₦airaland Forum

Gggg102:
So that means the op is a strawman.

KingEbukasBlog:
@johnnydon22

I'm glad you do accept that these are fictional, illusionary or imaginary orders in your worldview as an atheist. But I do have good logical arguments to demonstrate that indeed rationality, mathematics, equality, freewill, moral responsibility , objective morality etc are not fictional but objectively real in a theistic worldview

KingEbukasBlog:
I have been called generous, humble, kind, stupid, brilliant, selfless, selfish etc. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about anything or anyone.

And no, no one can remain the same. There will be always change.Hope you as good, bro. Long time o

orunto27:
Atheists are superstitious period. And they are scared of Witches.

KingEbukasBlog:
Very likely that they didn't understand the topic. I tried my best to keep it simple sha .

KingEbukasBlog:
God's existence grounds the realness of objective morality, equality of man and woman, liberty or freedom of man, laws of mathematics, moral responsibility which is the corollary of being free, rights, rationality, the laws of logic, the uniqueness of man,

Without God, equality, liberty, rights, mathematics, moral responsibility etc are just useful fictions created by man to understand the world and cooperate effectively.

Meaning, they dont exist in actuality or reality -

if there is no God, they cannot be objectively real.

Instead, they only exist in our inter-subjective reality: if we believe they exist, they become "real", if we dont, then they stop existing.

Just as God, which atheists claim is not real, the aforementioned are just objects of fiction invented by man! Ridiculous, right?

Many atheists dont know or realize this.

So, let's explore the reality of the non-existence of God and realize the folly in its fullness.

EQUALITY : If there is no God that grounds the ontological equality( our souls by nature makes us equal ) of man and woman - the soul of man and woman are equal before God - how can we say that that we are equal? What makes us equal? In what way are we equal? Equality, if there is no God, becomes a fictional creation of man to enable a functional society. The realness of equality only exists in our inter-subjective reality: if we stop believing that man and women are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities, then it fails to exist. In the same vein, we can also create fictions like we are innately unequal that would enable a hierarchy -based society, just as ancient societies did. At this point, you can see clearly that there is no reason to denigrate patriarchy or believe that women deserve equal rights as men. Or that slavery is not okay. Slaves were once believed to have an inherent "slavish-nature". Racists can choose to believe the inequality of races or the inherent superiority of particular races to others. People who believe men are superior can point to patriarchal societies as evidence that women are inferior to men. In the future, people would be able to genetically enhance themselves to have superior physical & mental qualities, in what way would anyone prove that they are equal to unenhanced, average people?

FREEDOM AND LIBERTY, MORAL RESPONSIBILITY : If there is no God that created us and gave us souls to be free and have liberty, then we are slaves to the laws of nature,

which are responsible for all that exists, according to naturalists. What makes us free? Our souls, the immaterial part of us created by God which give us the ability to make choices. Souls are not bound by the laws of nature, because they are not elements of the natural world. If you deny the existence of souls created by God and insist we are wholly physical beings, then our choices are inevitably determined by the laws of nature. That means there is no moral responsibility. There is no moral responsibility without freewill. I can't be held responsible or accountable for my actions since there were not freely committed. The laws of nature should be culpable for any action performed by all purely physical beings. The actions of man would be no different from those of the hurricane or storm or animals. Eg. Stalin and Hitler ordered the killings of millions of people and the destruction of properties, if these were not free actions, then they are no different from those of natural disasters like typhoons and hurricanes since they all operate under the laws of nature. So clearly, you being responsible for your moral actions is some illusion or fiction that you "chose" or made to believe. . There won't be rewards and punishments which are necessary for a functional society. Why should I be punished or rewarded for what the laws of nature did?

RATIONALITY : Same can be said about rationality. We are not freely thinking since we have no freedom or will as subjects of the laws of nature. How can I tell if what I believe is indeed true if I cannot freely figure them out myself? How can I know what's true? If I'm not free to think, then I'm not thinking. My thoughts are just whatever the laws of nature make me think. That is scary is, right? That is what you get when you deny God's existence. You are not rational in essence, you are simply outputting inputs given to you by the laws of nature. So indeed, we are just under the illusion of being rational. Rationality or reason is not real, it is just some fiction we choose the belief in. This reality would also undermine logical conclusions.

