₦airaland Forum

Pls quote what I said, no assumptions. His own case was confirmed . Robert liardon was confirmed . He openly admitted , he was forgiven , and restored and the past is gone.

Revelation 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It is an allegory . I don't know if I use the right English term . It is based on a foreknowledge of God. There was no physical lamb slain
Were we not choosing before the foundation of the world too?. (according to his fore knowledge)

Ephesians 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Does that mean we were born again before we came. It was settled in the mind of God but not yet a physical reality until we confesss the lorship of christ and receiving eternal life. Besides the term doesn't explicitly mean "before the world was created " in all passage. Sometimes it just mean "far back."

Luke 11:50
50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;

All of us are only working with assumptions. The truth will suface. I'm just assuming. There are times in Nigeria ,press men comes to a big man and say we have this article against you , you may win in court but before you win reputation would be damaged . It may take years and they negotiate to kill the story even though it is based on false hood. It happens in court . It happens all over the world. Micheal jackson and co and co. The family the vowed he couldn't do such. We saw how IMF leader who wanted to fight his case lost his position . If he had opportunity to settle , he probably would. Even if he wins now, he can't have his office back. Someone who have nothing to lose , sometimes has upper hand in scandals over one who has everything to lose.  I may be wrong in my assumption but ,that's my opinion. If he did it , I'm sure he will admit it openly in church so as to receive forgiveness. When this case is over.

Jesus is the seed that was promised since genesis. It is the seed that would break the head of the serpent who had corrupted human race. So all the good deed of men before christ came were only temporarily acceptable. They still had the nature of sin in their spirit. They could not pass on to heaven. All were waiting for the second Adam who will bring perfection. They were held against their will in hell. Hell had 2 compartment. The first is paradise, the second is the place of torment. In paradise , the righteous saints were held, but they were not in fire nor any suffering. But the other side had fire wheere the wicked go. So Abraham was not burning in hell.

nuclearboy:
IS HE (me) LYING HIS HEAD OFF? The emails are there, dude and can be posted here - did you or NOT say it can cause problems for you at church cos nobody sent you here? I know you won't answer because we both know the truth!

The point is that pastor chris is against defending against opponent, one or two CEC members have once come online to rebuke me, saying I'm not a real CEC member, because I ought not to be defending anything  . What ever defence here I had, I was pushed into it. I told you ,I came here to make post as a christian. You guys created this defence thing out of me. I had to break protocols. I had refused to enter any CEC thread when I first came on NL.

Pls read my earlier post. I explained everything there. It was nominal

Snowwy:
I wonder how you reason sometimes.
My post above was based on scriptures as seen below.

Gal 3:6 - Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness
Heb. 11:5 - By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God

You are yet to tell me where you saw the scripture that said they were righteous because God gave them a gift of righteousness. You are fighting so vehemently for a logic you reasoned. Is pleasing God and believeing God of which they were seen as righteous, the same thing as them being righteous because it was a gift of God?

Please post maturedly as it is very obvious whose post is daft here.

I said thrsame before, there is difference between righteousness been credited to a person as in Abraham ,righteousness by works of the law as in Moses and others and the righteousness of the christian.

A christian has the exact righteousness God has. Not only that, he became the very righteousness itself.

Paul made us to know the difference between the righteoudneses.

Philippians 3:9
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

aletheia:
^
I understand your angst: your livelihood is threatened;

I never told anyone my livelihood is threatened. I rather make money nd put into the gospel. I have many friends here. Even on Facebook. They know the things I do. I make good money. He can be lying his head off , I don't have his boyish time. I only said ,if you want to abuse me , leave church out if it. It's un ethical, personal ,privacy attack should stop. Such things may have consequences.  Well, that's you people small minded problem.

that is why you are on the offensive against aletheia.

Me on the offensive? It's the other way round Biko .

No doubt if you had my email, by now you would be sending your duplicitous missives my way.

Feeling of importance .

.

The scripture you quote is for critics like you. Sheep without shepheard . Read it from vs 8

Jude 1:8-10
Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

NLMediator:
. Some people simply cannot handle wealth and are better off staying away from it. I know a pastor who became reluctant to preach messages on prosperity because as members began to prosper, they stopped showing up in church or reduced their committment. They remembered to play golf on sunday mornings when they ought to be in church.

Probably, his message wasn't balanced . If they believe the prosperity part and they prospered,they will believe " not to forsake the assembly" also if he teaches it.

On the other hand, one could still be arrogant or have other terrible habits even when poor. Anybody that thinks that the poor are holier has not met many poor people. Some of the most wicked peeople are poor, while some of the nicest people are rich. I have noticed that both poverty and prosperity can destroy or enhance one's faith. Extolling the virtues of one and demonizing the other is not a fruitful pursuit.

