₦airaland Forum

Kog45:
Truly not much difference but they cannot be compared coz i remember Bonfrere Jo was doing a lot for Clemens tactically and it was obvious but i don't know of Rohr may he has someone doing it for him too

Yes club football is totally different from national team football and cannot be compared tactically.Rohr already has his team and they are doing well,so to tamper with d team w not be easy especially on d verge of making it to d WC.

I see Rohr as a very conservative coach that need assistance in area of tactics coz i w not deceive u d team has been playing as a compact team which i understand.

I believe before WC things w take shape and we w see a better and balance team

You get the point my man

Mickael2:
Ok I have to strongly disagree here.

There was a game we were playing, I think it was against Algeria in 2005? Westerhof was in the NTA studios, immediately the team sheet was released he analysed the games and told us how it would pan out and the number of goals Nigeria would score in the first half and bam it happened. In the second half too he said he expects Martins speed to be a bonus plus other things he said and there we go it happened that way.


Westerhof after 4 years built a team that was easily outplaying Bulgaria and most of the teams on the African continent, trust me after 4years our team would still be dragging with Zambia. German coaches as a matter of fact do not dwell on team spirit/maintaining the same team etc etc (cc Joachim Low, Jurgen Klinsman and Klopp ), these people depend on their tactical nous and their ability to get players to play to their formation, that is why teams like Germany and USA under Klinsman can field an entirely different 11 and still maintain the same identity, the only day we failed to name 3 of our starters we were playing kick and follow football.


I applaud Rohr for his all round man-management skills but comparing him tactically to Westerhof is just not true

See, the principle is same all across. You don't tamper with the set up of the team at random. If the team is not getting results you can chose to overhaul but when the team is getting results you try as much as possible to maintain shape so as not to lose balance. This is a simple principle in coaching.

I have worked with Westerhof (I learnt coaching from him) and I know what I mean by he not being much different from Rohr in terms of tactical approach to games and team selection.


If the NFF wants to get any of those coaches you listed then they should be ready to shoulder the huge financial responsibility. I have said it that Rohr, tactically is not amongst the bests but the other things he brings to the team have carried the team thus far.

Then also remember that Club football is different from national team football. And remember also that it took Westerhof 5 years to build that team that featured at the 1994 World Cup and I completely disagree with you that the current crop cannot dominate African opposition. We are working towards that and we will get there but remember also that football has generally progressed in Africa. You can hardly dominate for too long.

TheGoodJoe:
That was my point from the start. I pointed it out because of the heavy criticism Iheanacho came under on this thread and how much we needed a powerful forward. How Iheanacho is not a true number nine and a true number nine will make a better choice.

Now the powerful forward had a poor game and a lot did not criticise. Shows bias to me.

They are only following your footsteps. Hahaha.

Mujtahida:
Are you satisfied with Rohr's tactical prowess? Cos he emphasises so much on team spirit, cohesion, discipline and hardwork which are very good things but is such emphasis not a cover for inadequate tactical nous as some like Mickael2 (if I'm not mistaken) have alleged as in allege that he ain't all that strong tactically?

Tactically, Rohr may not be up there amongst the best but his ability to instill team spirit, cohesion, discipline and hardwork is top notch.This is typical of German coaches and German teams.

Rohr is just almost like Westerhof including tactically.

TheGoodJoe:
Keep in mind he is talking about modern game. Look at Guardiola tinkering with his formations and selections regularly.

That is why I ask him if he is referring to club football where you have more liberty to experiment or make changes because you have a rich pool of players to chose from and also you have so many matches with which to make up in case an experiment turns out bad.

Mujtahida:
There's so much dynamism with players required to be able to play at least two positions, attackers required to track back, goal keepers required to build up plays, shifting of emphasis from the traditional playmaker aka 10 etc. I read on goal.com that Holland is stuck in the past and has now paid dearly for it by not qualifying for the WC

All these things you mentioned are what teams(clubs and countries) typically do.

Football has evolved, yes, and most coaches have evolved with it. Rohr inclusive.

Sticking to same starting 11 does not necessarily mean being out of touch of modern football.

Mujtahida:
Noted. But modern Football is pushing the boundaries ooo. In any case Rohr seems to be the conservative type

What do you term modern football?

Or are you referring to club football?

Does modern football entail frequent changes to teams?

Mujtahida:
True that. Modern Football calls for such dynamism now ooo. That's why this cliché that you never change a winning team is one which has to be re-examined cos I feel the team has to be set up in accordance with the type of opponent one has to face, the personnel at one's disposal. Rohr stuck to the cliché and it nearly cost us cos Zambia and Cameroun don't play same kind of football. Yet I am not mindful of the pitfalls of always changing things but again that's what modern Football thrives on.
Icon4s what do you say? Joebie. Humility017

Two of the rudiments of coaching:

1. You don't change a winning formation
2. You don't change a winning team.

These two principles work more often than not.