MATHEMATICAL LAWS : Does 1+1 really equal 2? Is it an objective and necessary truth that 2+1 equals 3? Are numbers and the laws of mathematics just useful fictions invented by man to understand the world? Isn't it crazy to deny the realness of mathematics and it's applicability in the physical world? How can objective reality be represented by something subjectively defined by man? If there is no God whose existence grounds the realness of mathematics, then they are just objects of fictions, mere abstractions, that dont exist outside the human mind. Philosophers like Plato and St Augustine argued that the mathematical truths are objective, unchanging and such cannot be products of a changing and temporary world - this means they are part of an immutable or unchanging, immaterial reality which is beyond the physical world, thus transcendent. And this proves the existence of a transcendent immaterial mind who is responsible for this transcendent reality of mathematics. The physical reality, as Plato argued, is dependent on a transcendent reality. That's why we can use mathematics - objects of a transcendent reality - to understand the physical world

UNIQUENESS OF MAN : Do you believe you are significant and different from animals, thus unique and special? Who told you that? Oh, that's just some fictional BS you've been told and made to believe.

Do you realize that being subjects to the laws of nature, you are not free, you are not rational, you are a purely physical being, and your actions are already determined by the laws of nature? You are not different from other components of nature whose existence and functionality wholly depend on the laws of nature. You evolved from lower life forms, just as every other animal; sentient just as many other animals. You are purely physical and subject to the laws of nature, just like every other natural thing!

RIGHTS : Ugh! Don't tell me you actually think you have rights. That's just some made-up shit invented by man that grants us access to natural resources or any kind of resources. And guess who believe that too? Atheists! Remember, in the book of Genesis, God told Adam, the representative of mankind, that he has dominion over whatever that exists on earth: He's been given rights. But if there is no God, on what basis do we have rights?? None, if you "think" really hard about that. Because it's all fictional.

OBJECTIVE MORALITY : Do you believe that everyone should agree that it is good to love one another, to be fair, just and kind to one another, to not kill, oppress the poor etc. Now, imagine if we stopped believing that. We can go ahead to murder, hate, oppress and be unjust to another and choose to see it as a good thing. History is replete which such atrocious actions perpetrated by man. But if right or wrong is all fictional, subjective or inter-subjective, based on the whims of man, no objective standard since only God's nature provides that, then we can do all sorts of things without condemnation, because all things are permitted if there is no God. The Nazis can conclude that their actions are right and the Holocaust was morally "good", Rwanda genocide can be "justified", because without a transcendent moral authority, who makes the rules and why do you think anyone is morally obligated to follow them? So if there is no God, man is simply under the illusion that there are objectively good or bad things, and we can condemn or praise people for doing " good " or "bad" things.

CONCLUSION: So that's it, guys! Atheists assert that God is an object of fiction made up by man to understand and navigate the natural world, without understanding the implications: there is no equality, liberty, rights, mathematical laws, moral responsibility, rationality, objective morality etc. They are objects of fiction, just like God, invented by man to make sense of the world he lives in. You do realize they believe they are smart because they dont believe a particular object of fiction, God, while believing other fictions? Lol

peggywebbs:
I don't agree with you o. There are many things that don't exist and I don't see anyone talking about it everyday. I don't believe fairies exist and I don't raise topics about it. You athiests constantly raise topics about God everyday.

And please when you talk about the murder of millions in religion you all are still in error. How can you blame God for the murder of millions. You people have failed to seperate the work of a human being from that of a God you don't believe exist.

If a Christian kills it's the same as when a non believer kills.

You kill with your hands, God doesn't put the guns in anybody's hands because he wants people to fight his battles.

You keep comparing psychopaths that hide under religion. Extremism is not the work of God, it is just a mental patient with a bible.

And again God is omnipotent and yes he has enemies because the last time I checked we all have free will. It's the free will we have that allows you to come on nairaland to oppose the idea of a God. Like I said many times before your problem is not God, it is man. Man to man. Just as you don't believe in God, some other crazy people believe in aliens, some crazy people believe that when they fight for God they get virgins ,some will even think killing enemies of God means they get a share in ruling heaven. These are all mental patients.

peggywebbs:
You people have come again. The same God you don't believe in but is in your hearts and mind everyday.

Anyway the omnipotent God has a lot of enemies including you ungrateful elements that do not appreciate the reason for your existence.

However , because he is merciful and loving that is why you are still living and witnessing the beauty of his creation.

You people will definitely experience God..those that fought harder than you have much to say. Good night you'all

elated177:
Johnydon22, get behind me!

blueAgent:
That does not make the trinity doctrine right.

