₦airaland Forum

Seun:
I exist because my parents decided to have kids. Now my life is mine and I can dedicate it to any purpose that I deem worthy.

That you or i exist is a mind buggling reality ruled by a very brain quaking chance because after considering the variables, the chance that you exist is almost impossible.

Let me explain.

-If your mum and dad did not get together then there is no chance what so ever that someone like you would ever exist.

- remember it must take exactly the same Ovum and sperm cells to make the individual that is you, if these were any different the result would have been totally different.

Considering in average up to 2million sperms are injected into the vagina in a given ejaculation, only one of these is needed to fertilize the ovum and each other of these sperm cells fusing with the ovum will make a distinct individual.

If the ovum was different [even if the sperm remains same] the result would also have been different.

An average man makes billions of spermatozoons in his life time, so the odd that the sperm cell that made you would fertilize an ovum is like 1:10⁹ then consider every ovum your mum's ovary would make in her life time, chances that the particular one that made you could have been washed as menstrual blood supposing the timing was off the chance reduces to a mind buggling 0.5:10⁹…

Add grand pa, grand ma factors and it even gets slimmer, the more variables you add the slimmer it gets but yet here you are, a rare chance in a humoungous cosmic arena given an opportunity to be even as a cosmic blink.

All of us are like grains of sand in a sea shore where only one is needed to be picked, yes there are many grains but one will eventually end up being picked.

so we are here in place of billions of others - is there a more definition of rare Chance causality than this?

hahn:
Seems he was being sarcastic as well as taking a shot at dogma

Apparently thats the idea..

Edenoscar:
Has evolution now becomes peoples' opinion

People's opinion about evolution - the threads Neflheim is calling for ban are threads opened here on the religious board negating evolution, these are their opinions so they deserve the right to hold them

This is basically for people who believe in a divine predestination - that i find to be absurd.

There is no predestination, no programmed course of action you must take therefore what ever we choose to do is sorely our responsibility.

Our achievements has nothing to do with any deity neither is our short comings.

Rape is sorely the responsibility of the rapist, sorely his/her own fault and choice therefore only such a person deserve the blame.

Let's stop these ridiculous practise of channeling our faults to escape goats like God/satan/demons, witches and also stop attributing our achievement to likewise abstract concepts.

i do not support banning people's opinion, i only suggest it is moved to the appropriate section - that is more reasonable.

they are no more evil than every other God out there, Enki, enlil, yahweh, zeus, Odin, Jupiter..

Shiitposter:
Negligible, its barely noticable.
I think what he mention was on a grand (classical) scale.

Don't forget that the so called 'Grand scale' is made of negligible bits brother..

so a minisule change accumulated over time leads to a grand noticeable change..

dorox:
In a previous thread I argued that with perfect information a model can be made that could accurately predict every single event that will take place in the universe far into the future. With such a model, one can accurately predict when and where the next asteroid would hit the earth, or all the storms the earth will experience hundreds of years into the future, or the birth of a new star and the day the star dies. Such a model that can see perfectly into the future will have no random event since the cause of every event would be known and predictable.

This is true, there is a pattern that can be devised from every occurence no matter how random - take for instance you fill a cup with tiny balls, place a lid over the cup and shake the cup vigourosly, the balls will randomly be fully shaken inside the cup, hitting the edges of the cup bouncing back and hitting the other.

With the behavourial tendency of the balls and cup material, if the motion of these balls are slowed down you can accurately predict the precise movement of a particular ball inside the cup, from it's direction you can predict which part of the cup it will hit next and which direction it will bounce back towards and ultimately the next impact point.

There is a predictable tendency in even the most random systems, the only factor required is the consistency of the values.

I see chaos as useful "tools of nature", just like a sharp knife is a useful tool in the hands of an experienced chef, but a dangerous object in the hands of a kid, it is not dangerous by itself, how we interact with it makes it dangerous.

Humans define ideas on how they affect them. "Danger" is a human idea that defines things that have a negative impact on our well being and going by this definition one can refer to most part of nature as 'Dangerous to us' even though in itself Nature is neither good, dangerous, bad or loving - these are our constructs, and for this fact it is deductable that nature is indifferent to itself of which we are part of.

