member, worker or leader in RCCG, how many messages or books of Rev. Akindayomin do you have or have you read or listen to? Maybe none! RCCG is the only church where materials and works of the immediate past G.O is evacuated almost completely. As if the books and messages of their founder who also was the immediate past leader were totally removed. None of his books or messages are promoted or reprinted, at least for every member to have access to the teachings and messages of the founder of their church. This present G.O and admins will never do that, you know why? Their lifestyles, prayers and preachings are opposite the messages and standard of Rev. Akindayomin, so they CAN NEVER PROMOTE THE MESSAGES OR BOOKS of Pa Akindayomin in their present spiritual condition. Do you know any church on earth where the messages and books of the church founder and immediate past General Overseer is completely eradicated from the same church with no trace? Only in RCCG.

If God should open the eyes of Pa Akindayomin in heaven to see the church he left on earth, he will be weeping now, so also heaven is weeping on RCCG. But you are celebrating RCCG as a successful church, popular and powerful even to Aso villa here in Abuja.

The case of Pa Akindayomin and Pastor Adeboye is like the case of David and Solomon in the Bible. David fought the good fight of Faith, so also did Pa Akindayomin - we know how Pa Akindayomin started and how he ended well. But Solomon did no fighting, rather he did many buildings, from building Temple of God, to his personal buildings, to several idols, even to Chemosh - incessant building project is one of the signs of backsliding in any church. Solomon had many things, many wives, many riches, etc. just as there are many buildings and many members today in RCCG.

You must be happy of being a member or pastor of RCCG, especially if you did not witness the RCCG of old; because there is freedom, prosperity and promises and better life. No stress of holiness, no discipline of indecent dress, no restitution, everything is bureaucracy, and as long you can comply with the rules and regulations, you have no limit. But that will lead to where?

This is not the covenant church God used His servant Rev. Akindayomin to found, this is not the same church I knew in 1990, this is not the church of the Bible. Today, I will find it hard to join RCCG, not because of their high standard of holiness again, but because of their low and poor standard of holiness.

You can be very zealous to condemn this article, to choose to defend your G.O rather than defending the truth. If you were not in RCCG about 20 years ago, then you may lack understanding of the beginning of RCCG, go and ask the elders who witnessed the beginning and strength of RCCG as a true covenant church of undiluted truth and holiness of heavenly minded church.

If you know where God began with you, where God was pleased with you that He made COVENANT with you, then that may help you to know where you have missed it along the way, and where you need to trace you way back. God is waiting for you at the point He made covenant with you, and same thing with Pastor Adeboye and RCCG as a whole. Go back to the old faith, the narrow old path of FEW serious minded, and stop defending this broad MULTITUDE, MANY faulty modern way before it is too late. The Rapture of the saints is imminent!

" Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’— and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and Unclad— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your unclothedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten.Therefore be zealous and repent." Revelation 3:17-19

Gideon Akande

So, @OP what is the motive of this post?

Myer:


By your explanation, there was no believer until the Holyspirit was given right? Not even the 12 disciples?

Well, thats another argument.

The issue im addressing here is your opinion that the gospel books are no different from the books of Genesis, Songs of Solomon, Chronicles, etc.
Even though Jesus himself came to correct the misconceptions if the Laws of Moses in the old testament.

Your claim consequently being that the words of Jesus Christ is outdated since they were spoken before the Holyspirit was given. Right?

Conclusively your claim accentuates that the Epistles of Paul, Peter, James, John and Jude are more important that the Gospels of Jesus in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John because they were being moved by the Holyspirit just as Jesus Chrisf was.

I will 8nly refer you to one verse;

No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.
John 1:18 (NLT)

What are you writing Sir?

Are you sure you are reading my post or "a look alike in your mind"?

You are driving in random direction and entering into domain you know little of and its making you to say what doesn't exist. What is "word of Jesus outdated?", "Christians before Christ death?".

Ègbón, Shey ę ńka Bible sha?

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Jesus didn't teach by himself, he taught using the authority of the scriptures. All his teachings were from the scriptures of old. The challenge with you is that you can't sit down to read and examine where he could be teaching from each time and then you assume he's teaching something different or new.

Jesus textbook as a teacher of the word is the scriptures, no one will even listen to him anyway in their days without the scriptures read. Unlike our days when you can type and argue about scriptures without having a Bible sef.

God's wisdom on him is to explain the scriptures beyond what the pharisee could see. He wasn't forming words of his own. He wasn't teaching the way you do now (not opening Bible, but just say anything you feel). His arguments were taken from the scriptures, his opponents also spoke from scriptures perspective.

He didn't come with a new law (I have explained this to you before). He only explained and make known well the law of God which has been from Genesis but unclear to them. Nothing is new. The same spirit that inspired the God's activities from Genesis was in him, the spirit didn't speak to contradict what was said from old.

John 1:45
1 Peter 1: 10-11
2 Peter 1: 20-21
Revelation 19:10
John 5:39
Romans 3:21
Hebrews 1:1-2
Luke 24:26-27, 44-46

Luke 24
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

He wasn't writing or teaching a different plan. He was teaching and fulfilling the same plan.

Same God, same spirit, same prophecies, same plan, same Christ, same life and light, same teaching. If you can't see it when you are reading Genesis, exodus.... Malachi, you aren't reading at all.

It is when you are reading like pharisee that you will see Jesus words different from God's word from the writings of the prophets or the scripture. All prophets wrote by the same spirit of Christ to testify him. Same word, same spirit, same teaching.

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Bro, your Bible study starts when you can see God's plan never changed from Genesis and all the faithfuls from the old spoke the same word of God as you see in what is called the new Testament writings. No one was communicating differently. That is the unity of the scripture, the unity of God's purpose.

A man like Kobojunkie, that even said there shouldn't be gathering or worship of God in unity of spirit together in a place cannot appreciate the unity of the scriptures or God's plan.

He must be understudying some books written from a desire born out of rebellion to God's word. We surely know how it always ends.