₦airaland Forum

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
To call someone a liar while twisting the words of Jesus to exalt your own religious group over the Son of God is the height of spiritual blindness. You have completely abandoned the clear text of John 5:23 to pitch a recruitment advertisement for your organization, and in doing so, you have fully exposed the deceit of your doctrine.

[b]
Let the Scripture crush this desperate diversion.

You ask, *"Which religious group honors Jesus in this world better than Jehovah's Witnesses?"* The answer is: any group that actually obeys John 5:23 instead of trying to rewrite it. Jesus explicitly commanded that the Son must be honored **"just as"** (in the exact same manner and degree) as the Father. Do Jehovah's Witnesses pray directly to Jesus? No. Do you worship Jesus? No, your own publications explicitly forbid it. Do you offer the exact same praise, devotion, and absolute reverence to Jesus that you give to Jehovah? No. By your own theological definitions, you do not honor the Son *just as* you honor the Father. Therefore, according to the very next line of that verse, you do not honor the Father at all. You can claim to "honor" Jesus as a prominent creature or a masterpiece angel, but that is a counterfeit honor that directly violates His command.

Your argument that this honor was only for the first century because Jesus was "visibly with the Jews" is a pathetic fabrication. Where does John 5:23 say, "Honor the Son just as the Father only while He is visibly present"? It doesn't. Jesus is speaking about His eternal status as the Judge of the living and the dead. The context of John 5 is about His divine authority to raise the dead and execute judgment—powers He holds for eternity, whether visible to human eyes or not. [/b]

But your most dangerous twist comes when you try to slide "Christ’s brothers" into the place of Christ Himself. You quoted Matthew 25:40 and Matthew 10:40 to argue that honoring Jesus means honoring a specific group of people in your neighborhood. You are attempting to steal the unique, divine honor that belongs solely to Jesus Christ and transfer it to the human leadership of an organization.

Look at the blasphemous ladder you just tried to build: you argue that people cannot honor God unless they honor Jesus, and they cannot honor Jesus unless they recognize and honor your specific group as His "brothers." You have literally made salvation dependent on submitting to human representatives rather than submitting to the Creator.

The Apostles never preached themselves as the destination of honor. Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 4:5, *"For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake."*

You want to talk about who is in the neighborhood? Jesus is not hiding behind a corporate organization. He is the omnipresent Creator who promised in Matthew 28:20, *"I am with you always, to the very end of the age."*

Stop playing word games with the King of Kings. You cannot substitute showing hospitality to your organization's members for the total, divine, equal honor that Jesus Christ demands for Himself in John 5:23. You are trying to deflect from your refusal to worship the Son by pointing to your human works, but the Scripture stands firm: if you do not honor the Son in the exact same way you honor the Father, your religion is completely in vain.

"Honour your Father and your mother", says your Bible.
Oga,is your Bible commanding you to worship them?

Oga, honour does not mean worship , I hope you know the difference .

Oga, Jesus has given you instruction to worship ONLY Yahweh his Father, Matthew 4:10. Mark 12:29-30.
@John 12:49-50,Yahweh taught Jesus to stick with Matthew 4:10.
Oga,no lose guard.


Pls don't use John 5:23 dey lose guard.
Revelation 3:2,12, Jesus is a worshipper in heaven.
Na him talk so.

Emusan:
When you people want to do your abracadabra you'll begin to mix English Language with Hebrew or Greek

How can Jesus use the Word HELL when Hell is an English Language?

Did Jesus speak English Language during His time on Earth?

Emusan:
The absurd response you'll get is that Jehovah created Jesus first then use Jesus to create ALL OTHER THINGS.

Firstly, notice that in other to corrupt God's word the word 'OTHER' which was never found in any known Greek manuscripts in possession today was inserted into their ONLY BIBLE translation several times. Which shows the kind of spirit working in them.

Secondly, if Jehovah created Jesus first then Genesis 1:1 will forever be wrong [b]"In the BEGINNING God created the Heavens and the Earth" this is what God reveals to have created IN THE BEGINNING not Jesus. That is why John even placed the existence of the Word who became Flesh known as Jesus IN THE BEGINNING which means The Word witnessed ALL CREATIONS.[/b]

Thirdly, let's assume Jesus was created before ALL THINGS, where will Jesus live? Creature needs abode, reason why God created Heaven for Angels and physical word for physical beings. You'll realize that they can't answer you.

In conclusion, the scripture reveals that Jesus is the Creator! Any other interpretation than this is from the pit of hell.

