₦airaland Forum

MuttleyLaff:
[img]http://media4./media/mmRmDX9Y3Q7NS/200w.gif[/img]
Are you a robot?
If not why are ''Enlighten yourself with this'' repeating yourself after asking you to compare your content
You've a habit which is just as bad as most of the chaps here

dmandy:
But I just proved to you that it is scriptural.... I think the problem with christians is we believe our own dogma is always the best and whoever does not follow me its a candidate of hell. You have made up your mind to believe its not scriptural and whatever I say will not hold water.

If I should ask u... how have u made up ur mind on the following subjects
1. is it scriptural to pray for the dead to rip.
2. to use wedding ring in marriage
3. not to smoke cigarette
4. is it necessary to circumcise a baby, baptise a baby, pay tithe?

your answers will tell u something about choice to or not belive that something is scriptural. When next u study try to be open and accommodating.

Today is sunday... how scriptural is that? I know it is, but most don't know because it is not explicitly written in black and blue. But it is.

Happy sunday

The problem. With Christians is that most don't follow the teaching of God.

What about this scripture:

2Tim 3:16
15and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

So won't going outside the scriptures to establish you own dogma be against this scripture.

Praying to Mary or saints was it a sacred writing?.

You talked about today being Sunday if scriptural: but the issue is discussed in the word. Where?

Roman 14

1Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

5One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone.


So you see, all this talk of whether a day is holy or not is unscriptural.

For the cigarette:

1Cor 6:12
You say, "I am allowed to do anything"--but not everything is good for you. And even though "I am allowed to do anything," I must not become a slave to anything. (NLT).

Jesus also said

matt 15:11
"Hear and understand. 11"It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man."

You see all things needed are in the scripture.

But where do we see praying for the dead or to Mary or the saints. Stick to the word.

MuttleyLaff:
This isnt verse Mark 9:48 but rather it should be Mark 9:47

Not really wanting to do a Priscilla & Aquila-Apollos here nor rain on your parade
#1) You have a good work here but you still ought to compare its contents with what I posted in the below link
https://www.nairaland.com/1923809/lake-fire-hell-what-difference/1#34753696

#2) chikweezy is right, you seem to have taken the soul-sleeping concept too far
#3) Jozzy4 is right, you seem not to understand how Jesus was using a hyperbole with Mark 9:48
#4) You're muddling up Sheol with Hell /Hades which is Greek mythology in origin
and also muddling up Sheol with Gehenna which is a refuse dump site in Jerusalem
#5) Jozzy4 is right about Matthew 13:34-35,
as, Jesus was merely using these parables or Jerusalem's Gehenna or Abraham and Lazarus in Sheol, as allegories to get a message home.
#6) See how Jozzy4 is about having a field day making mockery of what and how you posted it

Lastly for now, food for thought.
How were Moses and Elijah recognised by Peter, James or John
They both existed hundred of years before Peter, James or John were born
- point is, the spirit doesnt need physical mouth to eat, physical eyes to recognise
Peter, James or John's spirit recognised Moses and Elijah,
just like John the Baptist recognised Jesus when they both were in the womb

Enlighten yourself with this
https://www.nairaland.com/2544404/difference-between-hell-sheol-paradise/1#37259527

I just answered some of your questions.

Jozzy4:
Jesus said its a "vision " matthew 17:9 , keep fighting it ? Lol , you dont know what a vision is

That was why I asked you, do you even know what a vision is? Do you know the types of visions? What is an open vision? What Is the difference between a night vision (dream like Daniel had) and an open vision like Peter had? Of course you don't cause you have a lot of learning to do.

, chai ! Kindly show us a scripture that said God have tongue ?

You kindly show us where it says spirits don't have toungues. Wow! I wonder how angels talk through their mouths or even God. Or you don't believe they have a mouth again bah? Lol. Or maybe even eyes to see or a head. I mean why take one out and leave the rest.

Hehehehe , they have tongue , eat bread into the stomach , intestine and later shiit ?

