₦airaland Forum

Tayo-D:
Okay you win. I admit I used the wrong terminology (even though I am still trying to figure out if "eat deeper into" is a technical economic terminology). I don tire going around in circles.

The idiot cant even get his own terminology or phrase straight on a subject he raised.

I hope he has read the book I suggested to him, then come back and tell me that sunni and shite is a religion, and in no way an ethnic group.

Ignorant loud idiot that he is.

Tayo-D:
Your statement is the same as saying Nigeria's main tribal groups are Christians, Moslems and Yorubas. Your statement is just as stupid!

The statement Ethnoreligion is in no way comparable to your analogy above. I knew you don't understand what ethnoreligion means.

Tayo-D instead of trying to force your way through in the dark why don't you get a good book, something particular about Sunnis and Shites, when you've done that come back to argue your case.

But with that kind of analogy you've given above, I would be wasting my time arguing with you, since you lack the fundamentals.

Let me recommend a book for you: Esposito, John L., ed. Oxford History of Islam. Oxford University Press, 2000.

Seriously Tayo-D your not smart, you know nothing, the kind of analogy you gave above is just to say the least absurd. Am sorry but I would stop here. You cant even tell me why, what I said is not right based on facts - but your own assumed analogy of history.

I Tire. 

I give up on you, trying to teach you is like trying to fatten a greyhound.

@Tayo-D

Ikomi:
I have pointed it to you time without number that what you talk about is an Ethnoreligious group.

I repeat, am starting to sound like a broken record.

Let me teach you not only Islam and the ME, but also how to argue constructively.

Tayo-D when I say all that you talk about is an ethnoreligious group it means that it is a tribe that developed into a religious group, or even well said a tribe that is at the same time a religious group.

Then that gives me the right to say its an ethnic group(not forgeting history), now if you so think it should only be a religious group and not an ethnic group then you should proof why it is not and I would tell you why and how it came to be (even after I have shown you those maps above, which is no object of my own making), I would go that extra mile. That is how to argue constructively. 

Tayo-D:
It is unthinkable that an expert on the order of an Ayatollah like you can make so many glaring errors in one single paragraph.  Over to you, and show us some facts.

Tell me where I claimed to be an expert on this issues, except for the high ranking name which you gave to me due to your own insecurity.

Tayo-D:
But for now, we will concentrate only on the tribe called "Shiate" according to Ayatollah Ikomi.  To think he does not even know how to spell it right.

Your starting to sound like a grumpy, misrable not to say frustrated, ignorant old man.   

4 Play:
So this rancid slowpoke called Ikomi is now masquerading as an expert on Islam? Don't tell me he thinks the Sunni/Shia divide is an ethnic divide?

Who are you? All I ask is constructive argument based on facts, all that thing you wrote up there makes no sence to me. Come up with facts.

Can you? Lets see

Tayo-D:
@Ikomi,
Please explain to me what our discussions has done for me. One thing I know it has not done is to enlightene me. I rememebr my first discussion with you was to condemn your dismissing someone else's input on a topic. I went on to show that you have little understanding of the issues you implied you are a master of. Or how do we explain someone who calls himslef an expert on ME affairs and yet do not understand that a Shiite is not a member of an ethnic tribe but a believer and meber is a particular sect of Islam? An expert you are indeed. Which explains my alling you an Ayatollah, tongue-in-cheek.

I can see your just not Ignorant your also ungrateful, I have pointed it to you time without number that what you talk about is an Ethnoreligious group.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/10/distribution-ethnic-groups-iraq-0

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Iraq_ethno_2003.jpg

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/iraq_ethnoreligious_1992.jpg

Am so happy you fancy Jesoul, you desperately need a woman that can teach you some sence.

