₦airaland Forum

I don't agree with you here. Because many christians attributed their growth to that cell leader that wont give up on them. Even when they lie ,give flimsy excuses for missing services ,he keeps coming after them. Until finally they began to grow.

There may be some imperfections in structures. But If you observe such ,what do you do? You dint condemn the system, you change it. First step is by becoming the best cell leader yourself and be an example .

It's not by the number of scrolls but by the depth of knowledge .

Galatians 1:11-12
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Jesus was not an American or Briton . This is not an issue of White man religion. Jesus died for the whole world.

So what is your own religion? Agi-tuedor

paris10:
Gone are the days when Pastors would bless you even if you don't have anything to give. The "it's your heart that matters" adage no longer echoed within the Church set up. "thou shall not go to the Lord's house empty handed" is now the new motto for most pentecostal Churches.

I don't find it comfortable when I go to Church without having a dime to give. Although I don't see anything wrong with it (since I sincerely don't have), my Pastor would always point it out that it's a sin to come to Church empty. This opinion is also shared by many pentecostal Pastors I've come in contact with.

I've since then decided that If don't have anything to give when going to Church, I might as well stay back home and enjoy my musics. I'm done with Pastors trying to make me look poor or bad. Even If I do have something to give as offering, other petty demands and begging still have to be taking into consideration.

God is good (All the time)

It is wrong to make someone feel bad for not having. You should know Gods word for yourself not to feel bad. But at the same time you should nurture the desire to give. One thing is not having to give , another thing is being critical of giving. That will be a mistake . But if you desire to give , there will be a seed. because God always give seed to the sower. You give your way out of poverty.

2 Corinthians 9:10
10 For God, who gives seed to the farmer to plant, and later on good crops to harvest and eat, will give you more and more seed to plant and will make it grow so that you can give away more and more fruit from your harvest.

By the way why dont you have? Is it lack of a job or something? Or you don't earn much?

@agi-tuedor

Look at it this way. Man by disobeying God was destined for death.

Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death. .

That's number one. The second thing is that man also lost the dominion God gave him . He lost it to Satan. Man needs to get back his dominion from Satan . The just God won't interfere . The whole of human race is doomed by this. But there is no man qualified to deliver man. man was too weak to deliver himself.

Gods Word became a man100% . It is only by death that he can get to the region of the dead so as to defeat satan and take back what man lost. He was mans representative. He had to die to get there because it is a spiritual place. He had to die also to fulfil the punishment for man. The reason why he was the best person to do it was because he had the ability to cone back alive. He wasn't forced . He did it willingly.

John 10:17-18
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.


The purpose of his death was realised. Man has been delivered from destruction and doom. Also there is restoration of the authority that man lost to Satan. Man can walk in dominion over Satan now.

Jesus wasn't a martyr. He lay down his life . So who is complaining?

So if he could come

nlMediator:
First, the understanding that the eye of the needle refers to a gate has been there for decades, if not centuries. That you only came across it not long ago does not mean that everybody else was as ignorant, so much so that they came by this "new" truth, you're better than the rest. Second, you contradict yourself or should I say, confuse matters, when you talk of "obeying the manual." Several people here not disputing the reason or result of the obedience - to enjoy the gadget, being part of it. The controversy is whether that action of following the manual is obedience. So, to help the rest of us, do you believe that christians obey the scriptures or are required to obey the scriptures?

Let us not play on semantics. The issue is the contrast between obeying the law for a blessing and unconditional blessing. You don't need to understand the law to do it. Even though many of them are still based on spiritual principles.

When you offer turtle dove, and sprinkle heifer, you don't need to understand it . It is a command to obey. And if you don't do it punishment follows. But when we do the word of God , it is based on revelation of faith. Every christian love to live right. Because the nature of God is in him. The flesh tries to get in the way. And that's why the fellowship with the Word and Gods spirit is important. We do the word because we love God.

That is why I'm so amazed at those who claim Christianity here , yet they can be so abusive . They lack the simple revelation of Gods love.

When you walk outside love, you walk in darkness . It's based on principle.

1 John 3:14-15
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

gn4dwnow:
This is why many actually perish (lack of knowledge) and forsake their unconditional blessings. That I give you a brand new Home Theatre is not a guarantee that you will use it well and enjoy it. You have to read the operation manual and follow its directions. When you do this, you are not obeying to get the system, it is yours already.

Pls tell them . I like your use of the word . OPERATING MANUAL. I should have added it to my definitions of The Word.

livin:
PLS can i ask what the [b]word [/b]is?

The word of God is any thing that is consistent with Gods plan and purpose for us in christ Jesus .

