benalvino:

Biased... you can show me where Jesus is called an angel but you want me to show you where angels are called sons of Jesus... lol

Oboy no be malachi dey your front??....

No take people play o....

Show us your own??.....

Show us just a synonym of son for the rest angels in relation to Jesus.......

benalvino:

look he created them. case close. if you want specifics then keep quiet cause you cant be specific that Jesus is an angel... no verse... you will just follow anything they tell you... like the Generation teaching that is changing every year.

He created them by whose command and with whose power??.....

Need I remind you that the rest angels are fellows,contemporaries of Jesus??......they are all sons of God....

They are all messengers of God......

benalvino:

I asked you alot you never answered... and i have to repaste this one. above this post

You want me to answer all your questions......

Would it make any difference to a polytheist like you??......

benalvino: so Jesus is an angel or God's wisdom? tell me is it all of the above? your answer is YES... which was with him from the beginning?
indeed all this verses you provided shows that Jesus was with the father... and he did all creation through the son... so in other words... without the wisdom of God nothing was made and without the Word nothing was made... and the whole universe consist because of his wisdom(Jesus) this clearly is telling that Jesus is God and not an angel or man like you believe... but he is the wisdom of God... thats why no one was with God when he created everything...

Once again the bolded is wrong....Jesus is not Gods intrinsic inherent wisdom....

The wisdom in proverbs was created,begotten,formed,born....

These are words you ran away from......

benalvino:
this doesnt answer the question when the bible says One God created us all... By your beliefs one God and angel created us all... whether you use vendor talk or not... the number of creators are still 2... try and answer it. just try. Make sure the bible doesnt contradict it self saying an angel was beside the father during creation or God made the world through an angel only for the bible to still say no one was with the God that him alone created everything... So its up to you to try again because your vendor talk still sum up to 2 and not one.

Like your cited verse proves that Jesus was there... I agree but am saying that Jesus was there are God's eternal wisdom and the bible teaches that... it says No one was there with him... you say someone was there and that some one is ANGEL which means 2 people take part... so God cant say he did it all by him self and no one was there... EXCEPT God's wisdom was there which is God him self... Like the Word is God.... Am making sure you answer this questions so i present them in different way

And you are still asking the same childish questions and thinking like a baby....this is why I stopped answering you......

I could remember when I asked this simple question.....

Who alone forgives sins??.....

And I also believe the saviour issue explains this issue too........

the Father remains the one creator recognized because it is from him all things(Jesus inclusive) came into existence.....

So the son being by the Fathers side being a vendor does negate the fact that the Father is the one creator......

benalvino:

Isaiah 45:12
I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
Isaiah 42:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Jeremiah 10:12 But God made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding.
job 8:9
Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
Isaiah 48:13
My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they all stand up together.

This does not contradict anything....the Father remains the one creator......he is the absolute source of everybody and everything......

benalvino:

And look your vendor talk has not yet explained this... I want to know when God use angel to create the world... and i want to know why you think His wisdom is not God... because if so that means the bible is lying that God alone created the heaven and earth... John 1:1 says the word is God...
here is Your biggest problem... when you try to say the Word or wisdom was created then the contradiction mounts...

Is Jesus a messenger of God??.....answer this and solve your messenger issue......

No contradiction....

And the word is which God........??...

The Father who created the word(Jesus)??....

Proverbs solves your case but to just handle that truth is what is killing you.....

And I can't remember when last u asked a question I refused to answer.....it is you who refused the answers given.....except you want me to use a knife to divide your head and fix the answers inside......

benalvino:

Meh

they came into being through him...

That's all??.....please show me where it is said the rest angels are sons of Jesus.....

benalvino:

you dont have to concentrate on son... he is referred to as the son of God.... only begotten.... every other thing are sons of God... not begotten

I just don't know what to call you and your ignorance......

Why shouldn't I concentrate on the word SON??.......

How does begotten / unbegotten negate the fact that Jesus and all the rest angels are all sons of God??....

Are the rest angels daughters of God??.....

benalvino:

fact has been made... am not ready to run through circles with you... my next post is a question you refuse to answer...