Okay so answer this question, since you believe in saints redeemed bodies in heaven after rapture. Since saints will be in their bodies, are they going to still be going to toilets in heaven? . Oh, they have a soakaway/cesspit in heaven. (Wow, I can see how smart you are). Can you see how you turned on yourself.

Manna, a material substance that decompose and breed worms is called Angels food bcoz its a " bread from heaven" john 6:31-33 , psalm 105:40 .

So let me give you a final blow with the scriptures. . If you like twist it again.

2Cor 12:3
"2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago-- whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows-- such a man was caught up to the third heaven. 3And I know how such a man-- whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows-- 4was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.…"

So the apostle Paul here says he was caught up into paradise, and he couldn't tell the difference if he was in his spirit form or not. Why? could it be that he acknowledged that the form of his spirit is in no way different from his flesh. (In having a toungue, leg, eyes e.t.c.) Did he say "hey guys, I know I was in my spirit form because I discovered I didn't have a toungue or a head" . Or I guess you have more revelations than Apostle Paul...maybe you can enlighten us.

Heb 12:23
22But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to[b] the spirits of the righteous made perfect[/b], 24and to Jesus, the mediator

So I am sure you agree that this was written for people on the earth right. And the writer said when they come to mount Zion (to God's throne in prayer and worship by faith) that also you come to sprits of just men made perfect in heaven. Who are the men, definitely not angels right?. Or maybe the spirits are sleeping and unconscious in heaven.

Eph 3:15
14For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, 15from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name,

You agree we are one body in Christ all baptized in to name of Christ and the family(beloved). So who are the famies in heaven and also the ones on earth?. It can't be angels since they are not baptized into Christ's name.

Heb 12:1
1Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us...

If you read chapter 11 it talks of the men of faith who have gone before us. And the writer trying to encourage us says "see we have a cloud of witnesses cheering us as we run our race" well maybe they are just in the dust sleeping and the writer was tryna deceive us.

Be learned my friend.

onetrack:
OK so she is willing to accept illusory correlations as proof of god. Fine, but I don't accept that as proof. Plus the earth does not seem perfectly designed to me. Rather it is a ball of chaos.

Yea, its not perfectly designed that was why scientists say that if the earth was not slightly tilted as it is that there won't be seasons as we know them and if the earth were to move out of its orbit a few inches there won't be existence of life.

Ya, I get you.

Jozzy4:
Lol , uv jump again , I can see you have no understanding of the jumbo you copy and paste @ OP


Read your bible , what happen on the mount Is a " VISION" Matt 17:9


This exist in Your imaginations .



Really ? How many christians actually pluck out their sinful eyes and throw it away .

Meanwhile , check the underlined , our two eyes follow us into the grave ; its not casted into any imaginary hell.

Dug the grave , and you will find it there



Why did Abraham tell the rich man who was in hell
about Moses and other prophets who where on earth at
the time preaching to people?
I mean this guy is in hell burning right, and he wants
someone to go up there and preach to his brothers who
are on earth. So tell me, will you be able to preach after
the final judgment when souls have been thrown into the
lake of fire?.
And Jesus Himself is the one that tells this story.
Think man, think.


He is exactly what you call him @ bold , a rich MAN , not a rich ghost .

" MAN is from the dust, and to dust MAN will return" , and if you think the guy is a spirit , TELL US : HOW COULD A SPIRIT HAVE TONGUE ? For what purpose ? Do they drink and thirst ?

Its high time you guys grab the meaning of Matthew 13:34,35 .

I think you are JW. So I have obviously been wasting time with you.

What is the meaning of vision Mr. Man? So Jesus was communication with people that are expected to be soul sleeping?

Ewoooo!

Why didn't He just have a vision of an Angel or the Father appearing to Him?

The word says Moses and Elijah talked with Him, but they were soul sleeping abi?

How was it that Peter, James and John all saw Jesus's vision?

So spirits do not have tongue, where did you get that? So right now God that is in heaven does not have a toungue abi?

Angels are ministering spirits but they eat food.(for scripture says that the Israelites in the wilderness ate angels food which was manna) So without a toungue , how will they be able to taste food.

