₦airaland Forum

tintingz:
This is not the premise the OP presented.

Empiree just wants to derail. I quickly sidelined him.

Saucyxo:
Okay. I have a genuine question. What's there to talk about in being athiest ? Honestly I have alot of athiest friends. And most of them don't care to talk about God. Ever. I do have a couple that I discuss God with simply for educational purposes. For the most part, I understand they dont believe in God so I am respectful in that and vice versa.
To be completely honest with you, some athiests arent like that. You meet alot of athiests who are arrogant in their knowledge. They think it's silly to believe in God and they exude it. I genuinely dont understand why you'd have a complex about something you dont believe in. I've done a tiny bit of research about the people that have been punished (rarely executed; the number I've seen so far is around 10, feel free to dispute) in those liable countries and they honestly just rude. You can believe theres no God and talk about it without being disrespectful. How are you going to be in a STRICT Muslim country and talk trash about their religion ? It's just rude.. I'm not trying to justify it, wrong is wrong is wrong.

As an atheist, I would be less active if my rights were respected.
It is your muslims and Christians that force us atheists to be activists. When muslims call us satanism, pigs, perverts and deny us basic human rights, what are we to do?

Ignorant people usually see atheists as arrogant. Atheists are no where as arrogant as religious people.

Many muslims here know nothing about science, yet they feel knowledgeable enough to say that evolution is false. Is that not arrogance.


Many muslims who have never practiced another religion or atheism will just come and claim that their religion is the best; the perfect way of life. Is that not arrogance?


As an atheist, I have to read a lot about religion so that I can survive. If you are an atheist in a religious country, you must blend in or be cast out as a satanist or a pervert.


You also claim that very few people have been killed for apostasy or atheism. And also the that the atheists were being rude. False!

Just declaring atheism on social media can get you arrested or killed. Take Alexannder Aan for instance was imprisoned just for making arguments why he doesn't believe in God on an atheist Facebook page. This happened in Indonesia.

Another in Saudi Arabia was arrested and sentenced to death for disagreeing with the prophet on Facebook.

150 people were beheaded last year in Saudi. A lot of people who get arrested for atheism do not make the news. And Saudi are not always open with their numbers.

Also, by arguing and debating here on nairaland, a lot of Christians and muslims get to learn about our plight as atheists.

Saucyxo:
Lol. The UK is not a Christian country. The UK is a neutral country partially ruled by the church of England. I think the last survey I read put the UK as one of the least religious countries in the world. And when I say religious, I mean religion would have an influence on the people. We all know homosexuality is not allowed in christianity and abortion is not allowed in christianity. I think the most religious period in the UK is just Christmas and Easter time really. Even Rome isn't religious at all. Lol in Rome its obvious Christianity is a form of art and a tool to make money lol.
If you want a muslim country like that maybe Dubai, Bosnia or Malaysia?

When Christianity was really influence in Europe before the reformation, they didnt even kill you. Youd be so frustrated youd kill yourself. We all know about the Inquisition. I'm sure you remember the the famous Galileo who was condemned by the church for simply disagreeing with them. I'm not trying to say this is right. I'm just trying to show you that this was the situation when christianity was in control. Honestly and truly, Religion doesn't have much power in Europe anymore.

European nations were Christian in the earlier centuries. Yes, they have been secularized and are no more Christian, obviously.

However, the UK still has a lot of Christians. Yet, the UK Christians hardly discriminate against atheists.

The point I was making is that Europe is far more tolerant than the Islamic countries when it comes to atheism.

How then do you preach or do dawah to an atheist when he tells you that he doesn't want to die in an Islamic country?

Saucyxo:
I don't believe the religion advocates for the killing of apostates and atheists. I think that's what happens when we take hadith that may or may not be true and we put them over Quran which is definitely 100% true.

Those laws criminalizing atheism and apostasy were created by Islamic scholars and jurists in those Islamic countries. Who are we to believe? Which Islamic school of thought or interpretation is correct?

Yes, while I agree that there is no punishment for apostasy in the Quran, many use the hadith to arrive at the punishment.

All honest muslims should fight for a change within Islam towards atheists and apostasy. No one should be executed for leaving religion

Empiree:
Now you can understand why they are forbidden to occupy Ard Al-Muqaddasa. The first condition ordained by God for Jews/Israelites to be entitled to the Holy Land is they MUST have faith in God. Which means there is no room for atheism or disbelieve in God especially on the Holy Land. Ard Al-Muqaddasa belong to theists.


