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Christianity Etc › Re: I Am No Longer Identifying As An Atheist. by johnydon22(m): 11:56pm On Nov 08, 2016

GrizzlyBear:
I agree with the bolded.

That means there is just NATURE - Ignorance doesn't make something super...

Because that would mean when we were ignorant of the existence of Neptune, it was supernatural..

Any part of nature we are ignorant of is still just "Nature" coining out words such as "supernatural" to describe them severes the context.

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Christianity Etc › Re: I Am No Longer Identifying As An Atheist. by johnydon22(m): 11:51pm On Nov 08, 2016

Deicide:
Base on your Definition no physical plane No nature?

I think you need to find another defination cause it contradict the first point you made..

Yes it can - there may be more than just universe just as there are more
than 1 galaxy. . . Nature can exist without any part just as you can exist
without your hands.

Since when did the universe become the definition for physical plain - i have no time to start arguing over your own misunderstanding.

Nature is the physical plain, universe exist in this physical plain - two different things for christ sake.

Therefore the physical plain [nature] can exist without the universe but the universe cannot without the physical plain - its so simple.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: I Am No Longer Identifying As An Atheist. by johnydon22(m): 11:45pm On Nov 08, 2016

GrizzlyBear:
What we tag as "supernatural" are just aspects of the natural world that we don't have sufficient knowledge of.

I am sorry GrizzlyBear but this words make it obvious you have a different meaning of supernatural than the conventional way.

That a part of nature is unknown doesn't make it super, it means it's unknown.. so as your words up there goes what you term 'supernatural' can simply be tagged 'Natural' just not known yet. . . Yes?

Then i think the word 'Supernatural' is irrelevant in this regard since it will connote a context that makes that part of nature seem unnatural.

Summary of your post up there is that "Supernatural is the word to describe man's ignorance of nature"

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: I Am No Longer Identifying As An Atheist. by johnydon22(m): 11:38pm On Nov 08, 2016

KingEbukasBlog:
Thanks . I still remember

Cool so humbly teach others too as i took time to teach you - that's how we develop ourselves and let others share in it.

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Christianity Etc › Re: I Am No Longer Identifying As An Atheist. by johnydon22(m): 11:36pm On Nov 08, 2016

Deicide:
Can Nature Exist without the Universe and what is Nature?

Yes it can - there may be more than just universe just as there are more than 1 galaxy. . . Nature can exist without any part just as you can exist without your hands.

It may be defined as the totality of the Physical plain.

Is nature Subjected to the Universe or The Universe Subjected to Nature?

Universe is subject to nature.

What is the Relationship between Nature And the Universe?

This depends on the boundaries of nature if there be one - As Physics goes our universe may just be a tiny part of nature.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: I Am No Longer Identifying As An Atheist. by johnydon22(m): 11:31pm On Nov 08, 2016

GrizzlyBear:
I think some people actually do fancy labels. Some people see labels as a jet pack that lifts them to lofty intellectual zeus-like palaces, where they sit arrogantly, and smile sneeringly at the perceived unintelligence of others. Or people adopting labels because they sound cool, or because they are being adopted by cool people, and they feel like belonging to such unit.

That's why you have people adopting labels like "feminism" and "secular humanist," without fully understanding what these labels even mean, or practicing the precise tenets that these labels fundamentally espouse.

I'm an astrophile - i have intense love for stars, i seat and watch them for hours at night - i use this label just to connote in a simple way an important part of me.

That exactly is the context of using the word "atheist" its just a simple way to lay out a simple part of you.

People are bound to read meanings into words that are stackly not related, people are bound to subtly mostly unconsiously add more to a word than it is.

Take "Abo_ki" as an example, that word is simple a word for "My friend" in hause, simple and beautiful expression that is.

but in the nigeria of today, it is seen with a lot of condescension that "ab_oki" is now a popular insult.

I wonder when "My friend" became an insult. [ even nairaland censored the word "abok_i" to "northerner" now you get what i am saying]

So that someone attaches arrogance to the word "atheist/atheism" it doesn't change the simple nature of the word, it is only a mark of naivete or ignorance on the person's part and true intelligence is knowing that subtle unrelated attachments subconsciously or by implication into a word does not affect the actual humble meaning of the word.