Negro_Ntns:
Ikomi,

to come to his defense, I believe no2 is addressing all the subjects from an idealist standpoint. As you know, our perspective of the world around us is a continous test. . .we are constantly challenged and if we tackle that obstacle with an open mind we come out with new understanding that adds to intellectual maturity. What happens if we face it with a closed and narrow mindset? We would still learn, except that the resulting knowledge will stunt our maturity. No2 has addressed Islam and the Quran with closed mind. You can study a subject and remain detached. . .not necessarily adopting its teachings as your code of ethics or principles in life. He needs to do that with the Quran. If he hasnt read the Torah already, I will add that to the list. The faith of Abraham is the only genuine religion. . . it is the path to idealism and deliverance. Bliss for mankind!!

I know I said my former post was the last on this thread but I could not ignore your observation.

Its the persons doffing there hat for nonsence I pity, his theory is absolutely nonsence, if you take your time to look at it critically, its like a good myth that is coined in very good english. You only know that its all nonsence because apart from his write up he has no reference at all.

Could you imagine him saying one race is more intelligent than the other, just because it has value for life. Where I really wanted him was for him to say Christianity is deceptive in its entirety based on his own theory which he applied to Islam, but the guy was quite smart, he now added right now, he should have also said Islam is dictatorial right now.

What a cheeky fellow.

Uche2nna:
I am sure she meant adult toys

Well she did not only suprise the world by given birth at the age of 11 she also speaks in parables.

muhsin:
Zhelyazkova, thought to be the world's youngest mother, told the News of the World that she would not play with toys anymore as she has "a new toy now".

What does she actually mean by toys? Judging from the ones she has been playing with.

@No2A

No2Atheism:
So if you are asking me whether or not there is great deception within Christianity right now . . . I WOULD SAY YES.

A good show of bias, am not asking you if there is a "deception withtin christianity right now" am asking you if christianity in its entirety is a deception since you easily drew a conclusion on Islam in its entirety from your knowledge of Arabs, draw the same entire conclusion on christianity from your knowledge of white men.

No2Atheism:
Historical and Biblical records show that Mohammed is not a prophet but instead a liar.
Historical records show that Arabs are natural illiterates who assimilated culture of other people and made it look like its their own (e.g. Egypt and Sudan) something that Europeans are also fond of doing.
Historical  records show that Arabs would rather die in battle than not be in a position of authority.
Historical records show that Europeans would also rather commit genocide than not be in a position of authority.

1) I wonder what area of the bible points to you that Mohammed is not a prophet but a liar.

2) Arabic Numerals as they are called 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 the basics of mathematical calculation came from the arabs when Roman Numerals of I, II, IX, C, M did us no good, and remember that mathematics is the bedrock of modern science.

3) Blacks are now the most Intelligent race according to your theory because they have value for life and would naturally not kill, you could as well tell us that blacks before civilisation never went to war against each other.

No2A Only God knows where you got this your therory from, you must be reading some books on History which has not been published.

@Abu

Abu-Safwan:
The reason why Christian failed in Europe at moment of scientific renaissances is because it opposed quest of Science – something strongly emphasized in Islam.

Modern science in Europe started in monasteries, Monks in what is known as Ireland today made the first technological discoveries in europe.

@Tayo-D

Tayo-D:
@Ikomi,
You see why I call you Ayhatollah now? You have summarily dimissed others as ignorant of the Islamic faith. The implications is that you are the all-knowing one whose views must not be questioned. I doff my hat to the Ayatollah.

You can call me whatever you want, I know what your discussions with me has done for you. I still remember my first topic with you, when you blamed Mo for everything in the Midle East, you even blamed him for not been able to put on your own pants properly.

Now your view of events has gone above how you started, you dont talk like that anymore, and the thank you I get is name calling.

I bet you have never read the Koran before and you claim to know about Islam.

My last reply on this thread. Before you call me something else.

JeSoul:
Ikomi,
No2 was just playing around, he's the one NLder with the unmistakable talent of putting a smile on your face no matter the topic or circumstance. He himself is VERY familiar with this "husband" he keeps refering to, infact he was the one who bestowed the title, ask him, he will explain in proper detail.

Well he could be playing around, I was'nt taking anything seriously either, maybe the emoticon () I used made everyone take my comment serious.