Think before you make an argument. Make it hard for me to reply you man.

WizyTechs:
Are you a learner

The guy is obviously a learner.

2. Similarly, when I need direction for a decision, he gives it. I believe that God cares about our decisions. I believe he has a plan for our lives, that he cares about who I marry, what kind of job I have, and some decisions smaller than that. I don't believe he cares what toothpaste I buy, or lots of mundane decisions. But decisions that will affect my life or what he wants to accomplish through my life...I think he cares.

When has God given me clear direction?

One time I needed to decide about a trip to the Middle East. There was risk involved, and I was willing to go only if God wanted me to go. It was important to me that I knew what he wanted.

Two different times I asked God about a job. Both times his leading on it was so clear, that anyone watching would have concluded the same. Let me try one thin slice of an example.

During my senior year of college, I had decided to take a job with a Christian organization after graduation, that would require a move to California.

It was Christmas break, and I was now visiting my parents. One evening, I was alone and thinking through a long list of friends. I was wondering who I could talk into moving to California with me to be roommates. One person named Christy, came to mind, who had already graduated and settled in a job in Iowa. I thought she'd be the perfect roommate, but I hadn't talked to her in several months. Just 30 minutes later, at my parents home, Christy calls me on the phone.

Her first sentence was, "I heard you are taking a job with this Christian organization." I was floored because I had only told one friend, in Ohio.

Her next statement was, "Ok, I've got the pots and pans and dishes." I said, "WHAT?!" She was moving to the same town in California and was calling to see if I would room with her.

Ok, so you see my point.

You might ask, why such a big deal, to even need God's help in this decision? I knew that my parents would be completely opposed to this job. I thought it might cost me my relationship with my parents forever. So it was not a light decision. I asked God to guide me toward what he wanted. And he did. There were about ten other events related to this job, just as clear.

Other reasons I still believe in God...

3. In terms of explanations about life--why we're here, what the purpose is, what is important in life, what to value or strive for--God has better answers than anything I've ever read anywhere. I have studied multiple philosophies and religions and other life approaches. What I read in the Bible, what I see from God's perspective, all the pieces of the puzzle fit.

There is still a lot I'll read in the Bible and close the Bible saying, "I don't get it." So I don't mean to suggest I fully understand everything in the Bible. Instead, I'm saying that life only makes sense from the perspective of what God has revealed. It's like reading the operating manual to life on earth, only we are not left to merely follow the manual. The inventor is explaining to us how it all works, and then offers to personally guide us through it, on a daily basis.

4. The intimacy with God is deeper than intimacy with any human being. I say that married, with two children, and tons of very close friends. His love is perfect. He's incredibly gracious. He takes me right where I'm at, and as I said, speaks to me. He intervenes with actions that leave me amazed as the observer. He is not a belief or doctrine. I see him act in my life.

5. He has done more with my life than I would have done on my own. This is not a statement of inferiority or lack of self confidence. I'm speaking in terms of accomplishments that far exceeded what I ever had in mind. He provides ideas, direction, solutions, wisdom, and better motives than I could aspire to on my own.

Well, there is more, but I think that gives you enough. I'm not sure any of it is believable to you, but I've been as honest as I know how to be.



Source: http://www.everystudent.com/wires/atheist.html

My Experience, Part 2 – Further Evidence of God

Since that time, now that I've been a Christian for a number of years----why do I now believe in God? What reasons do I have for continuing to believe in God?

I'm not sure any of these are going to be believable to you. But I'll try to put that concern aside and be candid with you. Previously my questions were about God's existence. After beginning a relationship with God, I saw additional evidence that God is real. Such as...

1. When I have questions, concerns, or would like insight on a matter, God speaks to me through the Bible. What he shows me is always perfectly suited to my question, and a better, more satisfying answer than I expected. Here's an example.

One day, my schedule, deadlines, and obligations were crawling up my neck and tightening their hold. You know that feeling when you're so overwhelmed, you don't know what to do first?

