Emusan:


See your life outside.

So FIRSTBORN just means FIRST not FIRST TO BE CREATED

Jesus is the first to be BORN by God.
The first born of our Father in heaven.
In your own Bible every BORN Being is a creature.
Oga STOP DECEIVING YOURSELF.

Emusan:


If FIRSTBORN from the dead means FIRST to be raised then that's not the meaning of "FIRSTBORN"

Emusan:


The term FIRSTBORN means SUPERIORITY [/b]that's how it's being used even in our today's world. CEV used that perfectly.
"

Emusan:


Firstly, it says Jesus is "BEFORE ALL THINGS"
Lastly, it says Jesus "IS THE BEGINNING"

"Before all things" , this expression is not in Colossians 1:18, Oga don't add your Maggi to the holy scriptures.

"Jesus is the beginning....." Let's use simple example to illustrate.. 1980 is the beginning of Nigeria's victory in AFCON.

Is 1980 excluded from Nigeria's victory/participation in AFCON?
Therefore Jesus Christ is a creature, the beginning of the creation by God his Father.

Trinity shege !!!!!!!

Steep:
It means he is the source and ruler of God's creation because all things were made by him.
Scrupture says without him nothing created would exist meaning he himself is not part of created things.

No Sir.
Hebrew 1:2, Isaiah 44:24 & Daniel 4:30 debunked your claim.
God MADE all things (including Jesus Christ, Rev3:14). Likewise, Nebuchadnezzar made Babylon through his workers/subjects).
Please go & verify.

Matthew 19:4-6 & 1 Corinthians 8:6,is Jesus the source of creation?
@ 1 Corinthians 8:6,Is Paul LYING against Jesus?

Kobojunkie:
The problem is Jesus Christ already more than answered the question of His identity clearly in His Gospel. So, the attempt made by even this religious organization to assert its special lie over that declared in Scripture more than reveals that their intention is not towards the Truth of God but rather to promote the lies of men in its place.

Kobojunkie:

As made clear by the author of the book of John below in John 1 vs 1, Jesus Christ is not the God of Israel even though Jesus Christ, like the Father, is a God. In His teachings, Jesus Christ said the following of the relationship between Himself and the Father, God of Israel.

■ The Father is greater than He, Jesus Christ,
■ He, Jesus Christ, is in the Father, and the Father is in Him(Jesus Christ),
■ All that Jesus Christ gives to you, His follower, is that which the Father gives Him,
■ He, Jesus Christ does only that which His Father bids Him do,
■ He, Jesus Christ cannot do anything apart from the Father,
■ He, Jesus Christ said," “My Father never stops working, and so I work too.”
■ He, Jesus Christ also said, “I assure you that the Son can do nothing alone. He does only what he sees his Father doing. The Son does the same things that the Father does. The Father loves the Son and shows him everything he does."
....etc.

Kobojunkie:


John, the author of John 1 vs 1 did not get it wrong at all, and as such, the attempt by the religious zealots/cult to "correct" him by denying what he wrote is rather from a place that is against God, and Jesus Christ. Yes, what John wrote in John 1 vs 1 is corroborated by the words of Jesus Christ recorded in all 4 Gospels — Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. What the JW cult asserts is hence antichrist in origin.

Emusan:


It's now SPIRITUAL REALM

This JaNosense won't stop to amaze someone



Says the jws lying liar who has donated his brain

Courz:


Are you suddenly blind to these sources below? What happened to them? Are they not reliable? Mumu Janosky with your maggot infested brain.

Courz:


Are you suddenly blind to these sources below? What happened to them? Are they not reliable? Mumu Janosky with your maggot infested brain.

Courz:


Oh Yes. Way better than you. In fact, all churches already knew that No one knows the day or hour Jesus would come. Only You JWs went to form numerous false prophecies including 1914. Every church agrees that Jesus is our Mediator. You JWs said No. Most agree on who Jesus really is. You JWS Preach an Antichrist doctrine. You and a host of other Cults. I will not be attending these churches if they didn't have the correct teachings of Jesus. Anyone who teaches similar Antichrist doctrines like you JWs must be rejected. That's why people reject you fast when you go to preach. They are seeing what you JWs cannot see.

Courz:


Since you can quote Secular sources because they are reliable, what happened to this source? Why are you rejecting the same Secular source below?

Courz:


Yes. Tell us. How did you arrive at 537? From the Bible or from unreliable Secular sources?