Did Jesus have the same Father /Ancestor with other beings in heaven?

Why?
Hebrews 6:13, 1 Corinthians 8:6 God created EVERYTHING ,Jesus is NOT excluded.
Go and find out the meaning of ancestor in your Bible & stop deceiving yourself.
1 Corinthians 3:23, Jesus belongs to God.
God owns Jesus.
Nobody owns God our heavenly Father & the Father of Jesus in heaven.
"Archon/Ruler of creation by jesus" is NOT at Rev 3:14.
Jesus is " the Arkhe /Beginning of creation by Gid" is at Rev 3:14.

Oga, get this info internalized in your memory.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
That is exactly the point.

The discussion should remain focused on what the text actually says, not on assumptions imported into the text.

The scripture says:

"All things were made through Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:3)

Notice John's careful wording. He does not merely say that many things were made through Christ. He says that nothing that was made came into existence apart from Him.

Therefore, if someone wishes to place Christ among the things that were made, they must explain how Christ could simultaneously belong to the category of things made and yet be the One without whom nothing in that category was made.

That is the question that requires an answer.

Likewise, 1 Corinthians 8:6 says that all things are from the Father and through the Son. Paul is not describing two different creations but one creation, with the Father as the source and the Son as the divine agent.

The more carefully these passages are examined, the more the burden falls on those who argue that Christ is a creature to explain how the Creator Agent of all things can also be counted among the things brought into existence.

I look forward to seeing how they address those texts directly and consistently.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
That is exactly the point.

The discussion should remain focused on what the text actually says, not on assumptions imported into the text.

The scripture says:

"All things were made through Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:3)

Notice John's careful wording. He does not merely say that many things were made through Christ. He says that nothing that was made came into existence apart from Him.

Therefore, if someone wishes to place Christ among the things that were made, they must explain how Christ could simultaneously belong to the category of things made and yet be the One without whom nothing in that category was made.

That is the question that requires an answer.

Likewise, 1 Corinthians 8:6 says that all things are from the Father and through the Son. Paul is not describing two different creations but one creation, with the Father as the source and the Son as the divine agent.

The more carefully these passages are examined, the more the burden falls on those who argue that Christ is a creature to explain how the Creator Agent of all things can also be counted among the things brought into existence.

I look forward to seeing how they address those texts directly and consistently.

plesion:
There are ways to think of God according to the letter alone, without the spirit, and htere is a way to think of it not from the letter alone, but also from the spirit.

If from a letter alone, then there is one God who sends another God, and then two of those send the third One. So, in thinking, though not in the expression, there is then the idea of the three Gods.

Though as we know there is only one God.

So, then we have not only to read the letter, but also attempt to understand it so that our understanding may agree with both the Word and the sound reason.

In that sense, God Himself, as He is in Himself, or the Infinite, technically cannot come on earth, for then He would either destroy it completely, for then there is no accomodation. And yet we are told in the Old Testament constantly that Jehovah would come to deliver his people.

And thus He comes, but comes in the way that allows to carry out his mission. Thus, He assumes the Human, which is concevied and born of Him.

For those who are interested here is a more detailed explanation:

" 84. God could not have redeemed people, that is, rescued them from damnation and hell, without first taking on a human manifestation. There are many reasons for this; they will be disclosed step by step in what follows. Redemption was a matter of gaining control of the hells, restructuring the heavens, and then establishing a church. Despite his omnipotence, God could not accomplish these things except through his human manifestation, as one cannot do work without arms. In fact, in the Word his human manifestation is called the arm of Jehovah (Isaiah 40:10; 53:1). By analogy, one cannot attack a fortified city and destroy the temples of idols there without powerful means.
The Word as well makes it clear that having a human manifestation gave God the omnipotence to do this divine work. God is in the inmost and purest realms. There was no other way he could cross over to the lowest levels where the hells exist and where people were at that time, just as a soul cannot do anything without a body. By analogy, there is no way to overpower enemies who are not in sight and whom we cannot get close to with weapons such as spears, shields, or guns.
To redeem people without a human manifestation would have been as impossible for God as it would be for someone [outside India] to take control of people in India without sending in troops on ships. It would be as impossible as growing trees on heat and light alone if air had not been created as a medium through which they travel and earth had not been created in which the trees could grow. In fact, it would be as impossible as catching fish by throwing a net in the air and not in the water.
Given Jehovah's inherent nature, despite his omnipotence he could not touch any individual devils in hell or any individual devils on earth and control them or their rage or tame their violence unless he could be as present in the farthest realms as he is in those closest to him. In his human manifestation he is in fact present in the farthest realms. This is why the Word refers to him as the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End [Revelation 1:8, 11; 21:6; 22:13]." (True Christian Religion).