You talk about circles meanwhile you create the circle and run in it....

Weren't you the one who defined who an angel is with your hands??.....

Itsfacts: Lololololol I feel sorry for bernimoore alias monkey today. Ben has finished you sansan plenty for your garri

Oboy how are you doing with the other thread u ran away from??....

As for you to get your time mean say person need to go stay for asylum....

benalvino:

But they are all sons of God? yes...
but Jesus is begotten and they are not... in fact they are all sons of Jesus...
Jesus is not the first... he is the Only son of God... Only begotten :p

Lol....please show us where it is said the other angels are sons of Jesus....

Please a scripture please.....

If you agree that Jesus and all the other angels are all sons of God but Jesus the begotten and firstborn son,does that negate the fact that Jesus is a son??...

As u answer apply it to the word ANGEL....

benalvino:

it is clear he sent his first born... again you forgot to add only begotten... they are not begotten... they are sons of Jesus he created them.

I didn't forget to add begotten.....my concentration is on the word SON....

And I repeat the angels are not sons of Jesus...if they are show us....

Waiting!!!.....

benalvino:

see as you they flop like the magazine....

only you say he didnt send any son then you contradict your self again saying he sent his first born... any son includes first born. :p

Now it is because of your poor understanding that is why you are having this problem....

What does it mean when I say he didn't just send any son??....it means he chose the best and first amongst his sons.......NO??...

This is why I say misunderstanding what u read in the WT is what has landed you in your empty rants....

benalvino:

Meh... Jesus is not and never an angel. show me one verse that says Jesus is an angel.... there are many verse that calls Him God... might almight... first and last... alpha and omega... Show me one verse that calls him angel.

And you ask the same daft question..by your own definition of angel from the root hebrew and greek words you called Jesus an angel.....NO??....

You debunked yourself and you're here asking the same lame question.....

benalvino:

again... No one is doing nothing... your bernimoore asked for it i should him... look even your book says God did not send angel... you are here speaking english. lol I no get time to bile i no even care. I don tell you several times... the fact is... i showed him that they are no sure...

The wathctower said God did not just send some angel......you misunderstood the statement,never wanted to hear the explanation of it but went ahead to say the WT contradicted itself.....

You see yourself.....

benalvino:

Jesus = only begotten son
Angels = sons of god including Michael

But they are all sons of God abi??....

But Jesus is first amongst all sons of God.....NO??....

benalvino:

He didnot send any of his sons(angel)
He sent only his begotten son.
angels are not among... Only the Nobel says.

From the above it is clear God didn't just send any son,but his firstborn son...

Please apply it to the angels.....

God sent his chief angel,messenger....NO??...

benalvino:

Nature of Jesus is God...
Nature of angel is servants and ministers
Humans are servants too but they are not angels they are humans...

Phil 2:6
Jesus was in the nature of God(not angel) then he took the form of a servant(not Michael cause Michael is already a servant) now he did not become spirit like the angels... He became human... Jesus was never an angel.

Jesus is and was an angel/meSsenger of God.....


You can dance agaba for all you care......

And for your info Jesus is Gods servant......

.....

benalvino:


No bile you dont like the truth or when someone expose the organization... They didn't say he sent an angel or Michael... They said the only begotten son. They make mistake ok let me put it that way

All I see is one way bile......

And would you like to go on a tour through the scriptures that Jesus is the arch angel??.....

Uh??......

And for your info you have exposed nothing but your stark ignorance......

BERNIMOORE: ijawkid

kindly tell benalvino to paste page i4 of that journal it seems he is hiding something that will expose him, he is not confident enough to paste it, yet he had the library

He doesn't need to post it........

He just mis-understood the statements to be contradictory...

My problem is why would he not understand something but paste it and term it a LIE...

That's what I can't understand about benalvino....

benalvino: inspector general of police = police...

sodier =/= police...

inspector general + 1 ordinary police = some police

i did not send some police(including inspector general) but i sent a soldier... this has excluded anything called police...

no single police was sent instead a soldier was sent

Please apply this to firstborn.......