Atheism is simply a word just like Astrophile - Another astrophile somewhere else may think being astrophile makes him a human with more depth than others but this is incorrect, its just a personal delusion and has nothing to do with that word Astrophile which is just a humble lingual connotation.

Christianity Etc › Re: I Am No Longer Identifying As An Atheist. by johnydon22(m): 11:19pm On Nov 08, 2016

KingEbukasBlog:
Finally an "atheist" who understands my litany of complaints about how arrogant ,ignorant and close minded most atheists are . Atheism simply means no Gods and you can hold other beliefs and hypothesis about life and the existence of everything .

Well done bro . Its surprising its coming from you though .

cc : winner01 , felixomor , naijadeyhia , richirich713 -my brothers , someone finally gets it

I still remember having to clear you on this - Not long ago you also thought atheism means disbelief in spirits/voodoos or spirity things.

i'm quite glad

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: I Am No Longer Identifying As An Atheist. by johnydon22(m): 11:17pm On Nov 08, 2016

Deicide:
This is Illogical!! Can you Explain to me How those Stuff doesn't connect to a God(The Creator)

Nature can exist with or without humans - the illogical assertion is to think that for nature to exist [and humans are natural beings] therefore there must be humans - it's untrue - nature can swimmingly be with or without humans.

And just as nature is not subjected to the existence of humans to be, so is the supernatural [if such a thing be] is not subjected to the existence of deities to be. .

I gave an example with humans to show the relationship. . By concept God(s) are supernatural beings just as humans are natural beings - the plains of existence [natural] or [supernatural] can be with or without certain being inside them.

2 Likes 1 Share

Christianity Etc › Re: I Am No Longer Identifying As An Atheist. by johnydon22(m): 11:05pm On Nov 08, 2016*

GrizzlyBear:
I honestly don't fancy these labels. I am just a curious human being who values knowledge and truth, and who is constantly caliberating his logical metric and moral scruples to precisely detect religious, philosophical and epistemological bullshit.

Exactly nobody fancy labels, do you think an astrophile [someone who loves stars] chose the label?

No! it's simply a lingual concept to connote a person who loves stars, there is no limit to the label "atheist/atheism"

It does not have requirements or rule or set of things you need to believe or agree with - you may not really call yourself that or often use the tag.

As long as you have no belief in God(s) - that's all to it.

3 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: I Am No Longer Identifying As An Atheist. by johnydon22(m): 10:57pm On Nov 08, 2016

Let me see if i can iron things out for GrizzlyBear, not addressing yourself as an atheist doesn't make one less atheistic than others, for someone who do not believe in God(s) the lingual label for that is "Atheist" whether you agree to it or not.

You may loath the intellectual arrogance of some atheists which most times i regard as a delusion, the idea that "atheism is synonymous to intellectual superiority" you may wish to attack that but the whole show of "i'm not an atheist but i don't believe in God(s) is as laughable as pointing at your laptop and say "this is no longer a computer, it is a laptop"

I can even argue that the word "atheist" should not exist - the only reason the word atheist exist is because the subject of God is a matter of global cultural concern, it reaps much opinion of the greater populace.

We don't have labels for those who don't play football, or drink beer or those who don't play basketball.. we don't look at a person who don't play basketball and say "Hey that guy is abasketic" its ludicrous.

I agree there is a limit to tags, i myself would love a boundless nature or way of seeing myself but the world make up these tags and labels not a name you give yourself or a religion you join.

By virtue of unbelief in deities there is no such thing as i'm no longer an atheist.

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Christianity Etc › Re: I Am No Longer Identifying As An Atheist. by johnydon22(m): 10:49pm On Nov 08, 2016

UyiIredi:
It's surprising that an atheist believe in supernatural phenomena. If it is indeed the case that you believe in such GrizzlyBear how do you account for it ?

Someone can be atheistic and believe in Ghosts, Fairies, spirits, zombies, vampires.

Atheist simply is a label for those who don't believe in God(s)... Nothing more nothing less.

6 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: Songs Of The Worlds By Johnydon22 by johnydon22(op): 11:27am On Nov 08, 2016

nigeriafilm:
pls what can I do to get myself off that muslim credo I earlier accept

Wait for a few days it will go out on it's own..

Christianity Etc › Re: Songs Of The Worlds By Johnydon22 by johnydon22(op): 8:24am On Nov 08, 2016

LoJ:
I did wanted to post a reply, but since it is in the muslim section, I can't except I accept the muslim credo

its simply nonsensical... lots of bigoted fanatical mods here.