LoveKing:
@P.JOE
you keep saying principles? are they different from the law?

Yes they are. The law abolished but things that are based on principles pre existed the law and also outlive the law.

aletheia:
^
What a deluded fool you are!

Do you feel better now? Clap for yourself

nlMediator:
Going to church is important. But it is even more important to know Jesus for ourselves.

I agree with you 100%

At which point, you can have church anywhere you are, any time.

Yes ,but That should not supplant going to church. Praying at home orvin the toilet should nit take the place or church services.

The church needs to dial back about making people feel guilty to do what pleases the pastor, whether it's contributing money or showing up for church events.

I don't think anyone has done that here. Admonition and encouragement is not a seed for guilt. It is to provoke unto good work

Hebrews 10:24-25
24 And let us . . provoke unto love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

This is why some ministries have several branches almost on every street just to make it possible that rain or transportation will not hinder anybody from attending service. Yet critics will still complain at that and read their own carnal meaning into such an idea.

mabell:
@poster, will it be a sin if your child is dying and you stay back in the house rather than go to the hospital because it is raining.

Wao mabel, what a good kuesion.

nlMediator:
If you truly believe the above, especially the bolded, you'll not spend one second mentioning tithes, first fruits in church. Just teach members yieldedness to the Holy Spirit,

You have been fair so far . Unlike those who manipulate the posts of others here. But I'm only concerned why you dwelt on the yieldedness to the holy spirit only and took away the "yieldedness to the word" because that would have answered our concern. The holy spirit works with the word of God . And the word reveals Gods will and principles. So tithing, first fruits ,prayer,worship are based on  principles. not commandments.

. I can assure you that nobody probably knew anything about first fruits in your church, until it was taught from the pulpit. Meaning that even after these many years, you don't have yielded people in the church.

First fruit is a universal principle. Even unsaved people recognise and practises it. Everyone knows there is something sacred or special about "the first "  why are firstborn given special place. First salary etc. Many take it to their parents. Because even nature teach them that there's something special about the first. In villages ,no one would eat new yam until village priest eats the first fruit. But it's a pervasion . The first is a honour to God. Abel was the first person recorded to do it.

Oh, not only does the church believe in tithes, offering and first fruits, but they keep a record of these. For instance, nobody can aspire to leadership in these churches without being a consistent tither, giver of first fruits, etc. Yieldedness is defined by obedience to the pastor's beliefs.

maybe that's how it's done in your church . And you can't use it as yardstick  for others. There can be pastors that Don't tithe or leaders that don't tithe. It is by personal revelation. But a wise person should tithe.

I recommended church becausevof monitoring. For example, most churches have cell system or house fellowship . And through these structures someones growth can be monitored . If he gets discouraged again and missing a service, someone will come looking for him. He is not alone.

Ecclesiastes 4:10
. . . woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up.

Of course Paul had deeper knowledge of truth. And some of the deep things he taught were hard for certain people to understand. I agree it's not based on academic study but it was surely based on spiritual revelation

nlMediator:
I have answered him. I also think his position on the words of Jesus is based on the erroneous, illogical and legally inaccurate belief that the New Testament was written only after the death of Jesus. The Bible says no such thing.

Jesus was in between The old and the new. He demonstrated the power of the old and introduced some new things. But he primarily functioned under the old testament to a great extent . The new testament was cut at his death. His death was the beginning of the new. So the writings of the gospels were not Revelations if the new testament. If you want to know what the new contain. Study acts and the epistles.

]

These are spiritual  principles and not commandment. Commandment were not based on revelation or relationship.  They may be a form of instructions to babies. They may look like law to some others. That's Why people should not be fed with baby food. Law was not given to reveal righteousness is was given to reveal mans inability and failings.

fyneguy:
loooooooooool What won't you read on nairaland.

A Dog begets a dog.

A goat begets a goat.

The word begets what?

For some people ,The Word begets Good for nothing people

A fervent prayer is a prayer that takes the whole of you, your concentration. Your heart is in it. Then also with the power of Gods spirit. It is a prayer of inner zeal. Some people pray religiously, some others pray absrnt mindedly.
The word FERVENT Actually refers to something firery. Fire, burning zeal.

Slavery was once a way o life. Until knowledge came. You can't really blame anyone . The world is evolving . Laws are changing . Human rights,Civil right, Children rights, animal rights, foetus rights, women rights. All are art of the evolution.

