₦airaland Forum

TomHagen:
I thought I said that already. I have no proof that will satisfy you.

You don't even have proof at all not to talk of one that can be regarded satisfactory.

Marvyx:
Even if he provided you with pictorial evidence, you will still not believe because your mind is already made up. Personally I pray that Jesus personally reaches out to people like you and your friends on NL.

I've made up my mind not to be part of baseless arguments as it profits me nothing. If I perceived that you were looking for answers I would have loved to give them to you. But like I said, your mind is closed.

The last time I argued with an atheist on NL, I told him something which I will still tell you and Deicide now.

We all have an expiry date in this world. You will leave this world one day so will I.... But when that time comes, we will know who was foolish to believe in God or not .

I still pray that you come to salvation before the last day because you will remember all your posts, my post and every Christian that tried to talk to you on NL and beyond. Cheers bro

Oh Jesus Christ!!! Not one of these again #Sighs.

Just simply give us the pics and videos first not these silly old tired excuses please...

TomHagen:
I have nothing that can satisfy you.

I agree that you have nothing, that is why you need faith to believe every whim, coercion and absurd fantasies thrown at you in your blind comformity to sheepish unsupported beliefs.

If you had something you wouldn't require faith, where there is proof there is no need for faith. People only apply faith when they lack tangible reasons to believe something.

Now it has been nailed that your beliefs are not only subjective but baseless and unsupported - i hope you'd agree it will be an act of fraud and criminal lie to teach it as truth to the public, and even more so insane to believe it as real.

TomHagen:
Exactly my point.

Bros simply agree you don't have any proof and save face - i gave an example above!!!

jonbellion:
lol if we could see that kind of thing for religion everyone would just follow Christ

Don't hold your breathe on that. they are only good at claiming it... two words always murder each ridiculous claim.

prove it

Just like i did above..

TomHagen:
You see why it's useless to attempt to show anything? You'd just deny. You'd call videos and pictures doctored and also you have this erroneous thought that miracles are for your amusement. THEY ARE NOT!!

Oga is this another way of agreeing you have nothing? Can you simply agree so you can just sleep better tonight or does it pay to deny the obvious?

Deicide:
Sir i do not see any limb regrowing in the link you provided

Asin eeeehn this is getting real bad and hot, wouldn't like to be him now

i was expecting at least pictorial evidence even if it's photoshopped but got a story as a meal...

The story of 'Three little pigs' is beginning to sound real to me now

something just as simple as this

[img]http://www.washington.edu/news/files/2013/07/ProsthesisDevice-09.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.washington.edu/news/files/2013/07/ProsthesisDevice-38.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.washington.edu/news/files/2013/07/ProsthesisDevice-49.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.washington.edu/news/files/2013/07/ProsthesisDevice-67.jpg[/img]

Don't you just love science Don't claim it, just prove it!!!

TomHagen:
Read the link.

Oh i just did, a story does not prove anything so you still have to prove this tale..

Obviously we already had photographs by the time the alleged event took place, so can we see a before an after photo of the man's limbs?

I'm sure an event of such magnitude would never have gone unnoticed or failed to attract much attention at the time of it's happening.

so sir in order not to make this disgraceful for you, i urge you provide us with tangible proof ..

TomHagen:
I am sure you must have heard of Smith Wigglesworth, Try not to deny www.revivalhistory.com/blog/smith-wigglesworththat-you-may-marvel/

I have not sir - so what about him?

Deicide:
If u have Evidence That an Amputee limb was Regrown Can you please bring it forward

lets wait for the example but i'm betting on another hilarious excuse

TomHagen:
...and who said He hasn't?

Nobody sir, we just asked for examples or demonstration...

Deicide:
When it comes to regrowing an amputated limb They will always have an Excuse

Let's enjoy the show -

TomHagen:
It isn't hard for Him to do. Nothing is. Have you ever taken an amputee for healing and was disappointed?

An irrelevant dance around, why not simply give me an example or is it easier to deny the obvious?

