Myer:


The charade is ridiculous.

Honestly I'm ashamed I was once a victim of the deception.

See, this statement summarises your state of mind.

Most times when we discovered our mistakes we tend to think we have moved better or forward in knowledge. But the truth is in Christianity, when you discover your error or deception it's a revelation of your level of maturity, it doesn't imply you have grown, It simply means you just start growing as related to that. Hence, you should be patient more to grow and start afresh to understand how thing are done properly. Your position or years of experience is inconsequential. Whether you are a pastor or leader, it doesn't matter. You can be preaching and teaching millions of people for 10 years and yet you are a babe and knew nothing. Maturity is not in activities, activities are only product of maturity.

Sadly, we carry the knowledge of such past deception to judge all things and claim we are now mature.

See, you must first relearn and unlearn all you got from such deception, all the knowledge. And then open to the right teaching of God's word. It is clear you haven't unlearn many things and it's affecting your judgement. You will need to.

GRIMMJOE:
That thick àss and firm breast is what's making you fly, in 5 - 10 years you'll be out of the market, an old midnight paper, if you like get your priority in life straight, chase your illusion or regret wasting you youth.

Why been personal on issues? You got angry being opposed? I know you have more tolerant than this, make use of it.

Maximus69:


Don't doubt whatever anybody say when it comes to deception, Satan can fabricate anything and called it Church. 2Corinthians 11:14-15
Certainly you'll find people who loves such lifestyles going there for worship all in the name of Jesus as they just want to be associated with that name! Matthew 7:21-23
That's why it's compulsory to ascertain which of the groups claiming Christians are truly practicing Christianity in the right sense?

Myer kept portraying Islam as if there is anything worthwhile to write home about that Religion, whereas 99% of Terrorist acts on this planet today are carried out by persons claiming Muslims!

His statement refers to a Christian. And he is definite in his word.

So, going by his exact description of such believer. I will say it again. That it is absolutely false. His statement in itself is hyper active. Those are statement you found with people who think when hyper grace is mentioned then it means go and commit sins. He isn't truthful with that.

Myer:
The bible like other religious sacred books is considered God's word and infallible.
It has become needful to address the inconsistencies and contraditions in the bible.

Share a verse from the bible and I will show you another verse that contradicts it.

Cc Hoopernikao
DappaD
GRIMMJOE
Muttleylaff

Chairman again?

Myer:


But you will be surprised to know that Christian's, especially hyper-Grace Christian's believe nothing is wrong except you're convicted by the spirit. Meaning a christian lady can continue bleeping another woman's husband as long as she doesn't see anything wrong in it.

She is no longer bound by laws but by the leading of the spirit.

That's why most business owners trust muslims more than Christian's.

There is no Christian who believes this bro. There is none.

GRIMMJOE:
@ hoopernikao I haven't replayed based on the evil

Believe me every body know what's right and what's wrong, otherwise Nigerian would have all killed each other before civilization, lions eat lions, and a rat will hide after stealing.

You are just arguing, not really discussing because I have already explained this, it's the same reason you haven't climbed a tall build and jump, even an animal won't do that.

Thieves run after stealing, they don't sit and wait for police to give them a ride home.

You aren't answering any thing.

You are only avoiding questions.

If you say everybody knows what is right, the question I have been asking you since is that HOW DOES A MAN KNOW WITH INFLUENCE. How do you know evil if nothing influenced that decision. How do you know love? Aren't they from what you have received as influence?

You have accepted this fact earlier that we are all product of influence, now tell me what influences your decision. This is all I need to know.

GRIMMJOE:
I explained this, your decision based on a honest thought is what makes you free thinker.

Cloths: protects us from the weather, covers our unclothedness, cloths are good.

Stealing: getting caught means jail, jungle justices, taking someone else saving (empathy) stealing is bad

Do same for smoking, drinking, womanizing

Your decision is what makes you a free thinker not the influence, threat, or peer pressure.

So why clothes, why not leaf. They can do the same. Why did you chose cloth. Why trousers, why not wrapper alone. The fact that you covered your unclothedness itself is influence. Children don't and they feel Okay. Your environment influenced that.

Are your decision not based on influenced thoughts. That is the question. When you are influenced to make decisions do you call that free thinking?