The truth remains that only God the Father is the only self existent God, Jesus is the Son who is also God by Inheritance

, the Holy spirit is not God but the spirit of God

and all three are not co-eternal or equal as claimed by the fraud trinity doctrine.

elated177:
Get behind me, johnydon22.

blueAgent:
Note: There is nothing like God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit in the Bible.

I agree with you that Jesus came out from the father, as this can be proved with Bible verses and Jesus on words.

but the Holyspirit is not a God but the spirit of God, it is not a person distinct as the father and son are, but it is the spirit of God and his son which represents their presence,power, will, mind.

Note no where in the Bible are we told to worship or pray to the Holyspirit.

blueAgent:
I have never seen trinitarians answer this questions.

elated177:
.


Get behind me, Johnydon22.

jamesid29:
I actually do sir, that's why I pointed it out. You can Google around to fact check. ( Just to be clear sir, population in evolutionary biology doesn't mean every single member of a specie).

I think this is a fairly good description of evolution in the biological sense (though not without it's fault):
Evolution occurs when new gene variants (i.e alleles) are produced by random mutation, and over the course of many generations, natural selection may favor advantageous variants, causing them to become more common in the population.... .

The statement "Populations evolve, individual organism do not" is basically beaten into your head when u first begin to learn evolution by natural selection.

jamesid29:
Individual organisms don't evolve. Populations evolve.

FreelanceRebel:
The universe occurs for no tangible reason but it is what it is today due to constant struggle by all species to survive and keep their offspring growing.

Evolution makes all surviving instinct work for many species, development of certain attributes for protection or gaining an edge over another species.

For human beings it took another dimension in the sense that instead of developing physical attribute to help him survive, he went ahead to develop mental superiority over all species.

Human beings is the only species to have make an attempt to cross it limits into another planet and he succeeded in doing that.

Am not evolution expert but i suppose evolution cannot be influenced by any individuals species but through collective transmission of thought. I could put it this way that evolution is independent of any individual species but must be collective progress all members of the group.

The only weakness of all species is death, but

what if the stages of evolution as gone past the level of death and its no longer a threat to universe survival?

What if death is another step to evolve into the next stages of life?

In generation to come, the whole solar system will be gone, which implies death to every thing, but why should all perish when evolution has kept everything to survive?

If evolution is through from the beginning, then death is the next phase.
After life has no proof due to *no witness* but we can hold some experiences as a clue.

Science has failed to solve the problem of death, diseases, sickness which are common to all.

Science cannot solve all problems,

but in a gradual process nature will fix itself,

which may require giving up this polluted world that causes death, sickness and disease , at the end a new world or universe will evolve or must have evolved giving chance to dead to migrate into it as occupant.

If we should go by evolution, this is not the end.

SKhanmi:
Hmmm,I see the freethinkers & those who quote from facts stated by fallible humans like them.

Well, I don't think the earth is flat, a part of it might be due to a glancing blow from a meteorite eons ago.

There are strong claims to that on the net but until I see am with my own eyes,I'll take it with a Congo of salt. I guess that's where the flat earth theories come from.

As for NASA,believe them at your own peril.

If we could put man on the moon then,why be sending satellites now when we have more superior tech? Think of that.

By now,colonies should be on the moon,exploiting its resources, vacations to the moon should be possible but they are sending probes? Doesn't add up.

By the way,always consider the fact that whoever controls what you see,read or hear can pull facts out of their ass & it would become law because they are acclaimed credible institutions.

Most humans will never get on a rocket to see for themselves anyway , so always maintain an openmind for possibilities

elated177:
Man on a mission, Johnydon22.

You chose darkness. You don't have the power to pull me into it. I am light. Light triumphs over darkness, every time.

This is one light you cannot quench.

frank317:
They fear everything... The devil and his fleets of demons, they fear cats, bats, owl, crying children, atheists, Muslims and even the so called God they worship.

Image123:
i think you should read the Scriptures again and again, not my question. Nothing lolful about it except as usual, you fail to think/reason. Let me break it down for you like you are 4 year old.

Are all doctors true doctors?
Are all prophets true prophets?
Are all accounts true accounts?
Are all medicine true/genuine medicine?
Are all accents true accents?
Are all body parts true body parts?
Are all statements true statements?

EMILO2STAY:
If the ball lacks the mass then get a heavy ball and conduct the experiment.

gravity is only a theory and not a fact.

Experiments show things fall down when thrown up due to their density and buoyancy and not because an invisible force called gravity pulls them down.

Example is when you throw a nail and a feather from the same height the nail will fall down first because it is heavier if gravity is true it should pull them down at the same time.