" 125. That Jehovah God could have entered upon and have accomplished such a work only by means of His Human may be illustrated by various comparisons; as, that one who is invisible cannot shake hands or converse with another until he becomes visible; thus an angel or spirit could have no interaction with a man, even if standing close to his body and before his face. Neither can anyone's soul converse with another or act with another except by means of his body. The sun with its light and heat can enter into man, beast, or tree only by first entering the air and operating through it; or can enter into a fish only by means of the water, since it must act through that element in which the subject resides. No one can scale a fish without a knife, or pluck a crow without fingers; or descend to the bottom of a lake without a diving-bell; in a word, anyone thing must be adapted to another before it can communicate with it or operate with it or against it."

When that mission was accomplished, and the Human was made Divine, the Lord God Jesus Christ is not a God, which is separate from Jehovah God, and the more so it is not those two separate Gods send the third One.

But as it is said: "I and the Father are One". "The one who sees me sees the Father". So, when the Human became Divine, Jehohav God is then seen in the Glorified Human of His Own, and so when we approach the Lord, we approach at the same time the Jehovah in Him, as the Soul int the Body of its own, with that specification, that in the Lord Jesus Christ there is both Divine and Human, and they make one, the Divine Human.

plesion:
I[i] generally agree with many things of what you say, but I would add the following.

Considering that there is only one God, not three, and that God Himself who came into the world and glorified His Human, then our Lord Jesus Christ is that God in His Divine Human, thus both God and Man, or, in other words, in the Lord - God is Man, and Man is God.

So, in the Lord the Father and the Son are so completely one, that they make a one Divine Person[/i].
In that sense, we can speak of knowing how God/the Infinite/Invisible Divine in the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Visible Divine, thus showing God Invisible.

So, in that sense, the Lord is Jehovah Himself, who sends the Holy Spirit (consider how he sent the Holy Spirit to the disciples by breathing upon them).

Here are a few quotations, illustrating those issues:

" 18. CHAPTER V.

THE HUMAN OF THE LORD JEHOVAH IS "THE SON OF GOD SENT INTO THE WORLD."

1. Jehovah God sent Himself into the world whereby He assumed the Human.

2. This Human, conceived from Jehovah God, is called "the Son of God, which was sent into the world."

3. This Human is called "the Son of God," and "the Son of Man"; "the Son of God," from the Divine Truth and the Divine Good in Him, which is the Word; and "the Son of Man," from the Divine Truth and the Divine Good from Him, which is the doctrine of the church from the Word.

4. No other Son of God is meant in the Word, but He who was born in the world.
... (Canons of the New Church)

Another one:

" 149. By "the Son of God" is signified the Divine truth, because by "sons" in the Word are signified truths; "the Son of God" therefore means the Divine truth. Hence by "the Son of God from eternity" is meant the proceeding Divine which is called the Divine truth, and from which is heaven; and hence, likewise, the Lord in the world was the Divine truth, which afterwards proceeded from Him. Thence it is that they are called "sons of God" who are recipients of the Divine truth.
150. The Lord was conceived of the Divine Itself, and was afterwards born of that; for what was born of Mary, this the Lord from His own Divine expelled; thence He assumed a Human corresponding to the Divine; thus He united the Divine, which means that the Divine took to Itself the Human. Hence it is that He was not only conceived but was also born of Jehovah, according to what is written in Psalm 2:1, 2, 6. It is also said:
I will tell the decree; Jehovah hath said unto Me, Thou art My Son; this day have I begotten Thee (Ps. 2:7);
and hence it is that He is the Son of God." ("On the Athanasian Creed" by Em. Swedenborg)

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
Simply claiming that it cannot is not an argument.

You must first prove that *arche* in Revelation 3:14 is being used in exactly the same sense as "from whom" in 1 Corinthians 8:6. Until that is established, the charge of inconsistency remains an assertion rather than a demonstrated conclusion.

Truthseeker10:
So where do you stand, does "arche"(beginning) in Revelation 3:14 refer to Jesus as a creature or as a creator(source)?

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
On the other hand, if *arche* is understood as origin, ruler, or source of authority over creation, then Revelation 3:14 is describing Christ’s relationship to creation rather than placing Him inside it.