Is Jesus just some son(less ranked amongst Gods sons) or the firstborn son??......

I want you to get the meaning of the quote you have mis-applied to suit your bile for the JW's....

The inspector general of police is not just some police.......


The. some used in that excerpt portends importance,and greatness.....

Are the rest police men in nigeria as important and highly positioned as the inspector general of police??........

ijawkid: Ok benalvino....

Answer this...

Is the firstborn son some son??....

Please take note of the clause......

Ben I'm waiting for your answer on this.....

benalvino:
lmao... let me think

Think o.......

Is he??.....

I want you to Read that statement in the watchtower you quoted very well and see that there is no contradiction whatso ever......

Is the inspector general of POLICE some POLICE??...

benalvino:

archangel = angel your teaching...

only begotten son of God =/= angel

watchtower said he did not send some angel...
what did not say is that he did not send some angel but he sent the arch angel...

what they said is he sent his only Begotten son. which kind excuse you wan apply here?

Is the arch angel part of the some angel??.....

I have always told you not to misunderstand statements just for d sake of maligning people.....

Ok benalvino....

Answer this...

Is the firstborn son some son??....

Please take note of the clause......

benalvino:

tell bernimoore his page is ready lol

Please answer my question......

In the other watchtower edition of 1991 you quoted that sounded to you like a contradiciton,didn't you see the claus arch??......


Is the arch angel some angel??....

Answer please.....

@benalvino.......

Is the arch angel some angel??


Answer please........

benalvino:
I worship the father through Jesus... i pray through Jesus... can jesus be worshipped yes...
you are trying to go direct to the father. lol it doesnt work that way.

hebrew 1:5
For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?

Never an angel.

Interesting......

You worship the Father through Jesus.?...meaning Jesus is the appointed vendor through which your worship gets to the Father who is the one undisputed GOD.....

Meaning you agree with the fact that the Father alone is the one God....

.....

Case closed........

benalvino:
Which message you know Jesus go when he was in heaven?
am not ready for this Baseless talk... if Jesus is angel for you let it be for you
one of your ways of belittle Jesus... i can conclude you dont know Jesus

Lmao........

I am not be-littling Jesus.......you are the one be-littling the Father......

I just told what Jesus is to the Father.......

Them no be mate......

I can also conclude you don't know Jesus....

Because if you knew him you would join hands with him to worship and recognize the ONE GOD who is THE FATHER alone....

Thank you.....

benalvino:
SMH... Was Jesus spirit on earth if i may ask you? you are running around like cockroach that inhales baygon...

Lmao.......was Jesus not a spirit in heaven before he descended??.........the prophecy says an angel(messenger) was to come....

benalvino:

God is asking you in hebrew... which angel did i ever say today you are my son and i shall be your father... and you say it did not mean anything... if it came out from those magazine it would have meant the whole world to you abi? cause the bible is not the final authority abi?

And I ask again how does that verse negate the fact that Jesus is Gods messenger(angel)??.......

Isn't that scripture telling you that Jesus is the unique messenger of God??.......

There in hebrews it is well shown that Jesus had contemporaries before he was exalted...

benalvino:

now you are trying to force Jesus to be angel... hahahahaha desperation.

[size=28pt]IS JESUS FALSE GOD[/size]

You are the one forcing Jesus not to be an angel of God.......

......

Is Jesus and all of us bad??......

benalvino:

Instead of you to answer the question... you are talking parables... So prophet Elijah is an angel Like Gabriel? or you are applying one of the meaning of angels...
by your Logic we can conclude Jesus is not the messenger of God since he is not an angel... and prophet Elijah since they are not an angel too but humans?

Jesus is the messenger of God....and I guess you know strictly what spirit messengers of God are called.......

Please check up the hebrew word that was used to describe Jesus in malachi......ANGLEOS bro.....angel...........

benalvino:

hebrew 1:5
For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?

How does this scripture negate the fact that Jesus is Gods messenger(angel)??.....