Christianity Etc › Re: Songs Of The Worlds By Johnydon22 by johnydon22(op): 7:59am On Nov 08, 2016

Seun i opened a thread in the religious section Islam and the 21st century and a mod moved it to the Islam for muslim section - who in the world told that mod i intended it to be in that section.

Please i will like my article brought back to the religious section because i have no business in the muslim section..

My article is an address to a religion

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Christianity Etc › Re: Atheism Is A Self- Contradictory And Illogical Concept by johnydon22(m): 7:47pm On Nov 07, 2016

lol here we go again with naive arguments poorly represented.

5 Likes 1 Share

Islam › Islam In The 21st Century [stuck In The Old Ways In A New World] by johnydon22(op): 7:34pm On Nov 07, 2016*

I look back in the long strand of human history, i marvel at how things change in an unprecedented rate and way. Era's starting from the 20 - 21st century saw a remarkable leap in human technology and science, All thanks to seperation of scientific research from religious influence or dogmatic superstitions.

But a look at this New world, there are patches here and there where developments are yet to touch, areas that may be excused due to the fact that fairly enough they recieve little or no external influence or contact which is the bee that polinates development across boundaries.

There are also huge patches, unexcused as they have seen a fair share of this collective human evolution of technological and intellectual reaches chose either deliberately or coercive delusion to maintain an old world deep in the heart of a new thriving world yearning for more development.

[size=20]Islam [/size] has kept it's adherents locked in an era of human history whose practises and norms we should normally consider archaic therefore should be resisted from smearing it's ugly face throughout the face of the globe.

The sharia law in particular is a relic of a primitive past, an era with a moral and ethical expectations greatly different from the ethical and moral expectations of a new evolving society. Not only is it unjust, it spells barbarism, misogynism, forecful expectations of comformity, irrational punishments that are no more moral than the crime itself.

Science

Through out the medieval era the muslim world thrived in terms of intellectuals and scholars of every caliber, science has seen it's own fair share of Arabic influence and direct influence from muslims, all of a sudden there was a sudden change in the intellectual music associated with Islam.

An untold decline in knowledge or pursuit of it and more advocation for simplistic superstitions, mostly idiotic began pravelent in the parts of the world marked by the crescent moon and star.

Northen Nigeria can be a case study, a remarkable very shouty difference in educational reaches across the populace of every region in the country dwarf the northern region with a humongous margin irrespective of nonsensical qouta system adopted by the education system in the country.

High rate of illitracy leading to a certain degree of intellectual decay in these communities.

Muslim's across the world make up to 25% of the world's population, for such a wide population there seem to be very little contribution to the intellectual growth of the world coming from this angle.

Take the Nobel prize as an example, Only 12 out of almost 1.8billion Muslims has ever won the nobel prize, bring the margin down to science it becomes only 3 persons. 1 in Physics and 2 in Chemistry.

It is mind buggling, a sad stroke of bitter reality, an almost unbelievable truth - goes a long way to show the disturbing level of intellectual decay in the muslim world.

The cry for dogma, superstition and personal belief became louder than the thirst to know, to discover and to study.

Falhel Al Sa'ad an Iraqi researcher on astronomy once said in an argument.

"The sun circles the earth because it is smaller than the earth as is evident in the Quranic verses.
Have you ever seen the sun move?, i have seen the sun move it makes one move every 24hours.

What i say is based on the Quranic science, he bases his argument on the kind of science i reject caterogically - the modern science i reject categorically.

This science is a heretic innovation that has no confirmation in the Quran, no verse in the Quran indicates that the earth is round and it moves.

Anything that has no indication in the Quran is false "

I can only sigh to this.

Women

The position of women in Islam is clear and explicit, they are no less than subjugated class ruled and run by the Masculine folks who can acquire up to 4.

The rights accorded to women are so limited in the Muslim world that it totally stands out across the earth, women have no basic right to drive in most muslim countries, to dress as they deem fit or even to vote in many countries.

Their voices are no more than whispers in the dark, bitter, neglected and broken.

This is the mark of a tradition so interwoven in the past that it has refused to evolve, to modify and see women better and freer.

