₦airaland Forum

Melvyn11:
How won't he score goals at Chelsea when he takes all the Penalties. We have already dissected his best goalscoring season and it was all awoof penalties. Bring lampard season by season tally minus the awoof penalties you will see they were ordinary.

Can you take away penalties from his 27 goal season in 2009/10 and tell us. . . . then also bring your favourite midfielder own let us be the judge.

I'm not a big fan of Ramos, but I don't have energy to argue with those who will throw his trophies in my face.

If Ramos was that great, given his trophy count, they should be mentioning him with Maldini, Baresi and Mathhaus by now. Those guys trophy count is nowhere near Ramos, but no one would dare mention Ramos with them.

Ramos is simply a 7/10 to 7.5/10 defender. Madrid concede bucketloads in the league, and both Ramos and Varane always look suspect and disorganised. He should thank his lucky stars to be around in a great period. There are many 7/10 players in Great teams. Great teams only need a couple of 10/10 players, and the rest can be 7/10 and they will still be great. Gary Neville is a good example.

Leyqute:
He’ll also have to share the goals and assists with others.

That's like saying Ronaldo will have to share goals if he goes to City.

In a team that scores more, Lampard will simply score more.

The only full season Lampard played under Ancelotti, he scored 27 goals and made 20 assists. Obinojazz estimate of 15 goals and 10 assists is GROSSLY underestimated. This is a man who went 7 years at Chelsea popping 20 goals each year. In City who are scoring more, Lampard will score more, excluding penalties.

Even at 35/36 years old, he still went to the same City and was scoring every 160 mins. Infact, if not for getting 10 mins here and there, his average would be much higher. There was one point he dragged City back into the title race earlier in the season, scoring back to back to back. Pellegrini made a mistake to bench him for the 2nd half of the season, and that's when City dropped off the title race.

On the original question, I will still take KDB over Lampard though. I feel KDB can score more goals than he does if he plays further up, and he will out-assist Lampard also.

EvilMetahuman:
heard it's because he hasnt done much civ football like his opponent.

But that's African politics for you..

Cos you are the perfect fit for a position doesnt mean you get the job.
You gotta learn the politics.

One of the reasons everything in Africa is just whack..

This would be the obvious reason they would give. It may be true, or maybe they are running parole from which they feed their families, and Drogba is not in the inner circle of those paroles. Same reason why Segun Odegbami could not get far in NFF but we keep seeing nonentities like Amaju Pinnick.

I assure you, if both of us are running package somewhere and feeding our family from it, we would never allow even Obama or Mandela to come and take over.

It would be interesting to see who the voters are. If it's comfortable ex-Internationals like Dindane, Kalou, Toure them, then I will believe they truly feel Drogba is not the man for grassroots football. However if it's those hungry guys who never made money like Ivorien versions of Khadiri Ikhana, then I would say corruption is the main reason.

I would be very interested to know the reasons behind this result for Drogba. The man is extremely popular in CIV, he has political and philanthropic experience and an Accounting degree meaning he has brains for administration, but all of his colleagues refuse to vote for him. Is it African factor?

OPUSDEI1:
The OP wrote like an accountant.

But he makes sense

Mine is less than 2%

larride:
Both of them play together in EPL from 06 - 14. They both were in their prime. It’s not about any agend, for those years they played together, Vidic was better than him and his 2 times Premier league player of the year attest to the fact.

Since 94/95 that Premier league started awarding Player of the season, Vidic was the first defender to win it and as at today, he’s the only defender to win it twice.

When your fellow Manure fans sef are telling you, neutrals are telling you, you just need to respect what you didn't witness properly

raumdeuter:
I prefer defenders who have both techniques in their arsenal, So anyhow you bring it they are ready. Those Keane and Simeone can also guide into traffic while Makelele can also go hard on you

VVD is only effective where a coaches tactic makes it only that the defender only has to mop up, In Peps Man City or another pattern thats very offensive where the defence is always open and becomes 1 vs 1 quickly, Guiding into traffic wont work

VVD has both in his locker easily, just that he decided to play the Insurance role as Marip and Lovren are also tall and can engage, so let the most intelligent one sweep up.