You are told to choose between A and B and then given explanation on how good is A and how bad is B, whatever you chose afterwards no matter how critical you think it through is influenced by that explanation. Choosing good is influence, choosing bad is product of influence too, same as not choosing at all.

Nothing is presented to you in life without associated influence.

The foundation of what you called free think is hidden in influences. No human is free from such.

The earlier you see and accept that.

Your definition of love today is influenced, infact to shock you, your definition of EVIL today is influenced. What comes out from that thinking you called free, are perfectly benchmark on influences you have refused to check.

Like I said do a good stock of your decisions in life and ask yourself what influences this. That is the point you start finding out.

GRIMMJOE:
It all fall on the person making this decision, I believe we all know when we are lying to ourselves, even rats run and hide after stealing in the kitchen, hence we know right from wrong by default.

I'm I getting married because I love this man or family pressure of disowning me if I don't.

If she loves the man she'll still marry him, if she doesn't and is telling her self the truth, then the parents can disown her, but she'll keep her integrity and pride.

In all of the marrying. How did she know love if not from influence. How did she know family pressure if not from influence. Your knowledge of love today did you manufacture it or was based on influence. All you feel today that you are freethinking. Sit down well and real think on them you will know exactly what inform those decisions, those thinking. You must do a sincere deliberate questioning of your mind to know exactly what influences any of your decisions.

Sit and think through. None of any of your decisions in life is from free thinking. It's actually from influenced thinking. So what influences you. The greatest of all illusion is to claim free thinking. No such thing exist sir.

GRIMMJOE:
Influenced? it quite the opposite, it you doing the thinking, say a Buddhist walk up to you about his religion you're not just going to believe, you'll ask questions and reflect on the answers he gave you, base on free thinking and not base on another religious book.

Example, he might say cow meat is wrong, free thinkers will analyse this thoroughly and come to a conclusion, instead of but we are given dominion over all animals, that's not free thinking, that's influenced thinking.

Its like saying "what will my friends think of me if I start wearing medicated glass" knowing him/her have poor sight.

When you are told something and you free think to judge to. That thinking in itself is benchmark against some influences, thought, past experiences, exposure. The thought does not stand alone.

You don't just say you think about something. Your decision are always influenced. You agreed to this earlier.

Is there any thought or decision that is ever not based on influence.

Why do you wear cloth? Can I see your freethinking decision on that?

Like I told you. The worst point of knowledge is when a man feel he is not influenced but just think by himself. It is the greatest point of self deception.

So, I asked again. How free is the thinking when such is also influenced by its surroundings.

GRIMMJOE:
It's free thinking, I'm sure that's self explanatory.

Okay. No issue. So how free is the thinking since it is influenced.

Can you call an influenced opinion absolutely free?

GRIMMJOE:
I forgot to ask you something, is straight forward.

What is the intent of Atheism.

Is like asking me what is the intent of physiology. It isn't my field or my concern. Those who find peace in Atheism should tell me the intent.

I hope there is one.

GRIMMJOE:
Hoopernikao you're not being honest, you see what I say about going all out to protect your illusion.

Do you also know the intent of Muslims?

Why not end the conversation, the hunger to win is clouding your cognitive.

You already ended it on a good note.

GRIMMJOE:
@ hoopernikao I believe our discussion is concluded

The intent knowing God though Christ, is an incredible failure and a God can't fail in his purpose.

Not every Christian will agree with the intent you gave, everyone with the illusion the want to see.

You don't know the intent of other religion yet you consider them false.

Just think all this through.

If you conclude now, it is surely good.

But I trust that your yearning heart have received a part of the truth. And your steps will be ordered more to places you will receive more.

I trust same God you despise, to work through circumstances, those things that seems real and perfect to you and use them to direct your path aright.

I have no doubt that all your burdens, hatred and vile will fade away in the light of the gospel of Christ in due time. Amen.

GRIMMJOE:
It's quite simple, the intent

Christianity = Intent is Love
Islam = Intent is Peace

Your are a Christian and you don't know the intent of Christianity is love.

No love no peace, which means God failed, and God can not fail because he is God, then this can only be God doesn't exist and all religion are man made illusion.

I asked you A, you are answering B.