How??....

benalvino:

instead of you to answer the Question you are talking parable... Is jesus false God?

Is Jesus and all good people today bad since only God is good??........

.....

benalvino:

assumption like God dispose Jesus body... vaporize him body? Or God created an angel? lol. I answer your question... answer mine...

Like the way a mango seed suddenly disappears for a big tree to form.......

I have given you the same analogy paul used when describing the ressurection of those who would live as spirits in heaven......

And ofcourse God created all angels(messengers)......

If Jesus isn't a messenger of God please feel free to correct me...

......

And I am still waiting for that almighty scripture that says the one God is the Father ,son and holy spirit....

Na so the scripture hard to find for bible??....

benalvino:
Ok.. you are trying to Dodge this question again...

but let me just make a quick walk through and then you tell me if Jesus is a false God...

Only Good is Good... Jesus is say Only God is Good... father, son and holy spirit... he is not taking that for him self alone...

Sometimes Jesus speaks in parable...

You know the bolded is a lie and not in the scriptures.....please don't make assumptions for Jesus....

We all know who Jesus calls the one GOD...

Don't you know??...

Don't act like a fraud bro...

......

Is Jesus,abraham,all the holy angels, etc bad since God is the only one that is good??....

Itsfacts: ^^ see this ijawmonkey I say the result is the son is the only saviour as recorded in the bible and the father is the only savior as recorded and the bible again said one savior is = Jesus. What is the vendor talk? Father and son and holyspirit always work together.

Lol........

And as I have shown your daft brain from scriptures,Jesus could only become a savior because he was appointed and exalted to be,not because he has always been.......

Itsfacts:
If you dont like Jesus being God and our saviour go change the bible you be mumu boy. Has God do something very important without Jesus and the holy spirit? Like my man talk they work in harmony.

Has Jesus done anything important without us here on earth??.......

Remember the more you try to equate Jesus with the Father,I drag Jesus to our level.......

What your brain doesn't get is that the Father sends every body while he himself cannot be sent...he remains the all and all who carries out his biddings through is servants and vendors of which Jesus is part of.......

Itsfacts:

when did Jesus need saving? Kindly browse through your fraudulent bible and show me

.....

Like I said the NWT would not be opened by me on this thread.....

See this scripture below..

Hebrews 5:7

New International Version
(©2011)
During the days of Jesus' life on
earth, he offered up prayers and
petitions with fervent cries and
tears to the one who could save
him from death, and he was heard
because of his reverent
submission.


Did Jesus need and depend on a saviour or not??...

benalvino:

From watchtower 2003... they talk about truth and lie... let me show you

this there teaching says one is true the other is false... But when I ask any JW... even people who wrote this if Jesus is a false God they will say no... the True one is already the God... so again is [size=38pt]Jesus false god?[/size]

.........

I asked you a question sometime ago which I can't remember if you gave a firm retort....


When Jesus confirmed only God is good.....

Did he mean every other person who have practiced goodness through out history including himself(Jesus) is/was bad??........


And I would ask you:::....are the good angels in heaven false God(s)??....

Itsfacts: ^^ this guy has lust his senses. Could you tell your government buddies to release your brain? They are over washing it. this guy just they talk shit here. Why the father they send? Why him no do am by him self. If Jesus na take those koboko carry the cross for sin how e take matter say him no be savior cause papa send am. The bible demostrates only God is the saviour then it also says only Jesus is the savior. Why bible no talk say only EHUD be savior too? If bible say only God be saviour then only Jesus be saviour e no mean say Jesus na God?

Did it occur to you that the Father is the saviour of Jesus??.........

I ask your daft brain now.....

Could Jesus have been the saviour of the world if he was not sent or aPpointed to be??........

Could he??........

I want you guys to realize that the Father remains the one and only saviour because he initiates the plan for salvation and executes them via his vendors who are also called saviour(s)..........

If Jesus himself needed a saviour what the hell are we talking about...

frosbel:

this is how warped your theology is, of course GOD is the saviour, but does not the saviour choose how he will save ?