So I got out a piece of paper and pen, and asked God: "Just tell me what you want me to do, and I'll do it." I was fully prepared for shouldering 100% responsibility, and was basically asking God to just set the priorities, tell me how to approach it all, and I would.

I then opened my Bible and immediately read where Jesus was talking with a man who was blind. Jesus was asking him, "What do you want me to do for you?"

I read it again. Jesus asked: "What do you want me to do for you?" Rather amazed, I picked up my pen and began writing an entirely different list...to God. This, I have found, is characteristic of God. Reminding us that he is there. That he cares, and he's capable.

I choose that example because it's brief. But I could cite hundreds of examples where I was asking God a question and he perfectly, thoroughly answered me. It probably is the characteristic of God that I most appreciate and value--that he is willing to answer my questions.

This isn't something I learned from other Christians. It's just how my relationship with God operates. I ask a question, with an attitude that I really want to give him freedom to tell me whatever he wants to....to correct my thinking, to point out an area in my life that isn't right, to show me where I'm not trusting him, whatever. And he always graciously speaks to me.

I concluded that the evidence for God was so strong that it made more sense to believe in God than to believe he wasn't there. Then I had to act on that conclusion.

I knew that just intellectually concluding God existed, was way too light. It would be like deciding...airplanes exist. Faith in an airplane means nothing. However, if you need to get somewhere and an airplane is the way, you have to decide to act and actually get on the plane.

I needed to make the decision to actually talk to God. I needed to ask him to come into my life.

After a few hours of thought I addressed God, "Ok you win. I ask you to come into my life, and you may do with it whatever you'd like." (It seemed reasonable to me, that since God exists, God had every right to influence and direct my life, if he wanted to.)

I went to bed and the next morning wondered if God was still there. And honestly, I kind of "sensed" that he was. One thing I knew for sure. I immediately had a huge desire to get to know this God whom I now believed in.

I wanted to read the Bible. When I did, it seemed that God was spelling out who he is and how he viewed this relationship with him. It was amazing. What really surprised me is how often he talked about his love. I hadn't expected that. In my mind, I was simply acknowledging God's existence. I had no expectations of him, but as I read the Bible, he chose to communicate his love to me. That was a surprise.

Now, my basic, skeptical nature was still there. The first few months or year, I would ask myself, "Am I really believing in God? And, why am I?" And I would methodically review five objective reasons why I believed God existed. So my "faith" in God did not rest on feelings, but on facts, on reasons.

To me, it's like the foundation of a building. The facts/reasons support my faith. It's like someone driving across the Golden Gate Bridge. They can feel whatever they'd like about the bridge. But it's the construction/design/materials of the bridge itself that allows them to safely get from one end to the other. In the same way, the objective reality of God--the logical, historical, scientific reasons to believe in his existence, are important to me. There are people who don't seem to need that. But I hate being fooled, and I have little regard for wishful thinking. The substantiating reasons for God's existence mattered to me.

By Marilyn Adamson

It seemed to bother religious people when I'd ask them, "How do you know that God exists?"

Perhaps they wondered about my motives. Or maybe they had no idea how to answer. Most of their responses were, "Well, you just know."

I wasn't trying to be difficult. But I certainly did not "just know." And I was hoping someone did!

After many months of this, I thought, "Here are the people who say they believe in God, but no one knows why!" It was like learning the truth about Santa Claus. It seemed obvious that God was completely fabricated. Maybe some people needed to believe in God but clearly there was no proof. No objective evidence. I came to the most stark conclusion...God did not actually exist.

I held this belief for years, not expecting it to ever change. But then I met someone who caused me to become interested in the possibility of God. She was caring, kind, and very intelligent. It bothered me that someone that intelligent could believe in God.

She talked about God like he was her closest friend. She was convinced he deeply loved her. I knew her life well. Any concern she would take to God, trusting him to work out a way or care for her in some way. She would tell me, quite candidly, that she was merely praying that God would act upon her concerns. For over a year, I regularly saw what seemed to be answers to her prayers. I watched her life through a myriad of circumstances, and her faith in God was unwavering.

