₦airaland Forum

rottennaija:
The verses are still on the same issue of new covenant

rottennaija:
I think we need to be in the same page on what we are talking about. We are talking about the new covenant, not just any covenant. The covenant you referred to is one which Jesus made with his loyal disciples for being loyal to him. He promised them the same kingdom his father promised he. He promised they will sit on 12 thrones and judge the 12 tribes of Israel. (Interestingly, you hardly mention the 12 thrones or 12 tribes of Israel)


I am talking of a new covenant. Emphasis is on the word new covenant.

The word covenant will always have the same Greek rendering. It will still be the same word and the same Greek rendering. So, that's not the bone of contention.

I am referring you to the "new covenant." The expression new covenant occurs 4 times in the latest version of New World Translation.
In Jer 31:31, Lu 22:20, 1co 11:24, 2co 3:6, Heb 8:8,13; 9:15;12:24. All the above listed scriptures refers to the same covenant that leads to forgiveness of sins.


Similarly, In New Living Translation, the expression occurs in the following verses.




The point I am making is! There is a new covenant, which is for sins to be forgiven and which includes all who takes up the offer to exercise faith in Jesus. It's this new covenant that I keep mentioning that it is for purpose if forgiveness of sins. Without it, no such forgiveness is possible and without the forgiveness, we cannot be made right with God.

In the Lu 22 :28-30 account, Jesus is dealing with something very different. The promised he made them or the covenant he made with them is because their loyalty. So, he promised them sits in thrones. 12 sits and to judge the 12 tribes of Israel. Also, probably you have not noticed that in the parallel account in Mt, the promise of the kingdom is in Mt 19:28, whereas the new covenant is in Mt 26:28. While the Luke account tends to mix things up in the same chapter. Mt follows a better order and arrangement. However, the two events are unrelated.

Jesus 12 apostles will be included in the new covenant, because their sins are also forgiven. But it's not just 12 people that their sins are to be forgiven, the whole world, who takes advantage of the ransom sacrifice and faith in Jesus Christ.

Now, if you examine the Greek scriptures, there are many occurrences of the word covenant and its gonna have the same Greek work for it. I hope we are clarify.

rottennaija:
Read what is below

rottennaija:
We are not going to be jumping from one issue to another. Let's face one. We are talking of the new covenant for now

rottennaija:
I have noticed something about all these Jws. The Bible is really specific in the new covenant, that it's for the forgiveness of sins. Compare Je 31:32-35 with Mt 26:28.

Jeremiah 31:31- 34

"The day will come," says the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. This covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and brought them out of the land of Egypt. They broke that covenant, though I loved them as a husband loves his wife," says the Lord. "But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day," says the Lord. "I will put my laws in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their family, saying, 'You should know the Lord.' For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will already know me," says the Lord. "And I will forgive their wickedness and will never again remember their sins."


St. Matthew 26:27, 28
And he took a cup of wine and gave thanks to God for it. He gave it to them and said, " Each of you drink from it, for this is my blood, which seals the covenant between God and his people. It is poured out to forgive the sins of many.


In both cases of this prophecy and its fulfillment, it is explicitly stated that the new covenant was for the forgiveness of sins. Jeremiah mentioned that it also includes God's law written in the heart of his people among other things.

But in all these, when they are talking of this covenant, they have refused to even mention that the new covenant is for the forgiveness of sins. Without the new covenant, no forgiveness of sins is possible and it is sealed by the blood of Jesus.

Let me also add! When you consider the parallel account of Jesus promise to his disciples for a kingdom, he mentioned that its because they have given up everything to follow him, the kingdom promised by his father is theirs as well.

St. Matthew 19:27 - 29
Then Peter said to him, "We've given up everything to follow you. What will we get out of it?" And Jesus replied, " I assure you that when I, the Son of Man, sit upon my glorious throne in the Kingdom, you who have been my followers will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or property, for my sake, will receive a hundred times as much in return and will have eternal life.

St. Luke 22:28 - 30
You have remained true to me in my time of trial. And just as my Father has granted me a Kingdom , I now grant you the right to eat and drink at my table in that Kingdom. And you will sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


For the disciples of Jesus to have their sins forgiven, they need to be a part of the new covenant. It's not just them, for the whole world to have their sins forgiven, they need the new covenant sealed by Jesus blood.

Jesus also promised the disciples who have been loyal to him of kingdom. The same kingdom his father has promised him. That is what Lu 22:28-30 is about.

rottennaija:
Please come again. I think I am lost in your explanations and should include the scriptures that support your points

achorladey:
Jessicha: U will understand when you answer this.