Courz:


Janosky Is such a dunce! He by himself said that Secular Histrorians gave 537 Bce for the end of Exile. He never mentioned the Bible. He said Secular History. But the same Secular History that gave 537 also gave 586/587 Bce as Jerusalem's destruction. You are asking him why he depended on the same Secular History to give 537 but refused to take 586/587 for Jerusalem's destruction. He has been doing as if he didn't see your question and divert to another thing. This is the problem of Jehovah's Witnesses. They can't explain their Lies. They will rather find something else to distract you.

LYING ACOURZD IBERIBEISM on 16th February ,2024 @8:08am

Go & verify Janosky post on15th February,2024 @10:41pm. (Screenshot evidence)

Secular history gave the year 537 BCE that king Cyrus ordered the Jews to return to rebuild Jerusalem's temple. Screenshot evidence. grin

Your holy Bible gave the prophecy of king Cyrus giving that order. Ezra 1:1-4. 2 chronicles 36:20-23.
Go & verify.

Emusan:


You never mentioned several DATES. Stop lying.

How did you arrive at the date 537BC? is the question you have not answered.

Courz:


Where is 607 in the Bible? Why is it that no single historian or Archeologist agree with your forged date?

Emusan:


Of course do I expect JaNosense to disagree



Where was SPIRITUAL REALM appear in Rome 11:35-36

Just remove the SPIRITUAL REALM from your point and see clearly



So you created your FIRST BORN



The same Bible truth you're running away from.

johnw47:


Ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool


truly lost fraud jw janosky, all of Christianity doesn't practise prophecy fraud,
you such a liar against Christianity, aren't you fraud jw:

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Christendom. / (ˈkrɪsəndəm) / noun. the collective body of Christians throughout the world or throughout history. an obsolete word for Christianity.

Charles Awuzie has exposed the fraud you labeled "prophecy/miracles".

John WAILING HYPOCRITE

Emusan:


That watchtower added words that are not found in the manuscripts to their translation.

Even you know this truth.


Where watchtower invented their from.

Emusan:

[quote author=Emusan post=128476733]

The translation never said THE TWO BEINGS even had a BEGINNING in the first place.

Emusan:


JaNosense

Emusan:


You tell us.

In Emusan's Bible is Every First born is a creature?
Yes.
Oga,stick this Bible truth into your brain.

Gaskiya.

MightySparrow:


Hello my brother. I have been checking to see MaximumSide's contribution. He seems to be more informed than his brethren in delusion here.

Christ is a mystery.Colosians 2:2. I salute all the people that have contributed of meaningfully to this topic. I am still waiting for MaximumSide and I have few questions to ask.

I may then make my contribution.
You are doing well and I salute you all.

MUMU WAILER , did you see 3 deities in Colossians 2:2?
How many beings are stated in Colossians 2:2 in your own Bible?

Idol worshipping polytheist.

Emusan:


When you didn't address my point.

Do you know how you sound?

You gave me simple task which I did and I gave you simple task you started preambulating like a lost goat.

Emusan,Your intention was to insult me but you ended up exposing yourself for LYING.
Emusan did not do any "simple task" I first gave him.
LYING man

Emusan:


Here is my task again: So can you just provide from your own phone and laptop Google search the year Jerusalem was destroyed or Google has disappeared on your phone and laptop?

Emusan:



Under which canopy did you hide to arrive at 537BC?

You got it from Bible Ko

Secular history gave the year 537 BCE that king Cyrus ordered the Jews to return to rebuild Jerusalem's temple. Screenshot evidence.

Your holy Bible gave the prophecy of king Cyrus giving that order. Ezra 1:1-4. 2 chronicles 36:20-23.
Go & verify.
Emusan do you agree?

Emusan:


You will have answer to your questions until you address mine.

Then let your phone and laptop provide the vital point nah, why is it so difficult for you to do?

Emusan:


I'm not watchtower that twisted God's word.

I quoted a translation, don't tell me you don't read my post.

Well, I'm not watchtower, watchtower is found of doing that.

Emusan:


I provided a translation even the person you're discussing with yesterday quoted this translation "Before the world began, the Word was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Emusan:


The fact that you can't boldly say YES TWO BEGINNING can happen in a system of thing shows you're not to be taking serious.

Well, let me re-emphasize it again, YOU CANT HAVE TWO BEGINNINGS in a system of thing.

So both verse 1&2 are talking about the same BEGINNING.

Emusan:


God can't lie.
The FIRST THING TO BE CREATED IN THE BEGINNING is Heavens and the Earth. Gen 1:1.

Emusan:


It's stupidity to answer question with questions and meanwhile I've already dusted this, don't take us back JaNosense.