This aligns with the broader pattern in Scripture:

The Father is described as the One “from whom are all things” (ultimate source).
The Son is described as the One “through whom are all things” (divine agent of creation).

So the real issue is not choosing between “creature” or “source” as rigid categories. The issue is how *arche* functions in context.

The text does not force Christ into the category of a created being, nor does it redefine Him as the ultimate source in the same sense as the Father. It points to His primacy, authority, and foundational role in relation to creation.

Therefore, the binary itself is not the correct framework for reading Revelation 3:14. The meaning must be drawn from the full consistency of Scripture, not an isolated lexical assumption.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
The question forces a false binary: either Revelation 3:14 makes Christ a creature or it makes Him the source of creation. The text itself does not demand either conclusion.

Revelation 3:14 says:

“the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the *arche* of God’s creation”

The Greek word *arche* has a broad range of meaning: beginning, ruler, origin, or first principle. The meaning must be determined by context, not assumed in advance.

If *arche* is taken to mean “first created being,” then Christ would be placed inside creation as part of it. However, this reading immediately clashes with the broader New Testament witness:
.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
John 1:3 says all things were made through Him.
Colossians 1:16 says all things were created through Him and for Him.
Hebrews 1:2 says God made the worlds through the Son.

If all created things came into existence through Him, then He cannot simultaneously be included as part of the created set without collapsing the meaning of “all things.”

.

Tilewizy:
My earnest prayers is that the Holy spirit of God, open your all your eyes to know Jesus Christ (God)

The workings of God are beyond the proscription of human organisations. Rather it's a call to personal fellowship with Him (God, the Father! God, the Son! and God, the Holy Spirit) [The Trinity]!
No even bound by Church doctrine.

Check the Nicene creed below"
"I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.

God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.

For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.

He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen."


Anything outside the above I'm afraid, it's not Christianity.

MaxInDHouse:
Just as their Daddy G.O drank tea with their God nah!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
You just quote the Bible without knowing the PRACTICAL APPLICATION!😀

Having a form of godliness: shouting and disturbing the neighborhood with noise of their worship and prayers.

Denying the power of God's word:
Unable to produce the fruit worthy of emulation.

Tilewizy:
By the grace of God I have grown to a point where God speaks to me in various ways. Of course, thank God for great men of God who have taught us the knowledge of God's word and its application from onset.

Jeremiah 3:15 - And I will give you pastors/Shepherds according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

• Only your organisation have a separate bible where certain sentences or narration in other versions are changed, and you feel it's not a problem. Do I need a pastor to tell me something is wrong?
• The word of God is twisted deliberately and you are brain washed to completely derail from the very essence of the knowledge of truth. Do I need a pastor to tell me something is wrong.

The scriptures below shows the true witnesses -

• Matthew 28:19-20 - “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

• Acts 1:8 - “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

• Luke 24:46-49 - “And said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

• Acts 22:15 - “For you will be a witness for him to everyone of what you have seen and heard.”

• Luke 21:13-15 - “This will be your opportunity to bear witness. Settle it therefore in your minds not to meditate beforehand how to answer, for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which none of your adversaries will be able to withstand or contradict.”

Tilewizy:
It can not be argument, because when the truth of the gospel is preached every false teaching/doctrine would bow. For you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Being a Christian is a daily walk (relationship) with God (the Trinity combined) and having an encounter with Him.

unitysheart:
Alright sir.

No need to argue with you.

Thanks.

Tilewizy:
They are not Christians because;
1. They demystify the power of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, rather commemorate with his death only
2. They remove the mystery and life of the subject of faith
3. They reduce the person of the Holy Spirit (the 3rd God head)
4. In other words, they don't believe in the trinity (God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit)

Dixon3113:
Good evening sirs, I was able to book an appointment with my doctor, I was given some treatment all most was pain was down in a couple of hours, my concerns now is the size, it Is as big as an apple and stiff too, it gets easily strained even with a short walk, the doctor said it takes time to flare.

But I want those of you guys out there with experience to share expectations in the healing process.

Thanks

IseOluwa777:
The Bible does not teach a Trinity of three co-equal persons. It teaches one God—one divine Person—who revealed Himself as Father, in the Son, and now as the Holy Spirit. It’s not three Gods, and it’s not three persons; it’s one God making Himself known.