Firstly remember I told you, you have been decieved and lied to for long. Yiu have no single knowledge of what Christianity is. You have been sold a lie, bro. Love is not an intent, it is a product. Intent is knowing God sir. Don't let anyone deceive you again.

This is the reason you have a false reasoning about God. You were told Christianity intent is love, now no love no peace then it is false. And then start blaming God.

You better start listening to the truth. Love will wax cold, peace will cease. God intent to man will remain, to know him through Christ Jesus. Every other thing is a product of this.

Either in peace or war, in love or hatred, in many or little, in having or starving, in persecution or embrace, Christ to humanity remain the intent in the scriptures.

Until you start knowing this, you will continue your search without end.

GRIMMJOE:
That's how I asked him for intent and got the long speech.

Eyaaa.

The long epistles is to help you understand properly and so that nothing is left out leaving you doubting and confused. Thoughts are to be presented properly to avoid assumptions. It is because you have been exposed to so much assumptions and lack of detailed and true explanations that is why you are now questioning things, how beit the wrong way.

If you have been taught rightly, no matter how long or hard, you would have been grounded in knowledge to know exactly what you stand for. Even as it is now, you still hang on so many assumptions and surely evident in your knowledge and words here.

DappaD:

See as how you are exposing you and your trinity cohorts
Matthew 12:25
A house divided against itself will not stand

Exposing? You must be funny. Bible interpretation have no friends or partner. The only thing that matters is proper interpretation.

JW is not the only one who takes Jesus as not God yet the explanation in most varies. So leave this out. My loyalty is to God's word sir.

GRIMMJOE:
It's OK Hoopernikao, I believe you see it now but isn't ready to accept it, it will feel like you lost, just try and think about it.

OK ask me your question, I'll answer.

You must be in between the red sea.

Which of the questions, I have asked you over a score.

So influences you, the intent that inform what you hold as true.

DappaD:

You typing too long doesn't really interest me. Try to get the message across without too much words.

So how can you believe in something and can't be able to defend it?

N/B: I'm not inciting another argument oo abeg I just find it funny how you view God and Jesus as distinct beings and still view them as the same person.

You still didn't read my text well. You will have to always read my text carefully. They have things hidden in the details.

I never said in that text that I can't defend what I believe or Trinity. Defending is not an issue. It is clear as the day dawn. It is you or others understanding it that I am taking progressively.

But if people (as you also shown in your question here) still struggle to understand the fundamental things about biblical words or narrative, it will be dangerous to just and start discussing what will confused them totally.

For example, you still find it hard to see that when you say Jesus or Christ, that isn't refering to divinity but humanity of Christ and using this as basis of of Trinity judgement is ignorance.

You cannot anoint God, "Christ mean the anointed one" pointing you directly to his humanity. When you still muddle this up, further explanation will be a waste of time. Until you first of all can differentiate when bible points to Jesus divinity and when it points to his humanity, you will always have issues with the words such as father, son, son of man, son of God, Jesus, Christ etc.

Knowledge is progressive, hence I am not in a rush to fully explain it in due time.

GRIMMJOE:
But you haven't answered what is the intent of religion, what is the intent to reveal God through Christ. is that the intent of Jehovah witness? you can just say yes or no.

Since you don't know the intent of Muslims, what makes you think your religion intent is the right one, when you haven't even explored the intent of Muslim religion.

And if you don't need to know the intent of Muslim to conclude the religion is inexistent, then why do any one need to know the intent of your religion to know it's inexistent.

We haven't even talked about the intent of Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, and even Atheism.

I have answered you, maybe there is an answer you want to hear. I am a Christian, it is right for me to speak about me not anyone.

Have I heard some other spoke about what they believed in? YES. doesn't that lead to or satisfied my longing? NO.

So, what is your intent to what you hold tight. I have asked this 4 times now. You asked yours I answered you.

Don't you think the intent of the scriptures is pure and worth knowing? Isn't the same your heart yearns for? Why not look over the lies you have been told by those who twisted the scriptures for you and now be open to see for yourself if they are true.

DappaD:

Sorry oo I'm writing this in no attempt to derail from the topic on hand
But now you see God and Jesus as distinct beings?
Weren't you defending the trinity doctrine in the other pages?