And in this case , did he not choose his only Son, does it not therefore imply that both God and Jesus are saviours but it is GOD who initiated our salvation through his Son Jesus Christ.

Why must you and co keep holding onto Pagan tradition that turns logic on it's head by calling Dad his Son and Son his Dad, is this not babel and confusion.

Romans 5:8
New International Version (NIV)
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

They have become daft to the core.......

Even after seeing that Jesus became saviour by virtue of the fact that he was sent as and exalted as one by the Father who himself is the saviour of Jesus......

benalvino:

God is a nature... if Jesus is a god... are you saying he is a false God?

And his foolish questions pop out again.......

Are the angels who are God(s) false Gods??......

The question u should ask your stiff head is if Jesus is the one GOD...

Is he??.....

If Yes,open a scripture that calls him that.....

If there isn't a scripture then forever close your mouth and stop asking this rubbish questions......

benalvino:

The question for you to answer is up there... this verse didnt change anything at the end all 3 were involved in the creation at the end all 3 are involved in redemption... take out one and see what happens...

Shut up.........

This verse up there changes everything...it says the only one God is the Father alone.....

I am still waiting for that verse that says the one God is the Father,son and holy spirit...

benalvino:

again i have set up questions for you that you run away from... All you do is to call me names because i dont agree with your points... again the names doesn't make your point facts.

Your questions are fulll of ignorance and one and shows one who is stiff necked....

benalvino:

is there one scripture that says Jesus is an angel(michael) or one that say he materialized with human body

Where you not shown where Jesus was called angleos some threads ago..??.....

And if I remember well you gave up the Jesus body discussion on one thread like that...

You want us to go back to it??......

I ready ooo!!!!!.......

Its up to you to choose if Jesus materialized and de-materialized.....one certain thing is Jesus isn't flesh in heaven....

benalvino:

... or one that says God dispose his body... or one that says he raised as michael the archangel? the post you replied clearly Shows the 3 acting in harmony from the beginning to the end... now I want you to answer the questions

Please show us just a verse that says the one God to us is the Father ,son and holy spirit....isn't this your belief supposed to be explicit in the scriptures??....

Do we have to search like mad people to find this doctrine of yours??....

Please just a scripture....

I have 1 corinthians 8:6....please find a scripture that destroys or counters 1 corinthians 8:6 by saying otherwise that the one God is not the Father alone....

Please I'm waiting....

And as regards body.....please try visualizing where the body of a mango seed you planted goes to after it grows into a tree.....

benalvino:

We have Gone pass this...
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Genesis 1:1-2 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

The Hebrew word for “Spirit” is often translated as “wind” or “breath” in the Old Testament. The same word is found in Psalm 33:6, where we again catch a glimpse of the Spirit’s work in creation: “By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and all the host of them by the breath [Spirit] of His mouth.”

The next verse of this psalm continues, “He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap; He lays up the deep in storehouses” (Psalm 33:7). Certainly, this should remind us of how “the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters” in Genesis 1:2.

If we look closer at the word “hovering,” we find that it conveys the idea of a bird sitting in a nest, hovering and brooding over her eggs, caring for the new lives. The same word is used to describe how “an eagle stirs up its nest, [and] hovers over its young” in Deuteronomy 32:11.

What a beautiful picture of God preparing to bring life into the world through His Spirit! God designed all of creation for life—our life. “By His Spirit [God] adorned the heavens” (Job 26:13), and they were designed with us in mind:
For thus says the Lord, who created the heavens . . . who formed the earth and made it . . . he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited! (Isaiah 45:18, ESV, emphasis added).

On this fascinating topic, we should also note that Scripture describes a similar “hovering” of the Holy Spirit in one of the greatest miracles of all time—the miraculous conception of Jesus Christ: “And the angel answered and said to [Mary], ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you’” (Luke 1:35).

Just as God worked through Jesus and the Holy Spirit to bring life into the dark, formless world at Creation, so also He now offers eternal life to any who repent and believe through the Spirit in the name of Jesus Christ (John 3:5, 6:63).

big idea: all three persons of the Trinity were involved in Creation—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Same Goes for redemption... They have always worked in harmony...