Anyway I would not sit around and watch men like No2A flatter beautiful women with long eye lashes. He then later turns around and tell me its all a joke - there is a big risk in that! We wont know when you guys are serious. Thereby cathing us all unaware. Look Jesoul am too bloody smart for that.

No2Atheism:
(men why do i always like confessing in public like this and disgracing myself . . .  ).

There is nothing wrong with confessing in public or trying to woo another mans wife, what I have a problem with is when you raise theories you cant defend.

I would most be happy if you could go back to the Islamocracy or Democracy topic and defend this your wonderful view of Arabs and Islam.

Or are you against the Islamic faith just because your open confession of love for another mans wife would have earned you castration. 

@No2A

Are you trying to use your understanding of the Arabs - which is not right in every sence of it(but lets leave that for now) - to Judge the Islamic faith?

If your answer to the above is yes, your understanding of the White Man does not sound very positive either.

As they say "what is good for the goose is good for the gander", if your understanding of the white man should be used to judge christianity, then we could conclude that christianity is deceptive - this conclusion of mine comes from your analysis, I have added nothing nor subtracted anything.

Since you said and I quote:

Islam is based on dictatorship.
Islam and democracy are not compatible (Pakistan, Indonesia, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Northern Nigeria etc)

I believe that conclusion of yours came from your analysis of this states or the Arab culture where they adhere to strict laws, and thats fair enough (although that does not mean I quiet agree with you).

Now looking at this statement:

Africans recruited by missionaries taught they were sincerely doing the right thing . . . infact most of them still do till today. The problem is that Africans are naturally trusting and symbiotic people hence Africans always make the mistake of thinking that the motive of Europeans are pure

Could we easily conclude that the Christian faith brought to us by the Europeans is a Religion of deception? Since you easily made that deduction of the Islamic faith based on your understanding of the average Arab.

muhsin:
Brother Abu-Safwan has said it all--above. Re-read it with fairness and just, please.

Yet, you can say anything you want, from a long rant, to a long textual groan, to some random thought if you so wish.

Lets see. . .

May Allah be with you, I dont believe in anything that has been tested and failed, to be honest with you I read and stopped right here:

Abu-Safwan:
Islamocracy is a government of God formed by the people to serve the interest and right of the people as bounded by Shari’ah.

It sounds all too familiar. The man asked for my sincere view and I gave it, and if you dont like it may Allah be with you still.

It is the act of trying to bring religion into Goverment that most people like me and the west are afraid of, cause most saw the effect first hand. If you are willing to take us back to dark ages with this new theory -Islamocracy- which am sure you have just discovered, but most of us has heard before and know where it leads, even Allah would be against you, since all those that tried it before you fell flat on their face.

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
Galileo Galilei


Clearly, God is a Democrat. 
Patrick Caddell

Look my friend sometimes this issues are just common sence it has nothing to do with your believe or emotion.

Abu-Safwan:
Ikomi speak frankly, or you're afraid!

Yes am very afraid, have'nt you noticed Yeswecan walking the corridors of this thread with a cross and a bag of nails, who do you think he is looking for?

Well I shall give my view, history has shown us that religion has no place in Governance, not Islam not Christianity non at all, it brings division much more than unity.

We know what the Church actually the Pope at the helm of affairs did with the templars. Nothing but the Crusade which was a gruesome murder of the innocent and members of other faith.

We also know some christians are been persecuted today in some Islamic states for their faith.

It does not stop there, members of the same faith cant find a common ground. The sunni has a problem with the shiite, a protestant thinks the catholic is wasting his time with the way he choses to pray.

At least we all know what happened when the catholics threw Protetans into burning fire in the days of Mary Queen of Scot. I am not going to write history here, but all that shows us religion has no place in Governance.

Abu-Safwan:
Islamocracy is a government of God formed by the people to serve the interest and right of the people as bounded by Shari’ah.

My dear friend I think you should stop right there, I have heard people claim all sorts in the name of God - which am not suprised at to be honest - the only thing am suprised at is how patient the Almighty could be.