Here, we found condemnation of atheism in John 3:18


“There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son.



Psalm 14:1

The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good

Thanks for your contribution. It was out of point as you did not even touch on Islam. That is you did not address Islamic treatment of atheism.

Thanks for your out of point comment.

sino ati ultramane,

please check out my latest thread on atheism and islam

https://www.nairaland.com/5269656/why-islam-afraid-atheism-apostasy

To also bring the issue home, there was the case of Bala Mohammed, an atheist who was locked up in an asylum in Kano because he was an atheist. It took the cries of humanist organisations both locally and internationally to save him.

Tingtinz, here is the story
https://www.nairaland.com/5269656/why-islam-afraid-atheism-apostasy

Saucyxo:
I dont know about all of that.

If you're atheist, how would anyone know ? A majority of my friends are atheist and its not even a topic of discussion ever. They dont believe in God and I do. Thats all. I think it becomes an issue when one feels the need to flaunt what they consider new found knowledge at the detriment of others.

Obviously that's all wrong. But let's be logical here, I dont go to church ranting Jesus is not God. If I don't believe in Jesus, theres no need for me to look at those who do as inferior ya feel me ?

In a Christian country, muslims are less likely to win elections. In a muslim country, Christians are less likely to win elections. Of course, I would want a world that lacks discrimination but everyone wants familiarity.

Honestly, it may be due to my own ignorance so please feel free to share information. I've never heard of anyone attacking without provocation an atheist. Honestly. I dunno maybe its just the news I listen to or the people I surround myself with but when someone says"Im an atheist" and they dont follow it by "believing in God is stupid" then I quite frankly dont know anyone who cares.

Hello,

I have opened a thread where we can discuss about islam and its harsh treatment of athieists
https://www.nairaland.com/5269656/why-islam-afraid-atheism-apostasy


cc tintingz, usermane and empiree

I really want to ask the muslims here why there issue of atheism in islam is so controversial and deadly. If you compare this to the other major Abrahamic faiths, islam is the strictest religion when it comes to atheism and apostasy.

Israel is so secular. There are many non believing and non-practising Jews in Isreal and America. In fact, studies show that about 41 percent of Israeli people are actually openly secular.

In European countries with a christian background, many of the nationals are openly atheists. In the UK, 53% say that they have no religion and about 33% do not believe in God. This is quite similar to many European countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_the_United_Kingdom

However, when it comes to countries with sharia law or a significant majority of muslims, we see atheists being quiet and suppressed. Atheism is illegal and liable for execution in 13 islamic countries
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-religion-atheists/atheists-face-death-in-13-countries-global-discrimination-study-idUSBRE9B900G20131210


In Saudi Arabia, atheism is classified as a terrorist act according to the law
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-declares-all-atheists-are-terrorists-in-new-law-to-crack-down-on-political-dissidents-9228389.html




The point of this thread is to ask muslims on this section to explain and or justify why atheists are maltreated in such a way in muslim countries.

lanrexlan:
My brother, the issue with most of these folks is that they don't have foundational knowledge of many of these things they are discussing seriously. They read about it online and think they have arrived. It is a shame that google has given every damn buddy a say on internet.

Are you an atheist? How many atheists do you know? How did you reach this conclusion?

You just talk any how about atheists and then you turn around to claim that you are respectful to people's beliefs.


Let's take a look at this topic to prove your claim about atheists lacking foundational knowledge of issues. The topic of this discussion is homosexuality and islam.

Unlike you, many atheists here have actually read studies on religion and homosexuality. They have worked and lived with gay people. They compare both secular morality and religious morality.

Please, how many gay people do you know? Have you done research? Do you understand secular morality and philosophy? Have you read Rousseau? Kant? Nietzsche?

sino:
Yeah, and you are too lazy to quote the Qur'an and show me what you have found that I am not willing to share?!

No need.

sino:
They are butchered, their heads on spikes in every street and market place, their eyes plucked out and their blood used for bathing!

I'm sure you do have access to the Qur'an, would't it be nice if you could share what you have found?!

I knew that you could never answer the question.

lanrexlan:
Brother of mine, the thing tire me wallah. I need to reread your post and see if I missed out where the insult was. Simple question and answer. If you asked that question, I would gladly answer cos I don't have anything to hide.

The internet has made it easy for every Tom, dick and harry to have an opinion on issues that they don't even have foundational knowledge on!! Google is the new scholar, rubbish!

Even a mad man and a young child knows that morality is not what these folks are championing for.