You are trying too hard now you are beginning to look silly by your own effort.

You are the silly person here.....

See paul again forgetting about the holy spirit straight forward...

1 corinthians 8:6

New International Version
(©2011)
yet for us there is but one God,
the Father, from whom all things
came and for whom we live; and
there is but one Lord, Jesus
Christ, through whom all things
came and through whom we live.


1....First of God the Father is recognized as the one God from whom(source) all things including Jesus came from......

2...Jesus is recognized as the one appointed Lord through(vendor) whom creation took place...

3...The holy spirit was forgotten as a person in this most important verse that should prove the trinity........maybe you might suggest the holy spirit was with paul when he penned down this verse and so told paul not to add his name to the list....

Please try and help paul to fix in the holy spirit...I mean this scripture is the most potent of scriptures that shows who the one God is and what happend in the beginning and Jesus' role...

And please like I have asked from time immomorial...is there just one scripture that is so clear like 1 corinthians 8:6 that says the but to us there is but one God the Father,son and holy spirit??.....

benalvino:

Now y'all can see that he acts like am lying yet again deny Jesus of being our only savior and here is how... Note that this is the only respond i will give concerning this... this thread is not for our 2 dog and cat fight ...

Has Jesus always been a saviour not until he was sent??....

Was Jesus your saviour before he was exalted as one and also sent by the one undisputed saviour the Father??..

And as you can see the clear verses I put you see Jesus was sent as and to be saviour....

benalvino:

^^^ bible says Jesus is the Only savior it says God is the only savior... which backs up the post you replied to...

Jesus is the only appointed saviour through which the world can be reconciled to the Father...

There is not another appointed saviour for that job.....

Please take note of these words...

Exalted
Appointed
Sent

I know your comprehension skills is low,but please try to understand...the Father does not need anyone to appoint him,exalt him, or send him before he becomes a saviour....

Do you now understand what I mean and what the scriptures mean when it says the Father remains the one saviour??.....

benalvino:

^^ as y'all can see... police and firemen save people today... are we Going to say they are saviors like Jesus?

You should be addressed as a fool,but I would reserve that when your foolishness has become so much to bear....

And who ever said police and fire fighters are saviours like Jesus??....they are not saviours like Jesus,but that does not negate the fact that they are saviours none the less....the same way the police and fire fighters are not saviours like Jesus,so is Jesus not saviour like the Father...I think this analogy should work better for your brain..

It seems you need to check up the meaning of the word saviour...

benalvino:

Now because EHUD save some people those people Died... without Jesus paying the ransom and destroying death and sin.. were they saved? 3 saviors? Even if you say the father send them... EHUD is just like Jesus savior of mankind? I know Jesus is Unique because he payed the price for sin... those people EHUD saved were not saved from death yet you get the point?
from true2god he asked

But ehud was a svaiour wasn't he??...

And he was saviour and was a saviour by virtue of the fact that he was sent to be a saviour...NO??...

Isn't Jesus the saviour of the world by virtue of the fact that he was sent,appointed and exalted to be??.....

Jesus' saviour role is unique,but does not negate the fact that he was sent to be...


Think bro...think....

benalvino:

^^^ this shows he doesnt consider jesus to be the only savior going against the bible... the thinks EHUD is also a savior in same manner of Jesus...

You don see how your mumu dey spark??...

In your bid to go trinity crazy you still miss the main point....

Both ehud,joshua,moses and Jesus were all sent to be saviour(s)...

That is why I have been asking you:::...was Jesus not sent by the Father just as those saviors of old were sent??.....

I make my points from the Fathers perspective who does the sending of his vendors to save his people,the world....

It should come to your notice that the Father is the saviour of Jesus...

Wrong??...