We can agree that nature is just right for man to exist otherwise we won't be around to ask the question. Whether or not it was made to accommodate us is a question whose answer depends on our view of whether or not God exist.

If we answer yes to the question of whether there is God, then we would see nature as created with the objective of accommodating man. But if we answer no to where God exist, every existence including nature and man becomes accidental.

Fair enough - so what do you think, nature was made for man by God/creator *NB: A creator is not necessarily a God and a God is not necessarily a creator*

or is nature indifferent and has an accidental uncharted effect of which man is part of?

ValentineMary:
This is one of christianity teachings I find ridiculous. Babies have no conscious mind, so on what basis are they sinners because 2 guys ate a fruit. Should they be punished because of what they know nothing of it is inhuman to teach kids that they were sinners before they were born.

It is not only inhumane, it's stupi_d... teaching innocent babies that they are broken, unworthy and at fault over something they have no idea of or neither does it concern them.

Absurdity taken to a whole new level

Are there other phone brands aside Tecno?


just asking

kolaish:
it is never possible for the Bible (a book) to record all things that happened in those days, just think of it. The bible only records those that were closely linked to Jesus either physically or spiritually.

So something as basic as the man who committed adultry with the woman is then excused?

This is a lame excuse..

If it's so why then mention the woman at all

there is no business more lucrative than selling afterlife for money because nobody will actually come back and demand for a refund when the goods is not delivered.

It's evily Genius and the ultimate hustle.

Religious leaders keep asking their members to forgo the riches of the world and make riches in heaven but they keep stashing riches here and on earth and keep collecting the little of the masses have.
Can't people stop and ask themselves " do they really believe what they preach?"

It is nothing short of Holy robbery..

Seun:
We occupy such a small part of the universe, and have existed for such a short time compared to the age of the universe, the earth, or even life on earth, that I'd say that it is absurd to even entertain the notion that the universe and nature were created for us. Especially when we have no evidence that the universe was created by a conscious being who had a particular purpose for creating it.

Good points - so basically we are one of the numerous accidental effects of a random chaotic uncharted cosmic dance?

byteHead:
What i mean is that d entire universe follows the same laws. And these laws never change.

while this is true, i believe you'd be surprise just how weirdly bizzarre nature is, there are lots of surprises.

Your coffee left on a counter will always become cool. Gravity remains steady, never random.

Elaborate on the steady gravity.

The speed of light remains constant. The earth rotates in 24 hours.

I believe the earth is slowing down actually..

orunto27:
Question irrelevant. God created humans, gave humans Conscience to know good and bad. He also not only show but gave humans Light and the Way to Salvation. So when you do bad, you willingly choose, out of your Conscience the Freedom to do bad. God doesn't plan for evil, but knows and punishes one when it's committed.

is this another way of saying "God does not know?"

but since you find it unthinkable to assert God doesn't know something you had fo bring up with unnecessary rigmarole with even answering the question

byteHead:
Nature is relentless and unchangeable and it is indiffernt as to whether its actions and hidden reasons are understable to man or not.

Probably d most daunting task dat we face as rational animals is d contemplation of our own relative weight in d scheme ofthings. Our place in d universe is so unimaginably small dat we cannot contemplate it for so long due to our egoistic minds. Also d realization dat we may be quite random as presences on earth gives scant comfort.

What do you mean Nature is Unchangeable?

DoctorAlien:
johnydon22,

LOL. To help you understand why there would be no choice to sin in Heaven: do you have any choice right now but to breathe? If no, why?

Yes i can choose to hold my breath - very wrong example

Why don't you question nature as to why food has to go through the mouth and why the heart always has to beat? Doesn't that make us mindless drones who have no choice but to continue to eat through the mouth, and have a noise-making drum in our chests?

digestive system did not require your opinion before being there and it is different from actions due to volition because it requires what you want or choose to do.

Body parts are different from volitive action, sin is a volitive action and therefore must require the mind to or not to do it.

…… i must say these are rather weak defence and they are disappointing.

LOL. I think the answer to the sex question is "it is not needed there."

why?

We will eat in Heaven.

You just contradicted yourself again, just few posts above you are the one that said there is no eating.