[img]http://ind5.ccio.co/p9/AF/xF/80175b87cc718e8bdb9044e87631f1f3.jpg[/img]

Barbarism

Wife stoning [Penalty for Adultry
honour killings [Penalty for demeaning the family name]
Apostate killing [Penalty for apostacy]
Limb amputations [ Penalty for stealing]

There are thousands of ways by which the islamic ideologies serve barbarism, injustice and clear abhorrable rules as Lawful sentences, the sentence of 9 Nigerian citizens to death in Kano gives credence to this, with millions of other examples scattered all over the globe, all giving subtle insights on how the muslim world has remain chained in a medieval ideology consonant with the evolving world we are in.

https://aranews.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/wpid-img_20150625_081038-849x540-849x540.jpg

Terrorism

Most Muslims are not terrorists but many muslims are terrorists. The rate of Islamic militants in the globe is scary, almost every nation with a reasonable amount of Muslims has seen its fair share of Religious killings, rampages and most times idiotic protests that culminates into full scale terrorism.

Jihad is an antique idea, only should be studied as a topic in antiquity and not practised in the 21st century.

Many will argue that Islam does not breed terrorism, let us represent this clearly.

Muslims are people
Islam is a religion
Islamism is a theoretic political ideology that seeks to govern by sharia law
Jihadist use military force to achieve Islamism worldwide
Jihadi terrorists are Islamists that attack civilians to achieve their goals.
Al Queda, Boko Haram, ISIS are Militant Islamist Jihadi terrorists.

There is no more truer way to put it than this.

Islam and the new world

[img]http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/43fddecd0b89d8ce5c7fcbc06f9c9b45[/img]

One thing has never ceased to baffle me about the Muslim world, sack a whole city to the ground and everyone pretends nothing happened, insult a long dead arab man - billions of people go berserk and call for your head.

It is something my mind has failed to grasp even an iota of rationality from, it is simply idiotic.

Muslims must realize we are in an ever changing world, constantly evolving both in ideologies, ethics, politics, philosophy, intellect and technology, if you cannot move with the world, at least do not try drag the whole world down your own mess.

I have encountered muslims who has always argued that "There will always be muslims, even though i doubt the certainty of this statement as it has been proven that the religions of today always become the history topics of tomorrow, i think the more truer statement should be, " there will always be non-muslims" as well as muslims.

so if we are to coexist for our own betterment and continuity of our kind, they should all better chill out and move along with the modern world.

Burqa

Most people mistake this as a cultural regalia, this is no more than an unjust imposition on women by a perverted male dominated system, a type of clothing aimed at putting on the victims the responsibility of taming the beastiful perversion of the masculine folks.

It is a modern representation of slave-like imposition and should in no way be mistaken as a cultural attire in the societies where these are found.

Women especially in Islam must learn this to be an uncalled burden laid on them, they must resist and fight for their own freedom to choose what and how they like to dress and be respected on that or they will continue to live in silence and pretence which sometimes becomes a mark of complicity.

There must be room for change, room for modification of ideologies consonant with our time, for if we don't change - we never grow.

By Johnydon22..

For the people throwing tantrums below, you lots have been served - What needs saying has been said.

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Christianity Etc › Re: The Coercion Of Forceful Belief As A Means Of Salvation by johnydon22(op): 8:17pm On Nov 04, 2016

Immorttal:
And finally, they didn't really want to die so as to grab that heaven sharp sharp,you,ll notice that the main subject of theirs prayer is for God to prolong their life and remove every premature death . you see comment like "its not my portion".. "back to sender". its either its an advanced self deception or they are trying, trying to deceive us all.

That is the most awkward irony of it all, makes you wonder "Do they really believe what they think they believe?"

1 Like 1 Share

Christianity Etc › Re: The Coercion Of Forceful Belief As A Means Of Salvation by johnydon22(op): 8:15pm On Nov 04, 2016

Immorttal:
One thing i learned in life its that it is rewarding to act above your age,. some things might be normal to us simply because of our age bracket and nothing else,. if you are 50, try to act like 60, when you reach the 60 year mark you,ll realise you,d make mistake if you acted your age then (50). thank you all for ignoring this fellow.

i'm very good at ignoring simple minded folks

2 Likes 1 Share

Christianity Etc › Re: The Coercion Of Forceful Belief As A Means Of Salvation by johnydon22(op): 12:56am On Nov 04, 2016*

Immorttal:
[b]In summary Christianity preaches doomsday and that alone is a threat to the continuity of human race

Yes because it diminishes the value of this world to the mind that bears such idea. it makes them see it as unworthy and broken, see it as a place doomed to be destroyed therefore no care to heal it or make it better.

