₦airaland Forum

TheSuperNerd:
Just laying it down for Re-emphasis' sake Dad...

I don't belong among those that twist the performance of a player. If you do well I say it else I will also say it.

Many of you thought I hated Iheanacho back then but I am sure you understand me better today.

Kog45:
Kai chief icon4s,Iwobi know him papa o.

Of course he is one of my favorite players because he plays for my two favorite teams.

Meanwhile my Enyimba doing it against Djoliba of Mali. 1-0 For Eyimba 60mins in Calabar.

TheSuperNerd:
Yes, But does that reduce his impact and importance to the team? Or you have not read Rohr's interview stating unequivocally that Iheanacho is so vital to this team? How Nacho's quality can rescue the team in tight situations? Nacho is one of the top key players in this team either from the start or from the bench. After all, even KANU made his importance known from the bench most times... does that mean he is not a key player? because he didn't start most games?

Our set-up now favors Ighalo as our top 9. Nacho can start maybe when we switch to that formation we used against Argentina or in a two strikers upfront set -up. All in all Nacho is so important to the Super Eagles and Those are not even my words But Rohr's.

Sure you know you cannot preach to me about the importance of Iheanacho to this team.

Iwobi my boy!!!

Nice pass from Iwobi to Belerin for Lacazette's goal.

MetalJigsaw:
Ex-Croatia Star Vukojević: We Must Beat Nigeria To Advance At Russia 2018


Former Croatia midfielder Ognjen Vukojević believes a win for his country against Nigeria in their opening group D match at the 2018 World Cup in Russia will boost their chances of qualifying for the second round of the tournament.

Croatia will take on Nigeria at the Kalingrad Stadium in Kalingrad, Russia on June 16 before facing two-time champion, Argentina on 21 June and debutants Iceland five days later in their remaining two group games.

Vukojević made 55 appearance and scored four goals for Croatia until he retired after the 2014 World in Brazil.

“The first match with Nigeria, is crucial, we need to win that game and the rest will be easy. I believe in Croatia and I believe we can make success in Russia,” Vukojević told glas-slavonije.hr.

“Croatia have a great generation of mature players in the team now and probably this is the last chance for these great players playing in big clubs to make an impact at the world stage.”

Real Madrid’s Mateo Kovačić, Liverpool’s Dejan Lovren, Juventus’ Mario Mandžukić, Real Madrid’s Luka Modrić, Inter Milan’s Ivan Perišić and Barcelona’s Ivan Rakitić are some of the Croatia players playing for top clubs in Europe.

“It should be step by step, but I think we have a big team to beat Nigeria with little details in our favour,” Vukojevic added.
“We now know their strengths but must exploit their weaknesses.”

Croatia are going for their fifth appearance at the FIFA World Cup having managed to qualify from the group twice in 1998 and 2014, while at in Korea/Japan 2002 and Germany 2006 they failed to qualify from the group stages.



https://www.completesportsnigeria.com/ex-croatia-star-vukojevic-must-beat-nigeria-advance-russia-2018/

Hmm... even the Croats know that is the key game for both teams in the group.

MetalJigsaw:
I'm talking about his recently bereaved first team place in the team... When the suspended defender returns he'd be back to the bench.

No course for alarm bro.

TheSuperNerd:
Average after coming in from the bench abi? It is not about him being average... he actually did nothing when he came on because there was nothing he could do. Even Martins came on and we could not penetrate. The team just failed to fly that day despite Simon Moses coming so close by hitting the post from a freekick... so my ish is not with you saying he was average when he came on.

My ish is with the way you were using that to back up your former stand back then, that Nacho was not ready. But Nacho shattered all that talk and sent it to the bins with his subsequent performances. You were also of the opinion that it would take Nacho time to settle because of his age... but Nacho didn't need much time... he set the ball rolling almost immediately.

Wait but do you realize iheanacho is not a first team player in this team?

I am even one those advocating for him to be a regular.

tbaba1234:
Ekong on the bench, Omeruo was also benched in the last game... Balogun and Ebuehi just recovering from injury..

These are experienced professionals. No course for alarm bro. The camping period is enough time.