You can have no better insurance than VVD because should the first engagement fail, he has the physical capacity for the last ditch, whether that is size, pace or strength. Most times, he never even needs to use the tackle because he will turn what should be a late ditch tackle into a simple shading where his size will just ease out the attacker. The only one or two times he delays the engagement and it turns to a goal, you will highlight it out of proportion, but he has a reason he delays till the last moment, and 95% of the time it works.

If you remember Madrid vs Leverkusen final, Makelele was tackling everything moving. I've never seen a midfielder tackle so much before. Soon as he came to Chelsea, he changed completely to a non-tackling midfielder that just guides you into danger because Chelsea played a low block and that was the less risky option of dispossessing you, unlike Madrid who played gung-ho so tackles were necessary. The point being that it is a choice which style to play and Makelele went with the non-confrontational option at Chelsea because he could afford to.

Same with VVD. His style is his choice but he is more than capable of doing both. Infact the style he has gone with is better for the team overall. Let's say he was playing with a natural sweeper like Lothar Matheus and co, he would be the one engaging while they sweep up.

Expert17:
Its yeye question,....because i can mention 7+ club legends he displaced both @ club and country level....

This is a very foolish question given that Vidic played for Serbia.

Ferdinand get luck say Vidic was not English otherwise he would be the one on the bench watching Vidic play.

timbros:
Truth is coming out small small. So VVD avoids 1 vs 1 so that Matip/Gomez and TAA/Robertson fall back to help out.? Hmmmm talk about community defending.

I have no problem with both styles of defending TBH. I don't have to see aggressive defending nor do I have to see clean defending to rate you. Whichever one you are doing, just do it well.

Just like you have Roy Keane, Edgar Davids and Diego Someone that can kill you with tackles, or you have Makelele who hardly tackles but specializes in guiding you into traffic. Both are still great DMs.

VVD style of defending is very effective for me, same as Vidic that will engage you.

Expert17:
How will ferninard play well with this team

Caroll/Howard
G.Neville Ferdinard. Brown/Oshea/Silvestre P.neville/Heinze

(thou, he was in team of the year 2004/2005)
Vidic will struggle with this players

Sorry to tell you, the only weak player there is Silvester and Carroll who are backups anyway.

All the rest are easily capable of winning leagues. It is their leader that is the problem. We saw this weak leadership in QPR later as he led them to relegation while they drank goals like kunu. We can expect old age to play a part in one-on-ones but their defense had the most shambolic disorganisation cos their leader has little defensive sense. He needed Vidic to lead him to be honest.

Expert17:
Someone played in EPL from 1996 - 2015.................you are using 2003-2006 to judge him

Even Maldini/Cannaravo/ Nesta will suffer with the defenders and goalkeepers in Man Utd during 2003-2006.

Xavi played from like 1998 to 2016, yet we only use 2008 to 2012 to judge him.

He played 1996-2015, yet achieved next to nothing except the 6 years when Vidic stabilised him.

Before that, we have already given him the tag of John Stones, hyped in smaller clubs but becoming a laughing stock when he reached the club where reliability matters.

spillo1:
LORD.......I wish I can like the bold a million times. What a perfect explanation. Last season Van dijk attempted 38 tackles and came out with a perfect score of not being dribbled past. What Van Dijk does is ensure that he is not fully exposed by commiting recklessly, and he instead looks to stay with his man, force a decision, intercept or block the ball. This highlights his superb reading of the game and near-flawless defending. Ferdinand was similar. He used to go on many matches without committing a foul, 30+ games sometimes, because he didn't have to engage attackers physically to shut them down.

Ferdinand own is more like John Stones own than VVD own.

Going 53 games or whatever without yellow card is nothing to be proud about when attackers are washing you regularly. At least borrow sense and bring them down.

Perception of Ferdinand will be highly influenced by whether you watched him from 2003 to 2006. Older Manure fans might forgive him due to later success, but us neutrals have already bookmarked him as a laughing stock that period and know that Vidic is the only one stabilising him. It's only those fans who came of age during the latter years that will be hailing him, the rest of us have already seen fowl nyash when breeze was blowing.