Do you even know what morality is?

Islamic morality in the form of sharia is one of the most deficient codifications of morality

sino:
Polytheists.

Very good. Now, how are they treated in the Quran and hadiths?

lanrexlan:
You guys don't get and understand the logic Tintingz is proposing. Lemme break it down for you.

Scenario 1
Proposition 1 (according to tintingz): MUSLIMS are deluded.
Propostion 2: Tintingz's family are MUSLIMS.

From the above propositions, we can deduce logically that tintingz's family are deluded cos according to tintingz himself, ALL muslims are deluded (including myself and my family).

Scenario 2
Proposition 1 (according to tintingz): MUSLIMS consider wife beating, slave trading et al as NORMAL.
Proposition 2: tintingz has muslims in his family.
Analogical logical deduction: Muslims from tintingz family would have engaged in such acts he accused all muslims of since those acts are NORMAL in the Muslim world!

Before you come online and make silly and haste generalisation, consider the effects that come with it. People who live in glass houses don't throw stones!

Is logic hard for you guys? If something is normal in the Muslim world, then bulk (if not all) of muslims should be following and implentimg those things that are considered as norms! If they aren't following it, at least they would be cool with it.

The wife beating matter, the Prophet who got revelation from his Lord NEVER beat any of his wives. We didn't read such in the caliphs and our Imaams lives! Even in the contemporary world of muslim scholars, I haven't seen anyone who beats his wife and justify it with the Quran! Since we have run out of examples, maybe he (tintingz) can help us out with examples of close Muslim relatives of his would have engaged in such norms that he accused the entire Muslim world of! At least, charity begins at home!

Funny thing is that the people who beat their wives don't know about the Quran and those who know and understand the ayah don't beat their wives!




Mock atheists?! Insulting beliefs is different from insulting personalities. I do agree that arguments can get rowdy and people through jibes at one another. But, do atheists have a set of beliefs?! So which beliefs of the atheists are muslims mocking?!

We are here in Islam section, enjoying and discussing about our deen. An atheist comes in and starts to mock and ridicule what he doesn't believe in! Does that makes sense to you?! For example, I don't believe in leprechaun, Santa Claus or FSM, then I open a thread and invite my Muslim brothers. Then we begin to argue and debunk the beliefs of FSM, saying Santa Claus is a sadist, he is bigot and other unprintable words you guys have used on God! But we don't even believe Santa Claus nor leprechaun exist, this is a belief we don't hold! Is that not stupidity?! Why would we arguing something that doesn't exist and we don't believe in?!

Atheists don't believe in God, but most of you guys spend hours and days trying to debunk, ridicule and mock something you don't believe to exist! What do we call that? How do you guys sound to yourself?

You wanna discuss, you discuss. If you wanna mock and ridicule people's beliefs, then don't expect a pat on your back.

All your long epistle of words mean nothing.

There was no need to bring up tintingz family. Many atheists come from religious homes. That doesn't mean that everytime they criticise religion, you refer to their family. For all you know, tintingz family could be westernized secular muslims.

Furthermore, tintingz was not talking about all muslims when it comes to slavery and incest. Not all muslims defend such like Empiree.



As for atheists,it is you muslims (and Christians) that force your religions on us. Do you think that atheists living in the north like sharia law? Do you think atheists like it when they are deemed to be terrorists by Saudi Arabian law?

Just even look at this section, a disgrace to equality. The owner had to create it out of fear of Islamic threats.

sino:
Please show me where I disrespected his family...

You wouldn't see me mock atheist on the religious section or see me create topics there for arguments or for mockery, any form of mockery (which I doubt) would most likely be as a result of an atheist being obnoxious on this section which is always obvious from the responses of most atheists to topics that do not concern them. It is a common saying that "respect is reciprocal"... Yes there are Muslims who do this, argue badly, insult and mock, but that isn't what Islam teaches...

Yeah right.

Please, what is the meaning of mushrikun?

tartar9:
Lol...but slaughtering them like animals and using them for peppersoup is consensual right

Rape and murder are two different areas of criminal law.

Rape revolves around consent

Murder revolves around intent and harm.

sino:
I have no right?! Trivial?! This is ridiculous! I have not insulted his family, I only asked simple questions, are his immediate family Muslims and do they practice any of what he had claimed?! why are you guys taking offense?!

Well I know you guys can't differentiate between criticism and plain insult, mockery and the likes. Your criticism is mainly predicated on finding faults, and no matter how these issues are being presented with effective reasonings, you would never consider, cos you are prejudicial when it comes to religion and in this case, Islam! There are numerous posts from the person you are defending and even on here which are plainly insults, mockery etc.!