Just hope to escape to somewhere better afterwards failing to realize that if you are waiting for a better paradise after you are dead, then you are not really living this life, you simply are just waiting to die.

Sacrificing the earth for paradise is like sacrificing substance for shadow..

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Christianity Etc › Re: The Coercion Of Forceful Belief As A Means Of Salvation by johnydon22(op): 1:24pm On Nov 01, 2016

Deicide:
Abi? what would we do if not Glorify the Flying Spaghetti monster may his noodley Appendage guild us

It seems very petty, childish and very weird that something powerful enough to create the cosmos is bothered about Glory from tiny humans living in a tiny planet in a very tiny part of the universe.

If there is a God, theism is an insult to it.

11 Likes 6 Shares

Christianity Etc › Re: The Coercion Of Forceful Belief As A Means Of Salvation by johnydon22(op): 12:58pm On Nov 01, 2016

jiggaz:
John lets be truthful, you are scared about going to hell. lol talk true bro. You are always bothered about Christians. I read so much about Human Psychology, and anything you talk of frequently, though you bash it means that subconsciously you believe that thing is true.

Anyways i don't tell people they are going to Hell Fire, it's not the Gospel of Christ.. lol. I tell people about God's love and the Cross of Jesus Christ. But Hell Fire is real oo and it exists for Satan & His angels... Any human that find himself there is the person's fault for rejecting Eternal life thru Christ Jesus....

You might still repent sef maybe next year.... God can still use you in the kingdom. Never say never.... Have seen so many atheists repent and start following Christ.....

Don't bash me oo.... i come in peace... lol....... Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation and eternal life. This world as we see it is passing away.

Afraid of hell? grin

Chai ayaff die sef.... lmao grin

you keep telling yourself this to make yourself feel good, well you are free to masturbate over any imbecilic thought.

I'm above your pay grade bro, I can't engage you.. now go play with your mates..

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Christianity Etc › Re: The Coercion Of Forceful Belief As A Means Of Salvation by johnydon22(op): 11:49am On Nov 01, 2016

TomHagen:
I don't know why you are insistent on disproving an event you are sure did not happen. Are you having doubts?

Lmao... He just gave you a simple dose of inconsistencies in your little story which was meant to make you do better next time...

Nobody is trying to disprove the story. it is already hogwash and have been destroyed already, they are just revealing the simple inconsistencies so you could learn and read something first before bringing it to a public platform...

Not everyone believes with a simpleton-like mind.... You can beg us to stop though and we would understand cus the peurile tactise up there doesn't work

I sure wouldn't like to be you now..

Christianity Etc › Re: The Coercion Of Forceful Belief As A Means Of Salvation by johnydon22(op): 11:34am On Nov 01, 2016

johnydon22:
Religions always have a way of turning things on their head that you can't help but wonder how they do it.

Just like the OP's question for every religious beliefs they believe that there is no salvation except through their own religion.

Muslims think Christians are going to hell, Christians think same of muslims and others and so it keeps going.

This expressly reveals a salvation criteria that is outrightly unjust yet peddled by these religions as a 'just' position by these their alleged God(s).

Imagine if islam is right, they are 7billion people in this planet and only about 1.8 are muslims. if Islam is right then up to 5.2 are heading to be roasted by God.

if Christianity is right then about 5billion are going to barbecued in an eternal fire by God for his eternal glory.

these gory ideas are wicked, barbaric and disturbing shows these religious doctrines as men conjuring up these disturbing ideas to scare people into conformity.

reveals the basis of religion to be "Fear" no wonder to most theists in this planet God is no more than a divine angry vengeful wrath.

You see you need not know anybody's religion inside out, as long as it involves the concept of wrathful barbaric God who would burn every other person who don't believe same as you do in a literal fire reveals all that one needs to know about you and your religion and the God is professes

This culture of every religion laying out their own "beliefs" as the criteria for attaining salvation in the "here after" reveals in the idea a child of the human mind, derived and peddled by distinct minds in coincide with their aim which is to promote their religion.