Defender with little sense. We even saw in QPR that his brain is not sharp in defending, disgracing himself every week without fail at an age where defenders should be showing their experience to organise those around them.

timbros:
Ibime why you dey fall hand like this?

Alex was NEVER better than Carvalho. NEVER.

Alex no doubt na very fine defender, with those thunder free kicks wey dey tear net. But as long as Carvalho is fit, that CB position na him and Terry.

The 2008/09 season wey you talk, Carvalho being dey struggle with injuries.

Greatihex:
one day we will read here on how jorginho chased Kante away. That time if we talk, them go say we still dey primary school then.

Never said Alex was better. I simply said he lost his place. There is an age you will be when you watch matches where you will remember in detail.

Carvalho had injuries but returned in mid-March, by which time we had a new manager in Hiddink. Hiddink put him straight back in the team the minute he returned from injury, however Alex was playing too well and Carvalho end up getting bullied by Kevin Davies in a match against Bolton where we were cruising 4-0 and ended up 4-3 with Davies constantly targeting Carvalho in the air which led to goals. After that match, Hiddink refused to put Carvalho even on bench again, preferring to put Mancienne on bench.

UCL QF against vs Liverpool, Carvalho was a bench player for Alex. By the time we reached the semifinal against Barca, Hiddink refused to put Carvalho even on bench again, relegating him for Mancienne. Hiddink froze him out throughout April and May, having first brought him back in March. And obviously Alex was beasting that period, even with freekicks as we saw against Liverpool in UCL.

So yes, Alex benched him sotay he started asking for transfer by season end having lost his place. Injury may be a mitigation for poor form, but it is his poor form and Alex good form that lost him his place. You can hear from Carvalho himself.

afrodoc2:
Kai!

Look at Carvalho’s life outside. Fat Alex benching him and chasing him away?

TOUGH!

Alex is quietly a top defender. It's not every player that will come with massive hype, same as Gilberto Silva in Arsenal. And if he hammer long range freekick, wall dey scatter.

I still regret the day AVB sacked Alex, and he still went on to prove he was still a good defender at PSG.

Melvyn11:
Did he actually bench him or Carvalho was struggling with injuries which gave Alex some game time. Carvalho still played more games than Alex that season and he was already 32/33 before we bought him.

Alex benched him the full 2008/2009 and took substantial minutes from him in 2009/10

eph12:
Same reason I'll prefer Carvalho to Terry in Chelsea. Let the organizer be organizing, we know those who are jumping in front of bullets

Let's not forget that Alex benched Carvalho for a year before chasing him away to Madrid where he was only a starter for one year until he was benched again for his last 2 years

kendrick93:
I'm not a United fan BTW.
On Reddit and Redcafe Ferdinand is rated as the better of the two...

Who uses Reddit and Redcafe. No be una mate them?

Expert17:
The education/information you are receiving from me, is making you shiver....thats why you are shouting Google...

If you want to compare them go to Vidic CV and bring out his record at all his clubs, not just from 2006-2013.....then compare with Ferdinard.

Vidic won 2 EPL best player.....Ferdinard was included in EPL all time 11..

You can only tell me what you read and what you are influenced by, not what you know and witnessed. Just like you read about Pedro playing against Manure in 2007/2008.

Meanwhile you are discussing with someone who watched EPL weekly in Ferdinands debut season.

Ferdinand was highly rated in the way that a young player is rated as good and certain mistakes overlooked. He was even touted as a midfielder and played there a few times for West Ham. You make few mistakes at West Ham and Leeds, it's quickly forgotten and your status remains high eg John Stones at Everton. When you come to Manure where every mistake could be the difference between winning and losing the league or UCL, it is a different ball game. Ferdinand was becoming unreliable from 2003 to 2006. Those mistakes of his youth would not be overlooked now.

Vidic is the Mr Reliable who performed mostly without error until about 2011, to the point where the only mistakes he made vs Torres turned into stuff of legend. For anything Vidic goofed against Torres, Ferdinand has goofed 5 times and went unremarked cos expectations are different.

Expert17:
Henderson might end up winning player of the season this year..... He will end up winning EPL title..gerrard couldn't win it.... Still, you can't compare him with GERRARD

Use your brain...