TheSuperNerd:
But I recall you saying he was not ready at that age. He is 21 now (birthday is in October). He was about 18 or 19 then. You even said there was nothing special about him. You even brought in Eguavoen remember? And what did Eguavoen say? "He's just a decent/good player... nothing special"... and you posted it here for us all to digest as your own view too. Yet this same kid got the ball rolling in no time and have racked up goals for the Super Eagles, some of them in super stunning fashion.

That Crystal palace was what changed Oliseh's mind for the Swaziland first leg list (he only added Nacho's name late after he had releases the original list). Just one game... but Nacho had shown himself against same opponent in a super short cameo. He also showed himself in preseason scoring against Roma, Stuttgart.

Even after that Crystal palace game I still recall you still not being so convinced on Nacho. Saying Nacho struggled when he came in against Swaziland but in Nacho's very next game, he bagged an assist against Egypt for Etebo's first Super Eagles goal. And he kept it rolling from then on....

And I am not pushing for an sound inclusion of Osimhen and K.Nwakali... I am only saying we should keep our eyes on them because I have seen that these two among others will come good in the long run. Simple.

I don't know if it is possible for you to dig out my post about Iheanacho after that Palace game. Coincidentally I spoke with Eguavoen earlier that day.

Even Oliseh had to wait for Iheanacho to prove himself so what are we talking about? Iheanacho was average in his debut game and why would it be difficult to say say it? Can you compare Iheanacho's debut game with that of Etebo? When a player performs well I say it and when he is average or flops I say it. Or how would you rate Iheanacho in his debut game?

asha80:
I think it has to do with his movements.. if you watch him play for SE there is this zig zag type of movements he does.. I used to wonder why did that as a full back until I found out he is actually a defensive midfielder and only plays right back for national team

He also played in the CM in Keshi's 2014 CHAN team

TheSuperNerd:
Ehmmm... Chief... Please don't take that line because I never took such... It was never about "age does not matter." When did I ever make such stand? Don't say things in misinterpreted forms because you want to drive home a point. Yes Osimhen is 19... it is a fact... and Rohr saw enough of him to hand him his debut. That is good sign for the future and Rohr still talks about the lad. Rohr rates Osimhen highly but we must also allow him grow.

I am not for all this age talk... I am for talk of ability and quality. That has always been my approach to these matters. So Dont act like you don't now know my stand on young players all because you wanna win an argument.

And Osimhen and K.Nwakali may not be ready now... but it doesnt cancel the fact that you were 100% shades of wrong on Kelechi Iheanacho being ready at same age...and it also doesn't erase the fact that we still have those young talents who are national team materials and ready for the GWG even at 20. Iwobi was one of such who were ready. Need I mention a few more?

Iheanacho's case was different as he was already playing at ManCity senior team. Compare the competition he faced for a starting place as against Osimhen and Nwakali in their clubs. And need I say that Iheanacho proved himself to Oliseh before he got the call up. You remember the Crystal Palace game? Yes he had to convince us(me inclusive)
As for Iwobi, his talent was so obvious that I personally clamored for his inclusion because we lacked that kind of creative AM in the Super Eagles(Mikel was still being played in CM then). Silvester Igboun was our AM(number 10). Iwobi was so very impressive during the preseason friendlies including the Emirates cup. So I saw enough for me to push for Iwobi. I was convinced he was ready.

But I have not seen anything worthy of note from K. Nwakali and Osimhen that would warrant me to push for their inclusion. Rohr has the final say we only have our various opinions.

TheSuperNerd:
Shehu Abdullahi's Stats from Bursaspor's narrow 2-1 away loss to Fenerbache in the Turkish Super Lig

According to Whoscored.com...


Overall rating: 7.2

Passing accuracy: 71%

Passes: 28

Touches: 54

Fouls: 1

Dribbles: 1

Tackles: 6


He played as a DMF in a double pivot.

Shehu is an asset.

Very tactically disciplined. Look the number of fouls for a DM for a whole 90mins. The reason I would not want him to move to the DM position in the SE is because that position is already loaded.

TheSuperNerd:
At a point he did naa. Give the lad a break joor...he is still just 19. His "main" time will come if he keeps his head.

Ow! now you remember he is 19. But when you are rating these guys you claim age doesn't matter.

It is based on their age and level of exposure(this especially) that I am refusing to press for them to be pushed into the SE. It is not every year that players like Pele, Maradona, Ronaldo and Messi are born.