So, I wanted to believe in God on one hand, because I admired her life and her love for others. But I couldn't believe in something against my intellect, against my better judgment. God did not exist. A nice idea, but that was all. Wanting something to be true, doesn't make it true.

During this time I was developing a personally built philosophy.

I tried something that I'm not sure many people do. Every few weeks, I would study a particular philosopher's take on life ...Nietzsche, Hume, Dostoevsky, Sartre, Plato, etc. and then try to apply it to my own lifeI was looking for the perfect, workable philosophy for life. I found over and over, that either their philosophies seemed lacking, or were too impractical to actually implement. But I kept searching.

I was challenging my friend with every question that came to mind about God. I would find myself writing out questions late in the evening. This went on for well over a year. One day she handed me a book that briefly answered questions like, is there a God; is Jesus God; what about the Bible. It presented facts. No comments like, "you have to believe."

I saw some evidence for God that was solidly logical. The parts particularly convincing to me were the chemical properties of water and the earth's position to the sun. It was all too perfectly designed, too perfectly put together. My faith in "nothing behind it all" seemed weaker than the possibility of God. I had fewer reasons to be certain of nothing, and more reasons to conclude that God might be there.

I then encountered a situation that fully challenged my current philosophy on life. What I had been putting my faith in proved to be completely insufficient. It shocked me to see that I was at a loss for an approach to life that was fully reliable. However, the situation resolved itself and I moved ahead. I have a pretty steady personality. Throughout my life, I never really felt "needy." No on-going crisis. No big gaps or struggles. And certainly nothing I felt guilty about.

But the concept of God was something I couldn't get off my mind....was he there? does he exist? maybe there's a God.....

One night I was talking to my friend again, and she knew I had all the information I needed. She knew that I had run out of questions to ask. Yet I was still trying to debate. In one clear, abrupt moment, my friend turned to me and said, "You know, I can't make this decision for you, and God's not going to wait forever."

And I immediately knew she was right. I was playing around with a very important decision. So I went home and decided that I was going to decide. I was going to either ask God to come into my life, or I was going to end the subject forever and never allow myself to consider the possibility of God again. I was tired of dealing with this decision. I was tired of thinking about it.

So, for the next three or four hours, I reviewed everything I had read and observed. I evaluated it all

(to be contd.)

So how does all this disapprove the existence of God

Even Jesus Himself was against religion.

freecocoa:
How does this prove anything? And how is it related to what's being discussed here?

Is atheism a religion? Is there any book or guide on how to be atheist?

Are you alright at all?

It shows you dont even understand what you stand for.

Let me help you. Is atheism a religion like you said? Well what is a religion?:

personal beliefs or values: a set of strongly-held beliefs, values, and attitudes that somebody lives by
Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Or don't you have your own personal beliefs and values? Or your mind and reasoning is just blank

Secondly,

Is there any guide for atheists?

Have you heard of- The Atheist's Guide to Reality: Enjoying Life without Illusions 1st Edition (a book strongly held in high regard by your fellows)

So, I ask you, how doesn't this prove anything?

Jozzy4:
You gat no prove that jesus was spiritually dead .

Guy , We have a spiritually dead nature because we are conceived in sin , is Jesus conceived in sin ?

A sinless man is spiritually dead ?

(Romans 3:21–22). Through our faith in Christ, the righteousness of God is given to us. This is called “imputed” righteousness. To impute something is to ascribe or attribute something to someone. When we place our faith in Christ, God ascribes the perfect righteousness of Christ to our account so that we become perfect in His sight. “For our sake he made him [Jesus] to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Not only is Christ’s righteousness imputed to us through faith, but our sin is imputed to Christ.

So from this how do we become righteous in our spirits, where we conceived in righteousness for us to be righteous and was Jesus also conceived in sin? Then how did that exchange come about?

I keep giving you scriptures and you keep giving me your own opinions.