There are certain peculiar situations where there seem to be a challenge . Or hindrance to attending a service which will make a man umpn avoidable absent in church. It ranges from Natural ,vocational ,academically situations which can't be avoided . A man on the rig for 2weeks can't jump into the sea to swim to church. The major thing is to ensure that you explore every opportunity to be in church . But when it rains. There are several options. Walking under the rain with umbrela. Pray and wait for rain to subside. This has worked for me many years ago. Rain never stopped me. When i pray. I always get a period of break when rain will subside. It could be for 30 min or so. Well that's me. Rain coat is an option.

There's always a way. Take a taxi drop if you can afford it. Bit don't miss church service for flimsy reasons

Hebrews 10:25
25 Let us not neglect our church meetings, as some people do, but encourage and warn each other, especially now that the day of his coming back again is drawing near.

The kingdom of God is based upon principles. And these principles are based on revelations. We pray, not by a command, we give, we worship.not by a command.
It's children that are looking for  rules and regulations. As you yield yourself to Gods spirit and Gods word. His will is worked out through you. Not by struggle. It's natural . It's your nature. I pray because I love God and I fellowship with him . Same thing goes for my study , giving, helping others etc, it is not by a command . It is a life within.

Philippians 2:13
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

nlMediator:
^^^

From Post # 66:
“The will of God may not always come to pass if we don't do our part .That's where giving, living godly life, obedience, faith etc all come in.”

From Post # 74:
‘Don't mix up the context. The Israelites have to obey God to bless them. Jesus has obeyed on our behalf, we are blessed already . So we are not obeying any law to be blessed. But that doesn't take obedience out of our dictionary.it depend on the context.   When the Holy spirit told paul not to go to Asia  did paul not obey? . It's a different context. Yieldedness to Gods spirit is obedience to his leasership. But paul himself said " I was not disobedient to that heavenly calling"’

In addition, you’ve made other statements like “when we sow into pastors’ lives, we reap.” Such statements are based on your understanding of scriptures such as Gal. 6. If you’re following what those scriptures say, are you not obeying the instructions contained in the scriptures?

I really do not see the point in insisting that you’re not obeying, when you are. Saying that you’re acting out your nature does not change the fact that you’re obeying. It just means that your nature enables you to obey. Look at Paul’s example that you gave above. Why is it obedience to the Holy Spirit in the case of Paul but not obedience when we do it? Couldn’t Paul have said that he was acting out his nature of love? You also ask about commandments. Isn’t everything God tells us to do a commandment, including sowing, preaching, honoring our parents? Must the C word be used before we know it is a commandment?

Ok I get your point. This is an issue of semantics.  Different uses of a word. Consider the context of the post. I'm talking in terms of old testament obedience to commandment. God deals with us through a love relationship . We love the brethren . Nit as a command . It's a revelation.

So that's what all these "my people campaingn" of yours about ? To initiate NLmediator into your clique.

@all
There are no laws and commandments for the church to be obeying. If you have references to them pls name them.
1. Thou shall ,

aletheia:
^More:
(John 14:15 [KJV])
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(John 14:21 [KJV])
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

(John 14:23 [KJV])
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

(John 14:24 [KJV])
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

(John 15:10 [KJV])
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


This last verse even shows a conditional if ye keep my commandments. . .

Jo is a classic case of. . .For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (2 Tim 4:3-4)

What hogwash by Chris Oyaks. . ."Nowhere in the New Testament are we told to obey God"

New testament began after Jesus death dude. Is that What did they teach u in your church? Oh sorry I forgot you are one of the sheep without a shepherd how sad.

So did Peter go to school? rather be a contributor than a critic .

nlMediator:
My brother, don't you think you're adding to the lack of clarity? You spent some time convincing us that christians are called to obey  in order to receive blessings, (fruits), but not the blessing(grace) . What was it they're expected to obey? Don't you think both of you are saying the same thing about obedience being a pre-condition to receiving blessings like long life, prosperity, etc?

I would have prefer you quote the post so that we don't misunderstand one another. My point is that we have been blessed already unconditionally in christ on the account of his obedience. Which is his death.

It's like i come to the dinning table, the food won't jump into my mouth . I need to serve myself and not only that, I need to put the food in my mouth.

It's like you put money into my account. I need to write a cheque. And make withdrawal. My writing cheque and withdrawal has nothing to do with you any longer but ,everything now depends on me.

My deed of faith will cause an outflow of the power through me. Because the blessing is in me. I have to create favourable circumstance to manifest it.  That is faith. Or deed of faith.

^^^^
That's what we are driving at. Love is a nature. That's who we are. Is a dog barking by commandments or following a law? There is already a law at work in his nature that makes it bark. Love is our nature. It is a law at work in the christian . It is not a commandment but our nature. We give it expression.

PAGAN 9JA:
the church was busy converting the slaves.

You answered correctly