That's true, one of the reason for delay in certain people lives is because of their unpreparedness to handle the next level
I agree

@snowwy

Snowwy:
@snthesis,
Yes there were actually 3 tithes.
Take time to read the whole chapter of Deuteronomy 14.
After that then check out the the scriptures on tithes as quoted below with highlights.

Deut. 14:22-27:
22  Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23  And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
24  And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25  Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
26  And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
27  And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

This was obviously tithe to be eaten by the individual, his family and also the poor, levites etc and it was to be taken to a place where God has chosen to place his name.
If the place was far? That means the place could change from time to time and this was obviously not at the temple.
This tithe was for the people to learn to fear God.


Deut. 14:28-29
28  At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
29  And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

This tithe was laid up within the peoples gates for the poor, levites also, fatherless, stranger etc so that they could come and eat within the peoples gates and be staisfied.
This was so that the Lord might bless the works of their hands.


Now in the book of Numbers, see the scriptures on tithes:

Numbers 18:21 & 24
21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation
24But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.

This tithe was brought to the house of the Lord as an offering. This is the one that was given to the Levites specifically. This was the portion due them.

I hope you understand better now.

Thanks for these illustrations . Many need to see this

NLMediator:
Oh yes, it's the Congregation in the vast majority of cases that makes the pastor rich. Where do you think the pastor's money comes from

Many have jobs and businesses

if he has no separate job? And I'm not talking about salary here. Sure, some pastors are not rich, for a number of reasons. They do not want to. They are not conversant with important wealth-building principles. They do not know how to mobilize the congregation to make them rich. Their conscience or self-respect constrain them from invoking some get-rich tactics. Etc.

We can't deny the fact that some things can be abused with wrong motive. Any man that will do the work of ministry with wring motive will suffer for it and he will lose his reward in heaven also. We leave the motive to God. But if any person give in a church, he gives to God. And if you give to God ,grace will abound. We don't give to get poor.except it'
Wasn't a giving of faith.

I do not buy the idea that giving is a major avenue for building wealth or that many people have testified to getting wealthy by giving. While some genuine cases of God-given wealth cannot be disputed, many of those stories of wealth are more complicated than what appears on the surface. I have looked closely at friends and others in various churches to know that it is so. Unfortunately, many keep on deceiving themselves that they'd get rich SIMPLY by emptying their pockets in church. God never said so and they're better off, following His ordained pattern, which many pastors, btw, follow.

It is a law. If the poor give, he will receive , if a man is rich does not give he will lose it.The poor and the rich must give. It is only givings that are not born of faith that may not  be blessed.

NLMediator:
"I asked a question which nobody could answer , if it's possible to be saved or born again without the blood of Jesus, of what necessity is his death, why did he need to shed his blood if men could be saved without it, his death was in vain."

I'm still studying this issue and claim no deep knowledge of any sort. But could a possible answer be that Jesus' physical visit to earth and the accompanying death were to provide the salvation experience already being enjoyed by some Jews to non-Jews?

If we assume the Jews were saved already on the basis of the law ,we should also remember  Gentiles were also converted to Judaism, like  cornelius and the ethiopean eunuch . so if the Jews were born again by works of the law ,the Gentiles who  were converted to judaism also should be counted born again under the law. We are still left with the question, if they could have been saved without the death of christ, he didn't need to die .

Besides ,paul made it clear that the gospel brought salvation to Jews and Gentiles

Romans 1:16
. . the gospel of Christ. .  is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Jesus told Peter about conversion.

Luke 22:32
. .  when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Peter himself acknowledged that they got born again through christ resurrection

1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

The righteous saints of old testaments were saved nominally. They were declared righteous men according to the standard of righteousness of their time. But they still had the sin nature, requires a pure blood to take away. Or change.

All men got saved  in christ. When he rose, everybody rose with him. Some of them even appeared to others.

Matthew 27:52
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

You should quote my post rather and let me explain

The congregation don't make a pastor rich. Why is every pastor not rich. A pastor is first a christian . Every christian live by giving, a pastor live by giving also. The message of prosperity is for all to believe and act upon. If you believe in it ,it works for you. Many people testify how much they have prospered by acting their faith through giving. It's a spiritual law. It is false hood when some say members make a pastor rich and the members are poor.  What of all the testimonies in churches of how the word if zgod or giving had caused them to prosper. Some members have given gifts to their pastors in appreciation of the prodpeity that has come upon them through their ministry.