So can you just provide from your own phone and laptop Google search the year Jerusalem was destroyed or Google has disappeared on your phone and laptop?

You have to respond to the questions.

What did your own Bible teach you about the king mentioned in your search engines who made a remarkable decision in 537 BCE?

Then you will begin to receive sense
You wan hide under canopy of secular history shey?

What did your own Bible say about the captivity of Jews in Jerusalem?

There's a vital point you are missing there.
Your throwing tantrums won't help you.

Emusan:


Do you need hammer to knock it on your head?

The fact is THERE IS ONLY ONE BEGINNING.

So verse Two was talking about THE SAME BEGINNING.

Why is English so difficult for you to comprehend?

Verse 1 He was with God Before The Beginning
Verse 2 in The very Beginning He was still with God.

How is this simple English that a pupil shouldn't find hard to understand so difficult for you?

The fact that you're trying to establish TWO BEGINNINGS shows you don't know what you're doing.

Emusan:


Well, my phone and laptop Google show that Jerusalem was destroyed in year 587BC.

So can you provide from your own phone and laptop Google search the year Jerusalem was destroyed?

I'm waiting JaNosense

What did your phone & laptop show you occurred in the year 537 BCE?

What did your own Bible teach you about the king mentioned in your search engines who made a remarkable decision in 537 BCE?

Don't be a dim wit

Emusan:


I just love how all of you are boycotting my question.

Which means you people know you're lying.

Emusan:


Smile....so you don't have anyone who agreed and established 607BC as fact.

That's wonderful

oteneaaron:


It is not a claim.

I do have direct access to God.

Do you?

Moreso, I didn't complain about your beliefs if that is what you're insinuating.

I have only consistently exposed your religion for the cult that it is.

Why?

Because I spent many years of my life as a baptized member of the same cult.

So what gives?



Is that what you think?

Have I stated on this thread that I didn't want to be questioned?

In a conversation, it goes both ways.

If you ask me a question and I answer, courtesy demands that you answer my questions too.

If it is one-sided, then it becomes nothing more than an interrogation.



Exposing the LIES of the Jehovah's Witness cult doesn't mean I am complaining.

I have lived through it, it is my experience and I will expose it for what it really is.

Cheers bro!

Emusan:


O ma se oooo

So to provide the ALL who agreed and established the FACT of 607BC is what you're going around like a lost sheep.

537BC is agreed and established as FACT by ALL.

Who are those that AGREED and ESTABLISHED 607BC as FACT?

That's the main point, if you have any question other than this on this thread, then you can create thread from it.

MightySparrow:


Of all the JWs on this platform this fellow is the most unintelligent one. I seldom respond to his foolishness.

Sand2022:


That seems to be the right step to take.

Acts 9: 3 -9,19-20 when Jesus Christ converted Paul, was Paul led & guided by the leaders of his faith ?

Paul's experience @ Acts 9:3-9,19-20 PROVEN in his writing of Hebrew 13:7,17 is NOT intelligent to FAITHLESS MISCREANTS.

Emusan:


They are the one who will make dubious claims they will be the same people telling you to look for the evidence that support their claims. Very pathetic set of people!

Since Oga intelligent officer was exposed of those videos, you notice he couldn't talk again about the fraud of 607BC, he was so happy seeing @mightysparrow changing the subject matter with him

Did secular history prove that king Cyrus of Persia released the Jewish captives in Babylon (captive for 70 years) to return to Jerusalem in 537 BCE & rebuild the temple to fulfil 2 chronicles 36:2023 & Ezra 1:1-4 ?

The years of BCE was counted backwards. When you add 70 years Jewish captivity to year 537 BCE , what do you get?

MUMU WAILER DECEIVING HIMSELF

Oga, carry your IBERIBEISM & STUPIDITY out of this forum.

Realz99:


How

Sand2022:
Jehovah's witnesses subscribe to cessationism. A theology that believes that spiritual gifts ceased in the first century.

Jehovah's witness hierarchy doesn't know for sure when the gift ceased. They deductively assume it ended in the first century. One of there books said:

"The gifts of the holy spirit were generally passed on to other Christians in the presence of the apostles, usually by the apostles placing their hands on fellow believers. (Acts 8:​18; 10:44-​46) It appears that those who received the gifts of the spirit from the apostles did not transfer them to others. (Acts 8:​5-7, 14-​17) To illustrate, a government official may issue a driver’s license to someone, but that person is not given the legal authority to issue a license to anyone else. Apparently, speaking in tongues ended with the death of the apostles and those who had personally received the gift from them."