Should we discussed this further and you won't start calling me names again and avoid discussion afterwards. If you do, I still have outstanding questions you haven't answered.

Secondly, I have seen great assumptions among you and your colleagues claiming I defend Trinity. for your record, check through all my post not just here but on Nairaland generally, and point to where I had a discussion Trinity. I have constantly mentioned to you all that my argument with you is not about Trinity for now but cases that can lead to it.

The fact that you wanted to proved a point isnt allowing you to read between the lines. Exposing your mistakes is not the same as supporting your enemies stand. You must always read details and carefully.

Do I believe in Trinity, YES. Have I ever defend or discuss it on Nairaland? You may have to check to prove me wrong. The closest thing I have ever said on trinity is that it is a concept of salvation rather than creation. That is the closest said about my stand on Trinity. This was made over 6-7 months on one Reno said..... Thread. I am definite in all I do and it can be traceable. In due time that will be discussed.

So, I may not support some opinions or have the same stand view of Trinity with those who believe in it, but I definitely believe in it both scripturally, historically and personally.

GRIMMJOE:
I get your point on influence, I will address this but were still on the intent of religion, so what is the intent to reveal God through Christ.

And what is the intent of Muslims, or it's the same.

I have answered you this question nah.
No need for repetition.

Back to influence, so answer me. What is your own influence or is it a secret? State what inform your intent, your stand.

GRIMMJOE:
Hope you don't mind you'll still answer some other question honestly.

What's the intent to "reveal God through Christ"

Can you also tell me the intent of Muslims

are you seeing where this is going?

You haven't answered any of my questions. I deliberately ask you questions in almost all my responses. You haven't answered anyone till date. Honesty can't be one sided. Hope you know.

Man had a beginning, man has a source, the day you know your source is the day you likely start living. Science is endeavoring today to reach and know the source of humanity, the end of same, why? If not important, why? That is the humanity in everyone yearning to know where you came from or where does things end.

So, God revealed through Christ via the teaching of the scriptures is also a revelation of man's beginning and it's ending.

For Muslims, I am not a mouth piece for them.

So how honest do you want me to be before you start answering me.

Looking for my word to hold against me before you are satisfied?

GRIMMJOE:
@ hoopernikao it's like I'm telling you about the truth, but in return you're like the truth must come from this book,

Why, because you've been indoctrinated, it's like telling you animals fly and you're like why isn't this horse flying, stop arguing and try to understand this illustration.

The Bible is not the source of reasoning its you, your the source of reasoning, turn to your self for answers, you're not shít, your human your the source of your intelligence not an illusion.

You must be very funny.
One of the greatest comedy I have ever heard before is those who said exactly what you wrote above. "Your reasoning is you, turn to yourself for answers.... " . Most times when you say this it's either you aren't truthful to yourself or shear ignorance or how things works.

Firstly note that the biggest lies sold to you is that you aren't influenced by anything but yourself. Very false.

See, from the cloth you wear around, to your hair cut, to your thinking, decisions, you saw it somewhere, read, or influenced. No man that is not influenced in this world.

The inside you want to look into is the seat of external influence itself. Dont be deceived.

Everything you have ever typed in this forum was informed by influence.

So, you need to examine yourself well and think firstly, ask yourself what or who is influencing me. Until you can answer this question, you will be in the illusion of looking inward. All that is inward of man are product of influence he receives.

If the scriptures influences me, what influences you. Can you take your time and ask yourself this most important question. Then answer.

GRIMMJOE:
What is the intent of religion, not just yours but religion, please be honest you end this conversation when ever you want, there's no win, only truth.

Christianity reveals God and the scriptures is to help do the same via its teachings. It's primary intent is to reveal God through Christ.

So, what is your own intent now. I want your present path.

GRIMMJOE:
If this is what you see, I can't help you but I'll try, Ill say it again the scriptures are what you want to see.

The intent if any religion are absent and no where to be found, this is not a I win, you lose, ask your self what's the intent of religion compare it with the world.

don't be scared of your Paradise tone taken away from you, it never existed, it never will, make use of you youth and take a bow when its time.

So tell me what you see in the scriptures. What do you see and where. How did you come to your opinion. You are moving in circles.