@Davidylan,

You stink, I cant stand you sometimes, ad kindly take on Tayo-D as a basket case that he is due to ignorance of the Islamic faith, than your own dogged believe in stupidity.

Negro_Ntns:
Is this your personal convinction based on your truth. . . or the replay of planted beliefs designed to escalate fear?

Hi Neg,

You can tell when persons of very low moral standard post there comment. Can you imagine how the prat started an argument, whereby if you should take him on, he would crumble mid way and result to his speciality insults.

davidylan:
You must be a confused idiot . . . the western world does not need to "depserately" claim that democracy is the best system of government . . . the examples are too numerous to mention. It is no coincidence that 99% of the world's most powerful (militarily and economically) nations are democracies! Please show us examples of islamocracy!

pres-elect:
tayoD, akpokwala m aha ebe ahu maka ike tayo adighi m today . . . .

Only God knows how that boy reasons.

pres-elect:
as for onye di m n'obi, my one and only . .

Anyway thats exactly my point, Jesoul(f) si, mu, keeellleeeee gi. 

pres-elect:
ify m ada m ji eme onu.

Pres-elect, Jesoul(f) si mu kele gi.

yeswecan:
Ahmed Muhamed " his name rings a bell.    ISLAM   13 children by five wives already

Did the man take yours?  

pres-elect:
@jesoul,

contrary to general opinion, hanging is one of the most painless means of dying. unless the hangman is inexperienced. hanging clips the spinal cord at level C3-C6 (somewhere in the neck behind the ear------->instant death.) . . firing sguad on the other hand can lead to immediate death in the executioner is experienced. a bullet in the head end it all.

i maintain my suggestion, get 'em in a closed pit with some starved and upset 200 King Cobras or Black Mambas per terrorist. the king cobra strikes and knocks its victim down, he continues to strike until the victim gets out of the way, meanwhile once struck the poison knocks down the victim, he cant get out of the way, he recieves more strikes, in about an hour he is struggling with the pain of the strikes as well as the neurotoxic venom of the snake. and more importantly it will cost the taxpayer 0$ . . . see, at the end the cobras have something to feed on and wait for the next terrorist

Sometimes am not sure if your after the topic or the lady, you and Tayo-D?

yeswecan:
@Ikomi

You still haven’t condemn the guys action up to this point, all you have been trying to do is find a way to twist the whole issue and stand by your religion. Na wa ooooooooo

You want me to go and shoot the guy before you see my condemnation of his action. Its the use of the phrase Islamic Terrorist, that's all am against, but a terrorist is a down right terrorist period. We don't have Islamic, Christian, Hindu or Neutral Terrorist.

The man has no reason to justify his action, if he felt bad about being a Muslimnd living in America, am sure the city of Abu Dhabi, or Saudi even Somalia would have welcomed him.

There are many soldiers who don't agree with the war in Afghanistan or Iraq but they stage a peaceful protest, just like the one staged by a soldier in London, righting a wrong with another wrong is just wrong. Yeswekanu are you satisfied?  With the way your going one day you will bring a cross to this forum and nail Ikomi to it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/24/soldier-protest-war-afghanistan-london

Tayo-D:
@Ikomi,
Can you tell us the direct correlation between that scripture and the WMDs that Bush sought out in Iraq? If anything, it was the burden of proof (apparently false) provided by the CIA that put Bush over.

Another good sign of you running away with what you want to believe. Considering the fact that loads of WMD was discovered in Iraq.

I don't care who provided false information, it could be CIA, it could be Secretary of Defence it could be the Pentagon, since you work in the white house that should be your cup of tea.

I am only concerned about the incitement of one man in power, who clearly used a quote in the bible to instigate an unjust war, and my question is, is it right to label him a christian terrorist. Judging from the definition that Terror is the inspiration of intense fear, which this man was clearly trying to induce in his briefing of the then President.

Therefore we have a defence secretary who is a christian inducing fear by using words in the bible, which qualifies him a terrorist, now Tayo-D does he as well qualify as a Christian Terrorist?