The JW Governing Body do not believe that 1cor 13:8-11 spoke of the gift ending when "that which is perfect" come. Many JWs often quote that scripture, saying that " that which is perfect" is the bible, so when the bible was completed, the gift ended. I don't know how this tradition developed, but that is not what their publications teach. I agree with that truth that the gift will cease when that which is perfect comes, although many witnesses who use that argument don't know they are teaching something different from their church understanding.

Let's look at the Reasoning book of JWs, page 404. Let's first see why they threw away the fine proof in 1cor 13:8-11, after that, we will see when that which is perfect will come.

Why did they dismiss the clear proof of when the gift will end at 1cor 13:8-11?

The Reasoning book states:

"At 1 Corinthians 13:8 reference is made to several miraculous gifts—prophecy, tongues, and knowledge. Verse 9 again refers to two of these gifts—knowledge and prophecy—saying: “For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.” (KJ) Or, as RS reads: “For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect.” Then verse 10 states: “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” (KJ) The word “perfect” is translated from the Greek teʹlei·on, which conveys the thought of being full grown, complete, or perfect. Ro, By, and NW here render it “complete.” Notice that it is not the gift of tongues that is said to be “imperfect,” “in part,” or partial. That is said of “prophecy” and “knowledge.” In other words, even with those miraculous gifts, the early Christians had only an imperfect or partial understanding of God’s purpose. But when the prophecies would come to fulfillment, when God’s purpose would be accomplished, then “that which is perfect,” or complete, would come. So, this is obviously not discussing how long the ‘gift of tongues’ would continue."

We can see how clear scripture at 1cor 13 was sidelined by the Watchtower. They were already getting to the correct understanding before they shifted it cleverly.

It is clear from that scripture that the gift of prophecy, knowledge and speaking in tongues are all part of the spiritual gifts, when that of prophecy ends, so will the other gifts. When will they end? The book correctly said it's when Gods purposes all get fulfilled in God's kingdom. By then, that which is perfect or complete would have come, showing that there is no need for the gifts.

After wrongly saying that this scripture is not talking about when the gift will end, the JW leaders proceeded to contradict itself with another comment on the same scripture. Let's see

WT July 15, 1992

Since a babe acts on the basis of limited knowledge and physical development, it can be swayed to and fro, as though being rocked in a cradle. But a man is much more developed physically, has greater knowledge, and usually is not easily swayed. He has abolished childhood thoughts, attitudes, and methods. Similarly, after God’s earthly organization grew out of its infancy, He judged that it did not need the spirit’s gifts of prophecy, tongues, and knowledge. Though present-day members of the congregation, now in its old age, also feel no need for such gifts, they are glad to serve God under the guidance of his spirit."

This article is commenting on verse 11. Here they now said that the scripture is stating when the gift will end, when the church grows out of infancy. They have thus detached the whole point of Paul out of context. Paul had just shown why the gift will cease in the future, because they have partial knowledge. Paul is still continuing with this point by using himself to give object lesson of what he had already said above, just as a babe have partial knowledge, so are those with these spiritual gifts, they will get the perfect knowledge in God's kingdom.

Let's read verses 11, 12;

When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child.  12 For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known."

Did you notice how verse 12 started? for now we see in hazy outline. This words are connecting the point about the child with another illustration of looking at a metal mirror. How can we be sure? Notice verse 12b. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known.". We see here that Paul has again brought himself as the object lesson. It's all about the partial knowledge and it ending in the future, when true christians will see face-to-face as it were.

Surprisingly, the Watchtower, gives this verse 12 a different meaning from verse 11.

In the Insight book, under "face", this is said:

"Comparing the understanding of God’s purpose had by the early Christian congregation with the fuller understanding to be had upon receiving their heavenly reward, and then coming to comprehend the divine purpose in its entirety as prophecy is fulfilled, the apostle Paul said: “For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face to face.”​—1Co 13:12; compare 2Co 3:18; 4:6"

Here they believe that the verse 12 will fulfill in the future kingdom, but verse 11 fulfilled after the first century. It is however clear that all this is about the future. Perhaps they did this inconsistent interpretation so that there supposition that the gift ended with the death of the apostles will have a scriptural footing. This is contextually impossible.

Let's look at the theory of Watchtower that the gift was passed by the apostles laying of hands or during their presence. According to them, after they died, no one had the power to transmit such powers. True, the scriptures shows different places the gift was passed by laying hands of the apostles or during their presence. In fact, in one instance, Simon wanted to pay to have that ability.