Intelligence doesn't come with age

It is a current primary school student that may come and tell you in 10 years that Hendo was better than Gerrard cos he captained an EPL and UCL winning side.

Same way Expert17, a clueless primary school student of the 2000s is telling me today that Ferdy was better than Vidic because he read on Google that Ferdy has been in EPL since 1996 and broke transfer records while Vidic was still in Serbia and Russia.

Expert17:
Go to Nairaland archive and bring out Vidic statistics at Spartak moscow and Inter Milan...

Who cares what Eusebio did in Mozambique? Na wetin happen for Benfica be the koko.

Ferdinand passport is the only thing giving him longer visibility at the highest level. When Vidic finally arrived, we know who senior who.

kendrick93:
Would you take a skysports over fans of Man utd who probably who have more knowledge on the subject?

Not young Manure fans like yourself who were still teenagers or primary school students when Vidic and Ferdinand were together and are influenced by media.

I would rather take the independent panel of experts at the time who twice made Vidic Premier League player of the year. I'm not talking of EPL team of the season which any attache to team success can win. I mean someone considered the best player in the whole league twice by Independent observers.

Expert17:
Nairaland football watcher....

You are comparing Ferdinard that started playing in EPL from 1996 and ended in 2015, to Vidic peak years of 2006-2013..... Go and bring Vidic past records at former clubs and inter Milan let's see..... You no sabi ball.

Ferdinard was the youngest defender to ever play for England national team then....

He already had over 100 appearances bfor year 2000...

He broke defender world transfer record Twice...

He was already captaining a great leeds United side @ 21

Comparing Vidic peak years to Ferdinard whole careers...... Am sure you didn't watch Vidic at Spartak moscow and Inter Milan.

Go and sit down

You are a Google analyst. I bet you are not up to 25 years old sef.

Who cares what Ferdinand did from 19 kporodim to 2057.

We are talking about 2006 to 2011 which is the period Ferdinand won anything worth writing home about, and Vidic was his senior in everything, twice winning Premier League player of the year.

If you check Ferdinand team and individual honours, 95% of any honours he will point to is in the 5 year period when Vidic came to rescue his career.

I suspect you are a young man who only started coming into his senses post 2011 when Vidic was on the wane.

Ferdinand was a regular customer for the likes of Aiyegbeni. Joe Cole disgraced him at Old Trafford while the midget Messi outjumped him in UCL final.

Every striker worth his salt has rinsed Ferdinand to the point it's not worth talking about, but when Torres rinsed Vidic it became a stuff of legend written about till today as people could not believe someone would do that to Vidic.

Many average wrestlers get dumped on their back regularly, but when Amalinze the Cat gets defeated, that's the only story that will be told.

kendrick93:
Ferdinand is rated as Man utd greatest CB ever.....
Go and check the polls on any man united fan site....

Younger fans who were not in their grown up senses will add to Ferdys votes as he is ever present in the media till today while Vidic disappeared off our screens when he left Manure

Vidic was voted greatest EPL defender of all time on Sky Sports.

Expert17:
@bolded....you sabi ball....

Vidic just enjoy those one on one battle with strong attackers ( drogba).... Against Fernando Torres and the rest, you wont see him.

Ferdinard reads the game better, more calm, .....

The same people will say Michael Carrick is not a top defensive midfielder because he dnt jump into tackles like the rest

You no sabi anything.

You're a YouTube watcher.

The only striker that Vidic struggled against in his prime in EPL was Torres

It came as much of a surprise as Vidic never had problem with anyone else and was given much press and highlighted for you YouTube revisionists.

Those of us watching the stuff live just know Torres was Vidic only weak point, while Ferdinand struggled against many strikers to where it was not worth highlighting.

It's just like any striker that toro VVD today will get much press coverage as opposed to someone like Rudiger who gets regularly washed

Vidic was far and above the dominant defender of that era. That's why independent panel twice voted him Premier League player of the season. Ferdinand own awards were never individual, just team of the season awards, as a result of team success.