Talking about starting Simon ahead of Iwobi against Zambia, the 2 principles above held sway, especially considering the fact that Simon put up two wonderful performances against Cameroon while Iwobi's last game (against SA) fell short of expectations. You are only as good as your last game (another principle).

I remember when the topic was raised here about who to start between Simon and Iwobi, 90% ,of us said Simon cos that was a no brainer.

Team building works on consistency. Rohr did the right thing.

jotey:
England U21 Ace Tammy
Abraham Once Again
Suggest His Interest In
Playing For Nigeria

https://i0.wp.com/owngoalnigeria.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/IMG_3694.jpg

England U21 forward Tammy Abraham has
dropped another hint as regards his interest in
switching allegiance to Nigeria who are through
to the World Cup.

Two weeks ago the 19 year old denied any talks
about a switch of allegiance, but two days ago
he confirm talks are ongoing with Nigeria shortly
after scoring for England U21 in their 3-1 win
over Scotland.

Abraham who has been ever present for the
U21s of England who are top of their Euro 2019
qualifying group liked and commented on a
video posted by Alex Iwobi on Instagram.
Iwobi posted a video of the winner he scored
against Zambia, which qualified Nigeria for the
World Cup in Russia and Abraham was among
those who liked the post.

https://i1.wp.com/owngoalnigeria.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/IMG_3693.jpg

He followed it up with a post which reads ” The
Greatest “, before recently capped Nigeria
senior international Ola Aina who also played for
England at various youth levels commented by
posting “My guy #BIG17 for president!!!”.

Already Iwobi has confirmed he will have a chat
with the forward to try and convince him to
switch allegiance to Nigeria just like himself and
Aina.. He however said the final decision is for
Abraham to decide.

http://owngoalnigeria.com/2017/10/11/england-u21-ace-tammy-abraham-once-again-suggest-his-interest-in-playing-for-nigeria/

cc: joebie..I finally got it right. thanks

Hmmm...cookie interesting.

Mujtahida:
They are using the October rankings according to Wikipedia

But October ranking is not out yet na. So there could still be changes in the top 7

tbaba1234:
Top seeds

Russia
Germany
Brazil
Portugal
Argentina
Belgium
Poland
France

Who do you want in our group?

The seeding will be done after the November rankings. This list up there can still change.

Joebie:
Sadiq is sleek like Kanu.. Okro and Ogbono in a positive way.. I will put all my money on him for Qatar.

O boy don't put your money on any player o.

TheGoodJoe:
We have the quality to match them but we have chose to neglect developing our players to suit the system. That is why I am always against Conservative play because it defeats the ability to grow as a team.

We don't have the quality to match that of the Brazilians. Take that to the bank.

chrisooblog:
Leon has never been the fastest his game has always been about decisive tackling and smart positional play. Like you rightly said as defenders age they rely more on experience and reading the game expertly

How come none of you had ever said this.

You had to wait till Zambia almost exploited it.

No player should be free from criticism.

tbaba1234:
Balogun has never been fast. CBs do not have to be too fast.

He got too tight to his man and was turned. That is why centre backs give some gap so that they have a head start. He played fast guys against Cameroon and was fine.

In the second half, he adjusted and was better.

That is the positional abilities I am talking about.

Since he is not naturally a fast defender , (though I never noticed that, even for ones until the Zambia game), he should work on his positioning.

Mujtahida:
Okay. I didn't think through what you wrote cos I keep seeing Iwobi there. We are not talking about Muazzam anymore

Also Obinna Nwobodo.


Only the best we need bro.

chrisooblog:
defenders usually peak between 28-30 years which balogun falls into. God willing nigeria can still enjoy 2-4 years of good service from him. yes he made some mistakes especially in the first half against zambia but he later got back to his imperious best. i expect ekong, awaziem and any other young talented defender we discover between now and after the WC to observe and learn from him

That is world average.

Balogun at 29+ you know wasn't born in Nigeria (you know what I mean) may be at his peak.

But Other defenders like Ambrose, Echiejile, Obaobona, Omeruo, Egweke, who are even younger (officially) have long past their peak.

But I am sure you agree Balogun's lack of pace was really exposed in that game. I am not one of the Eagles physios but I can tell you it could be age related.
Defenders typically slow down as they age but that doesn't mean they declining. Experience and positional ability can make of for loss of pace. It is normal.

Mujtahida:
That movement confused the Zambians. So much fluidity was concentrated on that left back with Mikel, Iwobi, Moses to Shehu back to Moses to Shehu and to Iwobi finally bringing down the Zambian wall of Jericho.

Yes Mikel and Iwobi is best. But the headache now is between Onazi and Ndidi. Sincerely I don't know which one to pick ahead of the other.

We need Mikel in that AM role.