I believe you now know you are the person right who is choosing what you think will happen in heaven or not using "God chooses" as a validating line.

To imply that we cannot explore the vast expanse of GOD's Creation in Heaven would be a heavy lie.

And sex is not part of God's creation? - You see brother this is still weak.

DoctorAlien:
johnydon22,

The choice to be in Heaven, first of all, is made here on earth. By striving to enter Heaven, you know you're striving to enter a place where you can't sin.

I desire to behold GOD's glory. Such glory that transcends the beauty of the Universe. It's a choice, anyway.

" You're right. We won't have the choice to sin again in Heaven.

That was your assertion as regards the state of being in heaven, the choice in question is not about earthly choices or why you want to go to heaven.

The issue about the bolded words above - doesn't that your idea show that heaven make mindless drones out of humans?

Hmm. It seems sex is important to you. If you miss Heaven, you won't get the sex either. You can only have sex here on earth. We'll eat in Heaven, anyway. Jesus promised not to taste of the fruit of the vine again until He does so with us in Heaven.

This in no way addresses the question - the question is simple, why you think there'd be no sex, food and marriage in heaven but there'd be study, travel and houses?

The Bible says there will be no sea in the new earth which GOD will make. Asking the question "is anything wrong with sex?" is just like asking "is anything wrong with the sea?"

'No more sea' in no way means "no more water' because a sea is not the only configuration of earthly water bodies known.

So the question remains - why do you think 'Food and sex' are absolute exemptions even though we still have needs like for study, houses and mansions - why not for these too?

GOD decided two of them won't be in Heaven.

God did really? Or you did?

- I don't remember any part of the bible suggesting interstellar travel / study as the heavenly pass time activities either.

so?

DoctorAlien:
You're right. We won't have the choice to sin again in Heaven.

that is more so unhuman way to live and without choice makes one just a mindless droid..

So heaven makes one mindless?

Those who will be saved are those who recognise that even eternity is not enough to tell of GOD's glory.

For what purpose exactly is repeating God's glory going to serve?

- it will make God happier than he/she already is?
-make it more powerful?
-make more Godly than it already is?

Jesus Christ tells us we will be like angels in Heaven. Neither sex nor procreation is needed in Heaven. The population of Heaven is innumerable. The urge for sex won't even be there.

there is a difference between need for sex [human procreation] and urge [libido]

So why then would we have urge to study, travel, praise, recognizs joy and bliss but not other impulses not to talk of one as intrinsic as sex?

Doesn't this contradict your post that " We will live like normal Humans in Heaven. We will build houses"

why do you think sex is No but others are yes?

Is there anything wrong in sex ?

Yes. We'll learn in Heaven. Any type of wholesome learning you can think of.

Why would we need houses, mansions, study and travel but not others like sex, food and marriage?

Sounds like a selective interface due to doctrinal preference..

DoctorAlien:
Hmm. I can relate to your feelings. Some people also feel that it is useless to be alive.

There is no forced praise in Heaven. Even here on earth, we admire and stand in awe of great men. We even sing their praises. Why? Because we feel they are worthy of it, either by virtue of their statuses or by virtue of their achievements. That is exactly what's gonna happen in Heaven. As we see GOD for how awesome He is, we cannot resist praising Him.

A human certainly can as a being with choice unless you take away the ability to choose - Only then can the bolded hold true ego it becomes forced.

There's no marriage in Heaven. There's no sex there. There's no need for that.

Doesn't this then contradict your very own assertion above " We will live like normal Humans in Heaven. We will build houses"

even study and travel - what then is there to be more human than sex, food and marriage..

Why then do you think they are unneeded but study, building and travelling are ...?

We won't have this type of bodies, actually, in Heaven. We'll be like angels.

Who happens to need houses and golden mansions - Yes?

DoctorAlien:
1. GOD is infinite. He is a mystery in Himself. Moreover, His ways and His thinking is far above our finite comprehension. A Creator who is able to bring this highly complex Universe into existence is certainly can't be discovered fully even throughout eternity. In Heaven, as we continue to discover how majestic and excellent and magnificent He is, we would only be compelled to praise Him the more.