Go and do your research on atonement and come back.

chikweezy:
You seem to have taken this soul-sleeping concept too far. Na u suppose ansa d question. No be u talk sey peeps dey Hell in temporary torment. You should realise that a lot changed spiritually after the death of Jesus Christ. Yes, Hell exists and is different from lake of fire. However, Hell does not apply to people that died after Jesus, because 'after death is judgement for them' - eternal life or damnation. Hell is for those that died before Christ..(no reference though just opinion). In the fullness of time, they will be resurrected and judged according to their works. Remember, in Colossians 1:18 - Jesus is the first born from the dead. There was no hope of resurrection for pple that died before Him. God is indeed Just.

Does it make sense to you that after Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus on the mount and later Jesus rose up from the grave, that God went and told them in Paradise that

"Okay, guys, Jesus has paid the price, now I want all of you to leave here and go and sleep in your bodies in the grave (that is if their bodies where not totally mutilated) till the day He comes back to the earth" I mean why don't He just leave them to continue enjoying?

And you see you are just stating your opinions like you said.

Jozzy4:
Man, keep running in circles .

Lie @ underlined, Jesus wasnt conceive in sin , not by sexual intercourse , he didnt inherit sin , therefore has no spiritually dead nature

Chai! shake my head for you man.

Has anyone in this galaxy ever said Jesus was conceived in sin?

That was why I said you didn't know the meaning of atonement. Go and do a research.

Jozzy4:
Has it happened ?




Hades refer to the " grave" of earth , you wont be in Hade's if you die in the SEA . man




Hell is fire abi ? And fire will be cast into another fire , abi? Does it make sense to you ?

Okay,

Does it make sense to you that after Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus on the mount and later Jesus rose up from the grave, that God went and told them in Paradise that

"Okay, guys, Jesus has paid the price, now I want all of you to leave here and go and sleep in your bodies in the grave (that is if their bodies where not totally mutilated) till the day He comes back to the earth" I mean why don't He just leave them to continue enjoying?

If there is no fire in hell, then why did Jesus say:

Mark 9:48 "If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED. "For everyone will be salted with fire.…"

Why did Abraham tell the rich man who was in hell about Moses and other prophets who where on earth at the time preaching to people?

I mean this guy is in hell burning right, and he wants someone to go up there and preach to his brothers who are on earth. So tell me, will you be able to preach after the final judgment when souls have been thrown into the lake of fire?.

And Jesus Himself is the one that tells this story.

Think man, think.

Jozzy4:
Dont be scared , am a Beliver



Again: None of this verses say jesus is a sinner , so how could he be spiritually dead ?

Then I see where your problem is.

Where is the root of sin? The flesh or the spirit?

Do you even know the meaning of atonement? no I guess not.

Btw. when a baby is born, is the spirit of the baby spiritually dead or alive? If you say alive then you contradict the scriptures.

When ppl say unbelievers are spiritually dead, is it because of stealing,murder, lying e.t.c. or because of who they are in the spirit? or why is it one needs to be born again? is it of the spirit or flesh? why is it when when after being born again commits a sin, he is not considered spiritually dead?

If you think sin is all about committing some immoral acts, then why is it that "good" people who don't do such but don't ever get born again will still go to hell? Remember it is said doing good works will not save anyone.

Why? because of the spiritually dead nature in them which can't stand in the presence of God.

When Jesus said "you are of your father the devil..." how is it that the devil was their father? was it a spiritual birthing or a physical one?

So if Jesus never committed sins(i.e the immoral acts) but took our sin (the personality of sin. Who we are by nature of birth) and bore it. Then why do you think He didn't experience the spiritual death?

freecocoa:
What are you talking about? How don't atheists agree on the same things?

Jesus is originally jew btw.

In case you don't know there are 17 kinds of Atheism with different schools of thought.

1. A gnostic atheist not only believes there are no gods, he also claims to know there are no gods.
2. An agnostic atheist doesn’t believe in gods, but doesn’t claim to know there are no gods.

3. A negative atheist merely lacks a belief in gods. He is also called a weak atheist or an implicit atheist.
4. A positive atheist not only lacks a belief in gods, but also affirms that no gods exist. He is also called a strong atheist or an explicit atheist.