Definitely if a pastor is a blessing to people ,people will give to him. And you dont get broke because you give. Everybody must be a giver. Either it's in church o or on the street. It's a simple spiritual law. you don't give you will lack

Enigma:
By the way, in relation to Joagbaje's "gospel", aletheia was quite right though Joagbaje is dissembling once again. In fact I can bet I know one of the tactics he will use: he will say for instance that he did not say Abraham was not [i]saved but that he only said he was not "born again" and so on ad nauseam.[/i]

So why not simply use the term I used?why twist the post in a lie as though joagbaje has insulted father Abraham .of course, No man got born again until Jesus shed his blood, Abraham and all the rest had nominal salvation in their day. They all got born again at the sacrifice of the blood of christ. Until Jesus died no man could be remitted of the sin nature. From Adam to the cross. If anyone say otherwise he only Insults the blood of Jesus christ.The blood of st is what reconciled man back to God.

Hebrews 9:22
. . .and without shedding of blood is no remission. . 

Colossians 1:20
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Hebrews 9:15
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Romans 5:18
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Jesus had said "if I be lifted up (on the cross) I will draw ALL men. . ."

I asked a question which nobody could answer , if it's possible to be saved or born again without the blood of Jesus, of what necessity is his death, why did he need to shed his blood if men could be saved without it, his death was in vain.

The bottom line is that Joagbaje's "gospel" stinks as it is full of disguised, sometimes even barely disguised, poison.

That's you guys opinion. God doesn't see it so.

I don't know who wrote the funny script for the old woman to read. It's really funny.

Why would some people believe that wellbeing is of the devil. She stated she used to know a woman who used to dress in modesty but after the woman began to attend Joyce Meyers meeting she changed in appearance and even wore mink coat ! , for Gods sake, what has that Got to do with salvation, is God against prosperity? Would she had prefers the woman in poverty, if someone discovered other benefit of salvation,like prosperity and healing and dominion, is it not success, does that stop her prayers ?

Matthew 17:26-27
26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free. 27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.


If Jesus could settle tax collectors unjustifiably just to avoid trouble, we should not assume every settlement is based on guilt. We shouldn't get exited at the fall or shortcomings of others.

[color=#990000]Galatians 6:1-2
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. 2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.[/

We should cross our hands till the outcome of the full truth . Creflo Dollar did right. That's the bible.

. . .But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth (Acts 1:8).
 
As Christians, not only have we been divinely mandated to preach the Gospel (Mark 16:15), we’ve been endued with power from on high to function effectively as fervent souls winners. We’ve been made able ministers of the Gospel.

The Apostle Paul being mindful of this said,

“And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry” (1 Timothy 1:12).

We’ve been divinely enabled to manifest the Kingdom-life and show forth the unsearchable riches, graces, excellence and manifold wisdom of Christ through the preaching of the Gospel. This charge is for every Christian, not for a select few!

You ought to be afire for the Lord, with your heart burning hot with the Good News. Never allow opportunities to preach the Gospel pass you by unutilized. Never be shy or intimidated to preach to anybody: “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind” (2 Timothy 1:7). There’s an anointing on you to preach the Gospel, and that anointing is activated the moment you open your mouth to witness to somebody about Christ.
You have the Holy Spirit, and He has already enabled you for the task, so all you need do is to go ahead, open your mouth and speak! You’ll be amazed at the gracious and powerful words of wisdom that’ll proceed out of your mouth. He said in

Luke 21:15,
“For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.”

No wonder He said in Psalm 81:10,

“…open your mouth wide and I will fill it…”

Which means once you’ve determined you’re going to communicate the Gospel to someone, the Lord will give you the words to speak; yours is to open your mouth and begin to speak. Begin conscious of what the Lord Jesus said in Luke 24

Luke 24:49
“…behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.”

This was fulfilled in your life when you were born again; you received the promise of the Father and became endued and enabled with power from on high to preach the Gospel.

Prayer
Dear Father, thank you for making me an able minister of the Gospel; your word of faith, salvation, deliverance and healing is in my heart today as a burning fire, shut up in my bones. And I declare it forth with power everywhere I go today, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study
2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

1 Corinthians 4:1-2
Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God. Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

1 Peter 4:10
As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

^^^^
do you have any proof he did it?

aletheia:
^Like the deluded Emperor you can continue to perambulate unclothed in the market place for all I care. Your poisonous brew is well known and as been recorded in different places on this forum. . .so I am not ready to oblige you. Just be informed that the time for tolerating your rubbish is over.

What is the poisonous brew. You seem to be the poison , because your likes hardly make a contribution without spewing venom. What kind of Christianity do you practice. If you believe I said something you perceive wrong in your opinion, why don't you take me on in the spirit of meekness by the undiluted word, and let the word expose the error, but rather you start name calling, because you can't stand a strait discussion , it's a sign of emptiness . You have stuff to say, say it bible way. Don't turn to street fight.