Why would you want to drop one of Ndidi and Onazi?

Mujtahida:
Not alterations but back ups if not competitors. What if(God forbid) Balogun or Troost is injured?

Awaziem is s there and you know Omeruo is still around. But I get tour point.

You should also consider that only 23 players make the WC. 2 positions like the GK and CF typically get 3 players each. It then means not all starting 11 players in the squad can get direct back ups. The team has utility players that can switch positions Eg Ndidi can also play CB. Shehu can also play DM and CM. Onazi can play DM, CM and RB. Mikel can play DM, CM and AM. Iwobi can play from both wings and also AM. The coaching crew will know how to sort that out

Mujtahida:
Loogan I think the NFF is aware of Dessers and have reached out to him.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nigeria
We Have Contacted Red Hot Belgian-Nigerian Forward Cyriel Dessers – NFF Confirms
A member of the Nigeria Football Federation (NFF) says the body has made contacted with Belgium born FC Utrecht forward Cyriel Dessers who is eligible to play for Nigeria.
Dessers fired NAC Breda to promotion to the top flight league in the Netherlands by scoring 25 goals, but the 22 year old jumped ship few months later to fellow Dutch side Utrecht.
He got off to a flying start with Utrecht by hitting a brace in their first league game of the season, a start which has no doubt caught the fancy of the NFF who are aiming to beat Belgium to his services.
Although he has been invited to the U20 team of Belgium, he won’t need any clearance from FIFA as he didn’t get to play in any competitive game for Belgium at any level.
”We are aware of him and he has been contacted already. The coach knows he is available if he wants him. So the decision on his inclusion in the team or not now rest squarely on the shoulders of the coach Gernot Rohr “, a member of the NFF told Owngoalnigeria.com in Kano.

”He is a good striker and that is one area the coach said he is looking for options. So let’s see if he will get a call up by the coach because he is among one of the strikers we have right now, who isn’t doing badly”.
Osas Mahawi
Share this:
August 20, 2017 0


Since he would not be needing any FIFA clearance (we need to still confirm this very well) then we should invite him against Algeria. Safarigirl what do you think? Hahaha.

Mujtahida:
Yes you never said he should be dropped. We only just noticed something. Apart from Echiejile in that defence all of them are newbies as in to the big game. But that Shehu ehn na real oruku, he don done. We have some fine German born guys who can be brought in to shore up our defence.

Ekong and Shehu have the Olympics experience plus the WC qualifiers. They are good to go.

On the German born guys, the defense is not a department you effect so many alterations. I will personally welcome any player for trial in the attack.

Echijile may not be leaving up to expectations but caution should be taken for us not run from frying pan to fire.

Kog45:
I know his age,what am trying to point out is that d same Balogun had an excellent games against Algeria, Cameroon but his performance against Zambia has nothing to do with age,that's my point.

Now, the difference is in the pace. He played against younger and quicker players and that lapse showed.

Thank God he was able to get it right in the second half meaning he can quickly adjust which is good news for us.

But his build up play remained slow even in that second half.

Mujtahida:
But you've often talked about not having young guys in the defence. You permit it in the attack but in the defence you prefer seasoned guys.

There is always a threshold for optimum performance.

If you recall in one of our earlier discussions where I gave the average age from which different Nigerian players start declining. I gave that of defenders as 26/27 and went further to name most of our more recent defenders comparing their performances between when they were 21-23 and 26-28.

Yes I do not tolerate Green horns in the Super Eagles defense. Green horns I mean teenagers that have not played football at professional level or are just at the first season. Or have played like 2 seasons in less competitive leagues.

But note that I did not say Balogun should be dropped. He should depend more now on his positioning than speed. That is how experienced defenders that no longer have pace cope.

Balogun would be 30 by next year. Trust me he cannot be as quick as he was 3 or 4 years back.

Mujtahida:
That's just it. So that Mikel steps back and we have a more vibrant AM and Iwobi would be deadly from there.

Did you notice Mikel and Iwobi combo that led to that goal.

You noticed also that Iwobi and Mikel switched opposition at certain point.

That is a killer combo.

Let Mikel play AM and Iwobi play from the wings and switching positions with Mikel and at other times with Moses. We saw that work against Zambia (ie Mikel and Iwobi switching positions).

Let's leave the Ndidi-Onazi combo the way it is for now.

Kog45:
Balogun is ageing? just coz of Zambia match.

This is a guy that had wonderful outings against Algeria, Cameroon in both legs even got nominated as d best CB in d last Africa XI world cup qualifying matches.

Dude is 29 and would be 30 during the WC. He should depend more on positional ability more than speed now.

TheGoodJoe:
We are talking of Nigeria. Not Togo. We have the right mix of players, maybe even an overload of players to play a more offensive pattern. I even feel the conservative pattern hinders our best mix of players to excel.