Scriptural explanation
- One God:
- “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD” (Deuteronomy 6:4; Mark 12:29).
- “Beside Me there is no God” (Isaiah 44:6,.
- “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5).
- God manifested in flesh:
- “God was manifest in the flesh” (1 Timothy 3:16).
- “The Word was God… and the Word was made flesh” (John 1:1,14).
- “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself” (2 Corinthians 5:19).
- “In Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily” (Colossians 2:9).
- “I and My Father are one” (John 10:30). “He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father” (John 14:9-10).
- How He reveals Himself:
- God is a Spirit (John 4:24): Father—God above us.
- The Son is the body born of the virgin (Luke 1:35; Galatians 4:4): Emmanuel—God with us.
- The Holy Ghost is that same Jesus coming back in Spirit to dwell in us: “I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you” (John 14:16-18).
- One Name:
- “In the name [singular] of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” (Matthew 28:19).
- The apostles understood that Name and baptized “in the name of Jesus Christ” (Acts 2:38; 10:48; 19:5).


Continue
https://truebibleteachingsai.org/answers/what-does-the-bible-teach-about-the-trinity-e0cc65b

IseOluwa777:
1 timothy 3:16 says "God was manifest in the flesh". and In Him dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. All these are scriptures that show that Jesus was a man, but the Spirit that dwelt in him was God. The human Jesus was praying to the Eternal Spirit that dwelt in Him. "My Father dwelleth in me" He said.

MaxInDHouse:
A Christian is someone who follows Jesus and do things Jesus commanded but a Jehovah's Witness is someone called by Jehovah Himself due to his or her pure heart.
A Christian may decide to stop following Jesus {John 6:66} a witness of Jehovah will continue seeking the only group where the spirit of Jehovah is operating.
So when a Christian feels tired of what Jesus is saying and decided to forget about faith in God a witness of Jehovah will never ever forget about faith but continue seeking His fellow believers in God, that is why you will see many who are not even believers in Christ entering God's Kingdom because they love God with all their hearts but got lost due to deception in the world of false religions all claiming worshipers of the true God.

achorladey:
The reasons were not because they considered national defense unscriptural.

The apostles didn't make any doctrine of it

Floww23:
Murder is not just with weapons, there is murder in the tongues too , the scripture says there is life and death in the tongue. Do you know how many JW has sent another JW to depression and su1cide with Words ? Go to your Facebook forums , JW'S murdering each other with 1nsults in the comments , some attacking the depressed single sisters in your midst with swords of the tongue

Let's even put individual JW aside, do you know how many su1cides has happen as a result of the Shunning policy of the JW religion? Why do you think they quickly adjusted the greeting side of the Shunning? This are murders happening right in your midst, don't come and play this stup1d righteous card of we don't carry weapon

Emusan:
But it is the same people your Watchtower claimed they're not Christians as true Christians died with Apostle John who is the last Apostle.

When your confusion is confused

FxMasterz:
You should have quoted those Scriptures out so that everyone would know that the scriptures you listed are unrelated.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus always speak in Idioms that's why his disciples never questioned him when he told them and note what they said in response:

“Lord, look! here are two swords.”
Jesus realized they are not yet used to Idioms despite all his teachings so he cut the conversation by saying:
“It is enough.” Luke 22:38

Please if each of them needs a sword according to Jesus' statement how can two swords be enough for eleven men?

That shows he wasn't talking about physical swords but since they couldn't grasp his expression he said "it is enough" like saying "ok cut the crap"

Later God's holy spirit enlightened our first century brothers that Jesus was talking about each disciple having his own complete copy of the holy writings (Scriptures) which they later referred to as "SWORD". Ephesians 6:17; Hebrews 4:12

In fact when apostle John saw Jesus in his spiritual body the utterances protruding our of his mouth appeared as a SWORD! Revelation 19:15

So my guy each Jehovah's witness in all the earth have a complete copy of the Bible the SPIRITUAL SWORD today and if any of us doesn't have one we will sell whatever we have to buy one but thanks to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses even though Bible is really costly today there is no single JW throughout the world who doesn't have a complete copy of the Bible as they wisely managed the resources gotten to make sure each of us no matter how poor that country is all JWs in that country will have a Bible each!

That's the import of what my Master Lord and King Christ Jesus said!🙂

FxMasterz:
The reasons for which some early Christians avoided military service is different from yours. They avoided because they didn't want to be part of emperor worship, indiscriminate bloodshed (the emperor can just send you to go and kill anybody), oath of allegiance to the emperor as a deity, etc. The reasons were not because they considered national defense unscriptural.

The apostles didn't make any doctrine of it. So, some joined, some didn't. Those who didn't join had reasons different from yours. In the absence of those reasons, they'll join.