2 Timothy 2:24-25
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Does this reflect your response? Rather we  here wof , wofer, wolves,false teacher, etc because you know that when you enter abuses ,I will sign out. What are you afraid of?

ogajim:
JoAgbaje and Creflo seem to be on the same page no wonder enigma called CD one of your mentors sort of. How did you guys know that God has forgiven the man when he hasn't admitted to anything?

That's why i said "if he did commit the error" we have no reason to prove he did, but just incase he did, there's no sin God can't forgive. There is no christian who love to live in sin. A christian could fall into sin even wilfully , that's doesn't take his salvation away. His conscience will not be at rest until make things right. No christian enjoys sin. The guilt in the concsience will be there and that's proof of Gods presence.

We have to wait to confirm if he did it. And if he did , there is room ,for repentance. Isn't it?

Creflo dollar was right. God has forgiven, that's if he did commit the error . There is no sin God won't forget. That didn't take away his calling from the man. He is still anointed to fulfil his assignment. If God forgive a man , we cant hold offence against him. Has God rejected him? . How many of us don't do wrong? If we get forgiveness , we should believe in the forgiveness of others. How you treat him matters, it can become your own sin.

@ OP
I think you should define this skimpy dress thing. It is relative. Some people believe short sleeve shirt is a sin for a bro .

frosbel:
Many of them repeated a prayer and assumed they were saved by all these MOG.

The physical churches are packed full of unregenerate souls parading as born again.
Even the devil carries a bible to the physical church nowadays.

Dressing has nothing to do with salvation. Salvation is not by appearance . I'm not advocating for indecent exposure but let's get our fact straight.

In our faults grace still works. There's protection still . If God allow all the consequences of our actions to come on us ,we won't stand. So the grace of God was still there. The bible characters we study about were not perfect , they had their short comings and umbrlief, we see the progression of their growth in knowledge and relationship with God.
Job was walking in fears which he confessed regularly and eventually ,the fear manifested. the issue is not what happened behind the curtain but the law of attraction.

nuella2:
Whats the meaning of the words in red?

The interpretation is in the bracket

^^^
why you are busy doing research to criticise others, have you researched how you ought to receive the holyghost as Jesus promised the church, have you researched what role you ought to play in world evangelisation, intercession etc.

^^^^

So how does your blabbing justify your lie below, give me the quote .

aletheia:
According to the gospel of Joagbaje:

1) The letter of James is not supposed to be in the Bible because it is "lesser revelation"
2) Abraham was not saved
3) There are "two" types of righteousness: Men can chose the one they wish to live by. It doesn't matter which. They will be saved.

Pastor AIO:
I can give one example of why I believe a great impact is being made on Nigeria (and beyond) from here.  Consider the number of times that KunleOshob's articles have come back to NL having circulated the world.

Everybodys articles on the net goes around the world .

 

Someone eventually posts it here thinking that it will be news only to find that the article began it's life on these shores.

Who is the someone ?

Well my point is , a minister doesn't make a descision by critics. A man of God hears from God. Can anybody satisfy critics ? Ebenezer obey Sang about "omo araye" you can't satisfy critics. Jesus couldn't either.

Luke 7:33-34
33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. 34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

Even your presence on Nairaland is further proof for me that NL is having a tremendous effect on Nigeria, because I believe that what we are discussing here is being felt by Oyaks and you have been sent here to monitor things and reverse the influence.

That's laughable. Why would a man talking to the entire world and making tremendous impact be concerned about a site. When he has every machinery in the world at his disposal. Well that would have been a great honour for me if I would be given that kind of assignment. But I would rather tell you guys, CEC ambassador is here, if you have any question ask ye me .

Pastor chris from what I know him doesn't encourage the distraction of critics, with all the machinery at his disposal, how many times has he used them to correct any thing said about him. The man enjoys persecution. He only laugh at such ,when he ever hears about it,without bothering himself to know the magazine or publisher.

I have said many times ,I came on NL like every other person. To have my own fun and contribute. You guys created the defence of CEC out of me. By googling my name and linking me with CEC . And i said fine, let's have it.

NLMediator:
"I do not deny the power of the Holy Spirit to heal, deliver, save etc.  I have prayed for someone a whIle back who was grievously ill with malaria , he was healed but there was no sign of falling down, foaming from the mouth etc, Just a simple prayer made in FAITH.

I'm glad that someone here can testify that God still heals through people. Some try to make us feel we are lying when we share few testimonies of this sort. It's supposed to inspire others they can do the same. it is not boasting

aletheia:
According to the gospel of Joagbaje:

1) The letter of James is not supposed to be in the Bible because it is "lesser revelation"
2) Abraham was not saved
3) There are "two" types of righteousness: Men can chose the one they wish to live by. It doesn't matter which. They will be saved.

Here comes our lying doctor, where did I make such statement?