TomHagen:
If He does that, he would only be exercising His Divine prerogative.

Seems it's prerogatives are limited to such vague examples - why is it not extended to amputated limbs that made you resort to silly excuses?

It's hard to defend unreal and pass it as real i understand, you'd have to coin out ridiculous excuses at every juncture.

Deicide:
But he is able to help me find my Car keys for my Amusement

Or score a goal in a football match, heal headaches but bring up unambiguous example like "Regrow an amputated limbs"

they roll out the silly laughable excuses and tries hard to deny the incompetence of their belief in a vague idea.

TomHagen:
And your ridiculous denials are laughable. Why do you assume that God is interested in restoring an amputee for your amusement?

Nice dodging attempt... But won't work. . You brought up the absurd claims so no running away or giving silly excuses as above..

Lmao seems God is running away from that only interested in ambiguous stuffs like headache..

Awefully unimpressive. . . why not try harder..

Prove your claims and lets establish your belief as objective truth - Regrow an amputated limb..

Why should that be so hard for God? Weren't you so excited when laying out claims?

Don't dodge please.....

TomHagen:
When those subjective experiences begin to generate physical effects like healing the sick instantly and changing lives for good, would it still be sensible to regard them as mere subjective experiences? Or would it just be easier to deny them?

Here we go with more absurd claims, this ridiculous claims gets tiresom over time - Now i believe it is now proveable, perhaps you could tender a demonstration and put it to rest and most importantly substantiate your beliefs.

All the vague amorphous claims up there are day to day occurence, let's use something more substantiable..

Regrow an amputated Limb, then i'll take your claims serious.

TomHagen:
Your dreams are unreal in the physical sense, but are they untrue?

The bolded is the very point of the saga - The lie is when i claim my dreams are real and base my view of reality on it.

Welcome back to reality, you can stop chasing and believing subjective dreams now - there are no realer than me imagining my girl friend as Elizabeth II

TomHagen:
Are your dreams not subjective?

Exactly [neurological projections are subjective] and so this subjective projection do not apply to others, once i tell everyone a diamond pot exists in neptune because i saw it in my dream, it's nothing short of madness.

So for the simple fact that you are trying to lay out subjectice fantasies [not even yours but some other person's you read in a book] as objective truth and also teach them to the public as truth not only makes you fraudulent but a liar.

Anyone that believe his/her hallucination to be real, we regard to be insane, but when groups of person believe on some other person's hallucinations to be real - there are regarded as religious.

TomHagen:
You are always modifying your posts. It isn't unreal like non-existent. It is simply transcendent.

Doesn't change it's status as an unreal value...

TomHagen:
So an experience occurred that was triggered by something else (it's personal as only the ''experiencer'' can say exactly what he experienced). This is akin to what Christians tell you. By faith you believe, accept and confess Jesus (the trigger) and the experience occurs (quite unique for every individual) and then the manifestations (still unique) for each individual begins to happen. How hard is this to understand?

LOL i knew this was were it was going to land - A personal experience is subjective to the personal observer therefore not an objective truth.

Personal experiences are not only unreliable but cannot be regarded as objective truth.

So just as a hallucination, what a Christian claims is no more realer than a hallucination, it is totally true one can hallucinate but claiming the contents of your hallucination to be real is not only absurd but a gigantic lie.

And that is exactly what you lot do, believe by Faith that you hallucinations are real and not imaginary...

I can dream of flying, it is does not mean i can fly... To claim you can fly due to a dream is not only nonsensical but insane...

So since you recognize your belief as a personal experience no realer than a hallucination, to teach them to the public as objective truth to be accepted on the premise of blind faith makes you both a liar and a fraud in the objective sense...

this shouldn't be hard to get.

TomHagen:
Does this mean it is untrue?

As a neurological projection is did happen.. neither does it change the fact that its hallucinatory, imaginary and unreal.. so?

TomHagen:
Nice try but you miss the point. If someone disputes the FACT that the hallucination occured, would it be provable? Does the fact that you are unable to prove it to the observer's satisfaction mean that it did not occur?