Achorladey: I hope I do eventually.

Jessicha: Since those in the new covenant will be Kings , are those over whom they rule over not excluded from the new covenant?

Achorladey: So what you are saying in ESSENCE is because some will RULE AS KINGS with JESUS CHRIST makes them the KEY and ONLY PARTY to the NEW CONVENANT.

To answer your question.....ARE THOSE WHOM THEY RULE OVER NOT EXCLUDED FROM THE NEW COVENANT?

NO, is my answer!

Now you see why I don't understand your position.

Jessicha: After responding to that. U will grab it better

Achorladey: I have responded to your question but I still don't grab it.

rottennaija:
Also, I asked you.

Didn't you see that among what those in the new covenant will enjoy will be their sins forgiven?

God's law written in their hearts? No one telling them to know Jehovah, for their will all know him?

So, let me guess can correctly, since you are not in the new covenant, you don't enjoy this privileges?

When Jesus spoke of his disciples as sitting on thrones, to judge the twelve tribes of Israel, it is recorded in Lu 22:30. The parallel account is in Mt 19:28. Both accounts has nothing to do with the promise of the new covenant.

In Lu 22 :30, the disciples where arguing among themselves who would be the greatest in the kingdom of God. Jesus mentioned many things, telling then how people in the world order others around. But he said among them, the greatest should be least and leaders must be servants (v26, 27)

Then showing them how different he is from world leaders, he mentioned they have been loyal to him and whatever the father has given him, he will also give them. He promised them "St. Luke 22:28 - 30" You have remained true to me in my time of trial. And just as my Father has granted me a Kingdom, I now grant you the right, to eat and drink at my table in that Kingdom. And you will sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

The same is found in Mt 19:28 where Peter asked him of their reward after living everything to follow him. There he said " St. Matthew 19:28, " I assure you that when I, the Son of Man, sit upon my glorious throne in the Kingdom, you who have been my followers will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

If you observe, the account in Mt had nothing to do with the new covenant. It is only in the gospel of Luke that you find both (new covenant and sitting on thrones) in the same chapter. So, why are they not in the same chapter in Mt but in Luke?

Also, if the sitting on thrones is literal, then it's gonna be
12 thrones
they will also eat and
feed at the tables in God's kingdom.

I didn't object that those in the new covenant will sit on thrones, because the 12 apostles of Jesus were obviously included in the new covenant (their sins are forgiven.

However, it's not only them that will sit on thrones. (The Bible mentions of the 24 elders who also sits on 24 thrones.)

Moreso, I keep repeating, the new covenant includes all true Christians because it is only those who are in the new covenant that their sins are forgiven. God's law is written in their heart and they do not need the law code to tell them to love Jehovah or show them how to love Jehovah and Jesus. It's in their heart to love Jesus and Jehovah.

Maximus69:
Great!
My baptism comes up by June,Tatime and i were together at Daluwon few weeks ago.
So i'll find a way to invite you, meanwhile it's taking place @ Otta!

achorladey:
Jessicha: Find it hard reading your post.

Achorladey: Fine!

Jessicha: There is only one new covenant and those in it will rule as Kings, any issue ??

Achorladey: Only ONE new COVENANT. Okay I thought as much.

Jessicha: Jesus mediate for those in the new covenant. Heb12:24

Achorladey: The only ONE NEW CONVENANT.

Here is hebrews 12:24........and JESUS the MEDIATOR of a NEW COVENANT, and the SPRINKLED BLOOD, which speaks in a better way than Abel’s blood.

Jesus indeed is the MEDIATOR of the ONLY ONE NEW COVENANT.

Jessicha: He also mediate for all men - 1Tim 2:5

Achorladey: This was never in doubt the Scripture you cited states clearly that ONLY ONE MAN mediate between all men and GOD.


The final issue I have here is the comment of yours below in response to rottennaija

at 3:33pm today......

If they rule, they they must rule over SOME ... THAT is SENSE TELLING YOU and I(Jessicha), his mediator of a new covenant ISN'T for EVERYONE.

I still don't get this your position, from what I can see JESUS MEDIATES for all but the ONE and ONLY NEW CONVENANT is not for ALL. I simply don't get this at ALL.

This covenant under discussion here is his body and blood I want to believe, is it for ONLY THOSE who will RULE WITH HIM AS KINGS or for THE WHOLE MANKIND.

Luke 22: 20.....Also, he did the same with the cup after they had the evening meal, saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in your behalf.

rottennaija:
Revelation 5:10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth."