Osimhen and K. Nwakali are not ready for the SE

TheSuperNerd:
"More likely".... yes... but still with no guarantees when we look at Dudu, Javier Saviola, Chris Ohenhen, Luis Enrique (2011-brazil), And many more.

More likely yes. Of course you should know I cannot say it is a guarantee.

TheSuperNerd:
But the issue was also on who will likely get to feature for the team... Osimhen did that even ahead of time. Is he ready? Well, he still has much to learn no doubt. But K Nwakali will have to wait his turn by first doing more and convincing that he can compete and add value at that level of the national team. I am not out to say Rohr should load the team with every damn young talented player... no. But was only making a light forecast into what may be or not using two of Nigeria's talented teen stars who have both been talked about by Rohr. The team is still growing as it is so integration is sure but the speed of it will be pretty slow and gradual.

In fact I remember the topic is if they can "break into" the team. But has Osimhen broken in?

TheGoodJoe:
Iheanacho was ready for the Senior National team but written off because of his was not a club regular when the National team was in the position of guiding him into a favorable position with his club.

I am sure you know clubs have more time to guide players than the national team.

The national team requires players who can deliver now.

The fans and FA are not usually patient with coaches who cannot deliver immediately after appointment.

TheSuperNerd:
Yes on one hand I do understand. But on another hand, seeing you say you rate any outstanding talent at U-20 level more than you do at U-17 level makes me wonder...

Dudu, Saviola, Ismail Matar, Maximilliono Lopez, Rubin Okotie, etc... all were outstanding at U-20 level... but didn't fly high at senior level. Like Sir Tbaba said, even the U-20 has its own deceptions like the U-17 just like both levels have long lists of players who were outstanding at those levels and went on to lit up the senior level. Sometimes, some will pass thru unnoticed but will become gods at Senior level.

Haha, the main focus of our discussion was even K. Nwakali cos Rohr had already stated he had interest in Osimhen and as at then had been making Rohr's list of invitees.

But can you look at this current set up and say Osimhen is an integral part of this team?

Rohr saw him as a prospect for the tomorrow. But the SA game thought him that he needed to win today to secure his job for the tomorrow. And he dropped Osimhen and went for players who can deliver the goods now. The truth is Osimhen is not ready for the SE.

And for the U20, players who perform well at that level are more likely to carry on to the next level (senior team) than those from U17. The two levels are not the same in that regards.

MetalJigsaw:
Una no dey even discuss better thing sef. I'm off

Bye-bye.

TheGoodJoe:
As I said before, there should be a criteria for the there. A player can not be ready for the National team and gets written off with there. Also, guidance plays a big role to the successes of players. Like Wenger with Fabregas or Pellegrini with Forlan, Rossi, Carzola, Riquelme and Isco. A lot of our promises do not get this guidance and that is why I will always call for the National team on all levels providing guidance if we are to raise lots of top quality players.

If we are discussing national team selections please be sitting national team examples. Because they are two different ball games.

TheGoodJoe:
Former Brazil and Manchester City striker Jo has been released by Atletico Mineiro because of indiscipline.

Atletico Mineiro released the striker and two other players on Monday, saying they committed a “serious” breach of team rules after a Brazilian league match this weekend. Club officials did not elaborate.

Jo had already been punished by the club this year after failing to arrive at practice on time. He had claimed he was undergoing family problems.

http://www.thehindu.com/sport/football/former-brazil-striker-jo-released-by-atletico-citing-indiscipline/article6563053.ece

A better word to have described it could have been Indiscipline and not that he stopped working hard.

A player can be indisciplined and still be hard working. Anyways let's not deviate. I get your Point.

TheGoodJoe:
I always try to pick those I feel will come good in a long run. Some will, some won't.

I am glad you are appreciating the importance of "long run". Yes, cos it takes time for these players to start making the bold statements. Expecting too much from them at this early stages is what I always caution peeps here about.

A player is not there yet if he is not there yet.

TheGoodJoe:
Jo's problem was over confidence in his ability and he stopped working hard.

How did you know he stopped working hard?

You think the only path to success is hardwork and anyone who has failed didn't work hard?

TheGoodJoe:
I have been doing this for too long to believe in practically stroll into the starting lineup. A player can be good but the wrong position can make him look bad. Wrong style of play can also affect display of quality. These are what they call picks. It takes time for young players to reach their Potentials some times.