In all these fantasies and imaginary salvations and vague "here afters" peddled by religions i rather think it is more noble to focus of what we have and where we are rather than start chasing what we don't have and not even sure of.

Play hard, love hard, work hard.

the bottom line for me is to live life to the fullest in the "Here and Now" instead of chasing after a vague hoped-for "Here after".

And to make ever day count in some meaningful way and do something no matter how small it is to leave the world better than i met it

https://www.nairaland.com/3133542/christian-doctrine-salvation-worlds-religions

Christianity Etc › Re: The Coercion Of Forceful Belief As A Means Of Salvation by johnydon22(op): 11:28am On Nov 01, 2016

TomHagen:
How do people without legs today transport themselves?

They use a wheel chair and they don't stand and wait cus they can't stand...

I am honestly not interested in discussing a story you consider fiction with you.

He's just going a step further to show you that not only that the story is absurd, lacks credibility - it was also poorly done that if you believed it then you must need a brain transplant.

Well i expect no less from people who'd believe a donkey talked, a snake with legs use to talk and was smarter than humans or a man flew a flying horse.

7 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Coercion Of Forceful Belief As A Means Of Salvation by johnydon22(op): 10:53am On Nov 01, 2016

TomHagen:
And we have decided to put our confidence in something greater than us. Something that demands faith.

Exactly, something unreal and unproven that is why you still have need for faith - the day you derive certainty is the day faith becomes unneeded.

Christianity Etc › Re: Halloween by johnydon22(m): 10:44am On Nov 01, 2016

wetin concern us Africans concern halloween, una too like to wan carry wetin concern una for head.

Why do oyibo them not celebrate Iri ji ofu (New yam festival) or mmuo festival...?

If you answer my question above, you'll have answers to your very nonsensical question above

Christianity Etc › Re: Praying Or Decieving Herself? (pic) by johnydon22(m): 10:41am On Nov 01, 2016

both

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Coercion Of Forceful Belief As A Means Of Salvation by johnydon22(op): 10:40am On Nov 01, 2016

TomHagen:
No difference. Believers will accept it and skeptics will scoff as usual.

Because the believers operate within the confines of moron_ic faith, Faith is nonsensical and dishonest, it gives credence to the remarkable gullibility of the simple minded folks.

I'd rather base my confidence in objectivity, reason, logic and empricism than rely on something as idiotic as faith as regards matters of objective concern.

Because faith is a dishonst position, it entails insertion of stoic conviction asserted without reason, believed without reason and must be defended against every reason.

If you need faith in order to believe something then you have no reason to believe it at all.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Coercion Of Forceful Belief As A Means Of Salvation by johnydon22(op): 10:28am On Nov 01, 2016

kevoh:
Marvyx, take a look at the pictures posted by Johnny. What is/are the logical explanation(s) to disprove that this man was finally able to walk? Would you have any reason to look at those pictures a million times over and still dispute that the man was able to walk?

its just pitiable to watch people do this to themselves, its a hard job having to defend these myths and absurd beliefs - Just take a look at the laughable excuses this thread is riddled with.

I have been inactive for a while but lets just say Johny is back to lay some more hate as i use to

More back to back hit is about to drop.

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Christianity Etc › Re: The Coercion Of Forceful Belief As A Means Of Salvation by johnydon22(op): 12:59am On Nov 01, 2016

TomHagen:
...and when millions of people are having the same ''hallucinations''?...
Do not appeal to authority by saying 'religion' please.

Argumentum ad populum - A desperate last gasp that is, a typical expected fallacy.

Millions of people believing the same fantasy and yet not even a single proof. . .

Almost all humans on earth once believed the earth was flat and the sun went around it.

A lie is a lie even if everyone believe it.

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Christianity Etc › Re: The Coercion Of Forceful Belief As A Means Of Salvation by johnydon22(op): 12:48am On Nov 01, 2016

TomHagen:
My experiences suffice as evidence for me.

Good, now the point of it all is that you shouldn't peddle your 'gut feelings' as objective truth to the public because it not only makes you fraudulent but also makes you a liar.

Even mad people in the market believe their experience is enough .. I can think of no bigger madness than believing someone else's hallucinations are real.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Coercion Of Forceful Belief As A Means Of Salvation by johnydon22(op): 12:44am On Nov 01, 2016

TomHagen:
See. You have decided what proof is.

Oga stop prolonging your ordeal, you are done..

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