₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
The Open-minded do not reject opinions... they respect them since it is clear in many cases that you cannot disprove all beliefs as far as the mind is concerned.
Not true! Open-mindedness does not attempt to destroy any such because the open-minded understands the need for some of these delusions, even in the face of reason.

Xavfra:
Okay......


See photo attached below......

I doubt it's possible to be the both at the same time .....

Daejoyoung:
I know that deists are not atheists, my point is that they don't believe in any religious god like you but that doesn't mean they should be called atheists just simply because they don't subscribe to any religious God ( like atheists). The reason deists are not atheists is that they answer YES to the concept of God ( not necessarily the religious idea of God) while atheists answer NO to both the religious idea and the philosophical concepts.

So I see no reason why you'll have to define Deism for me. My post didn't warrant that, this is why I said you are funny.

Daejoyoung:
Not believing in religious gods is not what makes atheists stand out, what makes them distinct is that they don't believe in the concept of God.

The concept of God, and religious god, are two separate issues that depend on one another, but are not necessarily thesame. You are conflating the two.

Vic2Ree:
Bro, I have to say, after properly assessing your OP, Kobojunkie has a point.

Atheism means the lack of belief in the existence of any deities. Basically, it is absurd to have belief in any deity at all, and still call yourself an atheist. The moment you believe in (even if it's one) god, you cannot be a-theos (without-god)

Edit: Just wanted to add, I think the misconception may arise from how you want to define god here. From an etymological viewpoint, you are wrong. But if you want to restrict the discussion to a particular religion like Islam for example, maybe you could probably call Christians atheists with respect to Allah only.

Kobojunkie:
Probably by rejecting opinions and ideas that are widely accepted


Sure, but that doesn't mean they are open-minded individuals though.

Daejoyoung:
So how does your quote invalidate whatever I said? You are a funny one, albeit interesting, lol.

Daejoyoung:
I call atheists atheists, because they don't believe anything at all was the first cause.

Deists believe that something was the first cause, and religious people believe that too. Agnostics don't know, but may be open to it. Atheists as we have come to know them are the very opposite of theists, they reject the question of the first cause. To them there is no first cause, and we are just here.

To understand more about atheism, read about the German philosopher Nietzsche.
Of course we are all atheiststic and agnostic to other things, but specifically the term atheism is a philosophical ( not necessarily religious) question of the concept of God as the source of everything.

Daejoyoung:
lol, you are not simply a free thinker because you don't believe in God or because you reject religious gods. At best you should not be an atheist, you should be willing to consider all angles, there are lots of things we don't know yet. So this is the reason I don't see the relationship between atheism and free thinking.
Many atheists boldly tell religious folks there is no god. All atheists I know are not open to the supernatural( even if they don't believe in it). How is that free thinking?
Are you open to anything? the fact that you look down on religious people makes me think you are not as open minded as you claim.

BTW, you can be a free thinker and yet decide to be close minded or adamant due to your inherent bias.

Atheism is not simply a worldview on the fence, it makes some assumptions by default. For the fact that it rejects God philosophically

Kobojunkie:
You can in fact be one and not the other. Check the dictionary meanings of the terms you use at least.

Kobojunkie:
huh?

Do you mean this?
The meaning contained states that
Atheism IS NOT disbelief in the existence of a particular God or some gods <==> Atheism is disbelief in the existence of God or gods.
Do you see they are equivalent?

Daejoyoung:
Are deists also atheists? if so, then everyone is an atheist, and then the term atheism becomes meaningless.

Daejoyoung:
Your definition is making my point. You disbelieve in Gods or God or such a concept in the first place. It doesn't say because you disbelieve in certain gods or the gods of religion, but that you disbelieve in the concept.

There is a reason we don't call Agnostics and Deists atheists, even though they like you accept no religious God.

Daejoyoung:
Atheism can also be made a religion. By default it is a naturalistic religion, just like deism.
Atheists like religious people also assume things from a particular point of view, and most times it could be difficult to reason with them. Same goes for theists.

Christians can be close minded yes, but I have heard and seen atheists who do not even want to accept that there could be more to the physical world we perceive with our five senses. Atheists who adamantly tout evolution religiously, but understand nada about it, etc.

Daejoyoung:
Are you open minded?

Kobojunkie:
His logic? I understand what he is attempting at but the fact is it fails when you consider the meaning of the word in question, and the logic therein.
- Atheism != disbelief in the existence of a particular God or some god's

Kobojunkie:
Open-mindedness has nothing to do with travel or the lack of it.

Daejoyoung:
Atheism is disbelief in the existence of God ( any God). It doesn't say atheism is disbelief in the existence of a God or some Gods.

So in that sense, the fact that I ever considered the question of God as relevant, even relevant enough to have my Spaghetti Monster, means the question of God philosophically to me is not an irrelevant question. To the atheist, it is irrelevant. Try to digest what I said, rather than repeating yourself, because by default you assume I don't know what you are trying to say.