And it's obvious you are exposed to very very wrong doctrine likely when you were still attending Christian meetings. You have a very very wrong perception of the scriptures and that has really really affected you as you found out later that you have been lied to.

It's quite a sorry, many have to fall for such sleight of men and cunning craftiness, such manipulation of scripture to either personal gain or to do what God didn't send them to do. But you aren't alone and it not absolutely bad.

But you must first accept this, that all your knowledge about the scriptures are absolutely false. That you have been exposed to lies almost all your time around church or believers. You were never allow to see rightly. I bet with you, everything you have mentioned all through this thread about the scriptures shows this clearly.

You may need to restart, to read, to see, to confirm the falsehood you may once enjoy but don't make sense again. Because all falsehood have an expiring date. Yours got to it's date then you got freed ,but sadly, not freedom unto freedom but unto further lies. Hatred of being deceived and lied to.

You need to see things yourself now. GRIMMJOE I really mean it. It is not what you were exposed to. It is not at all.

GRIMMJOE:
I'm not avoiding anything, indoctrine is power, it takes away your empathy you think its normal for some not to care about starving children because their not his church member, you think its normal for someone to put on suicide vest, even animals won't do such.

You can't see what's wrong here, you can't see it until you let go of this illusion, it takes away your empathy, it takes away your purpose in life and gives you an illusion of a Paradise that never existed, and will never exist.

You are mixing things up GRIMMJOE.

You are judging the scriptures using people's conduct without even seeing for yourself what the scriptures says about such issue. You can't be pointing to people's experiences to just a documented fact. You should rather judge experiences with the exact thing written. Do you judge the constitution of a country by people's actions?

A man stole then you blame the constitution, the first question any sensible person will ask is if you have read the constitution and sure that it supports such actions... You are starting from point of finish running backward. You will miss the whole essence of the writings.

What does the scriptures teaches concerning an issue, is the first and the most intelligent questions any man can ask concerning a situation. But when you chose to go your way, you will be asking the wrong questions.

To me personally, you aren't different from anyone who misinterpret the scriptures to suit an action. It's just the same. Twist the scriptures to defend an action. But your case is, establish an action and turn back to blame the scriptures.

You will need to start seeing the other way now: from start to finish now.

GRIMMJOE:
I won't call you out just to accuse you, you did mention loosely quote "You have to look at the intent" I'm only using the word intent here

On the second point, I'm telling you in other to win the game you don't play it, scriptures are what you make of them, I've been telling you, your not listening, scriptures are whatever you make of them, it doesn't mater what scripture I bring you'll still see it the way you've been controlled to.

Do you think indoctrine is a joke, the moment your indoctrine is question you'll give it your everything to protect it, even unknowing lie to your self, literally your purpose in life is taken from you, but the truth is, its only your illusion.

Always keep evidence of accusations. If you wake me up from bed, I can still quote and rewrite verbatim all I have written on this thread from beginning. I don't write out of desire just to write, my writings and words are deliberate, well thought-out and well coordinated. So either by intent or writing, you can't point to any where I said what you accused me of. But like I said, I am used to that with you now.

Now, we are having an open discussion here. What you wrote in your second part is one of Mohammed Alli strategy to his opponent (let me use illustration that fits your normal grammar - fight ). Alli will want to warn his opponent to sway them away from their mind. That works for Alli, but in intellectual discussions it is a sign of fear and weakness from the speaker. So, don't use them. I know you have what to say and you can explain. So put them across as much as you can.

I have told you that the scriptures have a singular message, intent and thought. All explanation must align to this thought. That is how you know if an interpretation is correct. So, we aren't speaking about personal opinions here. But what is and how is written.

So state what you think, we may then align it with scriptures and know how true it is then accept your point. And if you see that it is not true, you truly don't have to accept my point but take the learning. It may help you in days ahead.

GRIMMJOE:
@ hoopernikao

I can't come here dragging scriptures with you the time for all that has pass and it will never come again, religion is what ever illusion you want to see, these illusions are generate by fear and indoctrine, and sometimes lies to oneself.

By the way, the way you mentioned scriptures above gave me hope. I hardly see either atheist or those who reject God use such word, what is common among them is to use "bible" at most. Which is actually the same. But using scriptures, hmmm. Well, you know yourself.