At least I still made reference to Nigeria in that post.

You cannot be playing against teams like Brazil, Germany, France, Spain etc and come all out offensive. You'll get punished.

We do not have the equality to match there's so we have to remain compact and avoid being over-run and then hit them on the break. That is the way to play such teams.

TheGoodJoe:
Keep in mind when Agu got his role in the script right, Balogun excelled. Just like I pointed out during the crucifixion of Awaziem that poor cover from the full backs and defensive midfielders can make a good defender seem poor.

I am glad that Rohr notices it too and I agree that Mikel Agu is learning the role. The second half showed it.

I think that is why I did not even notice Balogun being poor in that first half. I was watching the positioning of the midfielders.

I wish. I really wish Onazi does it. He would have been as big as Ngolo Kante or even bigger. But, he is interested in the forward play too much. Just as the position he was when he got injured.

Go back and watch that first half. It did not completely have to do with Agu. His one on one positioning with the Zambian strikers was poor and his build up play was also sluggish even in the second half.

tbaba1234:
I also think Balogun was very nervous in the game. He even cried after.. I think that nervousness affected him in the first half especially.

Ekong has always had that passing problem. It has gotten much better now sef. I think he sometimes panics under pressure.

Yeah. Panic pressures.

We need these guys to face big oppositions in friendlies.

Mujtahida:
I posted before how a Zambian with one deft touch put Echiejile behind him. I was wrong. It was Balogun and he couldn't catch up with the guy. But this emphasises why we need a very good left back cos where that guy beat Balogun was where Echiejile was supposed to be. Since he lacks pace then the left back has to be excellent. So that Balogun will be rarely drawn out. He's quite good with making interceptions and anticipating danger. Notice we ain't saying the same thing to Ekong(except his pssses) and the reason is because Abdullahi is posting peak performances. Echiejile did good but at the World Cup we want and should have the best.

Let dem Odegbami talk to Ojokojo to release that his son Jordan Torunarigha.

In modern day football, Full backs over-lap a lot. So it is common sight seeing CBs covering for one LB or RB that overlapped out of position and could not recover quickly enough.

I think it is age related. Balogun is ageing.

tbaba1234:
Weaknesses in our team

Alternatives to the Oyibo Wall..
A new left back
Limited Striking Options

Potential Solutions

I. Awaziem is 3rd choice but he is very green. Omeruo can be decent on his day but does not always inspire confidence. I think both players can do the job but i 'd like to see us chase Felix Udoukhai. That boy has been outstanding in the bundesliga, also a green horn but it is only a matter of time before Germany come calling. He is that good.

2. Elderson has sometimes been unfairly targeted but it is obvious that the Zambian team saw his wing as the weak point. He needs to be replaced. Ola Aina can certainly do a great job there. No one is displacing Shehu at RB, he has been world class. Needs to move out of cyprus.


3. Ighalo can blow hot and cold. Dessers is an exciting option to me. He has declared for Nigeria so why not? If Tammy is willing, he should also be invited.

Good points.

Let me just touch on the onyibo wall. The Zambians have really helped us by exposing that weakness.

They are still our best CB pairing. I don't think we have alternatives yet, as Awaziem is not ready and Omeruo's career has seen it's better days.

The two weaknesses: Balogun is a slow player and Ekong is not much of a good ball passer. Balogun's case can be solved by excellent positioning. Uche Okechukwu and Yobo had that issue but made up for it with positioning. It is an early warning signal to us. Age is no longer on Balogun's side.

On Ekong's occasional wrong passes, such happens mostly due to two reasons: 1. Over confidence. 2. Lack of confidence. The team's psychologist needs to help us out here. Cos we know Ekong is better than those errors.

TheGoodJoe:
Most teams that excel at the World Cup are more offensive teams. We have played offensive systems under Rohr and did well too. Playing offensively for the Super Eagles can not equate to experiment.

Those teams you make reference to that excel at world cup are more offensive because they have the quality to be more offensive.

Being offensive or defensive depends a great deal on the nature of the opposition. IE your quality vs the quality of your opponent

Let Togo go and play Brazil and you expect Togo to play offensive football.

I am even going far sef. If Nigeria is to play Brazil expect us to play offensive football.

Mujtahida:
I saw something in Balogun that made me shiver a bit. I feel we need one or two piece in that defence (not including the GK) one or two in the midfield and one in the attack.

Yeah, Balogun, particularly in that first half.

Pace is his challenge. Rohr needs to work on that.
It means he has to work on his positioning to compensate of that lack of pace. Uche Okechukwu was not the quickest of defenders but he made up for it with his excellent positional abilities. Same goes for Martesacker of Arsenal.

Our midfield remains our major strength. Rohr just made a wrong choice of introducing Agu instead of Etebo. He have depth in that midfield. Though introduction of quality new blood will further boost that department.