Means for the fact that your claim is unverifiable in the objective sense, nobody is obligated to believe it.

TomHagen:
What are the limits of objective evidence? If you had a malaria-induced hallucination in which you were being chased by dragons and I asked you to prove that you had such a hallucination ? How would you go about it since according to you every truth has to pass the tests of 'verifiability, falsifiabiliy and demonstrability'. What ''tangible evidence'' would you provide to substantiate your claim?

Now you are getting the point - as you said, it's a hallucination [A hallucination is a neurological projection therefore subjective].

The idiotic part of it is the part i claim the dragon chasing me is real...

Now you get it?

Seems very fitting that you likened your beliefs to Malaria induced hallucination - the best part is you did it yourself.

TomHagen:
But there is evidence, evidence in the lives of those who adhere to these truths, is it anyone's fault that you have decided to close your eyes to the evidence?

Evidences or basically you trying to pass your personal gut feelings [emotions] as evidences? - it amazes me how baseless these beliefs are that there cannot boast of a tangible evidence to substantiate their beliefs.

Objective truths are established by objective evidences which are falsifiable, verifiable and can be demonstrated.

However the practise of incessant repetitions and stoic conviction in no way establishes an idea as truth.

So it's nobody's fault that you apply the dishonesty of faith in your establishment of a fraudulent subjective truth.

Your beliefs are rather based on blind faith sir.

TomHagen:
Since when did teaching bitter truths amount to 'demeaning' the world? Would you prefer sweet lies?

I'm quite happy about the fact that you didn't try to deny these clear cut reasons or try to wriggle around them.

Bitter truths or monumental lies unsupported by even an iota of evidence..

It is okay to have a belief unsupported by evidence but once you bring out this belief and teach them to the public as truth knowing fully well it is unsupported by evidence - You are both a liar and a fraud.

It is not a bitter truth, it's an absurd lie. . . .

When someone or a book knows so well what happens to you when you die, what the creator of the universe is like or the mind of God(s) - it's an effective con-job, an acidic lie that targets the most gullible of minds to garner profits.

I'd prefer objective truths not fantasies based on blind belief sir.

TomHagen:
How has Christianity 'demeaned' the world?

It teaches a world broken and hopeless due for destruction, it teaches escape from the world and not an attempt to heal it.

It makes the earth look incredibly outshown in the glamour of a golden blissful unending life of fantasy after you are dead

It teaches humans that there are originally broken, flawed, sinful and unworthy even from birth therefore needs external saving.

Demeans the very essence humanity to a pitiful state of groveling at the feet of the divine, wrathful deities seeking undiluted piety and blind faith.

Recommends blind faith over the need to study and find things out

And a thousand and one other ways - but just chew on these handful

Blaqsmith:
Johnydon22, permission to share this on my Facebook wall sir?

By all means do

CoolUsername:
The model is very effective for keeping believers in check. Indoctrination can take you a long way in blind faith but doubt may set in due to contrary evidence.

This is where fear comes in.

The irrational fear of eternal punishment is a major stumbling against critical thinking. It stayed at the back of my mind until I was fully assured that the Abrahamic definition of god was totally false. So young children or vulnerable adults undergo the form of psychological abuse in order to keep them in line.

That is why we see people telling atheists online that they are going to Hell. It is truly the worst thing that they can say, since they actually believe it.

If you want the average human out there to believe something, rope it around their ignorance [As mystery], around their fear [as a threat] or around their hope [as a promise]..

The fundamental basis of every great lie

Weah96:
The matter of the voluntary enrollment into a mandatory friendship pact with an omnipotent AND omniscient entity.

What I never managed to understand was the saga of recurrent forgiveness following one's enrollment into that mandatory friendship pact. It's like receiving the green light to commit every possible atrocity against other humans.

What originally was an idea to better the world became a tool to demean the world. . . Who ever offers someone salvation in exchange that you "believe he/she is offering you salvation" is a monumental liar.