Tayo-D

You never take your time to get the point in any conversation, you always pick write ups at the middle, disect it and run away with the one that sweets you the most like a boy that was given his first candy.

If you had been following the thread right from the begining, the point we have been trying to make is that a terrorist is a terrorist period, classifying him as an Islamic terrorist is not right. Then your friend Konbojunkie insisted that it must be in this case, since the word Allah Akbar was voiced out. I gave the instance of a man at the level of defence secretary who used a quote in the bible as a defence in his argument to go to war in Iraq, why dont we tag him a christian terrorist?

Now you come up with the idea of you building a mosque in Iraq, who cares if you built a Hindu shrine.  The major point is that the invasion of Iraq is wrong and if the mindset of the men in power at the time is anything to go by, the defence secretary at that time can not be left out.

You took the word instigate for decide, stop trying to deny that, and I asked you to go get a dictionary, you claim thats an insult, well if you call good advise an insult, you leave me no chance Tayo-D

@Osisi

0sisi:
America is full of loose women they say yet they are trooping over here, some with forged papers to look at the loose women.
why?

Ikomi:
Now this is a total diversion, are you talking about strippers?

0sisi:
forget that sentence before we take the discussion on another tangent.

Sorry Osisi I only asked so that I could tell you a little story.

You see I have a good friend Sharouk. We visit strip clubs together, each time the ladies dance naked in front of him, he always goes Allah Akbar, I was thinking between me and you should we tag him an Islamic Pervert.

Tayo-D:
@naliakar,
Let me put yours and other people's wonderment to rest by sharing with you my first thought when I learnt that the bill passed the House.

The first thing that came to mind was a quote by a Native American Indian Chief (his name escapes me now).  The Chief declared the following when he was asked about other Indians who just signed away their land to the White man and chose to move into Reservations: "Indians? What Indians?  I am the only Indian left".

The Native Indians were in most part receptive of the White man who stepped on their land.  History teaches us that the first surviving colony in North America would not have made it save for the Indian tribes that taught them survival techniques.  Over time, the White man continued to migrate into Indian territory, displace the Native people, destroy their way of life and eventually take all of their land from them.

Many of the tribes realise that the opportunity was no longer there to defeat the White man.  The White man in turn, "out of the goodness of his heart" decided to offer the owners of the land meagre portions where he can live.  These meagre acres of land are still refered to today a Reservations.  The White man will give the Indians portions of food, meat, heating oil, clothes and basic necessities of life.  Many Indians considered this a generous offer by the White man. Infact, many betrayed each other and killed each other just to find favor and receive extra portions from the White man.

Others, like the Chief I quoted above, realise that the concept of Reservations denies the fact that the entire land belongs to the Indians.  They were no longer free and are now unable to cater for themselves.  They are now going to be dependent on the White man for everything they provided for and by themselve before.  This is not freedom, it is slavery.

I feel America is now creating another Reservation.  They are taking away our freedom, and creating a dependent class on them. They will give us food, water, housing, healthcare etc as long as we give up something greater - our freedom.  Unknown to many, when you have freedom, you can have all that these people are offering.

Needless to say, I am heartbroken.

   naliakar

Tayo-D:
"Indians? What Indians? I am the only Indian left".

Needless to say, I am heartbroken.

In other words "wrong person, what wrong person, Tayo-D is the only wrong person left."

0sisi:
America is full of loose women they say yet they are trooping over here, some with forged papers to look at the loose women.
why?

Now this is a total diversion, are you talking about strippers?

on the morning of Thursday, April 10, 2003, Donald Rumsfeld's Pentagon prepared a top-secret briefing for George W. Bush. This document, known as the Worldwide Intelligence Update, was a daily digest of critical military intelligence so classified that it circulated among only a handful of Pentagon leaders and the president; Rumsfeld himself often delivered it, by hand, to the White House. The briefing's cover sheet generally featured triumphant, color images from the previous days' war efforts: On this particular morning, it showed the statue of Saddam Hussein being pulled down in Firdos Square, a grateful Iraqi child kissing an American soldier, and jubilant crowds thronging the streets of newly liberated Baghdad. And above these images, and just below the headline secretary of defense, was a quote that may have raised some eyebrows. It came from the Bible, from the book of Psalms: "Behold, the eye of the Lord is on those who fear Him…To deliver their soul from death."