Expert17:
2002 i was old enough to know how good Ferdinard was for Sir Alex to break our transfer record....
Why wont he struggle, he will partner Brown today, Oshea tomorrow, Silvestre next tomorrow, Blanc another time
Caroll, Howard and Barthez dropping album week in- week out

Evra is attacking, also got the energy to recover..... If you dnt know Evra was an upgrade to P.neville and Heinze, i cant help you again.

For the last time Vanderser, Vidic and Evra improved our back-line not just Vidic.

Fergie last season 2012/2013 Ferdinard and Evans played most of the matches.

Fergie last season was not won on defence but on RVP goals. Most of your matches that season were score me, I score you with results like 3-2 a regular occurrence.

You conceded 43 fücking goals that season, worse than all your rivals.

Expert17:
Big lie.....

Caroll, Howard and Barthez committing blunder every game ......costing more than 7+ points per season

Even left back was rubbish,.... Oshea, Heinze, P.Neville managing there...

Vidic, Evra and Vanderser solved the back line isssue, not just vidic

How old were you from 2002 to 2006?

Answer that question first before we go any further.

Same way some argue that Alison and Robertson solved Liverpool defence, not VVD.

Evra is an attacking fullback, what does he have to do with solving the centre of a leaking defence?

We know what we witnessed first hand and what the general consensus was - Ferdy was struggling before Vidic stabilised him.

And no, Ferdinand is not an organiser. He has always been the junior partner. Slaven Bilic organised him at West Ham, Woodgate organised him at Leeds and he was struggling for organisation till Vidic organised him at Manure. Even when he went to QPR as a senior man, he couldn't organise.

Even though Vidic was indomitable and aggressive in the air and physically strong, he was the organiser. Rio's job is to deal with footraces and passing the ball out of defence.

nitrogen:
He is rated above Vidic because he is English. Vidic was better.

He is not rated above Vidic anywhere. Vidic was always higher rated

Ferdinand was definitely carried by Vidic cos Manure defence was open from 2002 when Ferdinand joined till 2006 when Vidic joined

It was only when Vidic joined that that defence stabilised, before that Ferdinand was becoming a laughing stock

raumdeuter:
All these are amateur football, No top defender will need an external person (beyond the coach) to organize him on the field

That is why top defenders like Ramos dont need Varane to organize him to win 3 CL on the trot neither does Kompany need Lescott, Mangala or Otamendi to organize him

They can organize themselves and also get stuck in, not to be running away from attackers claiming organization

You will be surprised how many footballers are professional and still otu.

Most of them cannot organise. Communication and reading of the game is what separates the top defenders from the average. This is why I told you I preferred Okechukwu to Taribo in the latter years.

raumdeuter:
These category are those who hide from the ball and claim they are organising defence, When Ferdinand left who was organising Man Utd defence? Was it Evans or Oshea

Football is an activity not a presentation where you will be pointing and organising

You never played centre-back so you can never know.

In my University days 2005/2006 season, I switched to centreback and that's all I did. I organised the defence to drag one full back to the centre and he and my centre-back partner will go man to man with the oppositions strikers while I just drop back 5 yards. Their instruction was simple, attack the man as soon as ball comes and I will sweep up anything that drops loose.

I asked my teammates to keep tabs that we never concede from open play when I'm on the pitch due to this system and true true, we did not concede a single goal from open play all season when I played. The only goals we conceded were from setplays. It was even published on the Uni Sports website at the end of the season. If I can still find the website, I would show you.

Meanwhile, we had one centreback called Mai that everyone rated highly cos he jumps into every header and physically aggressive and always goes for the duel. As one of the senior men on the team, I relegate him to the bench anytime I'm available for matches and prefer to play with one Japanese boy and one English boy that can maintain our simple system of one man dropping 5 yards to clear up. True, true, results spoke for me cos everytime I play, cleansheet is almost guaranteed unless the opponent score freekick, while every time Mai played, they will be conceding like 2 goals. Centreback is not about activity, 80% of centreback work is organisation.

There was even one match where we did not have players due to other commitments and one of my teammates brought two American boys from his halls who could not even play football. I just put them in the same system and told them not to bother playing too much, just to jump and challenge every ball and I will sweep up anything that drops, and we even kept clean sheet that day.