Religion and Politics are vital tools in the control of the human society, they provide almost identical means of ensuring order and distraction in order for the society to thrive.

In a society of humans with diverse behaviourial tendencies there is a very great need to ensure order and comformity to societal guidelines and that is the sole aim of Both religion and Politics - these are necessary tools in this regard.

Religion is basically politics only that this time the authority [police, judge and jury] is divine and the punishment always posthumous.

When you talk about the very concept of Afterlife, posthumous judgement coupled with a reward or punishment scheme for the humans ancient religions like the Egyptian Religions comes to mind.

It is not only one of the oldest civilizations, several concepts and ideas both in modern art, theology, politics and science are directly influenced by it.

In the Egyptian Ma'at ; Dead souls are escorted by Anubis through the Duat to a place of final Judgement where the soul is weighed against the Ma'at, where it is expected that a Just soul deserving of eternal life should be lighter than the Ma'at.

This has always being the motif, the method, the purpose, the idea behind the concept of Judgement in very many great religions around the world, Posthumous judgement, reward and punishment schemes are used to coerce the people into living ethical lives necessary for a healthy society.

I now dabble into the wile of Abrahamism, while most religions, theologies and cultures utilize this as a tool to ensure ethical behaviours Abrahamism goes a step further, an outright sinister project that is as it Makes belief in itself the criteria for judgement not the ethical lives of the subjects.

In a lustful quest for world domination threat and fear has been a vital tool of Abrahamism, psychological terrorism.

You must believe it, you must accept it and never question it or you will not get eternal life

Nothing castigates the man-made nature of these ideas than this selfish sinister project to coerce minds into religious submissions.

Judgement in Abrahamism became more than just a test of a moral/ethical life but rather a divine project to garner belief, a divine wrath seeking undiluted retribution and piety as dictated by that particular religion.

Both the Quran and Bible [Fairly New Testament] lay explicitly how a certain type of belief is necessary for Afterlife or blissful reward of paradise.

For the Quran you must believe in One God, his messangers, his holy book and then good deeds.

Take away this belief no matter how ethical or good you must have lived, it is utterly useless and irrelevant to God, it's first requirement is "Believe in me first or you don't get it"

For the New Testament it is Faith and belief in Jesus as your lord and saviour, this faith alone is all that is needed in most recent Pentecostal Christianity, if you lack this faith and belief in Jesus, forget how ethical or moral you might have been, you are already condemned even before Judgement.

in older orthodox Christianity like Catholicism this criteria is a bit watered down with the book of James

"Faith without Good works is dead in itself"

There are also very many spelled out explicit awaiting cruel punishments for the sole act of Unbelief - which in essence is not a hurtful action either to oneself or to the society but somehow God is so feeble, insecure and vulnerable to be bothered by such act.

It seems bizarre that a divine ever watching authority cares more of whether and how your belief lies before you are considered worthy of a just judgement.

This very sinister idea reveals in Abrahamism an insatiable lust for world dominance and subjugation, there is a great need to demand belief, for blind faith and authourity conformity that these values are roped around the concept of Posthumous judgement which is strangely also regarded to be Just.

-There is nothing Just in certain Belief or practises being the criteria for a Trial - the trial in essence becomes unfair as it is not based on a fair basis.

-Nothing is Just or fair in an infinite punishment for a finite crime - that in itself is a mockery of Justice.

These doctrines create problems to which they offer themselves to be the only means to salvation from these problems.

To which i contend is not salvation but rather abuse and cheap blackmail.

I may care less about your religion, know less about it but as long as it is based on a sinister idea of posing a God who require you believe it first or it punishes you no matter how noble or ethical you must have been - it reveals a fundamental fraud and collosal lie and unjust criteria to which anyone basically humane cannot agree with.

QuietHammer:
You really consider Dawkins a militant atheist?

May Christopher Hitchen's soul rest in peace

It's refreshing when people say Militant atheist, it means people who are unfearful, explicit and unrespectful in their outspoken arguments against religions.

Talk about Militant Religionist, it becomes a different case..