You are making a false comparison, and I understood that from the beginning. You are the one ignoring my points.

Daejoyoung:
We are going round in circles, from my first post I told you the definition of atheism is a question of God from a philosophical stand point.

I would simply call you an unbeliever if you are open to the existence of a GOD AS SOURCE but I would never call you an atheist.
That is the bone of contention here, it doesn't matter what or who this God is.

The question is: Are you open to calling anything GOD? you may even believe your phone is God and should be worshipped, and you are no longer an atheist to me. It doesn't mean I also believe your phone is a real god.

Xavfra:
That's why I said a greater part......
Free minded as an atheist is that you're able to let in new information into your head (it's your duty to scrutinise it)

I've as well argued with fanatical Christians and most if not all I've met aren't open minded

Daejoyoung:
I have told you no, lol.
So how does that prove your point?
I answered your question in my last post as NO.

I don't believe in Allah, so how does that make me an atheist? since you wanna go round in circles, or it may just be that you don't even understand what you are talking about.

atheism
/ˈeɪθɪɪz(ə)m/

disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Daejoyoung:
No but that is not the position of the atheist. I believe the world requires a creator, I believe in the need for a god, the atheist does not.

It's a simple sturv.

Daejoyoung:
Allah is something or a being the muslim believes in, he is taken as Almighty by muslims, therefore I know that muslims are not atheists. Even though I disagree with them.

As for me, I believe in the spaghetti monster as the only true god, and the Muslim cannot call me an atheist for believing in the flying spaghetti monster.

Even though the muslim and I both disbelieve in the flying monster and Allah respectively, we are not atheists in the true sense of the word, when thinking about each other, we just see each other as unbelievers and pagans, not atheists.

Atheists don't even have a santa clause or flying monster or Allah/jesus, etc.

Kobojunkie:
So you say!
I thought you just stated that you don't like digressions?
Dude! Make up your mind !

Daejoyoung:
No, but the muslims know that I believe in something. Something as a source, even if they want to call it Santa claus.

But both I and the Muslim know that atheists don't believe in anything. Not even Santa Clause.

You get the difference?

Kobojunkie:
The definition of the word as posted is from the dictionary, not a bible. There is nothing religious to the definiton there.
Stop pretending you can present the delusions of your own mind as valid concepts in this. Learn to stick to the topic of discussion.
You are wrong! And I only have the dictionary definition of the word "Atheism" to show this.
Well, I don't call you an atheist because I think you are a religious kind. I used to be an atheist myself-- I found God in October of 2017 mind you, but I never trolled religious chatrooms/forums making inane assertions such as the one you have here, twisting the meaning of words to make some moot point.
That said, the word "atheism" refers to those who have no God. Sure, atheists also fall under the "unbeliever" flag, but unbelievers are not all the same. A Muslim would not call me an atheist since I do believe in a God, just not his/her God. I would not call a pagan an atheist because a Pagan in fact believes in at least one god, just not the same God as mine. And so on and so forth!

Daejoyoung:
You are the one digressing here, the op states that christians and muslims are atheists to other religions for not accepting those gods. We aren't debating proof of a god here, so why bring that up in my first reply to you?
The point is that muslims and Christians are not atheists in the way the word is used today, the Romans called Christians atheists then ( I know), but today atheism is philosophical. When you say someone is an atheist, it means the person rejects a being or external power as the source of our existence.

Daejoyoung:
What if a christian doesn't disbelieve in the existence of the muslim god, but simply believes his Christian God is superior? would your theory still hold?

Xavfra:
That's the benefit of.atheism it makes you free minded

Daejoyoung:
Are you talking about proof in the existence of a God? or you are simply saying that religious people are atheists too?

Many religious people do not doubt the existence of the gods of some other religions for instance, they just believe they are devils. e.g it is not uncommon for a Christian to say Ahmadioah is a demon, that christian is not necessarily questioning the existence of ahmadioah but rather he is saying Ahmadioah is the devil ( enemy of both man and God).

So let me get your arguement straight, are you talking about proof of the existence of God? or you are simply saying the ACCEPTANCE of only one God, makes muslims and Christians atheists to other religious people?

Kobojunkie:
Although proof is desired, it is not a requirement.
Again, take a close review of the meaning of the word.


But it is not atheism, not according to the very definition of the word itself.
No it is not! You have to have a clear understanding of what "atheism" means. Again, disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God, not in a particular God or some gods but all.
Well, there is no law that one has to prove that His God is almighty in with verifiable evidence before one is allowed to believe in God.

But back to the point here, which is that the word atheism cannot be correctly applied in the scenario which you suggest here.

a·the·ism
/ˈāTHēˌizəm/

disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.