5. A broad atheist denies the existence of all gods: Zeus, Thor, Yahweh, Shiva, and so on.
6. A narrow atheist denies the existence of the traditional Western omni-God who is all-good, all-knowing, and all-powerful.

7. An unfriendly atheist believes no one is justified in believing that gods exist.
8. An indifferent atheist doesn’t have a belief on whether or not others are justified in believing that gods exist.
9. A friendly atheist believes that some theists are justified in believing that gods exist.

10. A passive atheist doesn’t believe in god but doesn’t try to influence the world in favor of atheism.
11. An evangelical atheist tries to persuade others to give up theistic belief.
12. An active atheist labors on behalf of causes that specifically benefit atheists (but not necessarily just atheists). For example, he strives against discrimination toward atheists, or he strives in favor of separation of church and state.
13. A militant atheist uses violence to promote atheism or destroy religion. (Often, the term “militant atheist” is misapplied to non-violent evangelical atheists like Richard Dawkins. But to preserve the parallel with the “militant Christian” who bombs abortion clinics or the “militant Muslim” suicide bomber, I prefer the definition of “militant atheist” that assumes acts of violence.)
-

14. A religious atheist practices religion but does not believe in gods.
15. A non-religious atheist does not practice religion.


16. A closet atheist has not yet revealed his disbelief to most people.
17. An open atheist has revealed his disbelief to most people.

dolphinheart:
No you have not answered the questions sir.
Where does the bible say the spirit goes after death.

Does the bible say the spirit die?.

My question is, when did that your spirit enter ur form in flesh.
The scripture you quoted said nothing about ur spirit.

What does the bible say happens to you when you die ? Does the bible say you lose consciousness?

Okay,Okay,

Lets trace our steps back. What point are you trying to drive at? cause I have been debating with so many ppl I dont even remember why we even started this debate.

What are we trying to reason at now?

Jozzy4:
She destroyed your argument .

2 things are right From her posts

1) if jesus is spirit living in flesh , then only the flesh he put on died , while he himself didnt die ? Reason , she is trying to let you think logically .

2) if jesus died a spiritual death , he is a sinner . You and I know that spiritually dead is used to describe sinners .

which camp are you? Atheist or believer?

So yes you are right.

1. When you answer the question I posed up there, then I will know how to answer your question according to your perspective.

2. Yes Jesus became sin.

@ Cor 5:21 "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

Is 53:12 "Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

Rom 4:25 "He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification."

Rom 8:3 "For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,"

So to answer your question, yes He became sin. He became as a sinner. Even though it wasn't His own sin:

Is 53:6 "But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him

That was why He experienced all the forms of death.

So how did she destroy my arguement again?

@MuttleyLaff

Why does thou waste thy time?

You will end up just going in circles and not reach anywhere with her.

MizJanet:
You have just proved the point . Death is a loss of consciosness



Lol @ underlined , only his useless flesh dies While the real jesus himself escapes death .



, cant stop laughing . But your bible always paint sinners as spiritually dead , isnt it ?

Wow , you just proved jesus is a sinner too for dying spiritual

Loool.

It's obvious you have no concrete argument again because I just dissected the scriptures for you.

So as a result you've resorted to assumptions and absurd claims.

Don't worry I understand.

And for all you wrote up there, I would have dissected them once again for you, but seeing I will just be talking to a hardened heart who is bent on twisting things to your favor, I put my pen down.

sukkot:
nah dude. it will happen. my prior predictions were made when i was halfway in training. this prophesy is made now that i am fully trained. ANGELS IN TRAINING. yes angels get celestial training.

Okay, so now that you claim to be fully trained, lets see what will happen .

I hope you wont say you have to go get an advanced professional training later.

MizJanet:

read what you wrote up there , confuse man . Thats what happen when a lie is been fabricated . It has to be twisted and twisted like u av done above .

.......................

An average christian admit the statement "Flesh DIE " means died , it decays and cease to exist , unconscious .

That agrees with the meaning of death . That simply shows you people know the meaning of death but only decide to twist .