Look at Renato Augusto who was hailed as the best in the 2007 U20 Brazil team. There was a time he was off radar. It took him close to a decade to make his breakthrough into the Brazilian team. It is never a snap of the fingers. I still see Osimhen making a big break but it depends on hard Work and a series of good Fortune.

Of course Osimhen and other young players will get their time if they continue working hard and improving.

I know the argument that ensued here between me and TheSuperNerd on whether Kelechi Nwakali would have broken into the Super Eagles team before the 2018 WC.

We know these players are talented but the expectations on them to blow so early was so high.

You and I have no control over the development of these players so u cannot come openly to beat your chest that this player will do this or this player will do that.

As I have always said, I have seen very obvious talents all around the World fail to live to expectations. So I cannot vouche for any young player predicting he will be pulling up trees when he has not even started playing professional football.

My ideology is I Watch how a young player is developing and see him compete at certain levels before knowing whether to expect much from him or less.

I will always like to see an U17 star compete again at U20 and possibly U21 or U23.

TheGoodJoe:
Ronaldinho was and he was very brilliant in the final game of the U17. Toni Kroos team let him down. His quality was not in doubt. I think he scored our team with the best keeper in the tournament a brilliant free kick. Not long after that he made his debut for Bayern Munich.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J42_2xud6Ow

Watch the U17 1997 final clip. The lanky Kid that took the shot the keeper saved and gave the assist for the second goal was Ronaldinho. He was brilliant. Then he was referred to as the new Ronaldo. By then De Lima was the best player in the World.

Yes I know. That is why I picked him and Kroos from that your list. Go back to that my comment and read again.

Any young player can come out good but the kind of certainty you placed on certain players was what I was against.

You practically believed Osimhen would have strolled into the Eagles line up by now.

TheSuperNerd:
Javier Saviola. Indeed you are spot on Sir Tbaba.

I also recall Dudu from UAE 2003 U-20, same tournament that had a certain Andreas Iniesta of Spain. Iniesta was not reckoned with much but Dudu was... Dudu faded but Iniesta went on to be world class. Same with Dani Alves who won Bronze ball... Dani Alves outshone the golden and silver ball winners (Ismail Matar and Dudu) based on who made it at the top of the game.

There are couple more of such examples of young talents who exploded at U-20 level but still didnt make the grade at senior level. Well said.

You now understand why I don't just jump up at the mention of any young player.

Let the player start doing it first at senior club level and I will recon with him for the Senior national team.

Development of players is not an arithmetic progression for all players. Some develop Geometrically while others even stagnate. Even the MVPs of past U17s are not spared of this stagnation.

TheGoodJoe:
It does not count. We have even the likes of Toni Kroos, Fabregas, David Silva, Ronaldinho, David De Gea, Marcelo and many more become prolific after their U17 days. As long as Osimhen keeps working hard, his time will come.

From that your list only Toni Kroos and Ronaldinho were really outstanding at the U17.

The other players blossomed as they advanced in age. Being an MVP or highest goal scorer at U17 does not mean you will be the best player of your generation or class.

At a point some of you were already reserving the number 9 jersey for Osimhen. You probably thought right from his first season at Wolfsburg he will start tearing down defenses.

Being a highest goal scorer at U17 shouldn't give you an automatic ticket to the Super Eagles. He still has to work hard to earn it. He doesn't even deserve the singlular cap he got under Rohr.

For now, he has not done enough to be considered.

tbaba1234:
Even under 20 can be deceptive.. Ronaldinho was not the best player in Nigeria 99 but players who performed much better than him disappeared from the scene.

Saviola was explosive at under 20, never quite reached the level expected of him.

Thank you. You understand.

safarigirl:
Mikel played against Argentina bro......


I still won't count Moses into that indispensable group.

As far as I am concerned, we don't really need Moses to win games as much as we need Mikel

You get the point.

andrew444:
Me and you know dele alampasu will not make the list but you guys in this thread like giving hope to someone who will not make it

On the 35 man list there will be 5 goalies. It is only if Rohr invites Aiyenugba that Alampasu will not likely make the list.

Oasis007:


Sure anything is Possible, coz it's possible for Swansea to win their last two Matches too.

Just like they can lose both

13mins left for West Brom to be relegated. And also for Swansea to drop into relegation Zone