Are you now trying to tell me that the secretary of defence briefing classified top secret has no bearing on the presidents decision?

Moreover I have often used the word instigated, how does the word instigate mean decide.

Go to your local library and ask them for a dictionary. You are not doing very well.

Tayo-D try again. 

I still remember someone asking what is it, that it is, that Tayo-D's feeling is?

Kobojunkie:
A man shouts ALLAH AKBAR and then shoots dead 11 people. In response, these two are here trying to TWIST AND PULL the English Language to make some moot point? Roflmao!!

Keep playing your WORD games, when you are done, you can join the rest in discussing the topic and not your personal insecurities.

Typicall of persons who cant argue contructively but sees every issue as black and white, and when the complication of the case is pointed out to them they ROFLMAO at their own lack of basics.

As I said before your only concern is the shout of Allah Akbar, hmmmm what shallow thought.

I have warned you to go back to your programming area, when we have issues of 2 + 2 which is obviously straight forward we will call on you, this matter would make you loose footing which would leave you in a very bad state.

naliakar:
You need to learn one or two thing about modifiers that come before the nouns they modify. They are used to bestow in toto the adjectival attributes on the subject. You say "An Islamic Terrorist is one who happens to be of the Islamic faith, as well as a terrorist,   Right but you downplay the obvious association of terror and Islamic faith as  inextricable correlatives in the above assertion. I wonder what kind of grammar they teach you in 9ja nowadays. This is the general association that is being made with dangerous consequences for those who profess Islamic faith. Being Islamic has no equivalence with being a terrorist. And dare you call me Dude again, I will report you to the moderator before looking for a koboko you agbero.

Although I quite agree with your point but give that country some respect, its called Nigeria. 

Kobojunkie:
terrorism definition
ter•ror•ism (ter′ər iz′əm)
noun
1. the act of terrorizing; use of force or threats to demoralize, intimidate, and subjugate, esp. such use as a political weapon or policy
2. the demoralization and intimidation produced in this way
Etymology: Fr terrorisme

What you call a straw man argument is what you are trying to run away from.

I knew you had a problem with the word Terror, so it affected your view of who a terrorist is.

Terror is a state of intense fear.

Terrorist is one that inspires this state of intense fear.

Terrorism is the act of inpiring this state of fear.

Now the inspiration of this so called state of fear could be through any action of word or deed.

So I ask you grown up man, when your defence secretary instigated a war with the words "Behold, the eye of the Lord is on those who fear Him…To deliver their soul from death." from the book of Psalms.

Why did we not invent the phrase Christian Terrorist for him?

Maybe if he was a muslim and used words from the Koran we would have quickly said he is an Islamic Terrorist.

That is the point I have been trying to make, and a question you could not answer but instead you hid behind insults of telling me you are not grown up enough to understand my point.

Kobojunkie:
@Ikomi, I am going to say that you please GROW UP and learn to stay on FACT rather than offer straw man arguments that lead us nowhere at all. Again, the man took time to shout out ALLAH AKBAR. He did not shout “DIE M__F_ERS”. He made sure to announce it was RELIGIOUS in some way as he shot his victims dead.

It is OK to admit that you are probably not seeing this the right way --- visit the facts at least. But offering ramblings as rebuttal is annoying and ridiculous.

Maybe you dont undestand what terrorism means that is why the case of the man and his shout of ALLAH AKBAR is all that matters to you.

Go look the definition of Terror

Then Terrorism

Then Terrorist and come back to answer my question about your a former secretary of defence using the highlited the words "Behold, the eye of the Lord is on those who fear Him…To deliver their soul from death." from the book of Psalms, to go to war in Iraq.

Am sure you think its only he thats shouts allah akbar and shoots a few individuals down that is a terrorist. You have'nt even started from the root you consider yourself grown up.