MY QUESTION : did Jesus died a physical or spiritual death ? Keyword " sacrifice" .

Lets start from there
Answer ...

What is you problem in understanding what I wrote up there? Yes the flesh dies (the brain is part of the flesh and thereby the consciousnes it gives is lost). I told you "from the same scriptures there are two types of death-The Physical and Spiritual. The spiritual death means separation and not loss of consciousness. And I gave you scriptures to support it.

Now for your question:

Jesus died both of the deaths. The physical (flesh) on the cross and the spiritual (God forsaken Him and Him going to hell).

Gal 3:13: "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.""

Eph 1:19-20"....and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,"

Now look at this:

Col 3: "Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above,......"

......For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory."

So from that, what can we say? Is it talking of a physical death or a spiritual death. Why will this scripture be written for those that are physically dead, how are they going to be able to read it?

sukkot:
like i said, get ready for destruction. AUGUST 29TH

SMH

So if this doesn't happen, hope you won't say it has been postponed.

MizJanet:

@ JeromeJnr

Stop this lies

Death is death , total opposite of life .

An evidence that you religiotard guys are bunch of liers is the fact that you say " THE FLESH DIE" , in that context you understand that death is death , it dies . It cease to exist

We have now seen the true meaning of death

............

You said the real you is your spirit , and you are saying it cant die or cease to exist .

MY QUESTION : How could you claim Jesus die for your sins , since the real person called Jesus is a spirit that never dies ?

Give us proof there is no spirit and death is the end? Have you died before for you to make such a conclusion?

You base all your points on assumptions.

And for your question: from scriptures there are two kinds of death:

The spiritual and the Physical.

The physical is death of the flesh and the spiritual is separation from the life and presence of God.

The problem is you think in you limited understanding that death is only a loss of consciousness. But Jesus was separated from the Father for a while. That's why He cried on the cross that the Father had forsook Him and as a result He went down to hell. (Too deep for you I know).
So yes the spirit never dies(loose consciousness) but can die (be separated from God).
That's why in the book of revelations those in the lake of fire are considered to have undergone the second death.(they are conscious but totally separated from God forever)

E,g. Genesis -God said to Adam, the day you eat of this fruit, you shall surely die. Well did he physically die?

menesheh:
It is a myth because those claims don't conform with reality. Those claims violates the law of nature.


Your own question.
If you are presented with two stories, let's say, a claim that turtle had sex with an elephant and a claim that an alien kidnapped a woman in a farm, how do you distinguished between facts and fantasy?

So what is reality? How in your own limited understanding do you know what reality is?

Have you gone ound the world and done a questionnaire to all the living to find out if they have found a way to violate the law of nature using the supernatural? No you havent, cause all you do is sit at one place and make assumptions.

For the second question: Something becomes fact when you can prove it.
How do we know if the alien kidnapping was real or not? How do you know if aliens exist or not? You can't prove aliens don't exist, why? Because of insufficient info or knowledge In Regards to that. Therefore you can't even say aliens are a myth.

My point: You don't call something a myth because you've not experience it urself. You first have to prove that other ppls experiences are not real before you jump to conclusions.

Jozzy4:
Jumbo jumbo as usual

Simple question: What is Resurection ?

To rise from the dead.


BTW. Before we go further, answer this question:

If all the dead now are just soul sleeping, then what is the purpose of hell? Since we know hell/hades is different from the lake of fire. (Except you don't know that)

Is hell empty? Why will it also be cast into the lake of fire at the end.

freecocoa:
Because the religion is man made, and you know how humans are.

How do you expect a bunch of old men on drugs to all agree on the same thing?

Why don't you explain to us how Christianity is man made.

Atheists too don't agree on the same things, so why should they be taking with seriousness?

menesheh:
That's what happens when a cook-up story is not from one source, merging ancient Jewish culture and ancient Roman one. The bible is a collections of books containing myths of different cultures and backgrounds which was written and rewritten by anonymous authors with no originals. How do you expect people relying on such book to not get confused and disunited.

Why don't you tell us how it is a myth.