But we shouldn't forget that the gift came first at Pentecost. God poured the spirit directly from heaven. Nothing prevents God from doing the same anytime He wishes. Secondly, it was not only the apostles that transmitted the gift. We read:

Acts 9
17 So An·a·niʹas went and entered the house, and he laid his hands on him and said: “Saul, brother, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road along which you were coming, has sent me so that you may recover sight and be filled with holy spirit.”

This is how Paul got his miraculous gifts. There is no other area showing that Paul met the apostles to receive the spirit. So it wasn't only the apostles that transmitted that gift. Our God can use anyone to transmit the gift or He pours the Spirit by Himself.

As to the fact that miraculous work should be happening now, is it not written in Joel, that God will pour His spirit in the last days? If we are in the last days, assuming the gift even ceased, why wouldn't God pour it out again in fulfillment of His word?

Secondly, Rev 11:3-9 spoke of two prophets of God that will come with great miraculous power. JWs says this refers to Rutherford and his cohorts, however, verse 7 says that when they FINISH there witnessing, the beast will make war with them and conquer them. Yet this conquering is said to have happened when Rutherford was still alive, and after the so called conquering, Rutherford was still preaching. When the prophecy clearly says, the conquering happened when they have FINISHED their witnessing. To confirm that the two witnesses did finish their witnessing, after they were resurrected, did they start preaching again? No. The account says they flew to heaven.

Thirdly, we can glean from Matt 7:21,22 that we should have true prophets today.

"Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?"

Speaking about people with miraculous gifts, Jesus says, not everyone. By saying not everyone, Jesus implies that some miraculous workers will genuinely call out to him when he comes back. Some will genuinely say they performed healing in his name and he will not deny them. Is it not logical however, to say that if Jesus is warning about false prophet, it shows that there MUST be true ones? If not, the word " false" makes no meaning.

In summary, there is no scriptural support for cessationism.

Let the screenshots evidences EXPOSE THE FRAUD of PROPHECIES PRACTICED BY CHRISTENDOM which the OP ,Mr Sand2022 supports.

Oga Sand2022, your flawed adventure to discredit JWs can not prevail.

MightySparrow:



Hello Sir. I am just seeing or reading your post on this series for the first time. I will look for the rest.

These people are just deluded In their conceit. Soon 'New Light' would overtake this belief. None of their doctrines or interpretations have been consistent I personally believe that the GB are either sensual, ignorant or dishonest in their interpretation of the scriptures. Years back, they argued that 'forever' has time limit. They have this bad idea that outside their organization, no one can understand the Bible. Yet they commit blunders.

I[b] was arguing this same topic with MaximumSide some months back. His position was no one outside Jews had the gifts off the spirit. I asked him, what happened in Acts of Apostles? The record of the Bible are records of the exploits of the apostles not their converts. Himself as as soldier, I asked him, if the the instructors that teach a particular course were mentioned, does that mean no soldiers were produced? Does that mean none of the soldiers ever went to war?
[/b]
.

Does your Bible new testament reveal the activities of Gentiles believers?
If you get liver Mention the gentiles that performed miracles in your own Bible.

Desist from your shallow,carnal tinted delusions.

MightySparrow:



Their GB has lost it altogether. I was surprised to see some of their doctrines being jettisoned subtly.
When you point their errors to them, they suddenly become dishonest, defending the GB not the truth of the scriptures.

Holy Spirit is real as well as the girls.

1 Corinthians 13:9 did Paul know it all?

Sparrow HYPOCRISY.
Go & clear out the mess in Christendom.

Deluded pervert "oly spirit is real as well as the girls/women" shared by your Pastorpreneurs in the name of crusades.(screenshots proven evidence)

Nah FRAUD of Pastorpreneurs like Benny Hinn & the Olehs/Bolehs dem Sparrow and Mr Sand2022 dey support.

MightySparrow:



This people have stubborn believe in their delusion. They can dodge questions!
I have been asking MaximumSide how David Splain knew as he claimed he is one of the 144000 and his number and tribe.
He kept quiet on it.

I want know if MaximumSide is also one of the 144000 as it is claimed that every member of Governing Body is one.
You see delusion.
I laughed when I watched the man making such statement.



I laughed in JWs paradise's language.

You just confirmed your ignorance of the holy scriptures especially the last book of your Bible -Revelation.

Sparrow no know there's difference between the Israel of old testament & the Israel in Revelation chapter 7:4-8 & chapter 14:1-4.

Sparrow Nah GIBBERISH full your head