- First comprehending infinity is useless and irrelevant. ever wondered why nobody has bothered trying to find out just how far numbers [1,2,3....] goes...

-Second so it all boils down to praising God for all time?

-Third, wont this creator be undoubtedly more complex, precise and beautiful than the universe in your own idea?

2. We will live like normal Humans in Heaven. We will build houses, aside the mansions we would own in GOD's golden city, Jerusalem. We will study. We will continue to discover more about GOD's creation. We don't know how many stars there are in the Universe now, but we will know then. We can travel to any galaxy we want and check out anything we want. We will have all eternity to unravel the mystery and beauty of Creation.

What about sex, marriage and food we get to do those too?

I'd like to hear more ideas [distinct ] and more points to support these ideas.

Do you think nature was made for man or is indifferent of man's existence

Donffdd, cloudgoddess, weah96, frank317, CoolUsername

DoctorAlien:
LOL. Please help me edit that word "exhibit" in my post to "exert." Thank you.

These "tugs" from all the celestial bodies would then tend to balance each other out, since no significant change is observed in the size of the earth's orbit. Something like an equilibrium of forces. What do you think?

That is the values behind the calculus in the pertubation theory but these forces surely have effect on each other which lead to subtle changes of differing magnitude.

The Orbital mechanics are under the Chaos theory

DoctorAlien:
1.Exploring GOD Himself.
2. Exploring His Creation.

elaborate on both

DoctorAlien:
1. There will be no death.
2. There will be no disease of any form.
3. There will be no stress. There will be no hunger.
4. GOD Himself will be seen face to face.
5. There will be no war. There will be no insecurity.

Ok what are people going to be doing with all that time?

DoctorAlien:
What is the magnitude of the gravitational force of attraction between the earth and the sun? Can small celestial bodies "pull" the earth any farther from the sun by the virtue of the gravitational force of attraction they can exert on the earth?

Yes there are slight tugs from every celestial object within the gravitational horizone of another - while these slight changes may be less noticeable on the bigger body [as the earth's effect on the sun is] there is still a very subtle effect...

DoctorAlien:
Pheew! I have many things to say about Heaven. It's a place of endless bliss. All the things that make us sad here won't be there.

I can very much assure you that all my thoughts on the question are contained in that link.

Alrights just one more question ..

Mention at least 5 things that you "think" will make heaven a blissful place?

DoctorAlien:
Find purely biblical answers to those questions here: www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/29/t/heaven-is-it-for-real

I'd very much like to know your thoughts on the question.

DoctorAlien:
Scientists are still experimenting on the ability of Mars to support life. Life has not been discovered outside earth.

We know brother...

So do you have more points to tender?

DoctorAlien:
Hmm. Well, I still believe there is an optimum temperature of the sun at which life is possible.

I do not think it is wise enough to still cling on to such "belief" even when shown otherwise, that'd be intellectual dishonesty my brother...

At least we agree that the distance round the earth's orbit is fixed.

No sir very many factors also at different times affect earth's orbit that are not the Aphelion and perihelion...

- Tidal effects
-Gravitational tugs from smaller celestial objects that crosses near earth
- The orbital eccentricity change --> there are times earth's orbit become more seeming circular and also at some times more elliptical..
-Mass loss/gain of the earth.

There are many factors that contribute to this imprecise orbital dance, the orbit of the earth is neither fixed or precise but has subtle changes from time to time though most likely still goes unnoticed on a normal ground.

DoctorAlien:
johnydon22,

I admit that I hadn't rendered my statement in the best words that would portray what I had I mind.

I should have said "If the earth's orbit is expanded or reduced by even 1 metre, there would be catastrophe."

It won't sir such a change is miniscule and very much so insignificant - If you said something like "If the earth was moved as far as the orbit of Mars, that'd would have been better "

and such a change is not insignificant as a 1 meter drift...

As far as we know even Mars has a possibility of habouring life, Saturn's moon Titan [farther than both Mars and jupiter] not only shows sign of liquid [probably methane] but also signatures of Organic compounds vital for life - in fact it is one of the most highly likely "life spot" in the system even though it is way off the 'Goldilock zone]

so sir slight shift in the earth's orbit will have no or insignificant effect on the earth or life on it.