FYI, my religion teaches me to respect other people's beliefs even in 'criticism', you will not see me going about other peoples religious topics to start arguing on what their religion should state and how delusional they are believing what they do and making ill-thought references to their revered symbols. Again, my religion teaches me to argue with wisdom, fair preaching and in the best way!

You are definitely right that some Nigerians to have family members who practice different religion, and that should be a guiding principle for us to respect and tolerate others, and if someone feels they are invisible online, it becomes necessary to remind such a person where he is coming from, which is even a prerogative in the Yoruba culture.

My guy, please be honest with yourself. There was no need to bring up his family. You talk about respect and yet you lack the manners that would prevent you from crossing the line to talk about someone's family.


Secondly, there are numerous comments of yours that are insulting atheists. You say you respect beliefs, yet you mock atheists.

Even within your religion, I have seen how your fellow muslims insult pagan and atheists.

Empiree:
Still on "Gay Lesson"


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2216255355096605&id=490858150969676&fs=0&focus_composer=0

Empiree, that labour mp that you think is on your side has killed his career. He has been sanctioned by his own party for his foolishness.

You always look for cretins to side you.

budaatum:
I wonder why you don't ask what world I live in instead of the swift writeoff. Amusing.

Your statement that Emplyers should pay minimum wage of 100k and they should accommodate by increasing revenues is so unrealistic.

You have been eating too much Tesco mushrooms

budaatum:
Holding back? No. Not running efficiently? Yes.

You are not living in the real wotld

budaatum:
Employers! They can raise the money buy increasing revenue.

Are you serious? Were the firms holding back revenue before?

This is a waste of time. A lot of Nigerians cannot put forward a logical argument.

Empiree:
I know i have frustrated you enough Goan rest. Kpele

If only you knew...

Empiree:
why did you guys start talking about "age of consent" only AFTER i brought it up?. What y'all been talking about was anything below 18 is underage. Besides i even refuted that bcuz most of them are not married. Thats the point i kept getting out to you but you diverted all the time. See the screenshots below, i wish i can post the video for you but i deliberate dont want, if you could listen what this judge is saying some sense into these kids, you won't be here speaking so passionately about sex education which pretty much doesnt work in my opinion. Judge doesn't even speak about sex education bcuz she knows it is bullsh!t

Judge is screaming in this video like "y'all just babies having babies". See, these two young guys in the shot below just cant get enough of the young girl (baby mama). Listen, the least system does for them now is counselling.

Receive sense bro.

KoiceReloaded:
The standards of Arabian shows or shows of semitic ethnicity can be pretty high. I enjoyed the The Protector (Turkish), Sacred Games (India), and Fauda (Isreali).

Kai. Ratings can be useless. People usually rate superhero/action TV shows higher.

The protector looks like an unoriginal turkish superhero series from.the trailer.
The protector ranks higher than black lightning. Nonsense.

Empiree:
No, I dropped out nonesense

She of consent in USA is 16 to 18

Receive sense

KoiceReloaded:
Nah, internet ratings usually get it right on TV shows. If it's 3.4/10 on IMDb, with zero reviews on RT, then it's definitely_shit.

My standards are lower because it is an Arab show.

budaatum:
Electronic dustbin of the world. It's because we are so cheap. Poor, rather. Can't afford better because we are paid so little.

Minimum wage, 100k/m, anyone? Are you worth it?

Who will pay 100k for minimum wage?

Empiree:
Not just America. I am simply telling you it is well and alive and that "sex education" actually encourages sex revolution despite recommended precautions. Pills and condoms do fail.

Oga, did you graduate from university?

KoiceReloaded:
Jinn has such a_shit rating that I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Origin narrative is well structured. The main character's backgrounds will be shown, everyone will be suspicious of everyone, alliance will be formed and broken, and in the season finale, all hell will be let loose. The host of the neuro-jacking parasite will be revealed, and I promise you this... you'll be shocked. Sit back, tighten your seatbelt and enjoy the ride.

Shit rating? Jinn is very okay.

Don't listen to the ratings. It is a simple high school show. They tried for an Arab show

KoiceReloaded:
Don't know about Jinn, but Origin from YouTube Red is gripping. It's a whodunit set in a wrecked spaceship, stuck somewhere beyond our solar system.

I'm on episode 2 for origin

I'm on episode 3 for Jinn