Again When we jump up we fall back due to our density not because of an invisible force called gravity.

example when you lift an object 10kg and an object 50kg you notice 50kg is heavier because it has more weight not because gravity prefers to push it down more than the 10kg weight.

I must say you are not making sense from your point number 3 downwards.

So your saying any object with much density should attract object to themselves? Were have you seen this happen?

And pls up and down perspective are not relative. They clearly differ from each other if you doubt me then try walking on the wall or try walking on your ceiling or hanging your self upside down. And see if you will not notice any difference from when your standing up right. or are you telling there is no up and down on a ball?

8 inch per square mile is observable and experiments have been conducted proving the earth flat.

peggywebbs:
I don't know anything about what the shape of the earth looks like. It can be a table for all I care.

The fact however is no one has ever been to space. Not even robot or humans. It's all a deceptive play of power that was happening between the Russians and the United States then.

Do you think it's impossible for a country to cook up an event secretly and with the amount of money and resources within their power, fake the moon exploration?

If it was true that scientists went to the moon, how come they haven't made any attempt in the last 50 years.

The so called NASA claimed that they deleted most of the pictures and videos that were taken. They were only able to recover some pictures from media broadcasts.

Now they claim that it is expensive to go to space and they don't have the technology to get anyone there.

People will still argue that the technology is obsolete and they can't get the parts in this age. What a joke.

Aircrafts were invented years ago and they keep improving on the models but yet they claim they can't reconstruct a space rocket to take humans again to space.

If it was successful for them to go to space, don't you think by now people would have been spending vacation in space.

For those saying they get live map views of what the earth looks like on the outside, very funny is it not what you feed computer with that it gives you. Its possible to have satellites at higher altitudes around the earths atmosphere but in space, that's just a hula balu.

@OP, I don't know if it's true the earth is flat or a sphere but as far as I know I can walk, run, jump,sit and I'm not falling off, then I know the earth is balanced to accommodate humans.

The United States have a history of spreading lies to make it seem true.

Are they not the same country that claim to have developed an atomic bomb that is large enough to destroy the world and yet people believe.

EMILO2STAY:
lol saying a lot with out saying anything, that is how you atheist confuse people into thinking your making sense.

Oga why don't you conduct a little experiment of placing a microscopic object under a ball and see if it will stick to it due gravity.

So now your trying to tell me that the people in australia are upside down but they don't know it right? ,

then tell me,.. A plane flying from Russia to australia, does it fly and turn upside down when it gets to australia? Pls answer me.

And in case you don't know the curvature of the earth is said to be 8inch per square mile. So it is observable

Again how does the large body of water like the ocean stick to a ball earth, I know you will say gravity but explain it how.

Because you and i know that water is an element that always find its level no matter the shape of its container. Let me stop here.

WinningEleven:
isaiah 40:22 talks about the glory of Jehovah said.......

".......HE IS THE ONE WHO DWELLS/ENTHROED/SITS ABOVE THE CIRCLE OF THE EARTH"

I've said enough here.

EMILO2STAY:
are you serious right now. A sphere remains a sphere no matter what is on it microscopic or atomic.

Seems do not even understand the concept of the ball earth you believe in.

If according to ball earth scientist ships disappearing over the horizon is evidence of a ball earth, then tell me why humans standing on the wouldn't know it if they are standing on a ball.

Tell me if you were to be reduced to microscopic size and were to be put standing under a ball, will you not notice that you are standing upside down? Such is the the case for people in australia, they would be walking this earth almost upside down if the earth was round.

OLAADEGBU:
It is actually atheists that are paranoid. Check today's news and see how paranoid atheists are now causing what they term as "extinction rebellion" making a nuisance of themselves everywhere.

London faces another two weeks of disruption by Extinction Rebellion
Richard Hartley-Parkinson Monday 7 Oct 2019 7:05 am

Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/07/london-travel-chaos-for-two-weeks-as-extinction-rebellion-plan-more-protests-10873337/

EMILO2STAY:
conspiracy theory? I bet you are not standing on a sperical object while typing this. Let me ask you, does it look like your standing on a ball right now? When you build a house why don't you design the floor to be sperical in shape. Let me stop here because I have is just too much.

MuttleyLaff:
"Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power:
for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."
- Revelation 4:11

johnydon22, I am sure you do the same and/or similar, as like God, in Revelation 4:11 above. Your living room with canvas art abstract wall hangings, your window sills decorated with different kind of ornaments and your tables covered with cherished moments picture frames? What are they all doing, whats their purpose, huh?