Main thing now, is that i am likewise not dragging scriptures with you. I only want you to be objective and explain your point, and how you come to such conclusions.

How does the scriptures generate lies, fear etc. How do you come to this. At least, you must have read and saw this in it for you to claim it's what you said.

Speak plainly, there is no need to avoid speaking.

GRIMMJOE:
The intent you your self said it, the intent of religion is love and for others religion is peace, look at the world it's nowhere to be found.

I'm not an Atheist, at this point my believe means nothing to you, but ask your self what do I want, what do I have to gain.

Am not asking you for anything than to see, that's all keep every aside and see, it's right there the truth.

Point to where I said the bold in this thread.
You must have accused me falsely and give false witness against me over 24 times on this thread.

Always point to things and don't assume.

Secondly, you havent still stated what I asked you. How did you come about your pr3sent start of the scriptures or God that I serve. There should be a stand point. What informed your decision.

GRIMMJOE:
I want to help, I will help, for I'm willing.

Go ahead, I have heard you over 20 times mentioned illusions, can you state clearly what you mean and where you got it from.

You know you have laid so many accusations on this forum, but I will let it pass. Let's start afresh now. I believe you know intelligent discussion needs explanation. So give your explanation here.

How do you come about the illusion as god.

GRIMMJOE:
This are the half Atheist, half Christians

Maximus69
DappaD
Hoopernikao
TATIME
and a wanna half Atheist, Rozz

Now that the battle field is set, begin.

GRIMMJOE

Lol @half atheist . The atheist has half? Where did the other half run to. .

Wanna half atheist .
Do you do comedy show? I will like to see one.

Now that you have turned me to "half atheist". Can we now talk?

So how and when did you come about your current view of the scriptures?

Finallydead:

Hi hooper. Eerrhn... you'll need to slow down hooper. If you don't take off your lens, you'll read some other meaning into my text as well as the scriptures. This is what I said, remember?

So the righteous will live from faith. But notice, in the gospel(as in NT), the righteousness of God will be revealed from faith to faith(Rom1:17). Meaning not all at once in the instant of initial faith.
Hence faith was only started at the receiving of the gospel but must still be finished to its consummation or final degree.(Heb12:2, 1Pet1:9)

Degrees of baptism, not kinds. Like Ezek47. Actually if you baptism always goes together with faith. Each degree of baptism translates us to another degree of faith.
Note that it is one baptism into oneness with Divinity, to become the body of one Lord through the agency of one Spirit. So at every degree, the one Spirit is the agent of the baptism but His composite nature is revealed one layer at a time.
I have already expounded on the second degree in my first post here- the baptism/infilling of the Holy Spirit and shown from scriptures, irrefutably, that they are the same thing.
I will go on to expound on the first degree using scriptures and then point you to the next degree after the infilling only touching lightly on it here because this is a public forum and it is even needless for this thread. There is in fact a final degree even after this preached throughout scripture but that will as well be unnecessary and unsuitable here. So I'll be on to just the first degree and a little into the third.

Yeah. But actually, what I mean is that He is not just our example as in to imitate or emulate but more than that. He is our syllabus and pattern for every believer, our very doctrine. Meaning we must go through every single step/phase of His life if we would complete our course on earth (1Pet2:21, Php2:5-12), yeah?

I still need you to acknowledge this because it will leave you with a need for an explanation of the pluralism in Heb6:4

You must know how to read Paul and understand his usage of words.

But my issue here is that you are mixing lots of issues together. You may need to seperate discussion by issues. And that is the one reason I said discussing the explanation of faith to faith here will derail the purpose of tread. I don't want to.

I know opportunity will arise again for this, pending that, study more on your position on this and also try to put side by side how Paul used such type of phrase in 2 Corinthians 2:16

16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

It is Paul's play of words so you will need to put that in view for full discussion when the time comes.

Now on baptism.

You aren't stating clearly what you implies. If there are several levels or degrees as you said of baptism, state them clearly to me here. Who taught it, how is it being taught, who practiced it bearing in my the exact meaning of the word BAPTISM. This is the first thing you need to defend. So kindly state clearly when you refer to baptism the type you are refering to. Is it baptism of the holyghost? Water or what? State them clearly.