Jesus himself needs/needed a saviour and that was the Father....

benalvino:

the first created being that sinned was satan an angel...(God gave us free will so we can express Genuine Love for him... if he didnt do that they its forced love which is not love)
adam was the first man to sin... and you can see the created are the problems... but spirits(angels) and Humans sin...
Now since angels and man sin... they are part of the problem(created) again creature cannot solve the problem of sin since they are part of it...
So through man(creature) through Jesus(creator) sin was taking away.


if you guys goto this page you will see the statements he made...
https://www.nairaland.com/1318212/firstborn-does-it-mean-first/13

Your reasoning does not agree with the scriptures...all you did was rant from your own initiative...

And may I start by telling you that Jesus,adam and all the angels were created perfect....it is this freewill that made satan choose his path,and also adam....but Jesus,angel gabriel and the other faithfull angels who were created perfect have chosen to be loyal to God....so for your information not all messengers or angels of God sinned....so not all angels are part of the problem...

God saw it fit to send his firstborn son to come as a man to balance the scale....all that was needed to rectify the effect of adam was another perfect man not God himself....

Your theory of the fact that it must be God himself who should come and die to save mankind is foreign to the scriptures...

And when I talk of God I mean the one God the Father...

This is why I have been quoting 1 john 4:14

New Living Translation (©2007)
Furthermore, we have seen with
our own eyes and now testify that
the Father sent his Son to be the
Savior of the world.

benalvino: God is the only one who can save sinners. In other words, in order for a person to interrupt the power of sin in their life, and achieve salvation from Christ, God would have to be the active agent. the main point was that God and God alone would have to be responsible for this change. No created being could cause salvation for another creature. “if Christ is not God, he is part of the problem, not its solution.”
We underscored the teaching of the Bible is that Jesus is the savior of the world. Frosbel, deep-sight, ijawkid Oga anony “firmly committed to the idea that Christ was the savior of humanity.” well ijawkid doesnt really believe this... Yet as discussed above, the fact that only God could be the savior. Therefore, the tension in the ijawkid and other anti-trinitarians view is well defined. If Christ is the savior, then in order for Christ to save creatures, he cannot be a created being himself; for only God can save sinners. In other words, anti-trinitarians has left their selves with only two options: either accept that Jesus is God and responsible for saving the world, or admit that Jesus cannot redeem humanity. Thus, anti-trinitarians’ views that Jesus is created is at best inconsistent and at worse incoherent or illogical.

I am only replying this post simply because once again you have maligned my person by making statements I have never made......

The bolded is a belief I do not uphold...I think the inability for you to think past the trinity gibberish or maybe just refering to me after you have been taught clear truths is what is making you lay false claims on me...

You said for d fact Jesus is the saviour of the world then means he must be the same or equal with the Father who claimed to be the only saviour...

Then I said Jesus being the saviour of the world does not negate the fact that the Father remains the one saviour and I gave reasons from the scriptures which even a 2 year old would understand,but as it stands grown azz adults find it hard to understand....

I quote these scriptures...

1 john 4:14

New International Version
(©2011)
And we have seen and testify that
the Father has sent his Son to be
the Savior of the world.

Acts 5:31

English Standard Version
(©2001)
God exalted him at his right hand
as Leader and Savior, to give
repentance to Israel and
forgiveness of sins.



1...Jesus is the saviour of the world which I agree(but you have lied and slandered that I don't ),but not the one SAVIOUR who sent him to act in that role...

2..The Father remains the ONE undisputed SAVIOUR who worked/works out salvation for his people by sending his son(vendor) to be saviour...

I had given exact parallels of individuals who were sent as or to be saviours,but never negated the Father from being the one saviour who does the sending....


So your thought that if Jesus is not God then he can't save us is a white washed LIE!!!....Jesus is Gods perfect firstborn son and indeed was qualified to act in that role...

It was through a perfect man(a created being) that sin entered into the world,and another perfect son of God(who was also created) was appointed to wrong that right...your theory of saviour-ship is out of point...it was through a created man/son sin entered into the world and it is also through a created man/son of God that sin was to be forgiven....scale balanced...



It Is clear the Father sent Jesus...and as we know Jesus isn't the one God the Father who sent him and so Jesus is not the one God or part of him....

And so your theory collapses....


And next time don't lie against my person..it doesn't help you make your point..........