They are reigning while still on the earth.

achorladey:
Jessicha @ 3:33 pm April 22

Jessicha: If they rule, they they must rule over some ... That is sense telling YOU and I (Jessicha), HIS MEDIATOR of a NEW COVENANT isn't for everyone

Achorladey: rottennaija has stated clearly that JESUS CHRIST is his MEDIATOR but this statement of YOURS HERE is CONFUSING, can you explain further and are there TWO NEW CONVENANT?

I have a moniker that you can clearly SEE. If you want to respond please do respond. You don't know who it is and your respond and request for quoting you properly.

rottennaija:
Refer to earthly subject in the Bible?

rottennaija:
@bolded, don't rush. I'm writing many things.

rottennaija:
Focus on your driving of you can't see the response. Before you say someone made you have accident. Didn't you see yes?

Didn't you see that among what those in the new covenant will enjoy will be their sins forgiven? God's law written in their hearts? No one telling them to know Jehovah, for their will all know him?


Was it only sitting on thrones that you saw? Didn't you see them sitting on thrones and judging the 12 tribes of Israel?

achorladey:
Jessicha @ 3:33 pm April 22


If they rule, they they must rule over some ... That is sense telling YOU and I(Jessicha), his mediator of a new covenant isn't for everyone

Achorladey: rottennaija has stated clearly that JESUS CHRIST is his MEDIATOR but this statement of YOURS HERE is CONFUSING, can you explain further and are there TWO NEW CONVENANT?

rottennaija:
You see, it's easy for you to rush in making remarks about others, calling names, pastors etc. I don't do that. You won't see me do that. Mistakes can be made and I made them. I'm responding to about 3 people at a time, and I can say type what isn't on my mind.

And reddit isn't a pastor. Correct yourself

Maximus69:
Haa!
He has argued over that several time with daddy and mummy at home,and are you now asking him the same question?
I don't think his rebellious heart can grasp that!

budaatum:
No, "whoever is not against you is for you," does not mean "whoever is against you is not for you", at least not always or most often, in fact! Imagine a child believing that! It will be naughty, I will oppose it, so I am the enemy?!

We might be against you for your own good for instance, or for the good of the group, or be supporting you in your wrong ways for our own advantage and your own destruction.

rottennaija:
Yes.
Are their sins forgiven because of the new covenant? Yes.

Will you sit on THRONES?
Will your sins be forgiven?
Is God's law written in your heart?

rottennaija:
I am not going to say you lack understanding as you have said. I believe, I know you understand perfectly well what the watchtower organization has taught you to understand and that how far you know. However, your zeal is based on a false misrepresentation of God's will and is misdirected.

The old covenant could not achieve forgiveness of sins and the Israelite broke it often. That's why Jehovah made a new one. And it is forgiveness of sins. In the new covenant, He promised:

"I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ’Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." - Jeremiah 31:34

Tell me that you are not in the new covenant, then which are you? Old covenant? All of God's servant has always been in covenant with Jehovah.

Jesus christ is rightly the mediator of the new covenant and all true Christians are in that covenant. Because the covenant is for the forgiveness of sins, it is what makes God's law written in your heart and mind. No one should be telling you to know and love Jehovah.

When Jesus introduced the new covenant, he mentioned specifically that it is sealed by his blood for the forgiveness of sins.

St. Matthew 26:28 (See also Lu 22:20) “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.”

It is why the apostle Paul said, it is a better covenant in Heb 8:6. It is by this new covenant that both jews and Gentiles could worship God as one, without any boundaries seperating them. (I hope you know we are all gentiles

rottennaija:
Wasn't that the bone of contention? Watchtower says you are not in the new covenant.

rottennaija:
Wasn't that the bone of contention? Watchtower says you are not in the new covenant.

Emusan:
Typical JWs...

Hypocrisy will not kill you one day...

Madam sense I hear you

rottennaija:
No. I am not joking. I expect to see you reject the new covenant just as you reject Jesus mediatorship and accept secondary mediators

rottennaija:
About the new covenant, Jehovah says, "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ’Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." - Jeremiah 31:34

So since you are not in the new covenant, Jehovah’s laws is not written in your heart and in your mind? How will your sins be forgiven since you are not in the new covenant?

Or are you in the old?

rottennaija:
So you are not in the new covenant? Which covenant covers you?

Jessicha:
My friend, explain John 3:8 , why are u running ?

Many of y'all lacked understanding , am sorry to say

rottennaija:
Which lack of understanding? They said Jesus is their mediator and the GB (being anointed) are also their mediator. They don't went on to explain how Jehovah practice democracy being having the 14400 act as a secondary mediator (NASS).

That aside, are you in the New covenant?